Benjamin Goldberg

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01:09Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, a podcast for and about the people of the Nashville restaurant scene. Now here's your host, the CEO of New Light Hospitality Solutions, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host. We've got a big, big week ahead of us here. It is Monday. Tomorrow is Election Day, and we are coming strong. We are coming strong today with our guest, Benjamin Goldberg. This is an interview that I've wanted to do for like multiple years. He's one of those people that just has always been somebody I've looked up to, and the chance to sit down with him and just talk. We talked for an hour and 45 minutes, and we go over, we hit the gamut of things. So if you're anybody, if you're interested in restaurants or anything that has to do with hospitality or how these guys work over strategic hospitality, this is the interview for you.

02:13I want to say thank you to Benjamin Goldberg and Jordan, all the people that helped set this interview up. He was just so gracious with his time and just such a nice guy. And I just, I just want to say thank you. Thank you. It's just a fantastic interview. I had so much fun doing it. And I hope that you out there are getting ready for tomorrow. You're getting ready to go vote because we have got an amazing episode tomorrow with Dee Patel. She's the managing director over at the Hermitage Hotel. And we talk about the woman's suffrage, the 100-year anniversary, and the whole story behind how it happened and what the Hermitage Hotel, their role in it. And it's a perfect, perfect episode for an election day. So stay tuned because on Tuesday, November the 3rd, we will have another brand new episode. It's a Monday Tuesday this week, not a Monday Wednesday. We'll be coming at you with an all new Roundup Thursday live at 3.30. Dee Lee, Joe Ramsey, and myself are going to go over all the news that's happening in the Nashville restaurant world.

03:14So excited to have you there. Do want to tell you real quick, we have got t-shirts. We've got these super soft canvas tri-blend t-shirts and they are Nashville Restaurant Radio official. We have hats. They're branded Bill's hats. They're super high quality. And you can buy both of these on our website at www.nashvillerestaurantradio.com. They are for sale and this week only as a special election special. I am waiving all shipping, so I am going to pay the shipping for your shirts and hats. And with every single purchase, you will get two Nashville Restaurant Radio stickers, which are great for laptops, cars, wherever you want to put them. We just appreciate the support. We're out here doing everything we can and these shirts are just amazing. I want to say, this is not an advertisement, but Chris Perez over at Global Tees Tennessee just did the best job in the world.

04:16If you're a restaurant out there and you need t-shirts done and you want the super soft amazing t-shirts, this guy is somebody who just goes, he went so far above and beyond. He's been a friend of mine since I was 16 years old. And I gave him a call and I said, hey, I need some shirts. He's like, no problem, man. He came right over. He brought samples. We talked about colors. We talked about feel. We went over and I really wanted kind of a vintage look and I wanted the colors to bleed in. I didn't want this like this bright color on the front. I wanted to kind of bleed into the shirt. He was like, I know what you mean, man. When he came by, we picked out all the perfect colors and I put a lot of energy and time into making the shirt. The level of service that he brought was second to none. And if you are out there right now and you want to work on your merchandise, whatever you're doing to sell, if you're a restaurant and you need something, give him a give him a shout. You can get a hold of him at Chris at Global Tees. That's G-L-O-B-A-L-T-E-E-S-Tennessee-T-N dot com.

05:16So Chris at Global Tees TN dot com and tell him that I sent you because then he'll know what you're talking about. He doesn't know I'm saying this right now, but he did just a hell of a job. And if you want to buy a t-shirt or a hat right now, free shipping at our website, NashvilleRestaurantRadio dot com. Oh, OK. I don't have any more ads for this show. I'm just so excited to bring this to you. Thanks for listening. Benjamin Goldberg with much excitement. Finally, welcoming in Benjamin Goldberg, co-owner of Strategic Hospitality. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, Benjamin. Thank you so much for having me, man. I'm looking forward to it. I've been doing this interview thing for a little while and you were one of those people kind of as I got going. There's no way I think I could have talked to you six months ago. I just didn't have the confidence. But now I'm like I'm chomping at the bit because there's so much that you do. And I've talked to so many people who've worked with you that I kind of have a general idea of what I want to talk about.

06:20So this is going to be fun. No, I love I love the show. I told you that when I when I ran into you in 12 South. I've been listening for a while. So congrats on everything. It's been it's been a crazy ride the past six months, but you've been doing awesome stuff. Well, thank you very much. And I think that a congratulations is in order for you. Locust just opened last week. Congratulations. Thank you so much. It's been fun. So I'm going to jump right in. I mean, I think that we can do lots of pleasantries, but I want to jump right in because I want to know I want to go back to the beginning of time when not that far. I'm not. Yeah, I know. That's the thing. I want to go back to like 2003 from when you came on my radar or when when I don't know if the city of Nash we can go back farther if you want to go back to college and all these other things. But I really want to start at Bar 23. I had Jim Myers on the on the podcast a while back.

07:21And I said, I think that the Goldbergs are some of the most innovative people in the world. And Bar 23 when it first opened and I went to Bar 23, I was like, oh, my gosh, Nashville is it felt like New York. It felt like I was in New York in Bar 23 was like this moment. It was a moment for me that I went. Nashville is going to be changing. Nashville is going in a direction that I didn't know Nashville could go in. And you did that with Austin Ray. Tell me the genesis of that and Jim Myers twizzles. He goes, I wrote that I was I wrote the worst review for that. I hate it. That's correct. Yes. Yes. No, I think so. Austin and I had a very similar group of friends in through high school. He went to Boston for college. I went to Miami for college. We both moved back to Nashville, hoping to open up a bar.

08:23We got to know each other pretty well in 2002, had a few meetings of like, hey, if we both do this, we're going to sort of dilute down what each of us wants to do. Let's let's partner and do this together. And I will be honest, I could never have found at that point in my life a better partner. I mean, he is I think the absolute world of him to this day. And starting in 2002, we hit the ground running and decided we knew exactly what we wanted to do. We had no idea what what it would turn into. We had no idea if anyone would even show up. But we knew what we wanted to do. And we were committed for we were all in for about a year before finally open. That is for sure. Wow. And then you had the addition of City Hall next door. And this is this is a time when the Gulch I mean, the Gulch was nothing. I mean, there are people who are going like, what is a Gulch? What is that? I don't even know what a Gulch is.

09:23Where are we going? And you were like the first one. Did you see that area as a was it cheap rent? Or was it did you think that like this is where Nashville's going? No, I mean, look, we were lucky. We were we tell people we were in the Gulch before there was like a real Gulch. And what I will tell you is we ended up there because we had landlords that believed in us. We were two 23 year old punk kids that just wanted to open a bar with nothing really behind us. We had spent about nine months attempting to raise money to open up a bar that we sort of had a vision on, but really had a hard time explaining to people and to their credit at Market Street with Jay and Joe, they took a flyer on us and allowed us the opportunity to lease a building from them. And that is ultimately why we ended up there. And the building is gorgeous. I mean, we the building is we want an old sort of beat up building.

10:25We went in an old warehouse with super high ceilings, great floors, the whole thing. So we absolutely loved the building and the space and the windows and all that stuff and then locked into the fact that they would even quite frankly talk to us. That's amazing. And you signed what a five year lease. And when the lease up, you decided just to get out. Yeah, exactly right. 23 end. Well, you know, I'll never forget signing the lease. We were like five years like, oh, my God, like what? That's crazy. Like if we make it a year, we're stoked. So five years felt like, you know, forever. What we you know, one of the lessons you learn in this business is like that's actually really not that long. But in those five years, a lot of change. Right. So we were there. A lot of things around us opened up. And the metrics of the whole thing just didn't make sense to to push through. But also City Hall had a shorter lease and Urban Outfitters really wanted that space.

11:27And so sort of towards the end of City Hall, it lined up perfectly with the end of end of our 23. And so we just sort of said, you know what, this is the most amazing moment in time. Let's just get out now while we look back on it and with like the fondest of memories in the world, as opposed to dragging something out that, quite frankly, would be more difficult to do. So 23 years old, you guys spend a year, you get the thing going and you just now said we thought we'd make it like a year. We'd be like, oh, my gosh. So how do you make a business plan anticipating one year? Did you anticipate just being like slammed for a year and then being like, we're out? Like, I mean, what did what did you when you say that, like we thought it was going to last a year. You didn't really think that. No, I mean, we had our goal was was always, you know, we had to raise money for this. We raised we spent almost a year calling 350 people, 400 people to.

12:33Invest in this crazy bar, quite frankly, with no neighbors at the time. And so we knew that our number one goal, our mission in life was to get the investors paid back. And we ran all the math and we knew that we couldn't do that in one year. But we also I mean, I was sort of joking about the year. But five years when you're 23 seems like a really, really long time, especially in the crazy restaurant business. And so, yeah, I mean, we did not have anticipation at the time to make it out of the first lease. There was never a thought that we would go past five years. So you do this and then you pivot in 2000, 2005, 2007. What year did you open Paradise Park 2007? Yeah, 2007. And that's the only one I'll remember all the other ones, sort of the years. I don't know at all. But 2007 was Paradise Park. I don't have the years for the rest of them, so it'll be thank you. That's good. It works out really well. So Paradise Park and this is something that I what I'm what I want to get at is I go through these different restaurants and how you conceptualized them, what you did, the story behind each one is I'm just learning because I'm a restaurant guy and I love what you're doing and the amount of risk that you seem to take.

