Ben Ellsworth

00:00Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City. And welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll and I am your host. Jenny Chikawa is taking this episode off as I talk with Ben Ellsworth. Ben is the founder over at GigPro and he's also celebrating 5.5 years as a sober guy. And as we've been doing, we are telling stories. We are telling stories of sobriety. I started off on January 2nd, I did an episode and then we had, or I told my story.

01:01And then I had Corey Coleman come on last month. And for March, Ben Ellsworth is going to come on and talk about his whole life. Just man, his experiences were kind of amazing. We had so much fun talking and I just want to say thank you to Ben for the vulnerability and the honesty. There's something that's crazy, you know, you get these chips if you go a year. And on this chip, it says, to thine own self be true. And it's interesting because you talk to people in recovery and the ability that people have to talk about crazy shit that they've been through and stuff that they've done is weird. And I feel like you go through some of these conversations and people are like, man, you're just telling people that? But it really, it's this freeing kind of a moment to say that's what it was like. That's what it used to be like. But let me tell you about today. Let me tell you why I don't do that anymore. And some of the things that happened, I feel like you could make a movie out of Ben's life. He's just the most amazing guy came in to do this interview and we just had a blast.

02:05So it's a long one today and they are actually going to be new sponsors of ours, which we are super, super excited about. So stick in it till the end because he does tell the story of GigPro and he talks about why he chose GigPro. And then we kind of talk about a special thing that we're doing for the listeners right now. So GigPro works for both. If you work in restaurants and you're looking for a job, it's a great way thing for you to sign up on. And if you are a business and you're looking for people, maybe to fill a dishwasher position, maybe it's a line cook, maybe it's a server bartender manager, whatever it might be. I think this might be a really good solution to kind of test some people out versus just interviewing people. You can see their resume. You can hire them for a short period of time, test them out, see what you think. And they're going to give you your first one for free. And I'm going to tell you right now, if you don't get to the very end of the show, if you go to go.gigpro.com forward slash n r r b i z, the first gig is going to be on them up to $200.

03:12That's a pretty good deal. That's pretty good. Easy way for you to go check it out and give it a shot. So that's go.gigpro.com forward slash n r r b i z. Don't forget to do the n r r b i z. We'd love to know how many people out there are going to this particular website because of the podcast. That's the fun, you know, data analytic thing that's behind the scenes. We'd love to have to know if you are out there actively looking for a job. Also, we have a sponsor. They're called sitex. They're looking for route men and route men or women, the woman who comes to both my restaurants is amazing. And they're looking for four or five people. So that's a job. I think he said last time he was on the show that route men can make about 60 grand a year. So if you're looking for position and you want to be out and you want to be in restaurants in the back restaurants, learn all the secret ways to get in a bunch of different really cool places, give them a call or check them out. I'm going to call sitex and say, Oh, check out gig, bro, man, they got tons of people over there.

04:22I'll be my next call after this episode. So thank you guys for listening. This is always a, you know, hope you don't get tired of talking about this, but we're talking about recovery here and it's okay. It's okay to talk about recovery. It's okay to talk about, Hey, look, I made some mistakes. We all have, nobody here is perfect. So thanks for listening and enjoy this episode with Ben Ellsworth, super excited today to welcome in Ben Ellsworth, Ben is the founder of Geek Pro and happy to have you here, Ben. Thanks for joining Nashville restaurant radio. Yeah, thanks for having me. So we've been doing this show that there's so I don't even know where to begin with you because there's like four different things I wanted to. One is I want to find out about all of your tattoos because you got a ton of tattoos and I'm obsessed and then you're also the founder of gig pro and I want to learn all about that because I think everybody out there right now, what you are offering and what your technology does helps so many people, but also this is the beginning of the month, it is March and one of the things that we're doing around here is we're talking about recovery.

05:36We're talking about, we're trying to normalize the conversation around alcohol and drug abuse that take the shame out of it and it's part of people's lives and people get over it and you are a sober guy. Sober guy. Sober guy. Yeah. How long do you have under your belt? Five and a half years. Five and a half years. So that was, like I said, we have so much to talk about. Where do you want to begin? You tell me, man. Let's get some backstory on you, like where are you from, like how old are you, what do you got going on? I'll just kind of give me some backstory on you. Yeah. So, 44, I'm from Augusta, Georgia, I was kind of a home of the masters. Yeah, unfortunately, I would always leave town when the masters came, but did you like rent out your house to people? No, no, we never did that, but that's the thing, isn't it? Oh yeah, it's a big thing. I think there's actually a government tax credit that was based around that, that you can rent out your house for 14 days and be tax exempt.

06:40And I think it was because of the masters. But yeah, I was an Army brat as a kid. So I moved around a lot. Augusta was kind of where I landed. I went to high school there. I kind of grew up there. So I kind of call it home. But I was a pretty transient, you know, kid for the first portion of my childhood. When you go to a bunch of different schools, do you is that I think when you're in sales or later in life, like I went to a bunch of different high schools, I moved to Nashville when I was a kid from California, like when you walk into a bunch of different classrooms, you have to introduce yourself that many times, you kind of stop worrying about that, like social anxiety, you just jump in. Do you have any of that? I wouldn't say that. I mean, as far as answered introductions, you know, the teacher would do that, which I remember hating it because I would have much rather have just sat there and done introductions at my own speed.

07:44I kind of felt like whenever I was getting getting grounded, I was kind of getting ripped up and going to another school. Um, so, um, you know, looking back on it now, once you get in the rhythm of that. And everybody's new every couple of years, um, it sets a pretty good springboard to tell people whatever you want, which, uh, I think, you know, nobody wants to be the new guy, um, now, you know, and, uh, I found it as a, a pretty good vehicle for kind of getting what I wanted in the same, you know, aspect. Um, I could tell them whatever, uh, and I, I did, you know, really? Yeah. That's interesting. Well, dishonesty was a huge, huge player in my life. Uh, you know, I had to think in all of our lives to some degree until you realize, like, I gotta be honest with myself and I can't do that.

08:50Yeah. I mean, you know, a lot of people in recovery talk about, uh, leading those different lives and, uh, I had started that at a very early age. Oh, I, you know, I went to five high schools because I would get to the edge of the cliff on like, I'm about to be in trouble, you know, and then I would like figure out some way to talk to my parents and like, Hey, I think I really want to switch to this school because this guy's mean and this and this. And I was like, well, I'm like, I've one foot over the edge. Like I'm about to get in big trouble here. So I'm going to move over here and they let me. And I kind of just created that narrative for myself that, no, I just looking for a new opportunity and this and that, and it just, it worked, but it was all a lie. Yeah. I feel some of the similar things. Yeah. I mean, I had that, you know, the chameleon thing, you know, it's really easy to say, Hey, I come from here. Hey, I love over here. You know, I remember one of, uh, you know, one of my first memories and I kind of share this in my story and recovery, but, um, me and my mom were living in like Augusta, Georgia, inner city, really rundown neighborhood, single mom, um, just siblings, no siblings.

10:06Um, you know, and my babysitter lived in a really good school district. So, you know, my mom was like, look, we're going to be a little dishonest. We're going to use the babysitter's address to get you into this, into this better school system. Um, and I remember her, her saying like, you know, it, it is a lie, but it's going to keep you safe and protected. And, uh, when you hear that as a child, you use it. Yeah. I mean, yeah, and I did, I, you know, I mean, it was a, it was kind of like, Oh, dishonesty keeps you safe and protected. So if I was in these new school environments, you know, like I, it was a really easy way to kind of justify and rationalize and myself, like, okay, you're feeling a little anxious here. Just make yourself sound a little bit better. Wow. That's fascinating. Yeah. That's, I mean, that's figured that figured it out. Then a lot of it, you know, extensive work and myself, but, uh, you know, at the time, I mean, it was, it was just kind of a survival mechanism for me.

11:15I find it so interesting how though, through all this work that we do, and then there's a lot of work that goes into recovery, how easy it is to kind of talk about some of this stuff, to go back on that and like, some people have not figured this stuff out yet. And like the fact that you can just say, yeah, this is, this is where I was. This is what I did. I think it's interesting how, how much you have to open up, how many layers of the onion you have to peel going through all of this that you kind of go, wow, I never quite realized that about myself. And it's fascinating. I mean, once I kind of got to that stage where it was like, okay, it's, it's your behavior and your thinking that's getting you in all this trouble, you know, no matter how big or small it is, like it's you that's kind of, you know, creating this demise in these situations. Um, and if we want to get, if we want to get to the root of the problem, like what set the ball rolling at, you know, I, I think recovery for me is like, how far back am I willing to dig?

