Billy Kramer

00:00Hey, this is Jen Heidinger Kendrick, founder of Giving Kitchen. Let me tell you a little more. Giving Kitchen is a James Beard award-winning nonprofit that provides emergency assistance to food service workers nationally. Headquartered in Atlanta since 2013, Giving Kitchen has served over 19,000 food service workers and awarded over $12 million to food service workers in crisis. Want to get involved and support Giving Kitchen? During Dining with Gratitude in October, Giving Kitchen's month-long campaign, where the food service community pledges to raise critical funds and spread the word about Giving Kitchen's mission. Learn more by clicking the link in this episode's notes, givingkitchen.org slash DWG. We're listening to Atlanta Restaurant Radio.

01:00Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hey everybody, it is Brandon Styll and welcome to Atlanta Restaurant Radio. And we are powered by Gordon Food Service. All right, wow, this is amazing. Atlanta Restaurant Radio, first episode ever. This is so much fun. Today we're going to be talking with Billy Kramer and Billy is the owner at NFA Burger. Not Foolin' Around Burger, that is what they stand for and this is going to be the first of many, many amazing episodes. We're going to be talking about the Atlanta Restaurant community, the people that make it happen. We're going to share their stories. We started this podcast in Nashville almost five years ago to share the stories of others in the industry, what they're going through. I was in food sales for many, many years.

02:02I used to run company, 15 years I was in food sales leadership and I was in so many restaurants. And when I was in these restaurants, I realized that I got to, I had the luxury of seeing what so many different chefs did and what so many other restaurateurs did. I had this unique perspective and I realized that you're an independently owned and operated chef restaurateur. You spend all of your time within the four walls of your building. You don't necessarily know what everybody else is doing. So that's what this podcast is. It is going to be all of us sharing best practices, what we do, how we do it. If you're in Atlanta and you're listening this for the first time and you want to learn more about what the Nashville chefs are doing, we have it Nashville Restaurant Radio. We've got 385 episodes out there right now. You can catch up with all of the things, learn about our format, learn about what we are doing. And you're going to learn a lot more today as we talk to Billy Kramer. And this is an amazing function that we're doing this first full month for the Giving Kitchen.

03:03The Giving Kitchen is amazing organization. They're based right there in Atlanta and they work in Nashville and Charlotte and across the country to help restaurant workers. And I was having a conversation. One of the things that we do on this show is we have sponsors. And one of our sponsors is Robins Insurance. And these guys at Robins, they are the insurance company for restaurants. They focus on this. They're absolutely amazing. We use them. I am the director of operations for three restaurants here in Nashville. And they're amazing. And so I have here live in studio today, Matthew Clements, who is a partner at Robins Insurance. What's up, Matthew? How are you? Thanks for having me. I'm wonderful. This is the inaugural Atlanta Restaurant Radio. Awesome. And you guys sell insurance in Atlanta. We sure do. We do. We are licensed in all 50 states. Just kind of depends on the care relationships that we have. But Atlanta is a target for us. That's who we want to be working with those restaurants in and around Atlanta.

04:04How many restaurants do you work with in general here in Nashville, per se? 300 plus hospitality related businesses. Wow. So you guys are the go to here in Nashville. If you are a restaurant and you need somebody who understands how restaurants work in the interest of restaurants, you guys are the ones to call. I certainly feel that way. You know, we're a niche driven insurance agency, meaning that we can do everything from soup to nuts. However, we try to focus specifically on different areas that we have expertise in. One of those being the hospitality industry. I have a background in the hospitality industry. I worked at a Greek restaurant growing up. You know, I was making all sorts of different things. Cash register to cook to salad line. It just kind of depended. And then I went and worked with Nestle right at an undergraduate for a little bit. And then when I moved to Nashville, I worked with Gordon Food Service as a customer development specialist. Fancy word for sales and sold food to restaurants and wanted to make a shift, but still wanted to work in some capacity within the hospitality space.

05:09I actually met with some mentors of mine and it led me to insurance. And so I was going to different agencies trying to figure out where my fit was. Robbins was looking for someone to pick up the mantle of the hospitality specialist and it was the perfect fit. Very much a blessing. And I have kind of taken that role and run with it and really grown the hospitality practice. Well, I met you through another friend and then you work with my three restaurants. And I will tell you, it's one of those, it's kind of an afterthought. It's one of those things that you have to have. It's like a dish machine and chemical or CO2. Like it's a line item on a P&L that is there. But if you don't have the right insurance, you don't have the right person. Like sleeping at night can be hard because stuff happens every single day. We were talking this morning, I had a pretty significant claim at one of my restaurants a couple of years ago. And I asked you, I said, whatever happened with that? Like there was a settlement, you don't know the number, but you said there was a settlement, but you didn't have to deal with it.

06:13And I said, I didn't have to deal with it really at all. And he goes, that's what we love to do. We love it when things happen. You have one phone call and it's not, every time I call you, it's not an 800 number. I don't have to call an 800 number and then hit four and then wait on hold for another seven minutes and have somebody say, what's your account number? And I go, oh, I don't know what my account number is. What's your at? Do you have verification? We're going to call you back. And it's like, you have no idea, I'm just a number to you. But when I call you, you go, what's up, Brandon? And I go, hey, at this restaurant, I need this. You go, I'm on it, done. That's our goal. We've really developed a team around it as well. I have a full team dedicated to this practice, working with restaurants, bars, caterers, anything that kind of can touch the hospitality industry or food and beverage in some way should perform as our forte. And so, you know, if I'm in a meeting or if I'm doing an interview with Brandon Styll, Nashville Restaurant Radio or Atlanta Restaurant Radio, you've got a team sitting there ready who knows your name and knows your business as well.

07:14And our goal really is to, we don't want you guys to be the insurance professionals. We want to, you know, educate you as much as you'd like to be involved and kind of make sure that you have the ability to sleep well at night because at the end of the day, you're paying for peace of mind to know that you're safe, you're in good hands and that you have a policy to ensure your business appropriately. Not all insurance policies are created equal and they need to be specific to your industry, but more specific to your business. And so that's the key. So what the call, there's going to be a call to action after this conversation. I got so excited having breakfast with you this morning. We were talking about the giving kitchen, how much we love the giving kitchen. So if you're listening to this right now and you're like, damn, I need an insurance guide that's like that, like this is, I want to call Matthew. I want to learn what he's doing because I use some company online and if I ever do anything, I have to go through the rigmarole of dialing an 800 number then waiting and then feeling like a number.

