Back of House

00:00Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City, and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host. Jen Ichikawa is not going to be joining us today. She had a couple of sick kiddos and had a doctor's appointment the time that we had this interview scheduled, so she will definitely be missed, but she will be back and better than ever next week. Today we are talking with Bethany Zach and Zach Mack, and they're with Back of House, and Zach is a host of a podcast called So You Think You Want to Run a Restaurant.

01:02I had the pleasure of being interviewed by him and his co-host, Claudia Sark, and that episode is going to air on August the 3rd, so please go check out their podcast. You get to hear me in a different seat. So Back of House, what they are is they are a website that is kind of like Angie's List, but for restaurant, technology, and cool restaurant stuff, so they're culling everything out there and their tips and technology trends that they're seeing in 2021 is really the topic of conversation today. So this is kind of a Nashville Restaurant Business Radio today, so if you're in the industry, this is an episode you're definitely going to want to listen to because we talk about a lot of different concepts, and towards the end we talk about something that I'm super curious about, just interested about as really just a devil's advocate conversation starter, so listen till the end. This is a long episode.

02:02It's an hour. We talk for an hour, so I hope that you get to get in there and learn something. I am going to be going to something called FS Tech, Food Service Technology. It's going to be in Dallas, Texas on September 14th through the 16th, and I am going to be doing live shows every night while I'm there talking about technology. I'll have guests. I'll be talking to the different companies. It's going to be an amazing, amazing couple days, so stay tuned for that in September. That is going to be coming at you. One of our sponsors, Spot On, is somebody who definitely needs to be in the conversation when talking about restaurant technology because they are one of the first people, they are the first people that directly integrates with Google searches. You can place orders directly through Google if you use Spot On for your POS, and there's so much more than just POS. They also do delivery integration, online to-go's.

03:07One of the things we talk about in this episode really is doing theoreticals and inventory and creating recipes for every single thing that you do to understand what your gross profit dollars are for every single menu item, as well as what your food cost percentage is in a theoretical manner, so those are all really important things. We talk about those, and Spot On offers all of that, and they're really a technology company that has figured out how to make restaurants run really successfully. The cool thing about them is you don't have to buy all of that. If you have a food cost management system that does that for you, they don't charge you for it. You only get charged for what you need, so you need to call Steve Colson, you need to talk to him and have him come out and help you identify exactly what you do need in the form of a new cloud-based POS system for your restaurant. You can check them out at our website, nashvillerestaurantradio.com, where you can, from nashrestaurantradio.com, you can click the Sponsors tab, and you can click Spot On.

04:12It goes directly to a link to Steve's special page. He's got specials for you. He is an amazing, amazing guy. Spot On Technologies. One thing I want to tell you guys real quick is we are doing a brand new episode of Talk and Shift. It's going to be this coming Sunday, August the 1st. I think we're going to be talking German town. We've got some... I'm still working on the guest house. I want to find people that are not necessarily restaurant owners. I want to find people that are bartenders. If you know anybody that you would love to be a co-host, if you want to be on the show, it's as easy as listening from 9 o'clock to 11 o'clock next Sunday. Put the link in there. You can jump on and be on the show. We're looking for fantastic restaurant stories, whatever they may be. Everybody's got them. We want you to share them with us. So next Sunday, that's on Brandon's Book Club, Anthony Bourdain's Kitchen Confidential. You should go read it. Go join Brandon's Book Club on the Facebook group as well as we have an Instagram page.

05:18We're talking about it. This is going to be a really good conversation at the end of the month when we do our Zoom at the end of August. Love to have you there. But now, let's without further ado, let's jump in and talk with Zach and Bethany. Super excited today to welcome in Bethany Zach and Zach Mack to Nashville Restaurant Radio. How you guys doing? Great. Doing great, Brandon. I am so excited to have you. And so let me introduce you to my audience. Bethany Zach is the general manager for Back of House. And Zach Mack is the podcast host for So You Think You Want to Run a Restaurant. Where are you guys in the world today? Physically, I'm in Manhattan. Nice. And Bethany, where are you? I'm in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Nice. Okay. So most of the time on Nashville Restaurant Radio, I talk to local business owners and I kind of get their story.

06:23But sometimes I love to branch out and kind of talk. We have our little bubble here in Nashville, but to branch out and talk to people who are in Manhattan, who are in Grand Rapids, Michigan. But you guys are so firmly fixed inside the restaurant scene that I love just sharing your perspectives because I know that we've got a lot of fun stuff to talk about today. But first, I would love to just give a little bit of background on you guys to kind of let our listeners know who you are, where you come from. And Bethany, let's start with you, if you don't mind. Yeah, sure. I'm going to go way back to like when I was 14, because that's really when I started in this industry. So 14 years old, my first like official job with a paycheck stub was working at a bagel shop. And Zach and I have talked about this, but I worked in a bagel shop. I would go in at four o'clock in the morning. It wasn't legal at that time and would start making bagels. So grew up at a very young age at 14, came up and then worked at a local banquet facility all through my high school years after that.

07:36And then all through college and even post college worked at Starbucks. I just loved working at Starbucks. So I spent eight years of my life. What was it about working at Starbucks that you just loved? I think part of it was the team that I worked with. And then the other part was the customers. Like the place where we worked, it was the first Starbucks on the west side of Michigan. And so it drew in a ton of people. But we were also located in a community where all of our customers that we would see every morning were the same people that we would see every morning. We would see them at night on their way home from work. We would have kids from the high school come over. So we got to know our customers really well. And there's just something about that community aspect that is so great. I mean, walk into a place, love the people that you work with and then love the people that you serve. I don't know if it gets any better than that, really. And so it just it made it fun to go to work.

08:36Yeah. After Starbucks, I really spent the first part of my career in marketing and then transitioned over to what we call business transformation. I joined Gordon Food Service in 2010. So started there in marketing, then got into business transformation, which is really strategy development and working with the senior leadership team on execution of our long range plan. And then from that, got the opportunity to join the Relish Works team and then have been with Relish Works since 2017. And then through that, got the opportunity to lead one of the startups that came out of Relish Works, which is Back of House. And so now I am running a tech startup called Back of House. And it's one of the most interesting, like by far the most interesting thing I've ever done. It's so fun.