12:18Um, and really take a strong look at, and then, you know, ask myself, you've invested a lot of time and a lot of energy and you define yourself in a lot of ways by these behaviors or, you know, security systems is what I call them. You know, the alarms going off. Keep yourself safe, throw out this lie, engage in this bad behavior. But like, you know, are you willing to go all the way back and take a look at it and honestly say, you know, has it ever worked for me? And if it hasn't, why am I still using it? Yeah. Um, you know, and I think that's the, you know, the rebirth, the reborn, the transformation, the upheaval, like how much of my old self am I willing to let go? If you answer that question, I think every time I think I've made a huge progression, I find so much more stuff. And I, you know, I think that's the continuation of the whole thing.

13:19Um, it's, you know, life eb ebbs and flows it's ever changing. I got to keep up with that. Um, you know, the more I try to structure and create my comfort zone and traffic and trap myself, you know, I start to stagnate and that's a, it's a dangerous spot for me is definitely a really dangerous spot for me in active addiction. But, um, you know, it can still be dangerous in sobriety. I've, I've got to keep, you know, I think we're put on this earth is like every thing that's living organism wise, you know, we're, we're put here to grow. Let's go back to, uh, and I, I completely agree with you on that. I kind of feel like every single day, I want to learn, I want to get a little bit better every day. And I've just started reading a book called Atomic Habits. Have you read that by James Clear? I haven't, um, he talks about like just, just being consistent every day, doing something every day.

14:19Even if it's one page, you want to read a book, read one page, just show up and do one page. He goes, but if you do a hundred pages for three days, and then you don't read again, is that the intensity of that? Is it good? But if you do one page every day for the rest of your life, you're going to read a whole bunch of books. Yeah. That's it. I mean, you're going to, you're going to get to 20, 30, 40 books. You're going to learn wisdom. And he goes, but it's every day showing up and doing a little bit more every day. And I just, I don't know, I'm excited to get into more of that book, but for your story, when was the first time you ever like, did you experiment with, was it alcohol? What did you first, when did you get started in your journey of, of using? Yeah, I mean, me classifying myself in it as an alcoholic, you know, it's just because alcohol was the thing that kind of broke the straw on the camel's back. But I mean, I remember the first time that I had a drink, um, I was in seventh grade, my buddy had a basement party, you know, one of those parties where the boys are on one side, the girls are on the other, um, he knew his mom, like a stopwatch and he was like, at eight 30, she's going to be drunk.

15:31She's going to be passed out. We're going to go upstairs. Three of us pour a glass of vodka and we're going to drink it. And so we, we did it. We went upstairs. We snuck away from everyone else. We poured a glass of vodka and I can't remember the size, but it was enough for three seventh graders to take a couple big pulls off of, um, my two friends got drunk. I didn't get drunk. I got a warm and fuzzy feeling, but I didn't get drunk. And I remember acting drunk because I didn't, I didn't want to be the one that was like left out. Um, so I mean that warm and fuzzy, whatever that was, you know, it spiked my curiosity enough to, to try to find alcohol again. And the second time me and my buddy had, Hey, Mr. Some big 45 ounce Colt 45s from, uh, Big H super store.

16:33And we went behind the store and we drank him in the woods. And once again, he got drunk, sick as a dog and I got the warm and fuzzies again. Um, and so in my mind, it registered like alcohol doesn't work. Um, so I went and found pot, um, and the first time I smoked pot, I got really uncomfortably high, um, but that was it. It was like, Whoa, this has changed the entire way I see, feel, smell, taste, touch the planet. Um, and so I started chasing it. You know, I, from that, you know, beginning of eighth grade until, uh, end of 11th grade year, I was a pot and hallucinogens kind of guy. Yeah, me too. I was into, and that's all I did. Um, but it was that, that made you, you know, through all those changes and all those lies and all the things that you may feel about yourself.

17:40When you got high, you felt good. That was the escape, right? Yeah. I mean, I would say that like my first spiritual awakenings were on a whole bunch of LSD. I mean, I loved hallucinogens, you know? I mean, those were, if I could find those, I had them, um, you know, looking back on it, it's the only drug that I ever stopped. It, it got to a point where it was like, okay, you know, I'm going to have a bad trip every time I had. I, I loved it. I, I loved all the hallucinogens. I just, just chill. I love mushrooms. Mushrooms was my jam, but I can never find them. And then I just said, I'm not, I'm not even going to, no, not going to be a thing, but I can never, I never could get them, but when I did get them, it was like Christmas. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, they, they worked for me until like the responsibilities of life started adding up. And then, you know, I just get anxious and nothing's worse than like, anxiously tripping.

18:48Truer statement has ever been uttered on this show. Better than anxiously tripping. Um, but like end of seventh grade, I'd kind of seen this decline. I think I had like enough sense about myself, you know, that I was kind of going down the wrong path. Um, and so I was going to buckle down 12th grade year. Um, and I did, uh, didn't smoke, do drugs, drink anything. Um, until like that summer, I joined a punk rock band as a singer and they were older guys and they all drank the beast Milwaukee's best and I mean, crushing cases. And that's when I got drunk and that's when finally achieved it. Yeah. You know, um, that's when I was like, Whoa, here it is. And I think that experience was actually a bottle of orange jubilee, mad dog, 2020 in the back of an Econo line van after a show.

19:59And I had thrown up all over myself and I was just smiling ear to ear going, this is, this is, this is what success looks like. I've made it. Here we go. Yeah. Yeah. I, I look, you know, so funny how you can go back to those memories and they're so vivid, you know, and I, to this day, I feel like this massive regret and I feel shame and all these things about, you know, hanging out with my brother at Western Kentucky and me getting way too drunk and throwing up on his bed or something, you know, that's just like, and I just cringe and I go, I thought that was funny and I thought that's just what you did. But I look back on it now and I'm like, I really pissed him off. And I, you know, you just, I don't know, it's so vivid the memories, but then you think about them as an adult and being sober for a little while and you go, God, that's just, I can't believe I did those things. Yeah. Crazy to me. I mean the, you know, I had kind of inserted myself into that, um, punk rock lifestyle.

21:04And I mean, it was just like, you know, if, if you weren't drinking and using massive amount of drugs, like something was really wrong with you. Um, so, I mean, it had that, you know, born to lose mentality. Everybody had a 13 tattooed on there, you know, live fast, die young, live fast diarrhea, which is another, another one. Uh, but it was kind of like, you know, we're the outcast, we're here to fail. Um, and we accept it. And, um, so at the time, like when things really started kind of getting out of control during those stages, it was normal. Um, it was almost glorified and all my friends were encouraged alcoholics and addicts and, um, you know, it was just kind of what we did. It was a badge of honor. Um, fast forward to, you know, I think I was 19 years old. I was growing a large amount of pot in my apartment.

22:07I was a fry cook at a comedy house theater. Um, I was dabbling and in drug sales. And, uh, while I would be at work, I would give a bag of pot to a friend to sell drugs out of my house while I wasn't there. Um, and I came home from work one evening and there was about five cop cars in my driveway and I thought for a split second, like, get out of here, run. And then I was like, they're in your house. Um, they're going to find you the, uh, I knew that I didn't have a lot, if any inventory in there, if it was a good day. Um, and I didn't, but they ripped my house apart and confiscated a lot of money and, um, confiscated a lot of lights and things of that nature. And, um, at 2 AM, the chief of police was in my apartment. It was like, Mr. Ellsworth, you need to get the hell out of Augusta, Georgia.

23:10And I called my mom up the next day and I was like, um, you know, I need to get the hell out of Augusta, Georgia. I think it's time for a change. And, uh, she was like, what do you want to do? And the only thing that I had going for me at that time was that shitty fry cook job, you know, but I, I enjoyed it. I mean, I love the energy of it. The kitchen was just, you know, a, a pirate ship and, uh, it was the only thing that I could pull up, you know? So I was like, I like to cook, um, a couple of days later, she was like, there's a culinary school down in Charleston, South Carolina called Johnson and Wales. Um, you can do this as a career. And I would love to say that like, you know, I came into this industry, super passionate and I wanted to be, you know, whoever the chef was, Charlie Trotter at that time, uh, but that wasn't the case, you know, she said, you can make a living doing this. And I was like, you can make a living partying, you know?

24:12And so I, I went down to Johnson and Wales and Charleston. That's the first place I ever, you know, put on a chef whites and checks. Um, and, uh, it took me a long time to get a job down there, which was, you know, weird to hear now, but the only thing I could put on my resume was the shitty fry cook job, uh, stocks and sauces, American regional cuisine, like whatever courses I was in, it took me like eight months to get a job. Well, what was it like going through Johnson and Wales? Um, are you still partying pretty heavy throughout that time? I think I was trying to buckle down again. I had just gotten out of this weird consequence, you know? So, I mean, I've always, you know, it always ebbed and flowed for me and active addiction. It was like, you know, I'd get to this place where it was like, man, the wheels are about to fall off. Like we need to pull everything together for a bit, flying straight, you know? Yeah. And, uh, and then I'd hit that, you know, level of comfort again.