08:14If you want to get a quote, here's the deal. You're going to donate a hundred dollars every single time somebody calls just to get a quote from you for the next 30 days. So we're doing a summer of giving here. We want to really build up the giving kitchen. We want to help restaurant workers. And I said, will you donate if somebody uses the code Brandon? So all they have to do is call you and say, Hey man, I heard you on Atlanta restaurant radio or Nashville restaurant radio. And I'd like to get a quote that instantly unlocks. Cool. We're going to donate a hundred dollars to the giving kitchen in your name. Like this is what we're going to do. And then you get a quote. Maybe you can save some money, but one thing's for sure. You will never get better service out of your insurance company than when you move to Robin's insurance. Appreciate that Brandon. Yeah. The giving kitchen is, you know, something that I think I hold close to my heart. They care about people. The reason I got into this, my industry is because I care about people. I'd like to think I have a servant heart and I was trying to find a way to just connect with people and assist people and safeguard their businesses.

09:18And that's what led me to this industry. And I think there's some similarities or some synergy between, you know, the reason I got into my industry and the giving kitchen as a whole. And so we're excited to be a part of this time of giving. How do people call you? What's the best number for me to call and talk to you and ask to give you that code word to unlock the donation? Call my cell phone. Area code 863-409-9372. I look forward to hearing from anyone. And if there's any way I can assist you, I look forward to it. So people just call your cell phone. Give us that cell. Go get a pen and paper right now or press pause on this podcast. Get a pen and paper and then, Matthew, tell me your phone number one more time. This is your cell phone number. This is my cell phone. Area code 863-409-9372. Okay. Excellent. Hey, everybody, this shows don't typically open like this. We do an intro. We kind of talk about what's happening in the world. Anything that's going on. It is a quicker style intro. And today we had Matthew and I thought, man, what a great opportunity to really introduce Matthew to a whole new market as well as everybody in Nashville.

10:23We've been doing ads for you for years. Love partnering with Robin's insurance. And now you are opening up to Atlanta and hopefully if you're in Atlanta and you need a good insurance solution, you got a guy, his name is Matthew Clements. Thank you for joining us today. Thanks for having me. All right. So there we go. That is not typical that we start shows off that way. But I just thought, man, what a great opportunity today. It is so nice to meet all of you who are listening for the first time. And we really hope that you enjoy this conversation with Billy Kramer from NFA Burger. We are joined with Billy Kramer. Billy is the owner at the NFA Burger. How you doing, man? I'm good, man. It is. Is it as hot in Nashville as it is in Atlanta? Yes. It's like 95 degrees today. It was like 92, 93, pending what side of hell you're on.

11:27But yes, it's hot as hell. As hot as hell this weekend, it's going to get even hotter next weekend. I will be in, I'll be, I will not be here. You're going to be out of the country. You're not going to say where I'm going. Well, technically out of the country, but you know, I don't know if Canada is, I mean, it's another country, but it's not like I'm going global or something. Well let's let people in. Welcome. This is the first time I'm ever going to say this and I'm pretty excited about saying this. Welcome to Atlanta Restaurant Radio. Well thank you for having us. And we're glad you came down all the way, you know, three and a half hours down the road to help us start what we hope will become a pretty awesome group of restaurant owners and chefs and people in the restaurant community coming together to promote each other and talk about what happens here in Atlanta. Share your stories, build up, you know. When I started Nashville Restaurant Radio, I was in food sales for 15 years and I've been in all these different restaurants and all these different places. And it boggled my mind how many chefs don't talk about what they're doing, how they're doing it.

12:33And then you tend to live in your four walls on an island and one of the things we've tried to do in Nashville was just share so many stories and best practices and chefs. The number one feedback I get is I had no idea that other people were going through the same things that we were going through. And so I met you at we are both big supporters of the Giving Kitchen. I got my pen on. Nice. Look at you. The Giving Kitchen pen. I have stuff behind me that says Giving Kitchen. You know, that's right. All my stuff is not in this room right now. Not wearing it right now. Looking for stuff. Well, I've got hats all over the house and well we and you have the I wear the GV KN hat all the time. It's my favorite hat. There you go. You are welcome. So we did a Tennessee Tasting big team, Heidi, every single year. You were at that this past year. I was at that this past year. Nashville does something similar is not as big. We are building it. We're trying. It's called the Tennessee Tasting. And I was the emcee for the event. I've hosted Nashville Restaurant Radio for almost five years.

13:35And one of the prizes, I guess, one of the auction items was you get to be the host of Nashville Restaurant Radio for the day and you get to interview Andrew Zimmern, who was going to be the was going to be the I got to tell the story. This is can I tell the whole story of the Andrew Zimmern story? Because this will lead into your burger event as well. Yeah, sure. So I wanted to do this, this bidding for this. I wanted to raise some money and hey, look, if you can come be the podcast host, let's do it. And so I was at Team Heidi and Andrew Zimmern was there and I thought, hey, I would love to get him to be the person. I've got to draw to have Andrew Zimmern be the person I'm pulling up. I'm pulling up this picture, by the way. OK, good. I love this. And I want to make sure we have the picture while you're talking. So there's a little buzz. Hey, there's an after party after Team Heidi. It's at Super Rica. Awesome. So I go with a bunch of the giving kids, we would go over to Super Rica and there is Andrew Zimmern standing there and he's talking to this guy and I'm like, I got to go over and talk to him.

14:38I got to ask him and more people are starting to show up at this thing. And in my brain, I'm thinking, I got to go shoot my shot. I just going to walk up to him and I walked up to him. He was talking to this guy and I said, excuse me, I'm so sorry, Andrew, you know, we and I said, I love your Jordans. He's wearing Jordans. I'm a big shoe guy. So we were you guys are both shoe people. We're both shoe people. And so ironically, of the three of us, I'm the only one who's ever worked in the shoe industry. You're the two shoe people. Maybe that's why we like shoes. Yeah, so I talked to him about it. I said, hey, will you do the show? He said, yes, anything, no problem done. And then I go away. And then I go back to whatever I leave him alone and I go do my thing. And and so fast forward to the actual Tennessee tasting event and the bid goes out and you, my friend, were one of the people who bid it and you won the bid with another woman. I did. We did two of them. So we did you and another woman. And so we fast forward. If you can see, you can't see the picture of the pictures on the screen, you'll be able to see if you're on YouTube, I'm going to put this out on YouTube.