09:40It's so challenging. It's so new. It's like playing in the sandbox every single day, working at this company. So it's been a great time. I cannot wait to dig in here. I do want to ask you. So you went to GFS. You're at GFS and then you said they started Relish Works. What is Relish Works and are they affiliated with GFS? How does that work? Yeah, they are. So Relish Works is Gordon Food Services Innovation Hub and what it's located in Chicago. So that office, that whole team is located in Chicago. And they're really focused on helping innovate for the food service industry and prepare for the future. Right. So they we work with Gordon Food Service and some aspects like we help them think about where they need to innovate. We help them with pilots. We can work very closely with them on a number of projects. We are also we have a team of design strategists. Their background is in research, design, implementation.

10:45And so what that part of the Relish Works team is doing is they're looking at these that are happening in the world and bringing them down to what's how do these then impact the food service industry? And through that, they're like we can identify opportunities of where we can make a difference, where we can solve problems for customers, operators, as well as just ensure a sustainable future for both our customers, operators, the industry and Gordon Food Service by trying to work through these problems. And coming out of those, we have startups like Backup House. That was one of our solutants to one of the technology, how we saw technology impacting the food service industry. And we thought Backup House was a way to really get ahead of that. But we have a number of other startups that have also come out of Relish, like Trust 20, Virtual Dining in Chicago, and Ordur that is operating as well.

11:49So we have four right now that are operating and just all trying to tackle different parts of the food service industry. Wow. So you've okay. So for to kind of sum that up, you work for GFS and GFS wants to continue to be proactive in growing through innovation. And they created this company called Relish Works where they just, it's in Chicago, they bring people together and they just brainstorm and they think of the newest innovations and ways to help operators succeed. And they're thinking outside the box, they're throwing stuff against the wall, they're just kind of doing all these different things. And one of the pieces of that was this tech startup company, Backup House, where you're trying to create technology and just different ways or identify where technology is going and then creating technology to help people get there. What a fun thing to do.

12:50I mean, did you just like love it? Yeah, I do. It's you know, it's a lot to learn. Like what we're really trying to do is bring the technology industry for the restaurant industry was it's really fragmented, right? There are over 500 technology solutions aimed at the restaurant industry and there wasn't a central place to learn about all these, let alone just learn about technology in general and how to think about it as part of your business, how to make decisions, how to figure out the right solutions for you, how to build your tech stack. And so we saw that as a big opportunity to help operators learn about it, understand it and make decisions around it. And so, you know, we're creating content, like so you want to run a restaurant podcast as well as writing a lot of original content aimed at helping operators understand.

13:50And then we also have a marketplace side of our platform where we are bringing this fragmented industry all together to really help operators find these different solutions and connect with those vendors. And as we we put this marketplace together, the other thing that we knew was really important for restaurant operators was the fact that they rely on each other to make decisions. They trust each other the most, right? They trust those that are in it on a day to day basis. They trust their peers to help them, you know, share their experiences, tell them what works and what doesn't work. And so on Back of House, we are we want to bring those stories, those voices forward and really allow operators to tell their story and say, like, hey, we recommend this solution. Here's what we love about it. Or here's what you should know about the solution as well to help those other operators really make an informed decision.

14:52So we're trying to create this community around it, as well as how people prepare and elevate their business for the future. I think that is amazing. I love that you guys are doing that, and it's so valuable and needed. And that was such a perfect segue into talking to Zach, because when you're when you run back of the house and you want to get all the you want to get the word out, you're doing all these cool things. You want to continue to interview people and you want to share what you find. So you find a guy like Zach Mack and Claudia, his co-host also, right? Claudia is also in there with you. Yes. Yeah, of course. So Claudia is your co-host on the show. Zach, how did you find yourself as a podcast host? Are you an operator? What's your 90 second elevator speech? So my my experience was I feel very lucky. I was found by back of house through some through some personal connections and they were looking for someone to help host a podcast about being an operator.

15:57They already have Claudia, who works on the innovation side of things. And they asked me if I would be willing to go on. I've been in business in Manhattan for close to a decade. I own a couple of businesses here, a couple of restaurants and bars. And I jumped at the chance because I love podcasting and I think it's a great medium. And fortunately, this is the kind of angle within the industry that I'm most interested in right now, especially after 2020, so much is about to change and which was already changing, but so much is going to go at a much faster pace as a result of the last year. So the fact that we kind of get to talk about this as our as the thrust of the podcast is something that I wanted to get into. So I feel lucky. I feel the exact same way with what I'm doing here. You know, it's like while I'm operating two restaurants, I also get to pick the brain of all the people in my community and kind of go, what do you think about this stuff? Like I while I'm asking the questions to people, I'm also like taking notes. You know, it's such a fantastic outlet. No, I know. I feel weird that I get to do this because honestly, for me, it's as enriching as it is productive.

17:03I get to pick brains of some of the best people in the country on like how they solve problems. And it's usually it's amazing and you know, this is as well as any other restaurateur does. There's probably like a shared set of like two, like 50 problems that we all have and everyone wishes they could figure out. And usually when you're like swapping these war stories, you know, after shifts or things like that, like sometimes the information dribbles through. But none of these there's never really been a resource for people to go to that could definitively be like, OK, I need help with payroll or I'm having a really, really hard time with my POS and I want to switch it up, but I need a way to find out how to do this better because we've all been there in the late of night where I was like, I hate what I have in my situation right now. I need to change it up. I need it. I need a solution. And there just really isn't anything there. I feel like, you know, we're you know, we're a masochistic bunch. I think we put ourselves through a lot, but we also like to help each other out. And so I think the kind of the rest of this podcast really gets at the heart of the restaurant industry. And anyway, at least from my experience, it feels that way. Well, I think it's so important, like technology, we go to we go to FSTech every year and we just bought our tickets at the Gaylord Texan this year.

18:09We're going to be there. And it's a conference where literally there's just tons of tech companies. You get to go and learn. I I find it to be so incredibly vital when it comes to technology and working like in your restaurant. There's so many restaurateurs who are still stuck in the I don't need that. That's I've always done it this way. And I think I read a stat not too long ago that typical restaurants like your national chains are making between 12 and 15 cents on the dollar and independently owned restaurants are making four to five cents on the dollar. And really, it's because the large chains utilize technology to their advantage and it streamlines everything. And they're able to be specific about everything that they do. They're intentional with every single thing they do. And there's a system and a process involved that they put out and it helps you be more streamlined. And I think that's do you run into a lot of people that are resistant to technology? Do you think that's one of the biggest things that is a crutch out there?