13:49Almost like, yeah, I'm just going to just do this. So I'm in awe of some of the innovation that you guys have been able to do. And I want to get into the story of your brother. But seeing this spot downtown Nashville 2007, you were by yourself. You were just Benjamin Goldberg opening Paradise Park. What was that was that experience like? Did you just find the building? Did you have this idea for Paradise Park well in advance? I'd love to hear a little bit of that story. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things that that went into it. I think that. So 2007 Nashville was different than it is today. Downtown was different than it is today. And we had Bar 23 and City Hall were open at the time. I was always sort of tinkering around with this idea of like allowed obnoxious place to drink cheap beer. And that is really what was tossing around.

14:53And then along with that, at the time, the rules for bars were way more strict than they are today. Fifty percent of your sales had to come from food at the time to have like a liquor license. And so there was always a thought process that you needed some sort of food. And so that was really where this came from. We wanted to do. Six dollar pitchers of beer and burgers and fries and just be have really nice hospitality. And then, you know, hand patty burgers, hand cut fries, sort of bring some some real food downtown at the time. In 2007, though, we were the only ones on that side of the street, basically. I mean, people looked at me like I was insane. And the answer, I mean, the question I got all the time was like, you're doing Paradise Park on the wrong side of Broadway. Why would anybody cross the road? Everyone's going to be going to tootsies in the stage and all those places. Why would they cross the street? And in the back of my mind, all I thought about was like, if I'm not good enough at what I do to get you to cross a street, then I need to get out of this business completely.

16:01And the goal from day one was to get on the circuit. No one goes to one bar downtown. They go to lots of bars downtown. And I knew that if I could get on the circuit of them getting on to the train of hopping from bar to bar to bar and if Paradise Park was on that, we would be all right. And so that was sort of the thought process to it. And so downtown on that side of the road, like you mentioned, I mean, there was I will never forget. Shawna Keys was a bar down there and it closed and it sat empty. I mean, like 10 years, what was that? Which is now Honky Tonk Central. Yeah. Well, like this just gigantic empty building. And I'm like, is nobody just going to buy this? Like, what's going on? And you guys had Paradise Park. You had Paradise Park. And what was your did you see what was happening in Nashville to buy that building? And just to kind of be down there, what was your vision? What did you see Nashville being at that time? What did you see Nashville being in 15 years?

17:03So 13 years, I mean, honestly, I don't think I thought that far. I will tell you that one of the things you referenced a little while ago was Bar 23 and the people that were going in there. And I think what Austin I recognized at that point with Bar 23 was there was this amazing energy amongst younger people in this city that looked at restaurants and bars differently than what my parents were viewing it as. They cared about certain things that, quite frankly, my parents don't care about. And then there was this massive commitment to this really cool energy of young people that were going out, doing interesting things, whatever that might be, whatever industry they were in. It's not just restaurants and bars. It's all of these different things. And we got to meet all these people. And I was like, man, there's a lot of momentum from a younger generation in the city to push this thing forward. And that was a lot of the energy of Bar 23. It was a lot of younger people that were just doing fun, quirky, interesting things.

18:04And that was a place they sort of came together to hang out and let loose and have fun. And through that, got to meet some of the greatest people in the world. And then when Paradise Park came around, my thinking to the whole thing there was like, everyone says they don't go downtown. Like, I hear it to this day all the time. Everyone was like, I don't go downtown. I never go downtown. It's just no one local ever goes downtown. And I'm like, oh, you've never gone to a concert at the Ryman? You don't go to Pred's games ever. You don't go to Titans games. You've never gone to the symphony. You've never gone. You go downtown. You just don't associate what I'm doing downtown as downtown. And so my thought was like, if I can do something authentic and real and make it feel like you're comfortable going and we're not going to take advantage of you, then all my friends from around the city that are going to a Pred's game, they may stop by before the game and grab a burger and fries. And then all of a sudden, you've got a really cool, interesting dynamic of people before hockey game, before a concert, before whatever it is that we're coming in and hanging out.

19:11And that was the whole thought process there. And again, just got super lucky that that the people we work with executed that. And what an amazing place it is. I spent my 30th birthday at Paradise Park. I got on stage. Did you remember the whole thing? Yeah, I mean, yeah, I remember my sister did a scavenger hunt for me. And it was like me and like 15 people. My wife threw this big party and we went downtown and did all of the things that everybody denies that they do. And we went down there. And one of the things was on the scavenger hunt, I had to get a bar to do the Macarena. And one of them was I had to get on stage with a band and have them sing me happy birthday. And I checked off that part of the scavenger hunt at Paradise Park. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. That's a cool memory for me. I mean, yeah, 12 years ago, something like that. That's awesome. You guys also do free beer for people wearing Pred's gear on game days.

20:14Or you did. I don't know if you still do that. Still do. Still do. Which was always a cool thing, too. I thought that was just a cool way to say, hey, look, put your Pred's gear on. Come pregame here. Come have a beer on us. Which is just another innovative, just kind of a cool thing to do for Pred's fans. Yeah, I mean, it's all there's a lot of synergy there. I mean, I think that, you know, the idea is that we wanted to create an energy before Pred's games. I grew up playing hockey and it's, you know, there's 41 home games a year. And so if I can get you down there 41 times and you're grabbing a second beer or burger, chicken, you know, whatever that is, you know, that's the thought process. And also, you know, I think that there are now so many places downtown, just something where, you know, you can go in and hang out and feel good. That's that's what we're trying to create. I think you did. You did it swimmingly. So 2007 and I do, you know, I have I have a direction I want to go here. I feel like I'm a little I feel like I'm a tad Chris Farley. I'll interview with with Chris Farley back there on Saturday Night Live where he's got Paul McCartney.

21:15He's like, remember that time you guys played that song? Yeah, that was cool. I like that. I feel like I'm in that stage of an interview and I have a direction. I really like remember that time when you had Paradise Park. Yeah, it was awesome. I'm going somewhere. I promise. Hey, I'm here to hang out. So wherever you want to go, you tell me. Hey, I'm happy. So I was trying to I'm trying to establish back in the day because I think most people listening to this were not in Nashville in 2003, 2005, 2007 when that happened. And to me, who was in the business, I did my level one sommelier in 2003 and I was the bar manager at Amerigo on West End Avenue in 2004. And so, I mean, I was right there in that scene. I mean, I'm drinking wine. I'm having cocktails. I'm hanging out with friends after we get off work and Bar 23 was like, Whoa, there's this place now that we can go.

22:15That's like we got to get dressed up after work. We got to go there and you always had to like put on this persona when you got there. It was really it was a departure and it was amazing. And then Paradise Park also, I mean, there was just one of those places because we did go downtown back then. You went, you know, Division Street or not Division Street, but DeMumbrian was kind of blowing up back then with the 10 roof and two doors down and those type bars. So, I mean, there was this there was this this thing that was happening in Nashville back then that don't think a lot of people recognize. So I'm going back to kind of establish where we came from. 2007, you brought your brother on. Yep. You brought Max on. Is that when you formed strategic hospitality? Were you just Benjamin Goldberg restaurateur? And then when he came on, is that when you formed strategic? Yeah, it was. I mean, I think I formed strategic maybe a few months before that. And and really, I mean, I begged Max to move back to Nashville for years and he wouldn't do it.

23:18So basically what happened was so Austin and I did Bar 23 and City Hall together. And when I was conceptualizing Paradise Park, Austin was with me on this. It wasn't just Benjamin conceptualizing Paradise Park. Austin and I spent countless hours talking about Paradise Park together and we had every intention to do it together. And what ended up happening was just all of these circumstances of life were coming to bear. And Austin decided not to do Paradise Park with me. And I decided that I really wanted to do Paradise Park. That was why we stopped working together. It was strictly just because I wanted to keep going. And Austin just decided that he wanted to get out of the business, which is ironic to say now because he's heavy in the business at that moment, wanted to get out a little bit. And so Paradise Park came to be because got a phone call from the people that own the building and said, hey, we bought a building in downtown Nashville.

24:21Would love to bend your ear on on what you think would be fun down there. And I was like, look, I'm actually loading in a show at City Hall, so I can't meet you anywhere. But if you want to swing by, feel free to swing by and I'll chat with you. I got nothing but time on my hands. And lo and behold, they swung by and I met the nicest people I've ever met. And I was like, hey, I don't think you're going to want to do this. But like, here's my pitch on what I want to do. And he was like, we're in. I was like, oh, my, wait, what? You're in. And he's like, look, I don't have the final decision here. But like, if you want to come out and meet with us, sell us on it, give us your pitch. And I was like, you tell me when I'm going to pitch you. And so I went out and pitched Paradise Park and we partnered to do that together. And then what I ended up about six months into Paradise Park is when I finally convinced Max to move back to Nashville. That was an ongoing multi-year process of me saying, hey, Nashville's growing.

25:26There's an energy. I feel it. I know that that that this industry is going to explode in this city because of what I just see very granularly at all of these places. But I could never do this by myself. There's no way I can do it by myself. I'm not smart enough. I'm not good enough. I can't do it. Max, you're amazing and special and wonderful. And you have all of these things. Move back and let's partner up. And Max is living in New York at the time, quite frankly, having the time of his life and living with our cousin, who's like a brother and like he had zero interest in coming back to Nashville for like a year, year and a half. And finally, I convinced him to move back about six months after Paradise Park opened. And so from that point forward, we've partnered on everything together. Fifty-fifty partnership, you and Ben or you and Max. Exactly. Yep. So what aspects of what he brings to the table? I mean, you obviously needed him like you had a partner in this thing.