15:44It's fine. You'll be able to see it on YouTube. So go to YouTube and find this video, but to see the actual picture, I'll probably post the picture with the ad on Instagram for this post, but it's OK. So I meet you after the event and I walk up and I said, hey, man, I'm so nice to meet you and it's going to be great. I get to interview Andrew Zimmern because, you know, I met Andrew Zimmern. And I said, really? I go, when did you meet him? He goes, well, I was at Team Heidi and after Team Heidi, we went to Super Rica and I was talking to him and bless his heart. Some guy came over to try and rescue him, to try and get him away from me, but I was just talking to him and this poor guy just, he was only there for a minute and I was like, which guy was this? And he goes, I don't know. We took a picture together and so I said, pull that picture up and there it was me. It was me and you and you were the guy who was talking to Andrew Zimmern when I came over and did that. Total full circle moment. You'll hear there's some future podcasts. Just poor Andrew, just me talking his ear off because that's kind of how I got involved in the restaurant industry is that I would go eat burgers at restaurants and then if I could talk to the chef, I would do it.

16:52And I always thought like, and it didn't even matter like what business I was ever in. If you're the CEO of something or you're the top of something, I just want to ask you a bunch of questions. Yeah. You're just very curious. So I thought Andrew had like a handler or like a helper assistant of some kind. I thought like any, I got to just keep talking because any second he's just going to get somebody who's going to yank him away from me and it just never happened and I felt so bad for Andrew. But foreshadowing, we got some good out of it. So we'll talk about that in a little bit. And the best dude. So I asked him for that thing. What were you, what were you asking him when you were talking about one of the things you got? I had, I like to ask questions to like, I like to ask a certain question. It's like a variation. So the question I asked him was what's the worst food? What's the food that you thought was going to be really good that turned out to be the worst food you ever tasted? And the opposite. Like what's the one you thought was just going to be disgusting that you really love?

17:54And so he actually had the answers. He didn't even, he didn't even hesitate. He's like, oh, durian, which it turns out is a really foul smelling fruit. It's an Indian fruit. I had actually had it about two months after at the national restaurant show. Is it good? So I actually gave it a shot. I was like, oh, it's at this booth. I'll try it. Why not? Just because if Andrew tried it, I'll try it. I'm not going to try everything. Andrew tries. That guy eats bugs. Or has eaten bugs. Did you eat any of the cicadas when they were here? Did not. Not my thing, man. You'd have to call it fried chicken and blindfold me. Yeah, something like that. So durian was the fruit that it was the food that he's like, it was just the most disgusting thing he'd ever touched. And I said, well, what's the, you know, if a fruit is the grossest thing you've ever had, like what's the other thing? And he said, goat intestine, fried goat intestine was his actual surprise shock. Delicious thing.

18:54Delicious thing. And he decided he was trying to describe it to me and I'm not I'm a I get queasy pretty fast. That's actually how he could have gotten away from talking about any of the things he's ever eaten. I just would have walked away. I that's what I was talking to. But then I the real reason I wanted to talk to him was about the burger benefit, which we can talk about later in detail. But it's a charity event I started last year and I was kind enough to be joined by John Ben Hayes from Savannah, who's also a huge giving kitchen supporter. And I wanted to ask Andrew to be a part of it in some way. So that was my real ask. And the funnier thing was all my friends who were there with me who had helped me all at Team Heidi, not one of them would come up and interrupt our conversation because they didn't they didn't want to get in the way of me getting my ask in, which was, can you be part of the burger benefit? And you were the one who came up. So they're all sitting in the corner watching me and then you just walk up like, who's that asshole?

19:56Yeah. They're like, who's that guy? He just bow guarded the conversation that was for the same reason. It was for the same reason. Yeah. Exact same reason. It's all for the giving kitchen. It's all for the giving kitchen. Hundred percent. So you you mentioned you're in the food. You're in the shoe industry. You haven't. So we we so what we ended up doing, you said, hey, look, I'm from Atlanta. And I said, amazing. Why don't I come down to Atlanta? I've wanted to do some stuff in Atlanta. People in Nashville love Atlanta and I've wanted to expand this thing. And after talking with you and then coming to Atlanta and I'm, you know, friends with Ford Fry and there's some other people here in town. I thought, you know what? This is the time to start Atlanta restaurant radio. So we're going to do it. So I came down to Atlanta and we did like four interviews while we're there, maybe three. We went to the giving kitchen's headquarters. We turned. For four interviews. So yes, we had Chris Hall. We did. What's that? From unsec.

20:56From unsec. Okay. Right. Yes. We did. Jen Heidinger Kendrick in her office. We turned her office into a studio and we were at the Distillery of Modern Art where we interviewed Matt, Matt, Matt Greif, Matt Greif, who is the master distiller, master of spirits. I like to call them. And then we had Charlie Agualo. Argello. Argello. I said it right. You said it right. I said it wrong. So we met Charlie and I tried to pronounce his last. He's from the East 48th street market. And we tried to, when we, we asked him and he said, it's a jollo, a jello. And then we went to his restaurant afterwards and five people said his name five different ways. Hold on. They're all Argello's. They're all in the family is the funny part. They're all in the family. His entire family is a crazy thing. You mispronounce it. You've met the guy for, you know, an hour. I've known the guy for like 20 plus years and I should be able to say, but I don't know that anybody ever said it in front of me.

21:59So I don't know. I have a reason. I just read it, read it on paper. I think I just thought that's how you say that. So the first four episodes we have here are first five, the whole month of July, even in Nashville, we're turning Nashville restaurant radio into Atlanta restaurant radio for the whole month of July. And then we've started Atlanta restaurant radio there in Atlanta. So you now have an Instagram page, go to Atlanta underscore restaurant, underscore radio, follow us. We're putting stuff out there and we're going, we're going to be having some guest hosts come in and do shows after the first month. We've got some pretty cool people lined up and I'm excited to start learning more about the Atlanta food scene. But coming out there, Chris Hall was one that was just a fun interview. That dude is a straight shooter and has some amazing stories. Yeah. And that's just what you heard on, on the podcast. That's not, you know, there's probably a million stories that are way not fit for a brandy podcast, but he's got his, what's fun is that, uh, that guy has helped raise millions and millions of dollars for charities.