25:14Like I'd fall into that routine. I'd be like, okay, you know, I'm not, I'm not having to focus a lot. I'm, uh, I'm in it. I'm doing it. Okay. Now we can start taking on, you know, a couple of drinks. We can start dabbling again. Um, you know, and that's what I did. Uh, I hated Charleston when I moved there, um, for, you know, this young punk croc kid, Charleston was like going to a grateful dead concert, you know? And I just, I hated it. Like garbage hippie music was blaring out of, you know, every bar down there. There's lots of Dave Matthews and everybody was wearing those, you know, fucking dresses and I just hated it. So, um, you know, I would go to culinary school 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. Monday through Thursday. And the second I got out of culinary school, I'd haul last back up to Augusta about two hours away. And what I started noticing that was happening was like, I wasn't doing a lot, you know, still under 21.

26:15Um, I wasn't really going out to find the booze cause I was in this new city. I wasn't drinking while I was going to school. I blazed back up to Augusta where I knew everybody and I knew where to get what I wanted. And I was, I started getting arrested every Friday night and I would, I would get drunk and disorderly. I'd get open container. I'd get, you know, public intoxication. I mean, you name it. It was, I would just, I would, I would get so unbelievably drunk on Friday night and I'd get arrested and then I wouldn't post bond until Monday morning. And so I'd always be flying back down to Charleston late for class. And it, it just, it kept happening over and over and over again. And I, it didn't even register, you know, the only thing that registered was like, you need to stop going back to Augusta. That was that, that was the problem. The fact that you were going back to Augusta had nothing to do with all these people that are arresting you or like, you know, kids, you went to high school with, I mean, they hated you back then.

27:20Like, you know, they're just waiting on you. Um, you know, completely oblivious to the fact that my fucking car looked like, you know, it had checkerboard and bumpers. I mean, it was an eyesore. You know, if I crossed the lane, I mean, they were on me, but, um, none of that registered, you know, it was just, you know, they're watching me, they're, they're waiting, uh, which it's not my fault. It's their, they're, they're the ones who have to get me. I'm not doing anything wrong here. Exactly. Um, but, uh, you know, I ended up stop, you know, stopping making the weekend trips to Augusta. It's a bad thing. I don't need to go back there. Um, and then turning 21 in Charleston and getting a job and getting infused into the food and beverage community there. And, uh, that was late nineties, 98, you know, 2000. And at that point in time, the industry ran off cocaine.

28:21Really? Oh yeah. I mean, it was, how old are you? 44. Okay. I'm 42. So we're probably around that same timeframe going to kind of getting into our careers. Yeah. And early twenties jump in there and every day was kind of a party. I loved it. That wasn't, I mean, that was, I looked forward to getting off work. I looked, I thought going to work was the funnest thing I could do. I loved going to work, hanging out with those people and figuring out once it started to slow down where we were going to go, what we were going to do and the party after work. That was all part of lifestyle. Yeah. I mean, you know, I, the first job I got was at a little Italian spot, two man line, turn and burn 86 seats. We had flipped that dining room five times. It was everything that I liked about the comedy house. You know, the energy. It was chaos. It was fast.

29:22It was quick. It was just like one step above and, and cuisine, you know? So I was getting a little food knowledge on a rebel, but mainly I was turning into like a line beast that could handle a lot of volume and a lot of pans. Um, you know, and you, there was a level of pride of what we were doing, but you know, it, it definitely wasn't, uh, you know, colonarily advanced by any means. Sure. And then in 2000, a restaurant, uh, called 39 Rudy John opened and it was a French brasserie and it opened up like on this side of town, like people didn't really go to, which is on the peninsula and it just became the hottest spot. Um, and the chef there, um, Fred Neuvel, he was the first chef that kind of sat me down and was like, listen, man, what we're doing here is so much more than like the skills we learn, um, showing up to work, cooking fast, like we're creating experiences for people.

30:32Like this is their wedding anniversaries. This is their, you know, graduation parties. This is the stuff that they're going to remember for the rest of their lives. And that's why everything that you put out should be perfect. And so when I came into the industry, like, you know, what I found was kind of, you know, for this army brat moving around, uh, you know, single mom, you know, I found this family and, and food and beverage, you know, this band of pirates. Um, and then when he told me that, like, Whoa, purpose. Yeah. You know, like, um, you know, how many people can say that they do this for a job, they create like timeless memories for people. I do that speech. I know that speech really well. Cause at one of our restaurants, uh, Maribor, we have so many people do rehearsal dinners and I say my favorite moment in the job is when I'm standing on the outside of this room and I'm watching a server do the whole spiel about, and the house was built and it's an old house in 1942 and the history of the house, and then they make a comment.

31:43They'll say something like, and now we're going to go over the menu and sir, you're going to want to pay attention to this because this is the last decision you'll ever get to make by yourself. And there's these little jokes that, but I look at the bride and groom and they're laughing and she's laughing and the, you look at the guy's parents and the dad's like nodding and I'm like, yep, that's true, son, you know, but like there's this moment and you go, these people are going to remember this moment for the rest of their lives, the rest of their lives. They're going to remember this moment right now and they trust us with that. And so the level of responsibility that we have to bring it home is huge. And I love that moment. I think it's my favorite moment in the restaurant. The, um, I spent eight years in one restaurant and, um, we had a couple of two top that came in and they sat by the window. Um, he asked her to marry him there. They came back for their wedding anniversary for four years. Um, on the fifth year, he showed up by himself, sat at the same table.

32:46And then the year after that, he showed up with someone different. Oh, wow. Um, but you know, that's kind of like the, you know, the impact of it. I mean that, that table, that seat is never going to be forgotten by that guy. You know, however he's holding it to him. Well, except for the restaurants, not there anymore, but isn't that one of those things, I think working in a restaurant is that level of access, you know? I mean, I'm just, I was just a server, just this and this, but I was waiting on celebrities in Tennessee and I kind of felt like in the moment, like, Hey, I'm part of this group that gets to be part, I get to see celebrities all the time and I'm, I'm part of the end crowd of when these big events are happening. And I'm part of it just a little bit. Like, doesn't there's like some level of access that is sexy? I don't know. Um, yeah, I mean, yeah, I've had my fair share of celebrities that, that eat in there, I, I would usually, you know, scream at the staff because everyone's good Googling over them.

33:51And I'm like, don't forget about everyone else. Uh, everyone else is paying too, is what I used to say, but, um, I don't, that never, you know, I don't know if it's like my early punk days, but I never really gave a shit about, you know, the, it was kind of like, you know, the status quos the enemy, but, uh, I never, you know, I never really got starstruck over anyone except for Bill Murray. Um, yeah, I would, I would totally. And, and we see him, he pops up quite a bit in Charleston, but, uh, you know, I think, um, you know, who can't be a little star truck for sure. So when, when did you get into leadership? What was the thing you, so you had that conversation with that chef just, and you kind of had, you said you, you were part of the pirate ship. It was this band of people that accepted you for who you are. You don't have to be somebody else. You could be you party, do the things. Then this guy said, Hey, look, this is a special moment. And it brought meaning to what you were doing, which I'm assuming next elevated your level of intensity, passion, purpose.

34:58And then where did that take you? Yeah. I mean, once I put kind of the, the family and the purpose aspect together, I was all in, um, and so I excelled quickly. I mean, you know, I ripped through every station on the line. I started becoming a shift leader. Then I turned into sous chef, then CDC, then executive chef, you know? So I'm the 20, you know, five years that I was in the industry. I was a grunt for 14. And then I was, you know, running kitchens for the last 10. What was that like running kitchens coming from that? I mean, just hearing your entire history. Now you're the boss. Um, it's intense. Is it easier? Is it, is it like everybody says they just sit around there in the office all day? That's bullshit. I don't know who says that, but they've never run a kitchen before.

35:59Um, it's a, it's a beast, you know, it's, um, because you don't have just one set of me's to worry about anymore. One station, if the guy beside you doesn't show up, you can't just say, that's not my fucking problem. I'm on saute. Um, you don't have to deal like with everyone's attitudes individually. You can turn it off. You don't have to push anybody. I mean, you can, and I think everybody pushes themselves to some degree, but, um, you know, running a kitchen, you gotta know what motivates everybody on your team. Um, that's a lot. That's a lot of work. Um, it is. It's a ton of work cause you have to get to know every single individual person and you can't just manage the entire team as one blanket team. Like each individual person needs to be led in a different way. Yes. And, uh, and then you have to make it like completely cohesive for the whole, you know, that's tricky.