19:14Or do you feel like pretty much everybody has recognized that? No, we need back office food cost management systems. And we've got this is where the point where we get into the more discussion. Bring you back in, Bethany. Sorry. Yeah, yeah, I'll give you my opinion. But like you guys are living, breathing it. So I would love to know what you and your you guys are talking about in your community. I think I think you're right, Brandon. Like the the large chains, the regional multi-units are the ones that are investing right now. They are going to be the ones that will set the tone. I think for like if you want to continue to compete, you're going to have to look at technology as a friend and as an ally versus like an enemy or an additional cost and use it to optimize your business versus, you know, like it's it's not don't look at it as a hindrance to your business. That said, yeah, we still do come across operators who are struggling, I would say, to see how it brings value to their business right now.

20:25I you know, like they've done they've been in the industry for 20 plus years and they're like, I've never used technology before. Why do I need it now? And when I talk to some of the stakeholders within GFS that are talking to customers day in and day out all day long, I would say most of their customers have implemented some form of technology at this point. And but there are still stories of them saying, like, I still have customers that have done nothing. He's like, I don't understand, you know, they're like, I don't understand why or what the the resistance is. But that isn't the trend. Like, you know, we're we're doing research and looking at the numbers right now. And we're seeing, you know, over 40 percent of operators are thinking about bringing in more technology or thinking about their tech stacks very differently. But what but they're thinking about technology. And so I think where we are today versus like where we were in 2019, I mean, I think we can all say like we accelerated five years and essentially eight weeks.

21:36Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yes. So, you know, I'm curious, like, what do you guys think in terms of like what you're seeing from your peers? You know, it's funny because I was talking about this the other day with someone and the we were just chatting about what it takes for someone to actually pick up the change, because sometimes like changing your POS or integrating technology into a business that you spend a lot of time with isn't as easy as just saying you want to do it. It's it means changing a system, figuring out what's actually is it worth it for you to do it? For the most part, I usually look at it from the scope of essentially, is this going to be something that I'm getting a lot of value out of it? My first off, is it within my budget? Because so much of this technology may be available to you, but maybe it only does make sense for the larger, the larger chains and the larger businesses. The mom and pops may not have need for all the functionality even of a lot of this stuff. And, you know, it's at a price. It just may be too, too big a scope for a lot of businesses to use. But also the idea of just is this going to make my life easier in the end?

22:36Like, yes, I may solve a problem, but is it easy enough for me to learn? Is it something that I can, you know, my staff is going to be able to pick up if it's something that's like used across the board with with different members of staff? There's a million questions that have to go into play when you pick something like this up. I worked in kind of tech adjacent media before this, and we would always talk about adaptability and what made certain products more likely to be picked up by the general public. And it's funny for the restaurant world, there are so many people, I think, who need technology more than the general public does for a lot of different things. So many specific issues. But the gap has always been so wide between what was available and the majority of operators in the country who may be on the smaller side, who there really didn't exist solutions for them. And I agree with Bethany, the last year has seen such a huge jump over a few months even that I think we're about to see, you know, we're going to be having a very different conversation about this in general, I think, in like a year, maybe even six months. But I think it's going to be really interesting because so much, I think, has been changed. A lot of people have shifted gears.

23:42And I think expertise in terms of who's building these things out and these platforms out has also kind of opened up. So I'm excited to see where it goes. We are going to take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. SuperSource is the answer to your dish machine and chemical needs in your restaurant. We've got zero minimums and zero contracts. So they have to earn your business every single week. Zero minimums. They're not going to make you sign a five year contract, even if you lease the dish machine from them. It's amazing. Jason Ellis is a hardworking man and he is here to help save you money, increase the cleanliness of your dishes and provide the best service in Nashville. So check him out. Go to our website at NashvilleRestaurantRadio.com. Click the Sponsors tab, find the link for SuperSource, and if you sign up there, you will get three free months of dish machine rentals right now. You can also check him out at SuperSource.com or you can call Jason Ellis directly at 770-337-1143.

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26:54That was a great answer for and I feel like this is what you guys are talking about and you're so I think you're so far advanced from where I am. But to me, when when you start talking about it, I think the most important thing is that you have to be proactive. If you're an operator out there and you're just being you're just keeping your head above the water right now, which I think a lot of people are, I think it's important to allocate a certain amount of your time to look for solutions and get do demos and learn what they are, which is why we go to FSTech every year, because I don't know me every time I go there, I go they have all these different speaker forums and you go in and you just I just want to hear what people are doing, because sometimes people are creating solutions to problems you had no idea that you even had. And so that's the side of it that you go, wow, all of this is available to me right now and I had no idea. And that's I think how you get ahead of the game.

27:56And so there's these different layers you can be. One is I was resistant to get a POS in general. I like writing on things by hand. We're not going to place our orders online. We're not going to do this. And now all of a sudden you're doing these. You have all the Averro's and compete restaurant 365. You have these food cost management systems that if you don't have theoreticals done and you're not entering all of your recipes and you don't know if you're not pricing your menu out that way, basic stuff that was 10 years ago. So many people aren't there yet. And so, I mean, I think that there's a side of it that to me, I would if I'm in the tech world, I'm talking to a restaurateur, I'm saying what technology you're using and why. And this is what you could be using. So that's what. I really wanted you guys on today because I got your 2001 tech trends and I just wanted to go over some of the things because 2020 was such an insane year. And we like you said, we went five years and eight weeks. What are you seeing back in everything you're doing?

28:59What are you guys coming up with? What do you see as the trends in your eyes? Yeah, so relish works, as I mentioned, like we have this team of research analysts and specialists that are just incredible at doing this type of work where they can dig into like, what are the things coming at us? And so they did a lot of this research for us and and we're using it now to kind of inform our strategy and how we think about technology and what we're talking about on backup house. But what what was elevated in this report from relish is there's really six trends that we see impacting 2021 and I think in no particular order, you know, we could they're all really interesting and I think that you guys will all resonate with them on some level. You know, what we were looking at is like, what's happening from a customer expectation and then how is that going to shift? And impact how a restaurant operator and business owner thinks about their business and Koba changed a lot of expectations of a lot of consumers.