23:07It's phenomenal. And a lot of it goes on, um, on notice or at least to the, you know, to the masses. I mean, the people who are in the know and appreciate it, but I think there's something to be said for supporting restaurants where they have leadership that is that involved in the community. Um, and so it's just great to have Chris there and he's been a, uh, if you go on my cell phone, I will call you and ask you for questions about the restaurant industry. That's just the, that's just the rule. And he will answer the call every time or send it, at least send a text back and it's, um, him and all the other guys that, uh, his partners, Ryan Turner, Todd Mossman. Uh, so Chris was awesome. Chris was awesome. And then Charlie, um, the kindest he gets, he's been married for 63 years. I think he said his whole family works the East 48th street market. And then we went there for lunch and that was just a amazing story and meeting his entire family and his grandson came and sat down and had lunch with us.

24:08And like, it was, it was, and it's such a big city just to sit down in this small little market. And it was like, you could have been in the smallest town in the world and everybody knew each other. It was beautiful. It was like everything that a local restaurant should be. Yeah, no, it's, uh, it's about two miles from my house and, um, I go there once or twice a week and, uh, and you wanted to share the story. Yeah, I mean, he's well, you know, one of again, I will ask you questions if you, if you own or run something, I just will. And so even before I own thought of owning a restaurant, I was always fascinated because Charlie walks around and does inventory. And when the new, he brought in the wine dispenser, um, and he's so, he loves wine. So he's the curator of all the wine and he would go to Italy on these family vacations and then come back with olive oil that he picked or that he thinks is amazing. And I always thought it was very, um, I, I wasn't really a huge, I'm not really a huge fan of most of the things in the market.

25:15Like I like the sandwiches and the meats, but I don't, you know, I'm not making my own pasta or making, you know, or making my own pizzas and things like that. But I'm always so fascinated by how he curates things and how he knows like what to, what to do and what is what people love. And the reality is they just love, like we go there because we trust him to put forth a group of products that he, he really loves. And that's like the fun part. And I think like anytime you go to a restaurant, you see like, if you can see a little of that in the restaurant, like that means a lot more about the restaurant. I completely agree. And then our final conversation with Matt, just for that distillery of modern arts, there's a beautiful location, everything they're doing there. I would love to, if I would need it to throw an event, that would be the first place I would go. What a fun conversation with him as well. And then I don't want to gloss over him, but we're going to run out of time. I want to talk about you. We do have a full conversation with Jen Heidinger Kendrick and Leah Melnick in their, in their office.

26:18So the next, and we're going to talk, that's going to be the next episode that comes out because all this that we're doing is really to bring awareness to the giving kitchen because the giving kitchen helps restaurant workers. And so if you don't know about the giving kitchen, we really want, they have a Nashville base. They are also in Atlanta and Charlotte, but they will help any restaurant worker across the nation. So if you need help, go to giving kitchen.org and see exactly how you can get it. Right? Yes, sir. So like I was about to say before, I wanted to go into the long setup as to why we're here today. You are not always in the restaurant industry. You're actually a newbie to the industry in the grand scheme of things. I'm doing this less than five years. Yeah. I'm at 29 years. And so you're at less than five. Yes. What were you doing previously? What is your profession that got you to a point where you wanted to open a burger spot? Well, I think anybody who's known me since I was a kid always knew I was going to be my own boss someday.

27:21And I had tried various times to do that and I've failed. I owned a magazine and what kind of startup businesses, it was a high school sports magazine here in Georgia. Nice. It was actually six. The magazine was successful. The website was successful in terms of like quality of production and information. It was just run by a guy who didn't know anything about the magazine industry and that was me. Turns out that's important. My dad was in the magazine business. That's what his career was. Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. So the failure in the magazine industry led me to just always ask questions and just start being more curious and just not caring if somebody doesn't want to share with me. And because that was the thing that took me down in the magazine industry was that I didn't ask anybody ahead of time. I just thought, oh, I can find a printer and I sold advertising for a career. I was selling radio at the time. So I was like, oh, well, I sell ads for a living.

28:22And how hard can it be to find a printer to print stuff? And I had a partner, he was the editor, and his job was to get the articles. So all being said, it wasn't very difficult to do, but it was just too much for somebody who never asked the right questions to anybody. So I wouldn't say I made a vow, but probably subconsciously I decided that I was never going to just be shy about asking somebody questions. Like I was just going to ask anybody anything. So I actually started out in the shoe industry. My father was in the shoe industry for 55 years. And not one of my siblings had any school debt. And so I decided when I left college that I would give the shoe industry a shot. I said it took care of our entire family. So I went to work for a company called Hush Puppies. Okay.

29:23Part of those. Yep. And that got me to Birmingham. And then I wanted to be near my sister here in Atlanta. She was pregnant with my niece, who is now getting married, who's 28 and getting married. So how time flies, I wanted to be in Atlanta, really. So when the company wouldn't let me move to Atlanta, I said, all right, I quit. And then I moved to Atlanta. And then I got into the advertising industry, which I had always been like, we call it a passion of mine, but I was always a pretty good seller. And so I sold advertising for a long time. And somewhere in the 2000, early 2000 or 2010, I decided to start learning more about social media and how it all works together. So I decided I needed a hook and that hook was burgers. So I had a blog. I put a lot of effort into it and accidentally deleted it one day.

30:24That was pretty fun. What? Yeah, you can do that. Yeah. Yeah. Like your whole thing. Yeah. The whole thing. And there's no backup. I guess it's gone. Gone. I think I use that as like a jumping off point of like to not have to blog anymore. Really I was like, well, I deleted and there's something in this world telling me that's not for me. Right. I'm just going to. Yeah. So but it led me to it just led me to other people that when I would travel, I'd meet up for burgers and then the more I got into it, the more chefs I spoke to and the more interested I got in how they do things. And I started reading books about how to run a restaurant and the whole thing was more of a game to me. It was just something to like keep me from doing stupid stuff when I was on the road. Interesting. And then friends of mine started to have friends, but like Instagram followers started asking me, how do you make a good burger? And I was like, you know, I really don't know.