37:02I mean, that's a full time job in itself and we haven't even gotten to the food yet. Yeah. Um, but, uh, you know, I don't know. I, I enjoyed it. I mean, it was, it was super stressful. The hours are really long and really hard and you're working, you know, a minimum of 60 hours a week and a maximum of there is no max you're on call. All the time. Um, there's no great time to take a vacation. Uh, so I think that's a fundamental flaw and that's a fundamental flaw in this industry because I think when people say that this industry is ripe with, with mental health issues and drug abuse, like, yeah, when you work 90 hours a week and you don't get me time or you don't get an actual, Hey, I'm taking the weekend off or two days off and I'm not going to be bothered because my phone rings every day all day and there's not a lot of time.

38:03And when you're under that level of pressure, because I got to have food out at 11 AM and I got to have specials ready at six and then this person didn't show up and like, it's just a massive amount of pressure. I don't know, I'd love to figure out a way to change that culture somehow, change the culture to where like, we have people that can handle it. If you're not there, you need to take a little bit of time. Sanity is a very important. I don't think we do enough. Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the pressure was so great for me that I had to escape it. Yeah. Um, you know, I had to shut it down completely. And I think, you know, I mean, I would, when, when I started gig pro, um, I knew I was like onto something in that idea phase, but I knew you're not going to be able to take this thing to fruition by working 60 to 80 hours a week, you know? So for the first time in my life, I got a corporate job and I was running a cafeteria, um, for the state department in Charleston, South Carolina, and my hours were Monday through Friday from 5 AM to 1 PM.

39:21Um, and I remember, you know, I did that to give me extra hours to do the side project that I had going, um, but I used to beat myself up for like clocking out at a 40 hour work week and that's fucked up. Yeah. Like I felt guilty because I was working a normal schedule. And then I had this ego thing popping off, which was every day I showed up. I was sitting here going, you're a fucking glorified lunch lady. Like, yeah, you're running, you're running a fucking cafeteria. What are you doing? And I was, you know, I was one year sober at this point. Um, but, and you're like, well, this is what everybody says when I get sober, I can't have fun. I guess. Yeah. I mean, it was me like starting to let go of all the bullshit. That I heard that you had to do and you had to be, to be a chef.

40:27You know, I remember, you know, at that government job, I had every benefit under the sun. I had health, dental vision, all a hundred percent paid for. I had 14 sick days. I had, I mean, you, Nate, you know, I was, I was leaving work when most people were coming in or waking up. Yeah. Um, and I was hating myself for it. And then, uh, July 4th, I was off because it's a federal holiday. I was getting paid and I was taking, I had my kids on top of a parking garage. And I can't remember. I couldn't tell you the last July 4th I had off and forever, you know? And I sat there and this one firework burst and something popped in my brain. And it was like, what are you protecting? You're here with your children. You're off. You're getting paid.

41:27It's July 4th and like, you're fighting yourself on this. And that was a really big moment for me. And I think like, showed me like, you know, I think I got a little PTSD. A hundred percent man, 25 years in the industry, you know, and, and just being like, you know, make it happen, make it happen, make it happen, make it happen. You're going to make it happen until you can't make it happen. And then we're going to take you out to the pasture and shoot you because you're expendable. And I just, you know, we sold vinaigrette as smoke and mirrors forever until the customer was like, you're not selling me on that shit. It's oil and vinegar, but we did the same thing, you know, to us. I mean, it was like, I don't know what the hell I was chasing fame, fortune.

42:30You ain't going to find it. You know, I mean the, it's out there and it exists, but it, it's slim to none, you know, and, uh, and legacy, you know, what's your legacy? I don't know how many times, you know, and I heard that and was told that, like think about your legacy, think about, you know, and like my legacy was killing me. You know, I was chasing just to be good enough. Just to be good enough. I was chasing this thing that I was told my whole life that I wasn't as good as my older brother and I wasn't as good as my younger sister and I was this middle child and why couldn't you be all of these other things and you're not this and you're not that. And then finally I found something that fuck, I work real hard. I will work every day doubles every day all day. I'll make more money than everybody. I will create the best experiences. I will lead. I will do all this stuff.

43:31Why I wasn't necessarily, it wasn't money. I was chasing validation. I was chasing somebody telling me, Hey man, you're really good at this. And this, this that I'm good enough. And it was just, it took me a long time to figure that out and took me even. I'm still not even there, but just as a, Hey man, it's okay. Like you, you don't have to do all of that. Like you're a human being and you don't know human beings should have to do that. And that's a, that's something a lot of people in the industry, we just do. We just work our asses off all the time. And it's, I don't know. I don't, I don't think it's, it's not healthy. It leads to a lot of negative things. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what I was chasing. I was chasing, you know, the, the image of what the, you know, Superman chef does. And I don't, I don't know if that's, you know, if it exists. Are you an Anthony Bourdain fan?

44:34Yeah, I am. I mean, you know, my era, I mean, it was everybody had read that book. Everybody was blazing into this industry and the thousands wanting to be a chef. It, it was a great motivator, you know, it painted the picture of a very. You felt seen. Yeah. You felt like, Hey, there's a guy now that's basically documented what every one of us is going through every day. And he put the real story out there. No bullshit. Like this is, this is what really happened. And it was kind of like, yeah, there are, there are a lot of people out there and it was kind of like, yeah, there it is. Somebody finally fucking said it. Yeah. And I don't know if it's good or bad, but, um, tragedy. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think it, you know, kitchen confidentials for me, when I read it, it glorified it, it was like, it was like, Hey, you're, you're on the right path, you're doing the right thing.

45:41You know, like it, it made me feel like I was like you're. You're going in the right direction. Which is so funny. Cause he said after the book, like I didn't write that as like a glorifying thing. I wrote that as a what not to do. Yeah. Like, Hey, I did this and I'm, he was, I'm an addict and I'm, I got out of it. Like I get out of the restaurant. I was one of the people who made it. I didn't die. And a lot of people do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it happens a lot. Yeah. I mean, I've had, I've been to a lot of funerals. Yeah. They're tough. Way too, way too much for their time. So for you, when did you, when did you realize, did you have the spiritual moment? Did you have this massive awakening? Was it that moment on 4th of July that when did you stop using completely and decided that I'm not going to do this again, five and a half years ago? Um, so I'd, I'd been bottoming out for a while. Um, my daughter's mom had asked me to move out, um, and that was 2014 and I was, I thought that I was there, you know, um, I was moving out with like zero furniture and the shitty apartment.

46:58Um, I was way overweight. I was pushing like 300 pounds. I was drinking like a fish. I was using like a fish. Um, and then this emotional thing hit me, you know, you failed as a father again. I've got two, two children, same exact scenario. You know, you got to get the hell out of here. Um, I called up one guy that I knew, um, in recovery one, um, and he took me to a meeting and I remember like he picked me up at 6 30 in the morning. It was a 7 AM meeting. Um, and I got like struck with fear and I was like, is it a cult? Like, are they going to take me to church? And he got really irritated and he was like, he was like, Ben, you're going to hear the word God, but it's not a cult and it's not a church.

48:01And I felt better. And then we showed up in the meeting and they said, they opened with a serenity prayer. And the first word I heard was God. And I was like, God, grant me, God, damn it is what I said. And, and I knew like right after that word finished, this ain't it. Um, I finished the meeting. I picked up a white chip to make my buddy happy and I was drinking that night. Um, shortly after that, I mean, at this point I was like a, you know, a 12 pack of PBR six to eight shot kind of guy. Wow. Uh, that's healthy. Yeah. And then, um, you know, eating taco bell after last call every night, completely unhealthy and, uh, I was sitting at the bar that I used to go to before, you know, me and my baby mama got together. Um, and this guy was in there, his nickname was heavy.

49:02He was a big dude. He was about six, three. He was about 300 pounds and he dropped all this weight. And I remember asking somebody, I was like, does heavy have cancer? You know, and they're like, no, uh, he went through this, you know, this weight loss program with the medical college. You should ask him about it. Fat ass. And so I did. And he was like, Ben, like I can get you in. I'm the biggest loser of all time. It's really hard to get into. Um, but I can get you in, but you can't drink anything caloric for 10 weeks. And I was like, okay. And he was like, that means no alcohol. And I was like, okay, but like something happened. It was like, oh, here's why you're miserable. Here's why all this bad stuff's happening to you because you're pushing 300 pounds, dude, you're overweight. Yeah. So I went through the workout program. I didn't drink for 10 weeks. Um, I didn't do anything for 10 weeks. I lost 52 pounds. I came out of that thing, probably in the best shape of my life.