30:06I mean, I can think about like, everything I did was brought to my doorstep for, I mean, until the day for 18 months, right, my groceries, my clothes, I mean, my children's toy, like we didn't leave the house unless it was a necessity for a really long time. And so we got really accustomed to having everything delivered and then we got really accustomed to having everything delivered very quickly. And so I think that's one thing that I think drastically is going to impact the restaurant industry is the need for that delivery and the speed of delivery. And so third party, I think we all know how important third party platforms were. And then, you know, Brandon, I know one of your operations uses first party delivery, you guys are writing on your own because it protects your margin. And but there's also a lot of things coming into the space because they see there's a lot of opportunities for improvement and the need for speed and delivery.

31:13And this is where we're also starting to see robots enter, right? Like, like we're at that stage where we're now we're seeing like Domino's has, I think, invested in autonomous vehicles for delivery of pizza. Grub Hub has partnered with Yandex, which is a robot that delivers food to college students and college campuses because that's such a huge market. But you can't deliver food to a dorm very easily. And so now they're using robots, using I know they're using them in Ann Arbor at U of M. There's a company called Wings that is a drone that are starting to explore drone delivery. And this field is just going to continue to get bigger for restaurant operators. So I think, you know, the the thing that stands out most to me about speed, convenience and delivery is the operators that embrace the the off premise portion of their business utilizing third party or utilizing curbside services are going to be the ones that are going to continue to grow their business.

32:31You can just serve so many more customers by embracing that part of of the business model. Right. So, you know, what are you guys thinking about from a delivery speed and convenience standpoint? How have you had to really think differently about this for your businesses? We we like anybody else, we had been very strong on to go and delivery pre-pandemic. It was a it was a high priority for us to really get it down and do it really, really well. So we had been focusing on it for a while. So when my my estimates and what I had said in 2019, there was that by 2021, 65 to 70 percent of food that consumers eat will be done outside of your restaurant. That was my initial thought in 2019, because just looking at the technology and looking at Generation Z, who's born with a cell phone in their hand and just kind of what's happening with technology, every single person in this country has has a smartphone and everything you can do just go straight to your phone.

33:40And I think that's where that eight weeks took. We went ahead five years that every single person, even anybody who was resistant to that, now was sitting at their home and a government imposed quarantine that they had to do that. And that just sped it up so fast. So I think a lot of operators right now are taking their foot off the gas pedal as far as to go and delivery and refocusing back on inside the store. We're not. We're still pedal to metal working on to go and delivery. But that you mentioned something and Zach, I want to get your answer on that, too. You mentioned something a second ago, Bethany, you said robots, robots, drones. Do you feel like with this shortage of workers right now across the world that there's going to be new? Do you feel like servers are going to become obsolete? You think the workers that are there with QR codes and all the new technology, do you think that there's going to be a solution for that? That's going to be that's not going to be people. I think anything's possible at this point.

34:44Like, I mean, who thought we would really like I didn't honestly think I'd live to see autonomous vehicles. Right. Like when people first started talking like, oh, that's so far out. And now like it's so close. Things happen so quickly. I don't I don't know about the front of house as much as I think it. I think we'll see it more in the back of the back of house first. But I will say, like when you look at pizza operations, they are utilizing automation for both sides and they tend to, you know, like the pizza industry has embraced technology very quickly. I think Domino's considers itself more of a tech company than like a pizza company. And so I guess, Brandon, my answer is, I don't know, but I do think robots, A.I., automation is a way to augment staff and address the staffing challenge. But we're talking about people, too, and jobs and livelihoods.

35:48And I think there's always going to be people that are going to come to the hospitality industry, maybe not for their entire career, but it is going to be a part of their career. And I so I don't know. I what do you what do you guys think? Do you what's what's your comfort level with it, too? Right. I think I think I think we're all a little freaked out by the Skynet side of all of this. I mean, all the jokes online, we're becoming very reliant on technology that none of us has been alive to see executed. So I think this is, you know, it really is the Wild West. The frontier is really being pushed every day on this stuff. But honestly, I agree with Bethany. There's there's I didn't expect to have this sort of thing come through so early in my life or to have this happen in my lifetime. And here we are. The debate is a very real one. And a lot of it's already in practice. I genuinely think I question the experience of a front of house robot server kind of taking the place of a human fully.

36:54I'm sure certain models will allow for that. But I honestly think I'm curious to see what it would be like to have robots, you know, doing my meal prep, doing things like making my pizza or chopping my tomatoes. If that's like something that is available technology wise down the line that could, you know, save restaurants a lot of time and allow the human element of the restaurant to focus on the things that humans have to focus on. I don't I hope that this doesn't eradicate the kind of jobs and the human element to restaurants that make them what they are. My initial thoughts on this coming out was, you know, people aren't going to want to walk up to something and have that kind of experience where they're not talking to someone when they're not when they're ordering food, they're going to want a human being there. But then I realized that so many people spend time ordering through their phone. It's already done through a screen, even shopping like Amazon, anything we do. So much is done through the absence of human interaction now that I think, especially future generations, will be a lot more comfortable with the idea that they don't actually have to talk to somebody to get what they want. So I think in terms in terms of front of house, when it comes to the robotification of the industry, it'll probably be embraced by other areas like your dominoes first before it's embraced by fine dining.

38:08I'm not sure we're going to have Jeeves the butler robot coming out to bring you your five course meal at a Mission Star restaurant anytime soon. But I'm really curious to see and I also hope it's done ethically and responsibly because this could also, I'm afraid, certain ways that could be exploited. But I honestly think that it could also help to save time, save labor, save money for in the meaningful ways, not just a way to kind of cut out the people that make the industry what it is. Yeah, I completely agree. I'm scared to death of it. I. It's scary. It's an inevitable. It's an inevitable truth. You know, do I want robots to replace people? No, no, we I think there's a human element to dining. There's an experience. There's a service side of that that not only feeds a person who's a guest or a diner, but there's so many people out there who who need that for their soul. People like to serve other people. People have a servant's heart. They need that outlet. They need to be able to do it.