31:26I'm a tear. I was terrible in the kitchen. So I was like, all right, that'll be my next project. I'm going to learn how to make a burger. And what's the burger I want to make, you know, anybody you can go to the store and buy meat and put on the grill and put some lettuce and tomato and whatever on there. But I wanted to do something like really great. And so I studied. It was probably the most studying I've ever done in my life. Where do you begin? Because let's let's take our listeners along this walk that you had. Where do you start? Are you like, OK, bun or are you like meat? We got to figure out the meat. And then how thick do you cut it? How do you cook it? Do you cook it in? Do you smash them? Like where do you begin this process? So the process for me began with my list of pet peeves. All right. So I sat down with a list of things that drove me crazy about going to restaurants and eating burgers. What are some of those things? Can you remember any of them? Yeah. No, I remember them all because it's all my burgers. Good. What do you got?

32:26So one of my biggest pet peeves was this. I'm not going to name the restaurant, but I've been there a couple of times or they no longer exist on this coast, but I would order medium rare and then it would come out raw or well done or it never came out right. And I thought, all right, if I own a restaurant, I will go insane if somebody orders a burger away that they want it. And I can't figure out how to do that perfectly. You can't execute. Right. It just it drives me. It just drove me crazy. So I said, all right, I'm going to pick a burger that has none of those issues. So I decided smash burger. Right. OK. That's it. So you smash the burger. It has it. There's a well done. And I like smash burgers. I grew up eating steak and shake and whatever and didn't really realize I was eating kind of a smash burger at the time. I was like, was that a smash burger? They do have a couple of versions of their steak burger. But it's it just made it so that, OK, there's no issues.

33:29And then, you know, one of the other things was when somebody's like, oh, my God, the sauce on this burger is amazing. And then you take a bite and there was no sauce in the bite. I find that to be frustrating. OK. Right. The sauce is so good. But we or I believe pickle should be on my burger, but I'm going to only put two pickles on my burger. So then they're going to be bites where there's no pickle. So do you want me to have pickle in my bite or not? So I came up with the motto, everything in every bite, everything in every bite. OK. So when you take a bite of my burger, you're going to get mustard, pickles, cheese and sauce in every bite. How do you do that? How do you achieve this? This? We use four pickles. You know, we don't use two or three. It's just it's just like a lot of this out of control, man, right? None of this is cooking like like chefs are going to listen to this. You know, maybe Ford or Michael, you know, we were talking about earlier, Michael Lennix, these restaurant owners, you're going to listen to this and go. That's like a guy who's not a chef, just kind of articulated exactly.

34:33I am right here. I am so with you so far. Like, I don't think I'm thinking I'm like a restaurant guy. I'm thinking these are very logical things that are very important. I love it. It has nothing to do with being a chef or a cook or anything. It just has to be with being a customer and knowing what frustrates me, which is probably the biggest thing that most people who work in restaurants need to learn how to do is step outside of themselves and feel like a guest. I think we get so so ingrained in our business and what you need to do as a guest, we forget that they probably don't know they're just a guest trying to eat dinner. Like, what's the thing that's going to make their life better and easier? Not having to cook it the wrong way and then having the stuff in every bite. Two very logical things. I love that. What was the third thing? So the third thing was too much bun or not enough bun. OK, so when I started having friends over to eat burgers, one of them said to me, why do you use that role? And I said, what's on your plate right now? And they said nothing. I said, exactly.

35:34Right. One of them, I remember I went to this restaurant, I'm not going to name it, it's in New York. I'm never going to crap on a restaurant, but because I know I now know how hard it is to run a restaurant and I know that the people who I where I had a poor experience weren't trying to give me a poor experience. They just probably don't know how frustrating some of the things they do. So I went to this when I would go to like a new city or a city, I'd ask friends of mine, where do I go for burgers? They'd give me like three or four places and that would be every meal I had while I was out of town on business. So there's one time I went to this burger or to this place and had the burger and the guy said, how's the burger? And I hesitated for like a minute and I was like, well, the burger was really good. He's like, well, there was something you didn't like. I said, yeah, I thought your bun was terrible. It fell apart. It was made it made it almost impossible to eat the burger. I wound up having to finish with a knife and fork. And he was like really offended by that.

36:35But I mean, sometimes the truth hurts. Yeah, I mean, that's it. So I remember some some burger guys I met on Instagram. We were having like a pow wow one night after we had been to like four burger joints. And we came up with this saying, which was, if you're talking about the bun at the end of the meal, you messed up, right? You shouldn't. The bun is not the story here, right? So like on a cheesesteak, the bun is important. You know, the bread's important, right? A hoagie. The bread is very important. You know, all these things were really important, right? The burger, to me, the meat and what you do with the meat is very important and the bun should support what you're doing, not be should be of high quality, though, fresh at least. Yeah. But I mean, it just shouldn't be part of that. You shouldn't go home and go, man, that was the best bun I ever had. You should say that was the best burger I ever had or that was the most flavorful burger is an ingredient in the in the hamburger. You shouldn't ruin the thing. Right. So yeah, just shouldn't detract. And it shouldn't be the best thing and it definitely shouldn't be the worst thing.

37:38So those are like some of my pet peeves. So when I started making a burger, I'm like, OK, let's figure this out. So I went to I tell the story, people probably heard a million times, but I went to Publix and I sat there for like an hour one day just looking at ingredients and I would bounce around from Idle Isle. I looked at all the pickles, right, Claussen and Vlasic and Mount Olive and Publix brand. Thin sliced and kosher and everything. And then and then I would go to the spice aisle and it's like, all right, well, I like these flavors. So I'm going to make a seasoning with these flavors. And then I go to the meat aisle. And meanwhile, the Publix manager is following me around and he thinks I'm casing the place because I haven't I don't have a basket. I'm not buying anything. I'm actually just staring at all the items on every aisle. He's got he's got the SWAT team outside ready for you. You know, he thought I wish I knew who that guy was. I could probably I could probably get somebody to track it down based on dates and years. But I really thought he thought like something was wrong with me.

38:39He wasn't far off, but that it was that's for different reasons. But he really, you know, he finally came up to me and was like, what do you do? Can I help you? Like he was trying to be nice about it. I was like, no, I'm just thinking about how I want to make the perfect burger. And I'm I'm looking at all the ingredients and making notes. And he's like, oh, OK. And then he left me alone. So but I mean, that's how it started. One of my favorite reviews I got early on was it was like a two star review and it said this is nothing but store bought ingredients. And you're like, and I thought, yeah, we are going to take a short break to hear a quick word from our sponsors. Bro, imagine the raddest blend of berries and ginger hitting you in your taste buds like a wave of flavor from the future. This genless fizz smacks you right in the mouth feels, generalizing your tongue while delivering that light, refreshing euphoria in every sip. The floral aroma, unique flavors and THC infusion of our berry ginger fizz makes you feel like someone should have thought of this before.