26:27What are the attributes that you do really well? And what was what was missing that you so needed him? And what are the things that he does really well, the yin to the yang? Like, what was that? Was there a moment when you were like, I really need you, dude. This is why. Like, what was your pitch? My pitch was just that I felt like this industry was growing. A lot of the reasons which you said earlier, which is this city was so different in 2003 and four and five this city. But there was this energy. There just weren't a lot of venues for people to go to at the time. But there was this powerful energy you felt everywhere you went. And so my pitch to him was like, this can be super special. And I just think that this industry is so hard. I mean, you've been in it. You lived it. This is a brutal industry. It is hard every single day. And I just knew I always wanted to have a partner to work through things with.

27:28I think you put more people, talented people together in a room. You end up with a better product each and every time. And so I that was my thinking and my thought process. And Max would tell you, like, I had two ways to go. I could partner with somebody that I didn't know very well, came in from another city, probably convince them that Nashville is going to start booming and all this stuff. But I genuinely never went that. The only thing I wanted was to partner with Max. And I knew that if I could convince him to come back, like, we could grow a company that we would be really, really proud of. And quite frankly, I obviously is my brother. I trust Max with my entire life. And that's a huge part. We always know that we're in it together and that we're looking out for each other. And and really, quite frankly, like, have the same goal of just doing fun, fun things together. I love that. And that's so it makes sense when you think about your success, because I think that trust, you know, Patrick Lencioni writes in Five Dysfunctions of a Team, the absence of trust is such a massive killer of businesses and partnerships, because if we don't trust that the end goal is exactly what we're both working towards, then you start questioning people's motives.

28:49And when you do something like you're doing, when you have complete trust that the other person that you guys are both rowing in the same direction, it really helps you in meetings and to have healthy conflict. Do you guys argue really well? I mean, I imagine when you have complete trust, that's the thing I think a lot of people miss is that arguing is good. Like conflict is good. If everybody's just going, that's a good idea, that's a good idea, that's a good idea. You don't grow. Like the idea of arguing is a positive thing. Are you guys able to argue really well? Because I think that's a good thing. Yeah, I think that that is part of it. I mean, the best part of the partnership is that we know the point that we want to get to, but you can get there hundreds of ways. And as long as we both know that our direct goal is to get to that point, we will argue passionately on how to get there. And then what actually comes out of it, I think, is probably a compromise that would have been better than either one of our paths. And so because we sort of are able to vet each other and we're brothers, there are no limits.

29:53Like we can say whatever we want to say to each other and do. And then ultimately, you know, it's kumbaya moments and you say, well, what if we sort of look at it this way? Those are the moments where you're like, oh, man, this was so much better than what I would have done by myself. There's no doubt about that. I love that. That's just amazing. And I can see that with you guys. He's like a different personality. He's definitely a different personality than you. I don't know him really at all, but I did a little bit of research before I talked to you and he's there's a bunch of interviews out there with him. And he was named, you know, back a little while ago, top 30 under 30 from Forbes. I have no idea. I actually don't read any of that stuff, to be perfectly honest with you. I can't stand it. None of it. I don't read any of the press. The only stuff I've read is Jim Meyer's terrible review, which I took me years to get over.

30:53And now I love him. But there was a moment in time ever since then I've learned I can't I don't have the thick skin. I can't read them, good or bad. So you don't you don't do social media. You don't read all that stuff. No, I don't. I actually don't read any of it. I will tell you. So this is true story. Jim Myers wrote the review and it was terrible. He was at the Tennessee at the time. And those reviews would be published online at three in the morning. And I knew that. So I woke up at three in the morning. I'm sitting in bed. I go straight to the Tennessee and I read the review and I am devastated. I mean, devastated. And all I could think to do besides cry was I got in my car and I drove to every gas station I could and bought every single newspaper I could just so I thought other people wouldn't read it. Wow. Yeah. And I've only read the review once. No one else.

31:57We have a copy of it. My mom has a copy of it. And I'm not allowed to read it. Takes me to a bad space. So ever since then, I've decided I don't read any reviews. You know what? There's so many people in this world. Election Day is tomorrow and there's so many people right now. I think the popular thing to say is don't don't watch the news. Don't read what everybody's saying because everybody has an agenda. And if you don't do that, you're not swayed in any way. Yeah, I mean, I think that the thing the other thing about it is these things are so personal. Like when Max and I open up a restaurant, they are super personal to us. And when someone says something and they think something is great, you might get a hyperinflated sense of like, oh, that's awesome. And if they say they don't like something, you can start veering off course because you're like, oh, I got to fix this, that and the other. We just sort of feel like we make these commitments to ourselves that this is why we're doing these projects.

32:59We're going to keep going that path. And if I try and avoid all the other noise that sort of prevents me from veering off that path. OK, I'm going to get into we're going to move into your next place. And I don't know if from Paradise Park, if you bought merchants or if you went into Patterson House. I don't know which one your next one was. Like I said, I don't have the exact timeline. But I want to go towards the Patterson House because again, Bar 23, so innovative, so just ahead of its time. And then the vision behind Paradise Park and just how cool that place was. The Patterson House, when I was back that day when I was at Amerigo, I heard that because you have all the liquor reps and everybody coming by. And the words started getting out that this guy is weird. These weirdos brothers are opening this bar that's going to be like a speakeasy. And they have like seven different kinds of ice. And I was like. The hell they have seven different kinds of ice.

34:02Like, what are they doing over there? Like, why do you need different kinds of ice? It was so foreign to me. The different kinds of ice thing. But you guys were like on it. Where did the idea for Patterson House come to play? I mean, that had to be what, 2008, 2009, 2010? Yeah, it was right around there. Because that means it's funny. So I was at City Hall loading out a show. And I was like, you guys, I had like a 530 a.m. flight or something like that. And they were loading out a show. I was like, you guys got to hurry up, man. Like, I've got to get to the airport. And I can't remember what band it was, but they're like, oh, where are you going? And I was like, I'm going to to Chicago for I can't remember even why I was going there. And like, if you go to Chicago, you've got to stop in this bar. And I was like, cool, I'll write it down. And lo and behold, I was in Chicago and I was like, I've got nothing to do. I'm going to stop by this bar. And it completely changed the way that I looked at cocktails.

35:04I mean, it was unbelievable. The Violet Hour. And I became obsessed with it to the point that I tracked down the folks that opened it, reached out to them, met with them in New York. And I was like, look, here's the deal. Like, I don't know if this can work. And I don't know if Nashville is even somewhere like you think this even makes sense. But I genuinely believe that like the product that's being put forth and the care and the thoughtfulness that goes into it is unlike anything I had experienced at the time. What are your thoughts on this? And so that's sort of how the Patterson House came to be. And then through that, those guys introduced Max and I to Josh. And Josh was the first GM of the Patterson House. Josh coming on the show telling his story of what he was doing, the opportunity to come to Nashville and kind of be the general manager slash to be like a bartender.

36:07How absolutely amazing that experience was was one of my favorite stories of all time that we've we've had on the show. Just the way that his brain works. He's one of the he's one of the most gentle, most amazing people that I've met in this industry. I really I'm just he is not only is he one of the most talented people that I've ever worked with in my life and gotten to know. He's one of the nicest people that I've ever gotten to work with and know. And he's just a really good person. And that is the that's the type of people I want to surround myself with. Like if I and so he was just, you know, such an amazing, special person to go to work with and get to know. And so, yeah, that is how he got to Nashville. That's how we convinced them to get to Nashville and have been super, super lucky since then, because I mean, he is spectacular. So you don't read reviews, but when you open the Patterson House and you don't put a sign really out front, you do make it like a speakeasy.

37:15You have to like know how to get there. And it's the secret place. And then when you see other bars open up that are doing the same thing, I think the Holland House opened and they're doing craft cocktails. But not mean all the rage is craft cocktails and the term mixologist and all of these different things kind of happened. And you were the first one to do it. How does that make you feel just to see all of the other how that trend has just really hit Nashville? I mean, I think the trend was going to hit regardless. I don't think I had very Max or anyone had like very much to do with a lot of that stuff. I think that the trend was going to come regardless because all we're doing is putting delicious ingredients into a glass and drinking it. Like that's the funny thing is you're right. Like that didn't really happen before oftentimes. And I think that it was going to get here no matter what. I think one of the things that we've been lucky is that moment in time of the Patterson House opening team and the people that were involved were so special.

38:20I mean, the amount of Josh moved to Nashville like six months before the Patterson House opened and found them like this weirdo apartment. And like we would spend hours at his apartment like tinkering with bitters and making all of these things. And it was just such a special time to be a part of that. I'll remember that always. And then I think that, you know, Josh's leadership, like they were just able to excel at not only the product they were putting forth, but making people feel really good about it. Right. I mean, our ass was insane if I look back on it. And most people thought we were crazy and that we would fail miserably because basically we were the most expensive drink in the city at that point. We were we were going to make you I mean, you had to be seated. There were rules to do it. And you had to wait. Like when we opened, you were waiting 15, 20 minutes for your drink. Like there was nothing like fast about this bar experience.

39:21There were a lot of asks from us. And the only way that would have worked was if everyone on the staff committed to the process to do things the right way from the product standpoint, but also make people feel warm when they walked in and they would be patient with us. And so I think, you know, that's really when I look back at the Patterson House, that's what I think about more than anything is is just how amazing that open that that team was to to really allow people to feel good about what our crazy, insane asks were at the time. So when you do crazy, insane asks of people, you mentioned, like, I think what you're talking about is a culture. Do you have a defined culture? What is your you know, is it something people just know? Or do you have like core values that you lead everybody by? You know, I think that we want to make people happy and every restaurant has its own little personalities that take place and take hold within some of those restaurants.