39:10It just scares me because typically technology comes as a necessary solve to a problem. And when you have a bunch of people that have left the industry and there's not people that are willing to work or that can work or whatever the situation is, when you have a labor shortage, like we're having somebody figures out, hey, let's figure out a way to fix that. And right now you've got QR codes that you can put in each position at a table. You got a four top and put a QR code at each position. You can scan it with your phone, place your order and have somebody run it out to your table. And you don't need I mean, you don't that technology is there. And you can have 50 tables and have eight people just running food out to them instead or six people running food out to them instead of having servers with sections. But you lose so much when that happens. There's this technology side that scares me because I don't want it to take over for people. I see it at the grocery store right now, the self-checkout lines. There's 50 people in line to the self-checkout and I'm like, that's somebody who doesn't have a job now because you're checking yourself out.

40:17I always try and go through the line with a person because I'm like, hey, the more the more they see that we need this person here, it just creates work for somebody. And I don't know, it's it's an interesting debate. It is it's you know, I was just thinking about the QR code because I went out for lunch last Friday and we use the QR code to place our order. But what I love about going to a restaurant is asking the staff, like, what's your favorite thing on the menu? What do you recommend? What should I pair with this? Like you lose that element to and like that aspect of community that comes with dining out and even just like people. We need human interaction. We do. So I think it's going to be a really interesting evolution of how automation fits into the hospitality industry in general. I mean, it's just it's almost contradictory in a lot of ways because automation can be so cold. The hospitality is the aims to be the exact opposite of that.

41:25Yeah, I don't know what the learning gap is going to be, because I feel like so many restaurants personally for us are a huge part of our brand identity is expertise. And I really don't know how AI executes something like that. If you come in for an experience and then you're just left to kind of order through a screen, you're not going to get anywhere near the same experience. We you know, we want to be able to kind of make recommendations and give people that kind of experience. The only thing that comes to mind for me that has been regularly in play for, you know, almost, you know, maybe close to a decade now has been the iPads at airports, which I always feel like I mean, we all love, you know, grabbing a drink and some food at the airport before a flight if we've got time to do it. But I've always kind of felt like this that fell so short of what I want when I'm sitting someplace. There's someone standing right there looking at me, place my order as I punch it in. And I still feel like if that were to be executed in more restaurants across the board going forward, I think people would they would feel a little less inclined to go out and they would they would move more of their habits into the house. So I just wonder what the the automate the automation of the industry is going to look like if this forces smaller restaurants to kind of just become more of a delivery experience, if that's what people end up doing. I think there's bigger ramifications and just the labor to it.

42:37I think the experience is going to obviously change, but for different reasons. So again, I'm scared, I'm terrified. Who knows what's going to happen? Well, I think I think there's another this is another trend that we we paid attention to, too. And, you know, we kind of lumped it in with loyalty. But what it essentially like I think when a lot of people hear loyalty, they're like, oh, I get points every time I shop here and then I get a card on my birthday. But loyalty is it's bigger than that. Right. Like loyalty means that restaurants are starting to get to know you. Operators are starting to get to know you through the use of technology. They're able I mean, this all comes down to data. Right. So there are so many programs out there that like from your from email marketing, from reservation management platforms, wisely, you know, like there's companies like wisely, there's companies like seven rooms that are really helping operators learn more about who their customers are and then target them with things that they know their customers care about.

43:44And I think that is one way in which technology can continue to elevate the experience and make you feel hospitable. Like I think something that's like I love this story about seven rooms where they have partnered with Alexa and like they you can they can it's a CRM like table management system and they are able to track you from like if you have a multi unit concept, right, so they can track you from location to location. They start to understand what you buy, what kind of wines you like. And so imagine going into a restaurant and sitting down at a table and be like, I know you like Cabernet's from this region of California. Let me recommend this wine for you. Like what an incredible experience that would be if your waiter knows that about you and is just on top of it. So I think, you know, we talk about automation and robots, it can feel scary.

44:44But then when you think about how the use of technology can also enhance that customer experience, like that is what gets me really excited about how technology is going to influence and shape the dining experience moving forward as well, or just like, hey, there's an event we're going to host an event because we know a lot of our customers love wine pairings and we'll do something just for them and we'll do something special for them. I mean, there's a lot of things you can do with the data that comes through too. How close are we to facial recognition software? Like when I walk into my favorite restaurant and I step and I walk in front of that iPad and they go, we just look right here for me. Oh, hey, welcome, welcome, Mr. Stills, great to see you again. Would you like to sit in Sarah's section? Like you've said in the last four times, she's in the booth over here. You're like, wow. I don't know if that's terrifying or if that's amazing. I mean, we already have that technology, right? I actually haven't heard it explained in such in a hospitality context yet, but I assume for checking in hotels and restaurants, that's actually going to be a huge, a huge win for the for the operators because it saves you the need to having one major D or host in the know who can pull these things out, you know, or having a file on your employee that you have to look up quickly.

46:02So I haven't thought about that. That's a crazy execution idea though. Well, they do Disney. Oh, they do. They have like, if you go to Disney, they have like this thing. It's like a band. It's like a, it's like a bracelet you put on and all your information is on this bracelet. When you walk into the restaurant, the bracelet automatically uploads all your information. You don't have to do anything. It's walk in and they go, hello, Mr. Still, it's great to see you again. Would you, and then they, they, it downloads all your stuff right there and you just go, it's a magic band or whatever they call it. I mean, like you can't actually even, they're even phasing those out now. I think they're actually moving towards facial recognition and phones. The last I read. So that's the next phase, but I'll leave it to Disney to be the ones that innovate this stuff for hospitality. First, they always come up with things. I feel like if Disney does it, the rest will follow suit because as soon as like, so what I just, when I went into the office for like the first time, I have to now have my, my face is what's going to get me in my building.

47:04Um, I think that, I don't know if they're like embedding temperature scanning with this now too, or like, I have no idea, but I mean, it, it makes sense, right? From a security standpoint. Um, and from, uh, because of the pandemic, like none of that surprises me. So I think as people get faced with these things and other parts of their life, they're not going to be uncomfortable with it when they go to a restaurant, right? Like, I mean, think about how will, I give up my personal data to get a coupon, like a drop of a hat, like, oh, 20% off. Yeah, you can. Here's my, yeah. Um, so I think I might, I think the answer Brandon is like sooner than we probably think. Yeah. I think it's great. I love that. We, you know, one of my favorite things, one of the most important things to me. And I refer, I always go back. I am old school. I'm an old school operator, but I really feel like fundamentals are the things that, um, I just get lost.