50:03And, uh, you work with a dietitian. I couldn't eat out, you know, uh, you have to log everything, um, eat exactly what they tell you. And, uh, so I won this thing. I lost 52 pounds. I can't remember the body weight percentage a ton. Um, and around eight and nine weeks, I was like, okay, we need to start doing some research on what you can drink because in two weeks you're going to be able to drink. So I Googled what has the least amount of calories shots of vodka vodka and mezcal I've done that same research by the way. And so, um, the, uh, you know, I go pick up my award. Monero had opened up in Charleston at that time. Uh, I really wanted to go eat there. I went into Monero, uh, ordered every taco on the menu and right behind this bartender is a wall of bottles.

51:05And I was like, what is that? And he was like, it's mezcal. I was like, that's great. What are the chances that that, that is amazing. You know, whether I line that up subconsciously, I have no idea. Um, but I drank a fifth of mezcal, um, and my tab was like $270. And then I was so confused over how I hadn't had a drink for 10 weeks. And I drank a fifth of mezcal and I was so confused that I had to go to the dive bar by my house and have a vodka soda to think about it naturally. And then it started happening. I started getting in these arguments with bartenders that have been serving me for years on my vodka diet with 16, 18, double vodka sodas. And I would be like, how did I go from 20 drinks to like in my thirties, you know, and so I started getting into these, Hey, you're ripping me off your, your, your, your spute.

52:14And they're like, Ben, we've been serving you for years. Like we, we're not going to rip you off. Um, and so at that time, you know, again, instead of saying like, maybe you got a serious alcohol problem here, the only thing I could think of was like, you can't afford to drink the amount that you drink in a bar. And so for the first time I stopped at a red dot store and man, I truly believe I walked in like a heavy drinker and I grabbed that bottle and I came out the real alcoholic, I mean, once I brought that bottle home, it just, it spiraled out of control immediately. I remember like logically saying to myself, like whenever you're drinking, like Nick cage from leaving Las Vegas, you're going to stop, you're going to get help, but by the time I had gotten there, it was too late. I mean, drinking around the clock, drinking to get food down, drinking to like, go out and socialize and do something normal, which equaled sitting at the end of the bar alone, drinking vodka soda until I'd black out, you know, blackouts became very different.

53:30It wasn't, you know, waking up in the morning going, what the hell did I do last night? It was waking up in mid sentence going, where the hell am I? Hmm. Um, you know, which I think has the same mental effects as time travel. You know, I mean, it was just completely disorienting. Um, I knew I was lost. I knew I was in so much trouble. I knew it was way, way out of control, but I had no idea what to do about it. And they didn't even cross my mind. Um, and then my best friend, one day like shows up with John this and we rushed them to the hospital and his liver had started to fail. Um, and it was alcohol related. And so for two weeks, my buddy's in the hospital. He's dying in alcoholic death. He's not making a lot of sense, but like there are two visits to the hospital where he wasn't just completely lucid.

54:38You know, the first one was I asked him, I was like, Hey man, what's going on? Like, you know, did you start doing hard stuff? And he was like, no, I just quit drinking beer. And I remember going, Oh my God, you know, I quit drinking beer. I quit drinking beer. Um, and then the last one he'd, you know, his liver shut down. Then it started back up. Then his kidneys shut down. Then it started back up. Then they were like, you know, he's still critical, but it's, it's starting to look good. And I remember going in and I'm like, man, you got this, you know, I knew this couldn't take you out, you know? And he was like, I'm, when I get out of here, I'm going up the Asheville to a 90 day recovery program. When I come back, I want me and you to go to AA. And I was like, fuck yeah. Awesome. And I left and I was motivated and I was happy. And I went straight to the bar because in 90 days, me and my buddy, you're going to start getting sober.

55:41Yeah. You got to get it after for 90 days. And then about two hours later, his mom called and she said, do you need to get here? They're about to pull the plug. Oh, wow. And I sat there and I finished my drink. Um, and I showed up to the hospital and like the, the one person that she knew the most me because we had lived together multiple times. Um, I couldn't handle it. You know, everybody else is like, where do we take mom to get her out of here? And I just ghosted and I went back to that bar for three days. Um, and I was very clear. You're going to drink yourself to death sitting there drinking. And I could not drink enough to get that clear image out of my head. Like you're going to, you're going to die. And I knew it because I had just watched it. Um, and so one night during this hardcore bender, I came up with a plan and the plan was you're going to take your car to car max.

56:56You're going to get 1800 bucks for it. You're going to buy a plane ticket to Costa Rica and you're going to disappear. You're going to leave the job. You're going to leave the kids. You're going to leave the shitty apartment. You're just going to take off. And I don't know if that was me going down the leave in Las Vegas route. Um, but that was the best I could come up with, you know? And then I woke up that morning and I heard a voice. I did hear a voice and it was like, you need to get your children because I never drink around the kids because I was too scared. I'd black out and they'd leave the house or something bad would happen. Yeah. Um, and so I called up the moms and I was like, you need to bring the kids and they're like, are you crazy? We know where you're at right now. We know where your head's at. And I was like, the wheels are about to fall off. Please bring me the kids. Like I need them here. And they brought me the kids and I sat there and I detox for three days.

57:58Um, and my kids were like making me sandwiches and bringing me water. And I was like, daddy's sick, daddy's sick, which is something they're very used to hearing, you know? And like after four days, um, I took them up to this park from the house. And I was still just, you know, feeling horrible. And, uh, they were playing in the park and like, I saw it, you know, I saw like my next purpose, like I saw what I had, I saw what I had always had, but couldn't see it, you know? And I was like, oh my God, man, here's these little kids that like appeared out of nowhere. You know, my love for my children was always there, but you know, when you're an addiction, man, it's, it's really hard to latch on to anything and understand it, you know, and I got it, you know? And I said, I, I gotta get sober. So I called up that same buddy who took you to the first day and I said, listen, man, the word God doesn't scare me anymore.

59:07And he took me to another meeting. Um, and it didn't scare me. And, uh, during those two years between those two meetings, man, I had become so isolated, um, that kind of drinking, you don't do around people. No, um, people would see me out, but the real drinking was happening in that apartment and, uh, you know, that's the part that a lot of people don't see. Um, and so I went to that second meeting. I raised my hand as a newcomer again. And I said, um, I'm an alcoholic and 60 people stood up, stood in line and they either gave me a hand, a handshake or a hug, and I just crumbled. You know, I realized like, Oh my God, you have detached.

01:00:09From the human race, you know, and it was just what I needed. And I didn't ego it up. I didn't fight it. I knew right then and there I was in the right place. Um, and I had little levels of defiance as a sponsor, but for the most part, man, I was like, whatever, I'm so exhausted right now. I don't want to make any decisions. You know, if you tell me to do this, I'll do it. I'm great at following instructions. I've had instructions beat down my fucking face for 25 years. Tell me what to work. I'm not scared to work, you know? And I think that like my work ethic within the industry really, really helped me to get sober. Um, cause it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. And it's not just a matter of not drinking. I mean, there's so much more to it. When you said that for the first time, when you said, I'm an alcoholic for me, the first time that I said that I've said that it's, it was the most freeing feeling that I've ever felt.

01:01:16And I said, it's, I guess the closest thing I can imagine it would be like we, for somebody to come out of the closet, right? Cause I had this suspicion. Am I an alcoholic? Am I an alcoholic? I'm drinking, I'm drinking while I'm driving home today, but that's okay because I didn't drink this morning and I had my active addiction. I never, I could, I could explain why I did. There was a reason for everything for so many years and it, none of it actually makes sense, but it made sense to me in my head that time. When I said, my name's Brandon, I'm an alcoholic. It was like acceptance of who I was the first time I could actually say that and go, I don't have to worry anymore whether or not I'm going to be found out. People are going to know I'm an alcoholic went, okay, now, now let the healing begin, like let's move forward. Now that I've got past that, did you have any of that? Um, I mean, I've been telling myself in my head that I was an alcoholic for a long time. I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't bullshitting myself. I knew, um, I think the, the power of the moment was saying it out loud.

01:02:21Yeah. You know, like my voice is my reality to others. Like here I am. I exist, um, without it, I'm just kind of a blob of meat moving around, but like to, to let you know that I'm here, you know, and then I'm real, I got to open my mouth to do that. And, you know, I think that that was the relief that I got was like, you know, I've known for years, but I'm letting you know, um, and that was the part that kind of, you know, moved me because it wasn't like I was sitting there telling my mom or somebody that I knew I was telling a room full of 60 strangers. You know, I'm Ben and I'm an alcoholic. It's like, it was the first time I could hear myself say it. Wow. You know, and, you know, once again, I would like to say that like early sobriety, I mean, looking back on it, I can create my story of whatever I think it was, but dude, it was so insanely blurry for eight months, man.