40:28But one of the things we strive to do or we try and do all the time is, you know, especially in Nashville today, you can go anywhere and get good food and drink. We are and we should always be honored that they chose to come to any one of our restaurants. And we really want to engage everyone to make sure that that everyone understands how lucky we are that they've chosen to walk through the door. That is both employee and guest, to be honest. And so I think that at that moment in time of the Patterson House, I think we all sort of knew that that it could be a really special thing if it was done the right way. And if it wasn't done the right way, we would not be there for very long because nobody is going to wait 20 minutes for a mediocre drink and be treated with a mediocre attitude and staff that doesn't care if you're there. Like we had to go overboard on making sure people felt cared and we provided thoughtfulness to the whole experience. I think that is something we've tried to preach for a long time.

41:30I love that you use that word mediocre. I did a I do a show the roundup every Thursday afternoon live. I do a segment called On Brand. In my segment last week, I talked about mediocrity and I defined it as just not being good. You know, the actual definition of mediocre is just like average, not even average, not very good. And that we can't accept that. Is that is that just are you every restaurant, everything that you do? Are you just fighting that in every way? Or does that come naturally? Is that just like part of what you are? Because you use that word twice and that's something that I've never experienced in one of your places. That is the hardest thing. And I think that when I look back on and I'll get to the answer to the question, I promise. Please go ahead. Look, Bar 23 wasn't special because of Austin and I. Like we were just two dudes. We had a staff there that was committed to ensuring that you had more fun in that bar than you do.

42:31Then you did the bar down the street or else you wouldn't have come to our bar. Like, yes, we had seven shades of white, which was the dumbest thing we could have done. But like that was gorgeous. Stop it. It was gorgeous. It was great. But like who had seven shades of white? We went to touch up paint and we're like, well, we don't know what we're doing. But like the people that work there made you have more fun than you did any other bar. That's why you would come back. We made you feel better about it. And you had a good time at the same at City Hall. Like no band wanted to play at City Hall, but we knew we would. They knew we would take care of them. We had a washer dryer. We would put, you know, video games in the green room for them. We were hospitable and nice when they would come and do sound check and load in same at Paradise Park, like on lower Broadway. Like we just want to staff. And that's what makes these places. It is not at the time. At the time, Austin or Max, it is is the people every day engaging with the staff. Now I'll get to the answer of the mediocrity side. This business, like I said earlier, is so hard. And I think that one of the things that that has been beaten into me is like I grew up in Nashville.

43:37These restaurants, when I leave the restaurants at work and I go eat in somebody else's restaurant and I know them, I don't want them to be like, oh, man, I went to your restaurant and it was. Not that great. Like, that's just an awkward experience. And I try and avoid the awkward experience as best I can. And the only way to avoid that is like, let's just push every day to get better and try and do things that are more special. And that is a hard thing to do, because, quite frankly, I don't think everybody really wants to do that. They might think they do. But then when you put the you put your head down and do the work, that's really hard stuff. And so, you know, I think that is, you know, the Patterson House going back to that. Like, that's a really intense program. I mean, that is to get seven types of ice, to get the jiggers and the syrups and the bitters and all of this stuff, like the amount of work that has to be done correctly to get that recipe right, to make sure the guest enjoys it. That's a lot of work and commitment. And if that was a mediocre cocktail, trust me, nobody, the staff wouldn't sign up for it.

44:41The guests wouldn't sign up for it. And we would have been gone many, many years ago. That's exactly a recipe for success. I mean, just to really do that really well. People, I think people crave that. I do. I love walking in somewhere and being instead of being underwhelmed. I love it when I go somewhere and it's flawless. I had dinner the other night at Yolan and it was, you know, it was flawless. Every single aspect from them opening the front doors to the safety that they have to mean everything that they do. And it's like, yes, like they hit every single note. And it was like the same thing at Bastion, you know, chef and Lauren meeting at the front door. And they have every single detail and everything is just perfect. And you go, yes, like this is it. I want to do this more. This is great. And that's what excites me. Like I get goosebumps. Like genuinely thinking about those experiences.

45:41That is why I do this. And that's why Max does this. Like we want to make people happy and to make them happy. You have to go above and beyond. It's the little details that add up to make this experience unlike anything else. And I will say I am so bummed. I have not been to Yolan yet. It is everyone telling me I've got to go. And I had I was supposed to go and I couldn't go a couple of weeks ago. And now it's like on my list. I have to get there. You got to. I mean, it's it's an experience. It's it's it's one of those things kind of like the bar 23. You get there and you like this is Nashville. Like I kept looking around going, I can't believe this is Nashville. This should be Chicago. And of course, he's you know, but he's you guys have been the leaders in that every time you go to one of your places. You're like, this is Nashville. And like, it's interesting to see somebody else come in and go, this is Nashville. I mean, it's cool. I think it's great that they're in to do that, because I think they're going to help. You know, what's the term? Raising tides raise all ships.

46:42Is that what it is? I don't know what it is. Yeah, yeah, something like that. Something like that. I don't know. Close enough. My favorite story that Josh told was the idea of him being a chef and being at the Patterson House. Putting ingredients together, a chef behind the bar, though, putting ingredients together, taking a long time, setting it in front of somebody and then watching what they do, watching what they do with it. So as a chef, typically you're in a kitchen, you create food, you put it in a window. It's gone. You don't see what happens to it. It's gone. But at the Patterson House, he was watching when he set drinks down, if people took the garnish and set it aside or if they ate it or if they took a picture of it or if they stirred it. But he was looking at all of these details and he thought, how cool would it be if we could do this with food? How cool would it be if I could create the food, put it in front of somebody and constantly be tweaking it based upon like real time, seeing what they're doing with it and going, oh, nobody eats the mint.

47:49I'm going to take the mint and I'm going to replace it with the sage or whatever it might be. And he said he told several people about this concept and they're all like, oh, it sounds cool, but you're crazy. There's no way it's too expensive. You can't make that happen. Like, no, no, no. And he said, you know, I was just kind of randomly, casually telling people over drinks that he had this idea. And then he tells, I didn't remember if he said it was Benjamin or Max, one of you guys or you guys together, he tells you the idea. And they said, let's do it. And he was like, no, but it's going to cost too much money. It's going to be too much. It won't work. And he was like, and they were like, no, let's make it happen. And that's how the catbird seat was born. And I was just like, who are these guys that just go? Yes. Was it a belief in Josh? Was it a belief in the concept? How does how do you do that? How does your brain just go? Let's roll everything you just said about Josh. Is the exact reason why I would never doubt the catbird seat.

48:49I mean, how many people do you know that actually pay attention to every single one of those details, every single shift they're working behind a bar and notice that and then make adjustments to the next drink they're making? Like, that is crazy. He's like the most ridiculously amazing, talented person in the world. How do you ever and he first of all, remember, he moved to Nashville for that job. I think Nashville is a better city because of Josh. So how would I ever sit down in front of Josh and Josh say, I want to do this and then say, no, we can't let him leave Nashville. So we're like, yeah, we're doing this. Right. Like, I mean, that that is exactly right. And I am sure that most people he would have told that had never worked had the opportunity to work with Josh probably would have told him he was crazy. I fully believe that. But after working with Josh or seeing Josh bartending that environment, you're not going to doubt Josh's ability to pull that off. So we know we're in.

49:49But let's do it. So here we go again. You've got it is this pathway of innovation from the Patterson house to the catbird seat. I remember when the catbird seat opened, I tried to make a reservation. You guys were the first people again, the first people in the city to do online reservations because that wasn't really even a thing. You could go and schedule your dinner there because you had a finite amount of seatings and you could just do it. And it was like a month out, booked out like you couldn't get was literally one of those things like the reservation was hard to get because you had to book it a month out. And it was, you know, I think at the time, like three hundred dollars with wine pairings for two people to eat, which doesn't seem crazy. But like at the time, I was like, wow, OK. And you were just killing it. Did you anticipate that? No, I mean, no, I think it did it. I think that there are very few people that can pull something like that off. I mean, not only do you have to cook food at the highest level at the highest level, not only for Nashville, but for any city, anywhere people are going to go and travel to.

50:58You also have to do it directly in front of guests. And you also have to engage the guests directly in front of you to ensure that they feel comfortable doing that, because that can get awkward. I've eaten in restaurants before and I've sat where the chef is cooking. And I will tell you that they are not the experience that I would go back to because the chef, I mean, I could tell they didn't want me there. So I didn't want to be there. And it was just a terrible experience. That's a lot of pressure to put on one chef in a restaurant. And so do we expect it to be as busy as it was and quite frankly is? No. But I also think that just going back, I think that we were all in on the team. I mean, the team up there, when you look back at the opening team of the catbird seat, it is some of the most special people in the world. And we were all in on them. And we I mean, frankly, that was their show to either sink or swim on.

52:01And man, they they swam. And it was just a blast. I worked with them for a while up there. Did you feel because you said that you went to Chicago and you got the idea for the Patterson house and bar 23 was you and Austin. We didn't mention Austin. You said he's in the business. He's the proprietor for M.L. Rose. That's his kind of his thing that he's doing. That's his big thing. I think he also is in the Suttler, maybe cinema, something along those lines. I got Suttler and Von Elrods and the pool hall down there. And I mean, Austin's awesome and super talented. But yeah, he's in the business for sure. Yes. But so the catbird seat was really not your first concept because you had Paradise Park. But like the first thing that you is it the first thing that you did where that you weren't like there was just an original idea that you guys did that other people were copying that other people were going, wow, look what you've done. Is that right with that?