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41:46We actually care about their business. We want them to be ready in the case of a fire, which is why they offer trainings. They will go in and they will sit with your staff and say, hey, this is how you use a fire extinguisher. How many people out there actually know how to use a fire extinguisher? They want to make sure that you're getting the most out of it. They're building those relationships. And that is why I am proud to introduce All-Star Fire Protection to you. You can get a hold of Rob Bowman. You should call him today. His number is 615-431-3760. That's 615-431-3760. Isn't that how, isn't that how we're all learning? Well, what other ingredients are you supposed to shop when you make? He said, I made these ingredients from a lab. Like, I mean, come on, everything store-bought to a degree. Oh, well, Mount Olive makes great pickles. I just bought their pickles. Why would I not use their pickles? Five Guys uses their pickles in a thousand locations. I think I'm in pretty good company.

42:49Do you, do you take, coming from a world where I guess you had a blogger, you were talking into this, this restaurant world, what is your take on reviews? Cause that's a, oh, you're, you're, it's a vulnerable process. Opening a restaurant because now the world gets to critique you. Yeah. I think I've said this before and maybe, you know, I'll, I'll mention it a lot of times in my life, the restaurant industry is one of the only industries in the world where the customer can trash talk you while they're doing it. Right. And I know they're like in baseball games, you go, man, this picture stinks on Twitter, why the guy's pitching. Right. That's, that's different. Okay. That guy's making millions of dollars and doesn't care. Um, whereas my restaurant is life and death, it is my family. It is how I pay the bills. It is, it is how I pay for my kids to go to school. Um, and so I take it very personally and people can't really understand that. Why does he, do you see the way he replies or yeah, this is my livelihood.

43:50Imagine if somebody came up to you on the street and punched you in the face. Would you punch them back? Probably. Yeah, I would. Right. I'm just telling you right now, if you punch me in the face, I'm punching you. It's going to happen. And Chris Hall will, I remember Chris talking about this on the podcast. Um, so yeah, if you, if you come and punch my business and try and take my livelihood away, because you think you, you've earned that somehow, because you, you spend $8 and now you're my partner in the business and you can trash me. That's not how I, how I do it. So I have a very simple philosophy. Um, and I'll say to people online at the store, if you have a problem at NFA, if you come to me, I will take care of it. But if you think Google and Facebook and Yelp can solve your problem, feel free to go to them with your problem, but I can guarantee you this, they're not going to make you whole. So you have a choice. You can come to me and we can be adults, or you can go be a narcissistic lunatic and tell the world how they're all idiots and that you're the one who figured out that my restaurant sucks.

45:03I had the, my favorite line and for one of the review from one of my restaurants and for people listening, Atlanta, I'm the director of operations. I have three restaurants in Nashville. One of them is a, a steak house and I've got three restaurants, one of the restaurants, the opening line of this one star view is never mind all the five star reviews, this place is crap. And it's like, Oh, nevermind all the five star. I nailed it. Forget everybody else who loves this place. I had a bad experience. Like, well, tell me just if you say, Hey, these are the things that are happening while you're there, I will always take care of it always. And that's, that's how this has kind of been the advice I've told you. If you go to the restaurant and you have the issue and you talk to the people who work there and they tell you to go pound sand, go, go place a buyer beware. But if you don't talk to anybody and you are trying to get likes and you know, we had a guy put one on there the other day for one of our new restaurant and it was like this whole sticky kind of a, Oh, he does these reviews kind of a thing.

46:10And we called him like, Hey dude, I don't, I don't really think that's funny. He's like, Oh, I'm just trying to be funny. I'm like, you trashing my business isn't a joke. Like we're a local, we're a small business, man. They were, we feed our children in this way and you're, do you think this is funny to do this? Like, yeah, he took it down. I just had, I had a three star review today. It was a guy I looked, so this is my process. You send me a review. First off, I determined if it's a real name. So I go look up the order and then I say, all right, let's try and match up with what this guy said with what actually happened. Okay. I can tell you right now, never in the history of my restaurant, which is four and a half years, has anybody a ever come to me first before posting review? Never. Not once. Okay. Secondly, they all embellish their visit because they all have to be very important and they all want everybody to know how much of an expert they are.

47:13So today's review was, well, I thought it was overpriced because they're thin patties. Okay. First off price concerns. I find patently stupid. Quite frankly, the prices are on the menu. If you don't want to spend that much money somewhere, don't it's okay, but don't do it and then blame the restaurant for you doing it. That's not fair. Secondly, there's a description of the food on the menu that tells you how many ounces are in the burger and what it is. Third, there's a picture of the burger. Okay. This is all within like I shot square inches, right? I mean, it's on a giant digital board. Okay. You cannot miss it. You saw them. You actually know you haven't been in yet. You're coming Thursday. Well, I won't be there. You'll come Thursday. I won't be there, but you'll see what I'm talking about. It's giant message board. You can't miss it. Okay. So when you do all those things and then you blame the restaurant, it really is just not, it's unfair and unreasonable in my opinion.

48:14I don't even think it's opinion. I think factually it's unreasonable. I think price is subjective. Who knows what is expensive to one person versus the next person. So saying it's expensive. It's like, as opposed to what? Like if I have, if I make $20,000 a year, if I make $200,000 a year, that changes significantly, whether or not something is expensive or not. It's like, it's a really good burger. This burger was named the best burger in Georgia by what? Southern living? Who said this? Food and wine, Reader's Digest, but those things are fun and they bring people into the restaurant, which is good for my employees and myself and my family. Of course. But if you don't like it, then it's not the best view. And I'm very quick to tell anybody who comes into my store. Who's like, and they do it. It's on a weekly basis. We we've done, we've been fairly popular and I'm very fortunate for that. And it could stop tomorrow. Let's hope it doesn't, but it could, um, they come in and they're like, I heard you're the best burger in Georgia.