01:03:29Like I was just a deer in the head. Log, they say that the takes eight to 10, my eight to eight months to a year for the fog to lift. I mean, I, I, I realized like in early recovery, like I was, I was having a lot of trouble just having small talk with people, articulating words. My sponsor had to get me to, you know, listen to audio tapes to read the book. Cause I just couldn't, I couldn't read. Like I didn't have the mental capacity to like read a paragraph and then not read two or three pages and just completely forget that I was reading. And he was like, read along with an audio book. So I had to do that, you know, with the, the small talk thing. I mean, like my home group, they knew I was nervous. They, they just knew I was a deer in headlights and that I needed to like slowly return to earth. And, um, this one guy, Todd, he was like, Hey chef, I bet you, I bet you make a great cup of coffee, you know?

01:04:33You're the new coffee guy. Yeah. And I mean, but he didn't, he didn't tell me that he was just saying, you know, I make really, I mean, he knew how to flex my ego and out of spite, I started going. I'm going to show these motherfuckers how great a couple of folders I can make, you know, and then, uh, and they, they planted me there, the coffee machine where everyone goes. So I have to engage in small talk or at least say hello to fucking everybody. Like, you know, I came in dude, like subhuman, you know, I mean, it was, I was, I was beat up pretty good. I had to learn some really rudimentary things over again. Um, but yeah, I mean, it, it all started, you know, changing. Very rapidly. I mean, you know, five and a half years in, like every, everything is vastly different.

01:05:34Like life's different now. You said, yeah. Yeah. I mean, um, you know, I, I went to two years of culinary school. I spent 25 years in a kitchen and, um, you know, I own a software company. I can barely send emails, you know? And, uh, I mean, all of that stuff is a direct result to the program. You know, so there's a, there's traditions, there's steps. And one of them is we're, we're, I'm, I'm hesitant, you know, to talk too much about like AA use that name because I don't, I'm not trying to advocate for it. I'm not trying to sell anybody on it. I'm not saying, Hey, that's what you need. You need to go sign up and go do that because that's the traction versus promotion. Right. And we don't want, I'm not trying to promote it or be a face for it or anything along those lines. But when I first got in, I thought, how the hell will I ever go into the business trip? Cause I did a lot of weekend trial. I go Tuesday, Wednesday sales meeting and you know, Dalton, Georgia, or I go to Knoxville or I'd go to Louisville or whatever, all these little trips around here and they'd be gone for two or three days.

01:06:40Those were kind of like every night you go out with all the guys and you drink and I'm like, I can never do that again. I could never vision myself going anywhere. I, how am I going to go hang out with friends? Like I can't have fun anymore. This isn't even a possibility. My first month, I think going to meetings and talking to people, I couldn't, there's no way, but now I've been to the Caribbean. I spent time on an Island and I've gone on trips all over the country and. Nothing like it, not even a, I mean, not perfectly easy, but I can never imagine I could do the things I could do. And if it takes a bunch of people who've helped me, who've cared about me, who've answered the phone, who have just, it's been the most amazing thing in the world. When I thought everybody in the entire world hated me, I found a group people that didn't give a shit about what I had done or who I was. They just knew that they wanted to help me get better. And that's all I needed. I needed somebody that said, Hey dude, it's okay. Like how can I help? And that's exactly what I found. My, you know, contempt before investigation, right?

01:07:42Like I thought that all of these things we're going to have is going to walk in there. And you know, the first guy's going to, Oh, I killed nine children. And I'm, you know, it's like that, that wasn't where I was. I thought that I, I wasn't really that bad in every single person that I met. I was like, I could have done that. I could have done that. I go, yeah, that was me. I've done that. I didn't. And it's amazing how much they say raising the bottom, you know, one of the things I like to do with this whole thing is normalize the conversation. But back in the thirties, back in the old days when they were over forties, when they're writing this thing, you had, you're in a hospital and they took people out of hospitals because they were at that point. And that's when they would try and rehabilitate them. But over time they realized all these patterns and they're like, Hey, you don't have to get that far down. You don't have to lose everything before you get better. We've recognized these traits. So I don't know, it's, it's, it's all fascinating. And, um, it's changed my life. It's been the most amazing thing. Yeah. I mean, you know, I, I started getting, I don't know these statements made to me that just kind of made me question what I thought I knew about everything, you know, which was, I mean, I think anyone getting sober is like, God, you know, life is going to be completely fucking pouring.

01:09:07What am I going to do? You know? And then I would hear things like, what are you doing now? You know, like what are you going to do? If you get sober, you're going to get your ass up off the bar stool and you're going to do all that shit that you're pissed off at yourself that you can't get done. That's very true. You know, like if I'm drinking, I'm only doing one thing. I'm drinking. That's it. It's all consuming. You know, the, uh, I remember being really nervous about going, you know, um, out to see my favorite band, ween at red rocks, you know, and I was calling my sponsor and I was like, man, I don't want to miss it, man. But, you know, and he wasn't one of these, like, you know, don't get sober and not go out and live life to the fullest. You know, he was like, dude, just go. You know? And he said something really profound. He's like, Ben, you know what drinking and concerts have in common? And I was like, what?

01:10:10And he was like, fucking nothing. You know, I had created these definitions that these things meant drinking. I did that, you know, but like I've seen ween over 30 times and only remember five shows and all of those five shows, I was sober, you know? Um, it had never even crossed my mind, you know, like people talk about triggers and stuff. Like there's only one trigger for me and it's consciousness. You know, I mean, it doesn't matter if it's the Superbowl or a concert or a wedding. Or a Tuesday. It doesn't matter. Like if you're in it and you don't know how that mind's working yet, like you, all you got to do is open your eyes and be awake. Which is day to day, you know, people say it's one day at a time.

01:11:13Every single day is a new day. And I'm sorry, yesterday, I can be sober today if I'm sober day having sober tomorrow. And it really is. And I, I've mentioned before that there was a woman had her 38 years. She's got a 38 year chip. And she said, but listen, I got up at eight 30 this morning. And if you got up before me, you have longer than I do because it truly is every single day. Yeah. So, wow. I don't mean we're, we're in a normal I do hour long interviews. We're over an hour at this point and we haven't even got into gig pro and where you're at with gig pro. And I do want to do that. Yeah. Um, so five and a half years, when did gig pro come into play? Like how did gig pro start? Um, the last like four years I was in the industry. Um, I started consulting, you know, um, and during that time, this is like during the time that I'm viciously bottoming out on, on alcohol, uh, half of it in active addiction. But, uh, you know, I opened up this, I opened up like eight restaurants and between 2014 to 2018 got sober 2016.

01:12:32So the majority were on the backside of newly getting sober. But, uh, you know, I was trying to find, Charleston was popping. I was trying to find a restaurant that would hire me on as a chef and let me do my thing. Um, and then during that time of consulting, I had started Airbnb in a room out of my house to make ends meet. Um, and my buddy, uh, that owns the Royal American in Charleston built a 300 square foot kitchen off the back. It's a dive bar music venue. It's a gorgeous place. And if you ever go, you got to stop in for sure. It's like, I want you to do, uh, the menu. And I was like, chef driven dive bar food. This sounds like so much fun. Um, and, um, so I went in there, I launched a menu. Um, we had a dishwasher knock, not show up for a shift, you know, the day of launch. And I was, I do what you're always doing in that situation.

01:13:39I looked at my staff and I said, who knows a guy. Yeah. You know, so we all pull out our phones. We're all whipping through our phones. We all got 40 people in there that can come in and fill the shift, but it's Friday and everybody's working, you know, so finding the person available is impossible. And then I get a push notification, bling. Someone's booked your Airbnb. And I was like, I wish this guy had booked to wash these dishes. And that was it. That was like the light bulb moment. And I was like, why doesn't this exist? Yeah. You know, like right now there's 4,000 restaurants in Charleston. I guarantee you, you know, most of them are experiencing a couple of staffing issues every week. And at the same time, there's tens of thousands of, you know, industry workers out there that are working two jobs to make ends meet that would love to supplement their income on a non-committal basis. And so, you know, the labor shortage had been ripping through Charleston for a decade at that point, you know? And so it was like, maybe this will bring sustainability on the level of like work life balance.