53:02What do you mean? Like people other people opened up tasting menus and things or, you know, I mean, I don't was there another there's not a restaurant like catbird seat out there. Was there a restaurant at the time that was like catbird seat anywhere? First of its kind, right? I mean, national nationally. Yeah, I would say that there were probably other restaurants you can get. To be honest, I don't remember the timeline of when other things opened up around the country or the world, but it was definitely unique. And I think that, you know, I think the uniqueness came to me because Josh loved the bartending side. And to tell you like we didn't know Josh could cook when we hired Josh to bartend like we did not know that that was like he was nearly as talented of a chef as he we knew that the restaurant he worked in he had a great palette. But like when he cooked food, we were, I mean, absolutely blown away and there was no doubt in our mind that that he was the guy that could execute something. OK, so let's let's move.

54:02We're going to move on because we got a lot of restaurants to go over here. We're going to run out of time. Josh invites Trevor Moran to come in and cook with him while he's in town. He says, hey, come cook with me at the catbird seat. This will be a lot of fun. And it turns out he says, hey, do you do you want to be the chef here? I'm going to go do other things. You bring in Trevor Moran, so that's an amazing synergy that you guys brought in there with Trevor, who we're going to get to in just a minute. OK, Josh goes and he turns he kind of becomes a corporate chef of sorts and does the menu for Pinewood Social. The idea for Pinewood Social is a place, again, completely different than everything else that you've done. But really, the idea was somewhere that you would like to hang out, just somewhere that you you guys are busy. You're downtown. You need a place to work. So, hey, we're going to build a place that we typically go.

55:02We got coffee. We've got a great place. Is that your kind of whose idea was Pinewood Social? Was it just you and Max together or was it more so one than the other? No, Max and I mean, all of these things are very Pinewood was Max and I for sure. I mean, I think that ironically, I was given a book the day I signed my first lease at Bar 23 from my landlord's there called A Great Good Place. Talks about third third places. Starbucks is probably like the most famous one, right? Like their goal was to get a cup of coffee and then you would stay and hang out and maybe grab a pastry. And then Max and I, you know, we're brothers, so we do a lot of things together. And one of those things was traveling. And when we travel, oftentimes we try and sneak out a day early, but we'll work in whatever city that we're in. And, you know, we were in New York and we basically spent the entire day, 14 hours working in a hotel lobby. And we were like, oh, my God, we have not left this place at all.

56:02And here we are in what people say is most exciting city in the world. That's awesome. And really, when it came down to it, you know, we want to create a third space where exactly like you said, like where you could hang out literally all day, spend more time than you ever thought you would ever spend at any one restaurant. That was the goal there. And just to keep you there for a really, really long, really, really long time. I think it's worked. It's been successful. Yeah, it's been great. We love it. One of those things that very rarely do restaurants and bars work out exactly as you think they're going to and be used the way that you want them to be. Pinewood is used exactly how we hoped and dreamt that it would be. We have people that start companies out of there. We have people that have, you know, met there for extended period. We have people that that is their office. That is where they work five, six, seven days a week. And that is exactly why we wanted to be there. And it's truly special. We are. We love it. Well, I know my sister goes there a lot. She works for Hands on Nashville and she's right there all the time.

57:03So she's a she's a big fan. Josh. So just about the Josh thing, Josh then goes out and you guys open Bastion. Now, this is something that I've always wondered. How does this work? You have a parent company, Strategic Hospitality, and then when you guys open a restaurant like Bastion with Josh, he's the chef and owner. But do you guys just partner with him? How does how does that dynamic work? Because you do that with Josh and with Julia as well and with Trevor now. Yep. Locust. Those are their restaurants, but they're also your restaurants. We partner with them. I mean, they run the show. We're there to help when if needed and do the things that, you know, they may not want to do or may not have time to do and just try and experience share as best we possibly can. But, you know, we want to help support and grow them.

58:05There's all of them. The three that you just named are absolutely insanely talented people that we are fortunate and lucky to be involved with. And so, yeah, I think that that is a scenario where we just want to find ways to keep working and surrounding ourselves with people like that. And if we have the chance to partner with them and open a restaurant with them, we're going to take that every single time we possibly can. How did you guys meet Julia Sullivan? Middle school together. Where'd you go to middle school? Max and her are the same age. They went. We all went to university school. OK. Right there on 21st. Yeah. And so, Josh, I'm sorry. So Julia and Max went to school together. Julia went to school to college in New Orleans and then went to culinary school and then was living in New York cooking for a long time. We have always stayed in touch just through mutual friends and all that stuff. And then I had heard that she was exploring the opportunity of leaving New York and moving back to Nashville.

59:12And my wife and I were in New York at the time. We met with Julia just to sort of hang out and say howdy and do that stuff and tried to find a way for her to come back to Nashville. And we had an opportunity at the time to put her on the opening team at Pinewood. And so we quite frankly jumped at it. So you brought her back. She was on the opening team at Pinewood. And when did the idea for Henrietta Redd and that whole how do we move from being on the opening team at Pinewood to I want to open my own restaurant in Germantown, call it Henrietta Redd, and would you guys work with me? So she was working on that before she moved back to Nashville. That was why she wanted to come back to Nashville. We were just lucky enough in our minds to be able to have her during a pocket of time. And as fate would have it, we now get to work with her for longer than that pocket of time. But that was always in her plans. We had very little to do with her coming back. We were just sort of probably in her mind that gap where she had an idea for a restaurant.

01:00:15She knew she wanted to be back in Nashville, but she needed a job in order to make all of these things happen and connect all those dots. And we were more than happy to work with Julia because we love Julia. And we were that little pocket where she could have a job and continue pursuing the opportunity to open her restaurant. I'm so impressed by some of these people that you've been able to work with. And just, I mean, catching lightning in a bottle, you know, for Patterson House or Keppard Seat, Josh Hobbiger and Bastion and what she's doing at Henrietta Redd in the party line. She's one of those people to me that sets a standard of excellence. And I would also tell you that, like I said about Julia, we're so, I mean, we are super lucky. Not only is she super talented, she's like one of the nicest people in the world. She's one of the, again, the greatest people or the greatest person that you could meet both from a professional standpoint, but also from a personal standpoint.

01:01:15And when you find people like that, in my mind, like that's who I want to hang out with and work with and be with. And, you know, that is ultimately, I mean, we are so lucky that they choose to work with us and allow us to work with them. I mean, this is, these are folks that are, you know, whether we work together or not, I would be supporting everything they did because not only are they super talented, but like I said, they're just amazing humans that I like to surround myself with. Is there anybody that you've come across over the past 15 years that's been like one of those people that you didn't get that kind of got away or somebody that you were scouting that you really wanted to come work or be one of your chefs and want to do something different? Yeah, I think there's, you know, I think that there's several, I mean, Josh left us for a year and that was, and Trevor was supposed to leave us for a while. And I would tell you that there's no way that Julie, that Max and I were the first people that Julia pitched to work with on her restaurant or else she wouldn't have gotten that long without between moving to Nashville and opening up Penrita Red.

01:02:29So like, I think that there are a lot of those stories where it just sort of comes together naturally. There are other folks that, you know, you wish things had worked out with and they don't, but I wish they had and they're wildly successful and doing amazing things on their own. And so sometimes it's, you know, you're sort of lucky that it didn't work out for all those parties involved because I'm not sure that they would be doing as well with us sometimes. Yeah, that makes complete sense. So let's get to last weekend. Last weekend you opened Locust. You kind of did the friends and family weekend the weekend before. What is it like? So, I mean, you're obviously nimble. You can move on your toes and you can do, you're okay with change. You can make decisions. What's it like opening a restaurant during a pandemic?

01:03:31You know, the pandemic in general is just obviously for the industry. It's crushing. Every day is a new adventure is sort of what I tell people. Opening a restaurant during a pandemic is somewhat crazy. I mean, if you just sort of think about why would somebody open a restaurant right now, it probably doesn't make much sense. I think the reality for Locust and with Trevor is we were just too far down the road to not do it. We had so much time, money and resources invested into doing it that we had passed the point of no return. So we're going to plug forward. And so it makes things more complicated and more difficult. And you sort of have to maneuver around some original thoughts that we had for the restaurant that we hope we get back to in the near future. But for right now, I think that, you know, we're just playing the cards that were dealt and trying to do them as best we possibly can. Okay. I would say what are some of those things?

01:04:31But look, it's been a challenging time for everybody. And we had Tom Morales on the show this past week. He made a pretty, pretty big announcement last week that he was deciding to close Acme Feed and Seed pretty much based until the government can get its shit together and they can start holding people accountable because his staff is not safe. And he feels like he has to be, he has to police people and Yahoo's that are coming into a bar and they don't, they don't care about the staff and they don't care about his bar. All they care about is themselves. And as he said, their cerebral cortex isn't developed enough to really fully grasp the fact that this is a business and these are people and respect for what they're doing. You have, and this, I'm going to go back a little farther. You have the Downtown Sporting Club, which you made one of the biggest pivots pre-COVID.

01:05:37I think you shocked the entire world when you decided that you were going to shutter Paradise Park to create the Downtown Sporting Club. And then you brought Paradise Park back on the base floor. Tell me about the dynamic of Downtown right now and what Tom's decision to do that and what, what are your thoughts about that? I think, first of all, during this time, the attempt is, if you feel like you need to do something, you need to do that, right? I mean, I think for someone, we know them pretty well and understand all of the variables that he said. And it's a brutal time for the industry in general. So I would never second-guess or doubt that exactly what he is, what his decision-making process was, was 100% accurate. Like, they are really talented folks. I think that it raises the awareness of like, hey, this is, we need to work together to solve some of these problems or everyone is going to be going that route, right?