49:18And I'm going to tell you if you're, if they're, if, if that person's right. Oh, I never thought about that. And I say, you get a target, you get a target when you're the best. Yeah, a hundred percent, which is I'm not, look, I'm, I'm not going to turn the, the, the, you know, the publicity down, but I will, I will disarm that person immediately on the spot. Hey, that's great that somebody else really likes our burger, but you're going to have it today and if you like it, then it's fine. And if you don't like it, then you don't like it. So, you know, don't worry about, I think people reading reviews. It's fine, but you're reading the review of a person you don't know. And I find that weird. This guy called me creepy today for like following up with my readers or these reviews. I'm like, here's what's creepy that you think everybody else cares what you have to say. I think that's creepy. I think you're, I think you're, you're, you're speaking things that other restaurant tours right now are like, hell yeah. No, they, man, I had the number of restaurant owners who are like Billy, man, I don't know if you should say that. I'm like, you know what?

50:19Somebody who is somebody who's somebody who left my restaurant unhappy, which kills me when somebody who leaves your rest, any of your three restaurants unhappy, does that excite you? I know that's the antithesis of everything that we do. Right. So I explain this to people all the time and ever other industries. And that is this, the hardest thing to do on the planet is get a customer. It's the hardest thing. It's advertising and you know, in rent, you know, like Rodeo drive is not about how great the places are. It's about location and how much rent they're paying because they want the status of being having a store in Rodeo drive, right? There's so many things that go into getting a customer. So it's really hard and difficult. The easiest thing to do is lose a customer. Okay. And as a guy who's sold advertising for most of his career, prior to the restaurant, churn is your enemy. And churn for those of you listening is it's a one and done, right?

51:22You lose customers. They don't come back. Okay. So I always tell people like, I'm in it for your a hundred and eight dollars, not your eight dollars. Like I want you to come back 20 times, not come in once and then leave. Like I get some joy out of, you know, this guy, by the way, the guy who left their review today, um, he left, he ate at my restaurant in January of 2023 and left a review today. It was in January of 2023. Yes. And he left the review today. Today. So he just, today he woke up and decided I'm going to trash this guy's business today. It's been, it's been long enough. It's there's he slept on it a whole, like 600 times. 18 months. Yeah. To, uh, so it's, you know, if that guy doesn't have any enough respect for me and my family to come to me and say, Hey man, uh, I thought it was too small or I thought it was this, or I thought it was that, and instead wants to go out and trash my business, then I don't really have much respect for people like that.

52:24In all honesty, I just don't, I want to make people happy. That's, um, nothing gives me more joy when I'm out at the picnic tables. You'll, you'll be there Thursday and you'll be out there for lunch. I can't wait. And you will see people and you'll hear people, hopefully you hear people say, this is the best burger I ever had. Like that's brings a lot of joy to me. I don't, uh, there was a woman who came a couple of weeks ago. I went out there and she had taken one bite out of her burger. And I was like, well, what's the matter? She's like, well, I didn't know that it had this flavor profile. I said, okay, I'm going to go make you another one. No, you don't have to do that. No, no, no, I do, because this is, this is the thing I want to do. I like making people happy. I want you to experience this. You came here for the experience. You didn't come here to go, and that's really not my thing. Right. So I want to make you happy. You earn it. You, you, uh, get in a car or you go into your office every day. It's a lot of effort to earn the money you earn and you go out, you chose to spend it with me.

53:26And I want you to get your value for your money. You know, I want you to be happy. So I went in and we made her another burger and you know, and that was it. It wasn't like a, and that's one of the things that restaurants drive me crazy is when they put you on the spot. Do you want me to make you another one? No, just do it. It just, yeah, just do it. Just do it. Just do it. No, no, no. I want to eat my really well done steak that I ordered medium rare. All right. That person's not coming back happy. That person's not coming back. You know, it's funny you say that about the repeat guest thing. That's, that's our mission. And the thing that we turn into a QB cube, we say every single person's job is what can I do to make every guest repeat guest? That's what we do. That's were you trying to make the guest repeat guest? Yes. Okay. Then whatever you did was good. Like that's what we do. So I, so, you know, I, I touch every table when I'm there. I've told the high school kids I have working for me who are running orders. Like when you're out there, do not go out there and deliver an order without asking other people if they're doing okay, or they need anything.

54:27It's it's free. All that's free. It doesn't cost you anything to be cordial to your customers. Right. So, and that's how we all make money. We had a family there on Saturday who brought us a lot of food and drinks. We had a family there on Saturday who brought another couple because they had come the week before and loved it. That's how we, that's the review I want. A hundred percent. I don't really look, if you want to go out and leave a five star review for me on Google or Yelp, I'm not going to turn it down, but if you ask me, and I have had people say to me, Hey, I'm going to go leave a review. Which one do you want? Google or Yelp? I said, neither personal, bring your friends, call your friends. Okay. Next time you come back, bring two more people to the table. That's my review. Right. When you come back, that's a five star review. Okay. Yeah. No, I love that. Let's talk about amazing guests. So let's talk about the other side of this thing. You decided you were talking about your pet peeves, honestly, we're talking about how you're making a burger. You said that it should not be about, you shouldn't be talking about the bun at the end of the burger.

55:31You decided that a smaller patties that don't, you don't cook to a temperature. You decided that you were going to have every single bite would have the flavor of the burger on it. And so you did this. What about your fries? Tim, but the fries, the fries are a big deal when it comes to the burger place. I actually don't like our fries as much as I do our tater tots. Okay. So the tater, what, what, what makes the difference? Are you hand cutting the fries? Are you buying a coated fry? What are you doing? No, there's, uh, um, we buy them frozen. So we're in a gas station. Yeah. I've got a hundred square feet in a walk-in cooler. There's no shame in that, by the way. No, no, by the way, by the way, that's also pretty frustrating is that people don't understand what frozen means, right? They're like, well, I like fresh cut fries. I'm like, okay, well, let's be clear. Frozen fries are not like you made them in your backyard and stuck them in your freezer. Okay. That's not what you're getting when you get a frozen fry. You're it's made with technology.

56:32They're cooked, they're blanched and fried par fried and frozen. And then when you re when you're refrying, basically they're perfect. It creates a coating on the outside and a fluffy inside. It's, it's scientific. It's not like laziness. It's actually cheaper for me to hand cut fries, quite frankly. So, um, I don't think there's good, honestly, a lot of times I don't, I mean, people who does them, they go bet. They don't stay hot. They could, because they haven't, they haven't been, they haven't taken care of properly. So you always hear like the most of the big thing about in and out fries. I mean, you might as well, it's like a world war when you, when people talk about like in and out fries, do you want to, you want a hot take? I don't like them or people hate them. Yeah. I mean, I'm not like, I mean, I don't hate them because they, they're not like McDonald's fries are much better. They cut them, they put them in the water to get the, you know, they get the starch out and then they cook them and serve them to you right away. And what you get is you get a, if you don't eat those fries, if you eat them right away, they're good.