48:07Sometimes you have all, you have so much information out there. There's so much you can, you can do and you can get lost in the minutia, but I'm like the bounce pass, right? I'm like the full hands in, full hands out, hot food, hot, cold food, cold. Like those are things we can't lose sight of, but the, the aspect of remembering the guests when they come in, no matter who's at the front door, I think is one of the most important technologies that we can have. And most people just don't have, they remember the people cause they come in a lot and their restaurant tours are always there, but there's a side of it that if there's a way to help us, I've worked with seven rooms before. Um, there's a way to help in that process and give us all the information about somebody so you don't have to remember, um, that that's, I think that's going to be amazing. Yeah, I think so too. I think it's, um, it's almost like on your channel for the world, right? Like no matter where you go, like you're, you're known and people can meet you where you are and, um, I think that's, I mean, that's kind of the thought of like internet of things, everything's connected.

49:13Um, and it's, I mean, we're, we're in it now. It's just maybe not quite in this industry, quite in this industry. It's getting there. It's like, yeah. That's my next question is going forward. Like what do you, is there some tech out there that some new crazy idea? What's the, what's the thing that we're going to see in the next six months? What's the innovation that's coming? Yeah, I think, um, there's a, there's a ton. Um, I think one of the things that we, we were paying attention to is like this, um, what we call insta buy. So like if, you know, being able to order from Instagram or Tic Tac, um, directly from your phone. So like getting to, I think it's kind of like this clip colliding of like the virtual world and the ability to buy right away. Um, instantaneously, I think is upon us. Um, like right now on Instagram, you just swipe up, like you're looking at videos, you can swipe up and purchase something.

50:19And so imagine being a restaurant operator, you put a story out there, um, of like, here's us making our special today, swipe up and immediately place your order and come pick it up. Um, I think that's, if it's, if people aren't already doing that and starting to like experiment with that, I think by the end of 2021, you will see leading innovators really tap into that Gen Z market who are on their phone for everything, um, utilizing it in that way. Like what we know about Gen Z is that if they can't shop you, they're not going to use you. I mean, they, they shop for everything. Um, and I'm, I'm a millennial, but I'm like, ah, that's definitely like something that COVID trained me to do even more. Right. So it's not just a Gen Z thing anymore. I think it's something that we are all so accustomed to is, um, using our phone to get what we want immediately. And I think Instagram ads that insta buy aspect, um, is really going to enable it.

51:24And I think the other thing that we're seeing too, kind of in this realm is like Uber eats is highlighting local restaurants. Um, and you can sponsor now on these third party platforms to have your restaurant rise to the top. So there's so many ways in which technology and these companies are enabling, um, restaurant operators to quickly reach their customers even, even faster. Like we thought it was fast and now they're trying to speed it up even more. Right. Um, yeah. So I think that's, that's probably six months out. Um, I have, no, I was going to say like, I have other ideas too, but I want to know what you guys think. No, I talk all the time. What, what, what are your other ideas? I mean, you're, you're the one who's working in technology every day. You're talking to people, same with you, Zach. Like you're interviewing people all the time. You're talking about all these things. I'm like, what we want to learn from you. We are going to take one more quick break to hear a word from our sponsors.

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55:32Follow them at Sharpies Bakery and they will get you taken care of. Again, give Aaron Mosso a call. 615-356-0822. I honestly think we had a really great chat a couple of days ago or a couple of weeks ago now with an operator in Chicago who was talking about how he was very, very quickly able to see the data on what was selling in his restaurant and what wasn't. And I know that's something that my business partners and I have always struggled with. They're like, OK, if this isn't moving, why not? Is it because it's where it's placed on the menu? And he kind of told me how the way that he even admitted he's like more of a business guy from the get-go, but he wasn't really comfortable with data and that the way certain things with e-commerce have helped him kind of realign not only how his menu is built, but how it's displayed, where things go in different sections and things like that. And I honestly think it's a lot of fun, I think, after COVID to talk about these big grand changes like robots, robot cars and these huge seismic shifts to the industry.

56:34But it could be dumb, boring little things that seem kind of insignificant to us that are going to see big changes in the coming months because of what people now have available to them. So I'm talking about the even things that I think to the basic customer won't sound as exciting. But what Bethany was talking about, the fact that they have so much data on you and they can actually really tailor messages actually means that you'll probably get a better experience on the regular with an operator than you would have a year ago or before this data was available. So I think, interestingly, the marketing side of things and the operating side of things could become more informed. And I think in terms of technology, we're probably a few years off on anything seismic. But within the next six months, I already see a lot of my colleagues integrating a lot of these changes that came up through COVID, whether it's marketing or planning events, something that I think is really especially through the summer as we can still go outside and things like that, planning these these off-site events as part of kind of an extension of brands and ghost kitchens, which I think is something that the industry was kind of moving towards before COVID. But now that there is so much empty kitchen space, for better or worse out there, a lot of people are going to be able to kind of pick up and start brands in a way that they wouldn't have been able to in a different kind of environment.

57:50So I think the next six months look a lot like these kinds of like small steps towards like a bigger seismic shift. Wow. OK, I hear that. What do you got? I have a question. As you started talking about that, what do you feel about dynamic pricing? You know what I'm talking about? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, when you mean charging for different prices for delivery and as versus on-site versus. And more so like Uber does. So if you're a restaurant that has a menu board. Oh, yes, yes, yes. If you're doing it all via digital, fluctuating and reducing your prices based upon volume. Honestly, I honestly I haven't I haven't spoken with anyone and I haven't looked into that myself as something I've definitely heard of the concept, but it was something that I was I feel like as opposed to we all hate to get caught in an Uber surge when we're sitting there and we know it's raining out and it's 10 o'clock on a Saturday, but I got to get here and I don't want to be one hundred and fifty bucks to do it.