01:06:40Everyone's going to start closing down if the staff isn't safe and we can't keep respect going both ways and we can't get everyone pushing in the same direction. Then everyone's going to start closing because that is what they're going to be forced to do. We've been really lucky in a sense that we haven't really had those problems where people didn't respect our staff. We've had the vast majority of folks that we are engaging with at this point understand what we're doing and going through and they've been very receptive to it. There are situations that sort of break your heart and you're like, man, this is, this is just sad. Like, this shouldn't be as difficult to explain to you that we're just going to ask you to wear your mask. Like, this should not be that difficult. But those for us, we've been lucky. Those are pretty few and far between. Very nice. Do you think that that is because of something that you're doing specifically and intentionally? Are you informing the guests ahead of time that this is our standard, this is what we need to be doing and that they know walking in that this, this is what's going to happen when I'm in this building?

01:07:47And are other people being as responsible as you? Because I think it's been widely documented that there are people that believe this is a hoax and believe that after the election, this is going to go away. And it's not really that bad and you're killing my business, let's just open up who cares, that may be perpetuating a narrative that may be causing that? I understand what you're saying. I don't know if there's anything we're doing. I can tell you the way that we view it as a as a company. And I think that in early March, even before we were shut down, we sort of saw this thing coming. And so we had started internalizing plans. I don't think we anticipated getting shut down as fast as we we did. But once you're shut down, quite frankly, we dug in and we were like, oh, here's the new this is going to be the norm for a while. What can we do to stay in business and keep people working?

01:08:48And then B, how do we also at the same time make this as safe as possible? And what can we learn from other folks around the world that are dealing with this? Right. Because the U.S. wasn't the first country to deal with this, nor is the U.S. the only we're actually somewhat odd that if you look at a lot of other places around the world, they've dealt with other viruses and pandemics before SARS being one of them. And so the minute we sort of saw this coming to head is the minute that we put our heads down and started researching best practice from around the world and really went into, OK, how can we safely operate? And I don't know if we're doing very much differently or better or worse than others. But I do think that we are trying to do as much as we can. To be as safe as we possibly can. And I'll reference I'm getting to the thing on lower Broadway, which is where I think Tom's coming from. What I think we're probably one of the only places on lower Broadway that's that's giving temperature checks to every person that walks through the front door.

01:09:54So every employee, we're temperature checking every vendor, every delivery person and every guest. We are temperature checking. And there is a part of me that thinks there is a segment of the folks that just they're like, you're idiots. I'm not going to my temperature check. This is this is a hoax. So I'm just not going to go to your establishment. And if that is the filter there, we're perfectly fine with that. Right. But so maybe that is part of why we haven't dealt with it on the inside as much is because we're actually screening that even before we're actively engaging in them stepping foot into the building. Because if you don't believe in it and you don't think that it's a thing and you're going to make fun of people for wearing masks, a bar to drink cheap beer is probably not worth you wearing a mask and getting temperature checked on the way in. So we may be screening some of that out before even they step foot in the door. That makes complete sense. And I think that that's it is a good every time I walk in somewhere and they tempt me when I walk in the door, I feel warm and fuzzy.

01:10:57I don't get angry. I feel like, OK, good. They take this seriously that I feel like I'm going into a much safer environment just on that front end. It's almost like the hostess. When you walk in somewhere, if somebody greets you with enthusiasm, makes you feel welcome, the rest of your stay, you typically feel welcome. If you get a cold reception when you walk in, it sets the tone. And when you're getting your temperature taken when you walk in the door, it sets the tone for what kind of experience you're going to have, which typically is more safe. So that makes complete sense. Yeah. I mean, look, that's the one of the smallest things we can do. Right. What's the in my mind? And this is where we push. We want to be world class leading in this. Like, what's the most we could do? Like if I was just Josh from off the street, what would make me want to go to that hotel, eat in that restaurant, get on the airplane, do whatever it is? Well, in that case, if I could test you before you walked into my door and I knew that you were negative on the test. Yeah. So then I would feel great about having you in and the staff should feel great about having you in.

01:12:00And the other guests would feel like there's a safety net there and all these things like that is, you know, if we're going all the way down the rabbit hole about to me is like, that's how you do this. Like really, really well. You walk off Broadway and test everybody. Then once you get in, you get a wristband. Exactly right. Like that's that's world class. That's industry leading around the world. We're just asking you to check your temperature at the door. Like, that's not really a big deal. So, yeah, I agree with you. It makes me feel better. But it's it's for someone that doesn't want to do it. Like, that's not a heavy lift. That's not a big ask. So just you can probably go somewhere else. What's the biggest thing that you've learned throughout this? The pandemic and, you know, quarantine, all of this stuff. You can go back to yourself in March and give yourself one piece of advice with what you know now. What would it be? I think that it's going to be a marathon. That this that this is going to be a part of our lives for longer.

01:13:02And so make sure that you take your time to fully think through some of the things that you're trying to do. Because this will be around for a long time. And that is, you know, I think that in our minds where we are right now in March, if I said that in November we were going to be in potentially the worst spot of the trajectory of the pandemic, we wouldn't have programmed that out. Right. We sort of internally thought by the end of this year we would be back in, you know, operating as close to normal as we can. And I think the reality is like we probably should have carried that way forward way further out on the calendar. And then ultimately, I think that spending the time to do that and talking to people and really learning from what other people are going through is something that that I'm glad we did, but I wish we did more of. So let's just say today is Monday.

01:14:06You're going into a meeting after this with Max and your director of operations, general managers. What are you guys focusing on? We see that we see the cases spiking all over the country. Cities are starting to close down different mandatory. Hey, look, we're growing too fast. Fourteen days we're going to back off. Everybody stay at home. What are you guys talking about right now? What do you see 30 days, 60 days? What is your strategy going forward? Like, what's the thing you're working on tomorrow? Your innovation, your brain. What are you guys talking about? We are playing out many scenarios that way we were prepared for it. What we recognized on March 16th when we had to close or March 17th when we had to close was that we theoretically had a sense of what that would mean, but we didn't actually know all of those dominoes. And so we are one of the scenarios we're playing through right now in meetings and we spend we have these two hour pockets of time that we talk about is OK, if we're forced to close for whatever reason, what does that look like?

01:15:14And that's one of the paths we're going down. The other path we're going down is how do we make this safe, safer every single day? What can we do not only for guests, because quite frankly, they're coming in when they want to come in, but for the staff at every restaurant, how can we be as safe as possible and what procedures can we put in to be better today than we were yesterday? And then the other side of it is I firmly believe that it's probably going to get a little bit worse before it gets a little bit better and really try and figure out what that means, not only from the business side of it, but how do we make it as easy as you can over the course of the next 90 days to navigate this? Because being nimble and taking the lessons that we've learned from March and what that means, I think we're trying to make sure we put together really thoughtful plans for moving forward. I mean, there are decisions we made in March and April that we probably shouldn't have made.

01:16:16We were closed. We felt like we had to do something. We did something and it ended up just wasting time, money, resources and effort that we want to make sure that we are really focused on the things that we know can work and make a difference rather than spin our wheels like we did several months ago. What's one of those things that you did that you feel like wasn't worth the time or energy of the money that you spent? You know, I think we really spent time talking about delivery and how we're going to navigate a $13, $12 cheeseburger and fries. How are we going to get that to somebody's house? Because then you could keep cooks in. Are we going to hire our own delivery drivers? What's the platform we're going to use? I think that, you know, again, we have multiple restaurants that are all doing this. And so we ended up just sort of like this hodgepodge of stuff that just didn't really have a cohesive vision forward. And so I think that knowing that we'll have a much more systemized and systemic way to do a family plan or large format stuff to families or delivery.

01:17:27But just the way we did it in March and April was just not, it was not the product we wanted to put forth. So I think that's part of that mediocrity I was talking about before. And right now when you're a restaurateur out there and you're planning for what's going to happen, my own brand segment two weeks ago was to go in delivery. I recognize one of the restaurants I work with that their sales on two Sundays ago was 57 percent of their revenue was to go in delivery. And it is coming back as these cases spike and it gets darker earlier and it gets colder. Kids are in school. They're coming home. Parents are at work. They're coming home. They're going, I don't want to cook. I've been cooking for eight months and now to go isn't as mystified. You know, everybody's been doing it. It makes it so easy to go online and just order food. I feel like there's going to be this second wave of to go in delivery and shut down or not.

01:18:30I think that being intentional with what you're doing around that and doing it really well. I think the people that do it that kind of go, it's a pandemic. We're not going to do it very well. We have to do it. So we'll just do it. I think that's a huge miss. I think I wholeheartedly agree with you. Yeah. Being intentional and doing nothing with mediocrity and just killing it. It's that same kind of thing that if you focus on it, you put the plan together right now when this thing happens, if you're prepared and you can execute at a very high level, you're going to think you're going to be okay. I mean, I think that's Yeah. And I told, you know, when our meeting just the other day, we told him like, look, we hope all this exercise we're going through right now, we never use. We hope this is a waste of time. But if it's not a waste of time, we have to use it. We need to use it and make sure that we are world class at our delivery program moving forward, because what it was in March or April is embarrassing. So if we're going to do it, we got to commit to doing it. And that is everything, right? Like that's the vessels we're using to get stuff to people.