01:14:52Like if we can shift all these people around these part-time hours around, um, work when you want to work rest, when you need to rest, get an on demand rate because they need you now, maybe that will lead to some sustainability. Um, and so that was like the beginning concept. Let's just connect people, you know, um, that both need help, whether it's financial or, you know, to cover a shift. Um, we launched that concept right before COVID hit, um, in a, you know, beta testing environment, got a couple of businesses and they used it. They used the shit out of it. Um, it was a website that communicated through text message. I mean, just completely, you know, archaic system, but they used it and they found a lot of value in it. And the people that were working on it loved it. Um, and then COVID hit and we shut down like the rest of the industry, but I started watching what was happening in the news.

01:15:552.5 million people laid off, you know, and then I started looking back on like my time in the industry. And I was like, I wonder how many people are coming back. Yeah. You know, um, the workforce of this industry has been plagued by low wages, low incentives and no real focus on quality of life or flexibility. And it's not all the industry, you know, back in 2009 when the labor shortage shortage really started to rear its head in Charleston, I think 20% of the industry at that point in time was like, it's getting bad. We need to do something. We need to up wages. We need to start offering things like health care, dental vision, 401k. Like you started to see it pop up, but it was still very foreign. And then, uh, we, we need to focus on the culture within the shop. Is it a toxic work environment or is it cultivating? Um, I do believe that 20% of the industry took that route and took that stance.

01:17:03But when 80% of the industry does absolutely nothing, then it drives people out faster than we can get them in. Oh yeah, for sure. Hence labor shortage. Yeah. You know, so I said everywhere is going to need this, you know, and so we built out, you know, a mobile platform for the worker and we really ramped up the web based application for the business. Um, and then we started launching multiple markets. Um, and the mission of the company changed. It's like, how can we get, how can we, if people have left the industry, how can we attract them back in? You know, we give them what they want. What they want right now is a higher rate of pay and they want flexibility. Sure. So instead of losing them the construction or logistics or carpentry or Amazon or any of that stuff, like let's keep them engaged. Maybe not the way we want them on a temporary basis, but let's keep them engaged in the industry for five shifts a week working on this app.

01:18:09And then maybe they can make their way around to the 20% that say, Hey man, I know your history with the industry has been low wages, low incentives and bad cultures, but we don't do it that way here. Here's how we do it because they are out there. But if 80% of the industry is completely grinding people into dust, then I can come out of culinary school, completely passionate, more driven than I've ever been and never even make it around to the 20%. Wow. Yeah. If 80% of the industry's dialogue is we're going to grind you into dust and then we're going to take you out into the pasture and we're going to shoot you. People aren't going to look here for a career. There's no sustainability in that. No. So we got to change the dialogue. How do we change the dialogue? We get people on the platform. We keep them engaged within the industry without having to leave and go elsewhere, which they've done in droves. We keep them engaged long enough that they can connect with that 20%.

01:19:13That's going to give them, it's going to cultivate them. We let that 20% staff their ranks, scale their business and that model and that culture. And then maybe we can flip flop that percentage. And that's what's got to happen. And we can do that through something as simple as connecting people. So this gig profile shifts. Yeah. You know, you can fill a shift. You can cover a busy weekend, but you can also use it as a really fast and effective way to recruit because we don't operate like a staffing agency and we'd only want to be thrown into that bucket. Like we're not going to charge you a premium and then pay out sub part of the pro. Like whatever the business pays, the pro gets. Yeah. Um, and then no one's beholden to us. There's no contract to break. Staffing agency, you bring somebody in. If you find a diamond into the rough, yeah, you can have them, but you got to book them for 480 hours or you got to pay out a premium to break his contract percentage of their annual salary, indentured servitude, and it should be illegal.

01:20:20If we have to shut every model like that down, so be it. You know, that's forcing people to not come into the industry. So if we don't get in the way of that, which ethically, I don't think I could do, like here's a business that can put this guy in a better financial standing. He can get, they can give them security with incentives and they can better put them in a better work environment and a better culture. And like he can come in and have like a path of growth. I don't want to get in the way of that. No, of course not. Okay. Sometimes I just like to, it's hard to come back with them because I'm just taking in everything that you just said. I mean, there's some pretty powerful stuff you just talked about. Yeah. I mean stuff that Bourdain talked about in the book, but we kind of sweep under the rug because Hey, it's the business. And you just go, we got to work, got to work. Who cares? Make it happen. Just go, come on. I need you. I need you to, I need to come into work shift, work shift. Doesn't matter.

01:21:23It's all about what I need. Um, if I'm a, if let's, I think that there's when I've talked to people about gig pro, they'd go, I don't quite get it. And I think you just explained it, but how do I, if I am a pro, when you say a pro of server bartender, uh, dishwasher, line cook, anybody along those lines who's on the app, how do I get started? And what does that look like for me? Let's just walk me through. If I said, Hey, look, I'd like to join. Do I join gig pro? Do I get on it? How do I do it if I want to be somebody that's for hire? Yeah. So it's super easy. If you want to pick up chefs on the platform, download the app. You know, you go to apple store, Google play store, download gig pro. Um, I mean the entry is create a, you know, create a profile with a picture, a bio, your work history, uh, put in your payment method, because as you work, the funds are directly deposited in your bank account.

01:22:27So you say a payment method, a way in which they pay you doesn't cost them any money to join this, right? No, no. And they don't, we don't take any money from the pro whatsoever. So there is an insurance payment. Yeah. 38 cent an hour, um, covers any worker on the platform with occupational accident insurance. So since you're going in as an independent contractor, uh, that says, if you say you can wield the knife and you cut your finger off 30, 38 cent an hour, we'll get it sewn back on. So it's usually, you know, for the average gig that we got, it's about a dollar 68. So are people 10 99 for this? Yes. Okay. So they're working as independent contractors, similar to an Uber or lift. Yeah. And you know, your own boss. Yeah. Okay. So I sign up, I go on, I put my email in and then I put a profile picture on there. I say, Hey, look, I've worked in this position, this position, this position. And they say, great, welcome to the site.

01:23:28Now I'm on it. Right. So what happens next? Um, as shifts are posted in your market, you get a push notification, you can open up the gig. You can see where it's at, what time it is, where the location is, um, the money, a job description, any requirements like COVID vaccination or mask or non-slip shoes, white on white, black on black. Um, you apply for it. Um, so it is an open marketplace. Um, you wouldn't be issued, Hey, you need to go here at this time. So you get to select the gigs that are right for you. Um, when you apply to them, uh, open marketplace for the business as well, the business can then select their applicants. We don't just send anyone in staffing agency. It's like ordering hamburgers, you know, I need seven people. I don't know who they are. I don't know if they've ever been in a hospitality setting before.

01:24:30I don't know how many are showing up, but I'm expected to pay 28 bucks an hour for them. Okay. You know, so there's, there's no control empowers both sides to connect with who they want to connect with. Well, speaking of both sides, let's, let's walk it over to the business side, right? So I own a restaurant and I want to sign up because I want, I sometimes I'm in that situation where I need a dishwasher or I need a grill cooker, a fry cook, or I need a banquet server. Uh, you know, somebody I see does the daddy's dogs. He's a, he has a hot dog vendor, but he does a lot of events and I always see him on the site saying, Hey, look, I need two people. I'll pay a, you know, $125. You got to show up on time and you got to wear like clothes. Yeah. You know, and he's a fantastic guy and he does a great job, but he just, look, I want to offer these gig things. So let's just say I do that. How long, if, if I get the phone call, if I know at two o'clock, right? It's the day of it's Friday night, two o'clock, my dishwasher calls me and says, Hey man, I can't come in.

01:25:33Can I go to the app at two o'clock and create that position and hit go and then have somebody there by four? Um, yeah, I mean, it's totally possible. You know, we've had people walk in the door in 15 minutes. I would say that it depends, you know, the amount that you can use it on demand depends on how mature the market is. You know, I mean, in Charleston, if someone posted a shift, 14,000 phones go off. So they get mobbed. Um, you know, in that aspect, yeah, we do a lot of same, uh, same, you know, day of within the hour we can fill shifts there. Um, Nashville, I would say that you could do day of and definitely get some money to walk through the door. I mean, y'all are, you and Nashville and Charlotte are next to biggest markets. And you know, I think that businesses on average are getting anywhere from 10 to 15 applicants per per job post. Um, so I mean, what, what about cost cost business? What does it cost me as a business?

01:26:41So we mark up every gig, uh, 18%. So there's, you know, that's our connection fee. What the 18% covers is you don't have to worry about payroll tax. You don't have to worry about issuing the 10 99. We take care of the paperwork. You don't have to worry about workman's comp cause everybody's got their own occupational accident insurance. And then if you like the person, like have the conversation, we encourage it. Like, you know, you want to come work here permanently. Exactly. You did a fantastic job. I'd like to offer you a job, fast and effective way to recruit. If you bring value to the table, you'll probably get a new applicant. But like, I don't know how over a decade, I spent a lot of time and a lot of money buying resumes, which then, okay, great. I got 200 resumes in front of me. I can sit down, I can set up, you know, 30 job interviews. Two people show up. I hire a guy three weeks later.