58:53I would be super bummed just as a concept to discuss that. It's an interesting idea because I understand that when your restaurant's busy, especially when you're running both both on premise and off premise, it can really suck to get like a flood of orders on a rainy night when your dining room's already busy and just kind of gum up the kitchen. But I think it would be really weird to be like, I know I really want this pasta dish and I want it brought to me, but are they really going to charge me thirty five dollars for it instead of twenty? Like, I would I don't know. I think in practice, that's one of those things. If we're just throwing out opinions there, I think I think that's an interesting thing maybe for certain certain businesses that might make sense. But it would be kind of maybe a little alienating. I don't know. Well, I mean, so I mean, I think if you didn't know about it and you walked into a place at seven o'clock on Friday night and you had to pay 20 percent more to get in, I got a table at this place at seven o'clock on Friday night. They're on a two hour wait and I'm going to pay 25 percent more for my food. But I also know that if I go in at four o'clock in the afternoon, I pay 20 percent less.

59:57I mean, I think you're describing happy hour, too. So that's one of those things that to a degree. Yeah, to a degree. I mean, you market the happy hour that you want to market the benefit. You obviously you leave out the no one ever goes like our things get more expensive after seven o'clock. There is like we're cheap between four and seven. Right. So I think that's just kind of a flip on its head. I think what you're describing is also kind of like an industry need for validation of rising prices. And there should be a reason to do that. That doesn't I mean, you can still award people for, you know, coming in a certain time or fluctuating prices, but not everyone's going to eat dinner at five o'clock. If you're charging based on demand of time of day, it could kind of alienate people. I honestly I'm interested to see where this could go. And I got to do more research clearly on this. But I think it is an interesting conversation because I like I think it really does boil down to a need for restaurateurs to validate their their raising of prices as labor prices labor costs and things like that go up.

01:01:03Hey, it's it's so many brought it up to me last year. And as we're talking about what's coming next, it dawned on me we had it. We had one hundred and twenty five dishes go out in 40 minutes this past Sunday or Saturday for a Friday night from like seven fifteen to seven forty five. It was absolutely insane. And I just you get in an Uber after a concert when the hockey game finishes in a concert. There's this perfect storm like one hundred fifty dollars to get home. Like but that's in the what what what is the the reason behind that isn't to gouge you. It's to change consumer behavior as well as for the for Uber. It gets drivers to go to that area, you know, so when there's that many people in one area, it drives people to get there. That can't happen in a restaurant. You can't more servers can't come in at seven and then leave at eight. Like you have to have them there for the entire shift. But it's almost always a it's slow and then it builds up.

01:02:06There's an hour and a half of insanity and then it slows back down. And I'm thinking just what's your ultimate goal is to make every guest repeat guest. Right. But if you could promise excellent service because you were able to stagger the people coming in, because some people are motivated by that, I'm motivated by, hey, I was going to go to dinner at seven. But if I can go to dinner at five thirty and save 20 percent, then I'd rather do that. And then some people are like, I want to be in it. So I want to be in the limelight. I want to be there when it's busy. I want to be there at seven. And I'm willing to pay extra for it. Is there a way to make the general public happy by offering discounts when you eat and to make the restaurant a little bit more money? So it's just it's just an interesting concept brought to me. And I went, wow, I don't have a menu board. I can't change prices that easy. I can't, you know, printed menus, you can't do anything. You're just stuck there. But then you also look at the rising costs of food on a daily basis. And when you have a printed menu that's, you know, they cost you nine hundred dollars to print seven hundred menus or whatever it is that has to last you for two months, you as a restaurateur are kind of stuck. Hey, I just print all these menus and I got to stick with these prices for the next month or two or three or six.

01:03:23I mean, you're just you're at the mercy of your broadliner coming in saying, oh, hey, beef went through the roof. Now you're paying twenty nine dollars a pound for filets, like, but it's on my menu for this price. And I'm like, sorry. Now the now the operators being penalized because they have a printed menu. I think, fortunately, there's a lot of technology from the last year. QR codes and things like that aren't being adopted by fine dining in a lot of restaurants. But I've been surprised in practice to see even as things feel like they're winding down pandemic wise, how many places have still adopted it instead of handing me a printed menu? And I know the ease of that is someone who is a rotating menu at their establishments. It's so much easier to keep that. I think that's one of those concepts that that solved the problem. People didn't realize they had and it's going to kind of stick out for a while. But to get back to the larger question, like, yes, maybe like the idea of changing prices and stuff for restaurants on on the fly is enticing, because I think any restaurateur who knows what they're doing would wish they could charge more during their busiest hours because you're paying for prime experience. But I think that's a tougher sell.

01:04:29It sounds to me if I'm being completely honest, too, that sounds like an idea that a restaurateur would think up that I think a customer would have a hard time climbing onto. But who knows? I've also in the future, like looking at something like Uber, which is more like a public utility in my eyes, they they are seen as something that's a little more necessary, more of a public commodity than it is a service, like a restaurant maybe, which is someone going out for enjoyment. So I think you'd have to weigh out the idea of would the price increase deter sales in general? And like, would you be making more money if you were just crazy busy? Or would people less people show up because you have a 15, 20 percent spike in prices? I don't know. I'm thinking like an economist now, but I think the I think the the actual rollout of something like that is interesting. Now I need to do more research. What do you think, Beth? I don't I don't think it's like this conversation is probably just getting started. I think, you know, Brandon, you hit on something in terms of like, you know, from the from an operator standpoint and something that operators deal with from all their suppliers, like the the supply side of things is at the mercy of the market.

01:05:41So it is a dynamic industry. And I think there's two things that have happened, I think, with covid that have kind of shined a light on pricing, both from an operator side and then also from a consumer side. From an operator side, I think like everybody felt like I remember just having conversations with operators last summer and they were like, man, we operate at such low margins like this is not sustainable moving forward. And so it is going to generate a conversation around pricing, dynamic pricing, how we how we look at our menus differently, how we utilize our assets differently. Right. Like it just shined a light on that in general. And then I think the other thing that is going to influence this is how we recover from an economic standpoint. Like right now, we're in a K-shaped recovery, right? There are a lot of people that weren't really that impacted by the industry that saved a ton of money and are spending it like crazy and would say, like, I would pay a 20% increase if it meant I got to eat at a restaurant at the time I wanted or got the food I want.

01:06:56And they can even wrap their heads around, like, I understand what's happening with inflation and I can I can support this. But then there's a large portion of our population that were drastically impacted by the pandemic economically and aren't going to be able to support it, understand it and dine out if that's the direction. So I think, like I said, I don't think it's the end of this conversation. I think it's the beginning. And my gut says that there will be restaurants that could use that. And there will be types of restaurants that can't because of either like they want to be accessible to a wide range of demographics or just the demographic demographics they currently serve won't respond very well. So I think it's it'll be very interesting to see what happens. But I do think pricing has to be is going to be examined in general. And there's a lot of disruptors coming into the space that are trying to do just that, too.