01:19:32That is to go cocktails. What does that mean? That is the labels and the reheating instructions. I mean, Julia at Henrietta Redd and she crushed it. I mean, I looked at her stuff and I was like, how did you pull this off so quickly? Like I was mesmerized. I was amazed by the product that she was able to put forth. I was not only like proud of her. I was like aghast at how amazing that they were in that. And then I looked at some of the stuff that we were doing in other restaurants and I was like, this is like, not only is it not good, it's kind of like embarrassing. Like I see the names ordering that's going to a friend, a friend of mine's house. Like, oh man, like we got to send it, but like I got to call him and apologize at the same time. And I just don't want to be put in that situation again. No. I mean, I think that that's part of what I was talking about, just that look into your brain as to what you're doing right now and really successful places that are innovative that really operate at a very high level are putting plans together right now, contingency plans that, hey, we need to be ready if this happens so that we don't do things in a mediocre way so that we get this thing going and we excel at a high level.

01:20:47So that that's what I was going for. Maybe just validation on my own thoughts. But no, I think you're 100% right. I mean, I think that if we sort of saw what worked before, you know, and I think we saw our weaknesses and we want to be proud of what we put forth, like I've said, and if we knew we were weak in certain areas and we sort of see we might be going back to it, shame on us if we do the same thing again. Like we got to get better at that. And so that is where and that's where I think a lot of folks don't really understand. I get asked all the time, like go to work early in the morning and my friends are like, what do you do at eight in the morning or 730 in the morning in the office? Like you serve dinner. And I'm like, all the planning that goes into that is happening well before anyone ever steps foot in a restaurant. And there are people that like they look at me like I'm insane for plotting forward, you know, what might happen in six weeks that we might be more focused on delivery.

01:21:50They're like, well, we'll deal with that if and when it happens. And I'm like, well, you're already going to be behind if you're planning on thinking about it, if and when it happens. In my mind, we're planning on it now and hoping we never have to use it because it was not fun to do. So, yeah, that's that's the validation. I agree wholeheartedly with exactly what you're saying. Well, good. Well, OK, so we've gone through all of your restaurants. I think I missed any. I mean, obviously we have a couple. LaSalle was a restaurant that you had to you closed. Happy to talk about that, but I want to kind of get into some more of you. I think we one of the things we haven't talked a lot about is you. We've talked about your businesses and on this show, I typically like to talk about people. And I want to learn more about some of the things you do when you're not at the helm of strategic hospitality. So you mentioned earlier, your wife, how long you've been married, what's you got children?

01:22:53What's what? I don't. Yeah, I got two kiddos, got an active house right now, got been married for nine years and got two kids. She this is actually I don't know if I should tell this story. She does PR and I met her right before Paradise Park was opening and she was assigned to write the opening press release for Paradise Park. And that's how I met her. So she did she come and interview you and you were like, wow, I went to their office and I was like, hey, what I had learned previously was I try not to make the same mistake twice. But when you go pull a building permit, it's public record. Someone will write about it and they just sometimes will botch what it is. And I knew that if it was called Paradise Park trailer resort, I could only imagine what was going to be written. So I was like, let's get ahead of this. So I met them today.

01:23:53Hey, I don't want anything formal. I just need to know what to say. Should somebody call? What does this look like? And so I met them at the office and that's how I met my wife. Wow. Did you did you know when you met her? Was it one of those moments we met her and you were like, you're you're the one? I mean, I know I think that she's beautiful and I think she's an amazing person. But I think and I think that we built an amazing relationship off of working together and we became good friends that way. And then ultimately, you know, you sort of I had to start professional, right? That's what you're supposed to do in these scenarios. And those emails start to get a little maybe flirtier than they probably should at the time. How did you propose to her? So went to I've got like a little hidden bar that I go to. Everyone knows it, but you can sort of hide away there called the Oak Bar, the Hermitage Hotel. I think the place is probably one of the most special place in the world. And it's also a place my grandparents used to go.

01:24:55So it's like got some sentimental reasons. So propose to her at the Oak Bar. I have Dee Patel, who's the managing director of the Hermitage Hotel on the show tomorrow for an election day special. Oh, awesome. I think the world of her and I think the world of the hotel and it's just one of those classic Nashville places that is just special and holds it holds a sort of special place in our hearts for sure. So you propose to her in the Oak Bar in the bathroom outside the Oak Bar? It was in the bathroom. No, I'm just joking. The bathroom is pretty spectacular. But the bathrooms amazing. Yeah, I mean, I got in a lot of trouble because we got married outside at War Memorial. And obviously, my groomsmen and I went to the Oak Bar before the wedding and we're, you know, maybe having some drinks. And the photographer for the wedding, that's when she was supposed to be taking our pictures. And I'm not joking.

01:25:55Every single one of our photos is in the bathroom at the Hermitage Hotel. And because my wife wasn't with us, she has no idea what was going down. And she gets the photos back and she's like, what the hell did you guys have tried? And we're like, well, we A, did try B, we had drinks and C, isn't that the photographer's job to tell us what we should be doing? Not just like in the bathroom taking photos of us posing. But yeah, so every one of our groomsmen photos are in the bathroom there. So if you don't know, we're talking about outside of the Oak Bar. The Oak Bar at the Hermitage Hotel is a very cool green and black fashioned bath. Anybody can go in there. It's like a men's restroom. But like they do tours of anybody can go in and check it out. It's really neat and a lot of music videos. It's been in his it's been in Benjamin's groomsmen photos. A lot of famous things. So it's beautiful. Married nine years. Yep. You've got how many children? Two, six and three.

01:26:58You said six and three. Yeah, I have I have a five and seven. So we're OK, pretty close there on on that. Yeah, yeah. How's that? How's that been throughout the pandemic just with them and the whole thing? If you got to spend more time with them than you ever thought you could. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I think in the you know, we've tried to stay in touch with everyone and V, I think I told you like every single video conference platform you can imagine. I've been on in the past, you know, six, seven months. But when it first started and everyone was at school and home and all that stuff, I mean, my kids were stars of these videos. They'd be sitting on my lap or running around in towels before bath or whatever it looks like. Yeah, they I get I it was you know, I think that was the positive that came out of it was was that. And then I think that, you know, I think that being able to spend time with them without distraction in a lot of ways was has been has been really nice.

01:28:03I want to do some rapid fire questions. And I have one question I forgot to ask you that I wanted to ask you. Maybe I kind of roundabout asked you about the pandemic, but. Mistakes, we all make mistakes. You probably strike me as somebody who appreciates making mistakes because you get to feel what it feels like to make a mistake. And like anybody who's a leader, you almost want to make mistakes because you get to really learn from those things. And that's how you learn most of the time. What's what's probably the biggest mistake that you've made throughout all these years of strategic hospitality? And what did you learn from it? Oh, I mean, I mean, there are a lot of mistakes. I mean, I think that. Is there one that like sticks out? Yeah, I think there's a recurring one. And I think that it always irks me because I can look back at those little things.

01:29:03I'm like, man, I can't believe I did that again or I can't believe I adjusted. I think I referenced it a while ago, which is why I don't read reviews. But it's also, you know, I'm in the restaurants a lot. I mean, it's not this is not like something where I live somewhere else. Like I'm in the restaurants frequently. I'm talking to the guests and the and the staff frequently. And the thing that I still do and it's hard to to to not do is when you hear someone say this isn't good or I don't like this and you start adjusting and losing the true vision of what something was, that is a mistake that that ends up causing a lot of heartburn for a lot of reasons. And I think that that is something that I still try and try and get better at each and every day is really try and stay true to what the thought process was in the very beginning of why we opened up a restaurant or what our thoughts are on on why we're going in this direction versus another. But that is a that is for sure a constant mistake that I try and learn from.

01:30:08Really just so believing in yourself and believing in your ideas and your vision and sticking to it and not letting it just gets watered down. If you start compromising on every single thing. And when I say compromise, I'm not saying like, oh, it's with the people that work in the restaurant or it's the people. It is just the constant like if someone doesn't like a menu item, it doesn't mean it's a bad menu item. It just means it's not for them. We can find something else they might like. But that menu item is going to be like, oh, my God, there's a major catastrophe on X, Y or Z. And then all of a sudden you start wavering and you're unable to commit to what that thought process was. That's a problem. And that is, you know, Max and I have we constantly talk about that. Like, is it a real problem or is it a problem in our heads? And then the real problems we obviously need to fix and want to find ways to fix. But the stuff where you sort of lose sight of what the original intent was.

01:31:08And I think going back to the catbird seat, like that's a restaurant you can't compromise on. Either that was going to work or not work. And if we started compromising on the food or the comments we heard back on the food, it wouldn't be the catbird seat, right? Like, you know, one of the things that Eric, who was Josh, Josh's co-chef up there, which that he served was he had a pigeon course on the menu and the pigeon course came claw on. And, you know, that was jarring for 50 percent of the guests. I bet. And, you know, it's funny, we have a system and the number of pigeon allergies that exist in that system, I find so funny because like that's not an allergy, but they just didn't want to be served pigeon with the claw on. So that was their work around. They have a pigeon allergy. Yeah, exactly. Squab allergy. But I think if we start compromising on that, then what else are we going to compromise on? How that product gets diluted down to something that isn't special anymore. That's just an example of one that, you know, that's how it can start going haywire.

01:32:09Gets diluted down to meatloaf. Exactly right. Like, no, it's a pigeon with a claw on it. Damn it. Let's do it. All right. What is rapid fire kind of questions? What is your favorite restaurant outside of a strategic hospitality restaurant? And you can go by neighborhood if you want, but like in Nashville? City House. All right. Favorite? Ann Arnold's. OK, well, I mean, that should be a given, right? Yeah, I agree. That's why. City House is our go to. City House is the go to. Favorite movie of all time? You can go drama and comedy if you want, because those are hard to delineate. Favorite movie? That's not a rapid fire question. I got to go all the way back through the, you know, I'm going to go like Shawshank Redemption or something like that. Well, that's my answer when people ask me that question.