01:27:43He gets his first paycheck and I never see him again. And like, what's the costs associated with that process? Astronomical. And when all I want to do is like, can you reach the large plates? You know, because if you can't reach the large plates, you got a massive problem. Like it's a performance based industry. We've been doing it. I didn't find dining forever. I mean, it's the stash, you know, which is illegal as shit, but, uh, you know, it's illegal stash. I want, uh, if I'm sitting across the table from you and I want something from you and you want something from me, we're going to tell each other whatever we have to, to get what we want. But if you throw someone into production, you get some transparency and that's on both sides. You see if that guy is a pop throwing chef, you see if this guy gets a station set up and then immediately muscle memories, his phone out of his pocket and stands and does nothing, you know, it like, let me see you in action and then we'll sit down and have the job interview. Yeah. Well, it's a working job interview, so to speak. Yeah.

01:28:47You can, so if I just, let's just say it's, it's what you're saying is not a last minute thing. I think gig pro. I mean, I think one of the things that, that elicits my brain is it says, Oh, Hey, this is a last minute deal. I can get somebody last minute, but if you just need to hire people, you can bring them in for shifts as a training shift. Hey, I'm going to bring you in because I want to train you on this station and I need three days worth of work. And then after two days, like, Hey, you're really good. I'd love you to stay. I mean, you could, like you said, use it as a, as a way to recruit. That's the, I was thinking retention, like a recruiting tool. I mean, we, you know, right now job boards, they didn't work before the pandemic. They're not going to work now. Um, you know, right now we've got the revenue lined up at the door and we can't capture it because we're short staffed. We're closing on Sunday and Monday or Monday and Tuesday. We're limiting our reservation book, whatever it is, we're slowing down the revenue because we can't capture it cause we don't have enough bodies, you know, so we kind of kill all birds with, with one stone. And, and it's like, get the help you need to capture the revenue at the door.

01:30:09And then at the same time, if you're understaffed, like you've got to scale your recruiting efforts. Yeah. And how do you do that? If paying for resumes doesn't work right now, because I talked to a lot of businesses that are like, yeah, we're still posting, but we're not getting any resumes. We're not getting any applicants. So as a business, if I'm short handed and I can't capture the revenue, I've got to get in front of as many possible applicants as I can. And so you need help. You need to get in front of possible applicants. I got 14,000 people right here that you can connect with instantly. And then once they're in the shop, because there's no money or commitment attached to it, they're coming in to help you have the conversation. Yeah. You know, and if you bring value to the table, you'll get a worker out of it. I mean, we, we have businesses on the platform that have great business models.

01:31:11And the only time that they post is when they need somebody they're hiring. Yeah. And it's like, okay, they, you know, they lost somebody. It doesn't cost anything to post on there. No, it doesn't cost anything until it works until it works till you actually hire somebody until somebody shows up, completes the job. Then you hit pay. So if I'm an employer and I'm looking for people, do I go to the app as well? Is that the place I go or is there a website? Like what do there's a, so the business is web-based application. I mean, we're going to slowly start incorporating it into mobile, but a lot of the businesses like the landscape, you know, the schedule view. But you would go to app.gigpro.com and just set up a, a business profile. And then we reach out, we make sure that you're a legitimate business and not a GM drunk at a bar with the company credit card.

01:32:15And has that happened? No, but it's a fear. The, but we have, we have regulations on like a maximum, you know, gig amounts and stuff to protect from that. So I'm really excited that we are going to, we are going to, we are joining up together. We are partnering Nashville restaurant radio and gig pro and we're going to be talking about you more and more in depth over the next several months to get our market, to let everybody know what this is and how it is. And you guys have come up with an actual promo code. If you're out there right now and you're a business and you're like, Hey, let's give that a shot. I want to see how easy this is. If you just want to go test drive the car, so to speak, if you go to go.gigpro.com and then you do a forward slash in our, our B I Z that's the, that's the, that's the website go.gigpro.com forward slash in our, our B I Z and they're going to give you the first gig on them up to $200.

01:33:23Yeah. So you're out there right now. There's no excuse. If you're looking for somebody and I know that you are, you need to go right now to go.gigpro.com forward slash in our, our B I Z and that will get set up a promo code where you can hire your first gig free of charge. Yeah. And that way you can see it to put your money where your mouth is. Let's see if it works for you, see what you think. And hopefully you'll recognize that this is a fantastic way to do recruiting or to fill a shift if you need it. Give it a shot, right? Yeah. 100%. I mean we're putting our money where our mouth is. Um, but you know, if there's something that's getting applicants in the door right now, you know, I think everybody's tired of sending money to buy resumes. You know, I thought you put that really well. Like you get a hundred resumes and you're like, I can't even read. I don't have time to read all of these. I just need somebody that can, and these are quick. I want to, I want to scroll through almost like a dating app. I want to look at the different people and go, okay, this guy's got experience.

01:34:26This guy doesn't have experience. This girl is great. This girl, whatever it is and say, do you want this job? Yeah. And get, I mean it streamlines it. You know, the, the rating system on top of that, which is like, here's what other businesses in the area are rating him on performance. And then here's his accountability as well. So, I mean, so not only are you going to see, you know, have insight into what would get him in the door anyway, name, bio work history, you know, I mean I would always look at the resume and then look up the guy on Facebook to make, to make my decisions. But, uh, you know, so, and then, and then you've got this other added line of transparency, which is the rating system. Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm super excited to dig deep. I'm excited to get some feedback from people that are using it and to try it myself. Yeah. You know, I've got two restaurants. I can certainly try it at my restaurants and I'm excited to do it.

01:35:27I'm excited to continue to work with me with you. I'm so excited that you came in today, uh, flew in for this episode to do this interview. This is, I think one of the best interviews we've done. I think it's powerful. Your story, the vulnerability and just telling from the beginning all the way through and congratulations on five and a half years. I hope that, you know, again, just normalize this conversation that it happens. People out there, drink it's it's an industry thing and it's not a life sentence and that you can have fun and do amazing things. Uh, after you quit drinking, right? Yeah. I mean, it's just getting to the place where you can honestly ask yourself, is this working for me or not? You know, and the answer to that can, can, you know, it can change your life forever for sure. So one of the things we do is the last, the last word, the final word on this show is, uh, goes to the guest. You get to take us out. So I'm going to turn my mic off and turn your mic up and whatever you want to say, as long as you want to say it, Jerry's final thought style, it's on you.

01:36:44Uncover, discover, discard, uncover, discover, discard. All right. There it is. We won't, we won't go into detail and cover, discover, discard. I love it. Ben Ellsworth, thank you so much for joining us here on Nashville restaurant radio. And we'll be talking about gig pro every day. Awesome, man. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Okay. Wow. What an episode. What an interview. What a story. Thank you again, Ben Ellsworth for joining the show. And if you are out there, go visit that website, go visit go.gigpro.com forward slash N R R B I Z and sign up today. If you're looking for a job, you want to work gigs, go sign up today as well. Either way, if you're out there and you listen to this episode and you go, you know what? I think I might have a problem. I think that, you know, I don't know where to begin. I'm afraid to say something.

01:37:47I don't know what to do. I'm, I'm absolutely here for you. Right? So send me an email, Brandon at Nashville, restaurant radio.com. You don't have to say anything in the email. Just, Hey man, heard you on the radio. Call me and give me your tech picture number on there. And I am happy to call and just go, what's up. I'm happy to have a cup of coffee with anybody out there. Our goal here is to again, normalize the conversations around alcoholism, drug abuse, mental health, and the restaurant industry, that correlation. And it happened. I'm right there. I was that guy. I've met so many people. This has been such an amazing experience. People have messaged me and called me and I feel like we're starting to change some lives. People are, are, are, um, I work in this program and I love it. I love people that have identified this in themselves and they, they want to get better. I want to hopefully be a first step for you if you want to, uh, if you want to work on that.

01:38:49So we've got a really big week coming up. Sheila Bennett from core is going to be coming on. She is the executive director of core Sheila Bennett. And, um, core is an acronym for children of restaurant employees. So she's going to talk about everything that they do. And it's just a fun conversation that Jen and I had, and it's going to be out on Friday. We have a bunch of interviews this week and we're just going to be pumping them out every Monday and Friday for you. I know this one's on a Tuesday, but I said on the first of every month. So March 1st is a Tuesday, but, um, we hope that you guys are out there being safe. Love you guys. Bye.