01:08:00All right. Well, I'll see. That was a fun little curveball to you guys. Good question. Yeah, great question. I don't have a I don't I don't mean one way or the other on that. I just like interesting, thought provoking topics. And really, with everything that we do, you go to the grocery store and prices fluctuate every day based upon commodities and the one place, not the one place, but, you know, one place that you really don't get that is restaurants and everybody else raises and lowers their prices based upon a market and supply and demand. But restaurants are kind of just stuck, you know. Hey, sorry, you get an email from your supplier saying we're out of this or this price is going through the roof. And you're like, what do I do? Do I tell, you know, crab meat right now? What I got crab cakes on my menu that are twelve dollars. But crab meat right now is sixty dollars a pound or whatever. And it's like, do I just eighty six it and tell people, sorry, this is the deal or what if I had the ability to just fluctuate that price with the market based upon a percentage.

01:09:06And when you came in, you just paid market pricing on everything. But how do you do that? I don't know. It's all interesting and relative to to future conversations with technology. That could be a possibility, which we've never had that opportunity before. Yeah, I think so. I think there are also like a lot of other tech vendors that are trying to support this problem just from a different side. So I think there's there are a lot of companies that are trying to tackle like invoice payments and like margin edge is tackling this from like a real time invoice payment processing. So you can really manage your cost and see how things are increasing or decreasing. You have companies like these that are all about menu costs and analysis and helping you build your menu. And so it's optimized because I think the other thing, and you were kind of hitting on this, too, is like there's people are only going to be willing to pay so much for a steak before it's just like, well, then I just won't go get a steak.

01:10:10Like, I won't go to the state house. Like, there's only so much value food has until it's not worth it. Right. So it's I think operators are going to have to deal with pricing. And I think that it's also the back of the house, like it very good about running their books and managing their costs. And you guys were talking about this earlier on and and how important that is, I think, to future success and sustainability. It's it's, you know, utilizing technology to get granular about your business. Intentional. I think that you have all the data. I mean, the number one thing you say, number one thing, but another thing that's so important is just being intentional with everything. I think that the number of operators you could walk into and say, what's your highest margin item? What's the thing you make the most profit on like GP, right? Gross profit. What are you making the most money on? They go, I don't know. The display and you go, what percentage is that and what's your dollar amount you're going to do?

01:11:12What's your gross profit dollar you're taking home? And they'll go, I don't really know. And you having the data to be specific about every single item and knowing the information, I think it's three quarters of the battle because then you can make informed decisions. OK, we could go on. I could talk to you guys for just hours and hours on end because this is this is my wheelhouse. And this is what I end up talking to friends about when we're hanging out for hours on end. And I. I've enjoyed this. I've enjoyed this so much. And I got to be on your podcast, Zach. Yeah, that's right. You just as you did. And so let's cross promote that. When will that episode come out on? So you think you want to run a restaurant? I believe I'm sorry. I believe it's August 3rd. Yes, I was going to say we we've been releasing them at a pretty steady clip. But yours is coming up in just a couple of weeks.

01:12:13So it was a great episode. We had a really good discussion. I love you. You said you bring some really, really great topics to the table, not curveballs so much, but just very interesting points that I feel like a lot of people haven't talked about. And they I'm really glad we got to discuss the stuff we did. So it's a good episode. I've listened to it. So we have a preview this morning. Yeah, Bethany does, too. Yeah, yeah. I it is a great conversation. So for all your listeners, you get to hear Brandon in a different seat. And it's it's really a great insight into you to Brandon, just like your background and learning more about you. So thank you for coming on because it was a really good conversation. And it's my pleasure. I had so much fun talking to you, Zach and Claudia. Let's do some plugs. How do we like how are people out there there? Can I share the two thousand twenty one tech trends that you sent me? Yeah, please do. Yeah, I'm going to share that. Go to Nash Restaurant Radio, any of our socials.

01:13:14And I'm going to share that. I'll also have it on the the the notes, the runners for this podcast. But you can find so you want to run a restaurant podcast where anywhere podcasts are found. Yeah, it's on Spotify. It's on Google. It's on Apple. And then didn't I don't know if it's on Amazon yet. I know Amazon just released like a podcast channel, but I don't think we were published there at this point. Yeah, working on it. Yeah. Yeah, that just got set up. We. Yeah, so please check out that. Please check out Backuphouse.io and, you know, we're here to help. Like that's our entire aim. Everything that we do is really to help operators. And I think that's Brandon. That's why it's such a nice synergy with you is because that's how you are just focused on helping the industry. And so it was so great to chat with you. We just we want to help this industry continue to thrive and evolve and come out of covid stronger.

01:14:15And so Backuphouse, National Restaurant Radio, our podcast is all aimed at doing just that. Yeah, it was a lot of fun talking to you guys and this is great. The other interview. And this was a lot of fun today. We should do this like quarterly be a blast. Oh, yeah. OK, I mean, let's do it. Awesome. Well, guys, thank you so much for joining the show today. One of the things I do and I will offer this to you, Bethany or you, Zach, whoever wants to do it. I finish the show every time and I like to let my guests take us out. Right. So almost in a Jerry's final thought, sort of a way. I exit out and I open the floor to whatever you guys want to say for as long as you want to say it. You're talking to the Nashville restaurant community. The floor is yours. Bethany, I'm leaving this one up to you because I get to do this all the time.

01:15:17And I feel like you've had so much good things to say today. Well, it's been a blast. I think, you know, the thing I would tell our listeners right now is continue to push on fight. You guys have all worked hard to get to where you are and we love you. We support you and and your next adventure. Be bold, like continue to be bold and and shape the industry as leaders. So so thanks for your time. Zach, you want to add anything? I think you just nailed it. Honestly, I'm glad I thank you for giving us such a great platform and such a phenomenal food and restaurant city, in my opinion. Everyone out there knows that this is a crazy time for all of us, but we're all in it together. And it's good to know that good people like Brandon up here steering the ship and in the conversations and ways that will help us all out. So. Yeah. Amen. Thanks, Brandon. Have a wonderful rest of your day. All right, you too. Bye.