01:33:09Really? OK. Oh, that's a good one, too. I was just joking about that movie with Trevor yesterday, so that's good. The classic absolute classic favorite band or musician. Oh, I'm going to go. I mean, I'm going to use this for sentimental reasons, but I'm going to go Rolling Stones on fan just because it's been part of our family forever. Our mom is a diehard Rolling Stones fan. Now, what does your mom do? Because my dad knows your mom, like my dad is your mom. Oh, really? Yes. OK. And I don't know. What is your mom? Who is your mom? So my mom has referenced a lot. Yeah, she's awesome. She grew up here. So, you know, she's been here forever, so she tends to know a lot of folks. She currently works with Jim Cooper on some, you know, prison reform work that they've been doing on that side of it. Previously, she was with the Conservancy for Centennial Park.

01:34:10So she was helping raise money for the remodel of Parthenon of the Parthenon Park and Centennial Park and all of that sort of stuff. So she's been doing that for a long, long, long time. Does she work with musicians corner at all? She does. Yes. So she her and John Tuminello really started that and kicked that off. And that's John's show. But she was heavily involved in the very beginning, for sure. OK. I don't know what it is. My dad was the president of the Gospel Music Association for years. Oh, cool. OK. And he used to go to that all the time. And he's a yeah, he was on Leadership Nashville and Leadership Music and all these. He's been a part of those things. I think that's how he knows your mom. I don't know. I didn't know what your mom did. That's a great event. Musicians Corner is awesome. It's a really cool thing Nashville does. What do you think the best event like the best Nashville festival is? Is it Live on the Green? Is it the Nashville Food and Wine Festival?

01:35:10Is it Musicians Corner? Is there one that's your favorite? People make fun of me. Yeah, I think that I think CMA Fest is like one of the most special things the city does. Why would people make fun of you for that? Because that's not what someone that lives here is supposed to say. But I believe that the fact that you have all of these people coming to Nashville to experience Nashville as a whole is one of the coolest things any city does. I mean, forget just Nashville. But you have 100,000 people converging on a city because they're diehard country music fans and they want to experience all they can of one particular city in Nashville. That's pretty special. And, you know, yeah, you're not I'm not supposed to say that. But I've met some of the coolest people in the world through through hanging out down there and getting to know folks. So one of the things I did previous to COVID was on the weekends, I would go drive Uber because my dad is retired. And one day we're sitting out by his pool and we're talking.

01:36:12He goes, So I started driving Uber. And I went, What? He goes, Yeah, you know, I'm bored and I like talking to people. And I've got a Tahoe. So I'm going to do it. He goes, And I'm going to tell you, it's one of the funnest things I've ever done. And I started cracking up and I was like, I so want to do that. Like I want to do that so bad. So I had a couple of heart surgeries a couple of years ago and we had all these medical. It's nothing. It's just not a high state heart. There's an ablation. I had atrial fibrillation. Anyway, good to go now. But I had these heart surgeries and I had these mounting bills from this thing. And I told my wife, I said, Hey, I think I want to go drive Uber and I'll pay off these bills. And she goes, No, I don't want you doing that. And I'm like, Come on, you won't have to budge anything. I'll just do this and I'll pay him off. And she was like, Oh, OK. So I've got to go drive. I go Saturday and Sunday mornings. I'll ever drove Saturday and Sunday mornings. I didn't do any late night or any of that kind of stuff. But I will tell you during CMA Fest is one of the funnest things I've done is drive people around because I'm a total Nashville homer.

01:37:18And I know a lot about the restaurants in town and I've been in a lot of them like. And so driving people, picking people from the airport who are coming into town for this, the level of excitement that they have just to be in Nashville. Is one of the coolest things that I feel like just to be an ambassador for the city, being in a car, being like, Man, you live here. What's it like living here and just being able to talk to them with enthusiasm and tell them where to go and what to do. And, you know, I love driving people around Centennial Park. They're like, Have you guys what should we do? We're here. Have you seen the Parthenon? They go, What's the Parthenon? I go, Oh, my God, you guys have five minutes. I'm going to go drive you around the loop. And they're just their faces going. That's that's amazing. Look at that thing, man. And some of those moments of being in the car with people coming to Nashville for the first time. There's some of the most special things. It's my favorite hobby. Some of the favorite things I do. I agree. I mean, Max and I, I agree completely. Max and I have seen kids grow up, you know, 12, 13, 14 years.

01:38:24They've the same families come to the restaurants during CMA Fest. And so we've watched these families grow up. It is it is so cool. And so I think that it's I think it's a super special thing for a lot of reasons. But I think that, you know, to me, the fact that whatever is happening in Nashville is special. These people will pick their life up, take a vacation specifically during this one week a year to come to a city and hang out and experience it. Like, that's a special thing. I don't care what city around the world you're talking about. That's a special thing. That's a special thing. And so it is it's probably one of my favorites. On a side note, Max and I's dad retired, got super bored, moved to Florida and works at the Apple Store. So I know all about those weird second job. We talked to him. We're like, Dad, what are you doing? He's going to play dodgeball. And we're like, wait, what? The Apple Store is together playing dodgeball. I love it. Yeah, that's that's that's his thing. Like, he's like, no, I love it. He always has stories.

01:39:24There's always some person he picked up or something weird or somebody. And I've you know, I've picked up some interesting people. I got lots of stories. I could do a whole podcast on the people I've picked up. I'll interview you next time. We'll do an Uber episode. I'll interview you. Hey, it would be quite interesting. All right. My rapid fire was real quick. Just a couple of personal questions. Just kind of like what what do you like to do? What are your hobbies when you're not in the restaurant? What are you typically doing hanging out with family? Yeah, for sure. 100 percent. And that's I mean, I think that's the question I get asked all the time. Like, how do I balance crazy restaurant world with family stuff? And I sometimes I'm better than others. But if I'm not working, I'm spending time with the fam and especially the kiddos. And I want to be completely dedicated to that. So without a doubt, that's it. It used to be, you know, a lot of travel and food and experiencing and all that stuff. But especially now with the pandemic and all that, that makes it way more difficult, but especially want to spend time with the family.

01:40:27Well, I don't know how to thank you enough. We're on here for an hour, an hour and a half plus. And I feel like I've just got to the surface of kind of the back story through all of the restaurants, what you're doing. I've always been an amazing, just a huge fan of everything that you're doing as somebody who absolutely loves the city of Nashville, loves the hospitality business. I'm drawn to leaders. I'm drawn to innovators and people. And I just want to study them and kind of ask the questions because I love the way people's brains work. And I just don't know how to say thank you enough for coming on the show today and just talking with me for so long about everything that you've done. I have like 40 more questions. There's not a lot of, you don't do a lot of interviews. No, I don't. Like I said, I love what you've been doing. I mean, this is, I love what you do and I think it's so personal and so personable and I enjoy this.

01:41:29So thank you for having me. Happy to come back. We can shoot the other 40 questions whenever you want. But truly thank you and congrats on everything that you've got going on because I've been listening and I know a lot of other folks are. So it's it's been a fun edition during this time for sure. I hope it keeps going for a long time. I intend to. It's been something that people have asked me. They have such a podcast. It's good or they like it or whatever. But it's been really cathartic for me. I mean, you know, as we go through this time, we're all alone. I've been able to connect on a deeper level with more people than I think I ever would. You get into kind of your own little circle and I've branched out through every neighborhood in this entire city and spoke to so many people and just kind of listen to what their stories are and what they've gone through. And my goal is hopefully somebody who's sitting at home alone who thought they were alone or going through something that was scary and that they were alone. Got to hear somebody else and go, hey, look, other people feel the same way I do.

01:42:29Everything's going to be OK. And I know we got to run. And first of all, that's awesome. I know we got to run. But I will tell you that one of the things that Max and I will say and is 100 percent true is and why I think your show is so cool. Nashville is like one of the most supportive cities we've ever been to anywhere in the world. I mean, that's why I think what specifically the restaurant and bar business in this city, that is why I think it's had such a progression over the past 10, 15, 20, whatever you want to say years because it's so supportive. And this show, this is part of it, right? So all these different folks in this industry coming together. I mean, that is Max and I wholeheartedly, firmly believe that that is that what's happening in Nashville during this moment in time outside of the pandemic is like special no matter where you put it in the world. And so, you know, stoked to be a part of it. And thanks for letting me hang with you. Well, the final thing I do with every guest is I open the floor and I say, take us out. Whatever you want to say, anything, nothing's, you know, whatever you want to say, the floor is yours.

01:43:35And then we will let you let you in the show. Whatever you want to say. I think I would just say thanks for honestly, thank you for letting me hang out with you. Like, I mean, you referenced that I don't do a lot of this stuff, but I'm I really like the way that your stuff comes across. And it's not just a constant barrage of normal interview questions that typically people will give and get. And so I think that, you know, thanks for letting me hang out. Also, I think that just in general, I think that what we have as a city is so truly special. I hope it continues for many, many, many years to come. So please stay in touch. Come hang out whenever you want. Reach out and hopefully I'll see you soon. Thank you. Thank you, Benjamin Goldberg. You're a you're an inspiration, man. Thanks for everything that you do as well. Thanks. Talk to you soon. Thanks, man. All right. There it is. Benjamin Goldberg. Thank you so much again for stopping by here at Nashville Restaurant Radio.

01:44:37I hope that you enjoyed that interview. I'd love to know what you think. Find the post that we talk about it on social media. Let us know on Anchor. You can leave us a thumbs up. You can go to any of our podcast area and hit subscribe. You can watch this video on YouTube. And we just thank you so much for listening. And we hope that you are being safe out there. Love you guys. Bye.