57:35But that's not how people eat fries. You get your fries, you take some bites of your burger, you eat some fries. By the time you get halfway through your fries are cold and soggy. And that's most hand cut fries. Yeah. Like 90% of restaurants that serve hand cut fries, that's how they're doing. So the people that eat the, the fries first before the burger, they typically like the fries and the ones who wait to eat the fries, the end of the burger, it's the ones who are like, I don't like these. Right. It makes sense. This is cold or soggy or whatever. Do you top the tots with anything? Do you do like chili tots or anything like that? Yeah, we have chili and cheese and we use chili from Turkey, from a turkey chili, from breadwinner cafe and bakery, which is across the street. Um, we, uh, the thing. So I had a tabletop fryer when I first opened and, um, one of Atlanta's best restaurant owners came for lunch one day and I sent him a private note and said, you know, what can I do better? And he, we had some talk. We had a, he said, don't change anything with the burger. Here's what I would do with the hot dog. Here's how I would do the onions, which we did. We started grilling our onions and beef tallow, like the next day.

58:38Um, and, uh, and he's like, you've got to get a real fryer. I was like, oh, okay. So the next day, next day I went out and bought a used honey penny fryer and our handyman, when he comes in the restaurant, he's never had to fix the fryer, he's had to fix other stuff. He goes, why did you buy this super duper fryer? I said, well, Chick-fil-A did all the market research for me. And they're doing okay. And so I just bought their fryer, the fryer that you, but it turns out it's a big deal. So the recovery time is great. Um, it's got the technology and you know, with technology, quote unquote, it beeps when it's a timer and a lot of these restaurants don't think about this. If they think about how cheap they can get a fryer and they think about their employees are going to break the fryer. And so they just get a cheap something fryer and they don't realize the impact that has. And so there's a national chain that has it uses the same tater tots I do. And one day I left their restaurant.

59:39I tried all their stuff and I left and I called up my sales guy from the land Weston and I said, why do their tater tots suck so bad? Why are mine some of the best tater tots in the world? And theirs are horrible. He's like, oh, they buy terrible fryers. And if you don't get the first batch of tater tots out of the fryer in the day, the fryer will never be at the temperature needed to make proper tater tots oil makes a difference too. Well, we use beef tallow. Yeah. I mean, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I heard a pie, a Malcolm Gladwell podcast, probably eight, nine years ago. And it was about how millennials have never had a good French fry. And I've listened to the podcast like that episode, like four or five times. They did all this research and they brought millennials in because millennials are born in 1990 and that's when McDonald's stopped serving, stopped using beef tallow in their fryer. So that was the premise is that they've never had like the fries you and I grew up with, they've never had those fries and those were the best fries hands down.

01:00:44They were the best fries. And so I turned to my wife one day, we were listening to the pot. She, it was her first time. It was like my third. And I said, if I ever open a restaurant, I'm doing beef tallow. And if people don't like how unhealthy it is, I don't really care. We're going to take one last break to hear a word from our sponsors. Unleash the Wolf with Campo Bravo Tequila. Campo Bravo is a 100% agave tequila with a bold, smooth flavor. Perfect for sipping neat as a shot or in cocktails. Campo Bravo is also certified additive free, which means there are no artificial flavors or sweeteners in Campo Bravo, like there are in many other brands. Campo Bravo gives you all the bold, smooth flavor you want in a tequila with nothing you don't. Campo Bravo is actually truly farm to bottle tequila, meaning our fifth generation agave farmers meticulously control entire production process from the farm to the bottle to give you the highest quality handcrafted tequila.

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01:03:52It's all about empowering culinary creativity while streamlining operations. Check them out at whatchefswant.com or give them a call at 800-600-8510. And so I turned to my wife one day. We were listening to the pot. She, it was her first time. It was like my third. And I said, if I ever open a restaurant, I'm doing beef tallow. And if people don't like how unhealthy it is, I don't really care. And I just want, it is, it's just not good. I just don't care. I mean, I care. I don't want you to do anything unhealthy, but also you're eating a deep fried potato, it's not healthy to begin with. So the oil is not putting it over the top. It's not the oil that's the problem. The type of oil anyway. No, I'm enjoying this conversation. So it's, it's fun because it's like, if you're listening to this, like this is the shit that like restaurant owners think about, like it's like your fryers and all the stuff that gets fixed and what oils and how do you make it better? Like you're just constantly, and I think it's so funny how many amazing ideas I've got from a server or a bartender who said, Hey, I have an idea.

01:04:57You're like, what is it? I was afraid to say so. And I'm like, no, I'm like, give me that. We're always looking for everything. If you're out there and you have an idea, tell somebody. Cause literally it's just shit we haven't thought about and your brain is constantly thinking. Especially for me, because I'm new to the industry, right? So it's, there's not a day that goes by where I don't learn something. And I remember early on, I didn't know, I didn't know this, how bad our bacon. So I like diced bacon instead of bacon strips. Cause I like bacon in every bite. And I don't, one of my big pet peeves was when you get bacon on a burger, you pull the bacon out. When you take a bite, if it's not crispy enough, if it's not crispy enough. Right. And that drove me crazy. So I was like, well, if I ever have a burger, I'm a restaurant, I'm doing diced bacon, so then I can control the surface area and make sure there's bacon in every bite. So, um, we, we put them in like a third pan in a warming, like a steam table. And the third pan just had no drainage.

01:05:57So it was basically the bacon was just kind of cooking itself all day in the oil. And I just thought that's how you do it. I didn't know. So I would tell my guys like, all right, just make sure you stir it. You know, just don't let it sit there. You got to stir it, you know, every half hour or whatever. I know I was making up things on the fly. And so we hired this guy and about three months in my manager comes to me and he goes, Hey, Billy, uh, so-and-so says that there's this third pan that has holes in it and that it will drain the grease and it'll keep the bacon fresh. I was like, I called the guy back here. Well, first, the first thing I did, I didn't even, I didn't even think I finished the conversation with the guy. I was in the car on the way to the equipment place in like two seconds. I go there. I was like, Hey man, I need a third pan that has holes in it. And like, Oh, that's over there. There's like a whole stack. I've probably seen them a hundred times in this place. So I buy like four of them and I come back and we do it.

01:07:01And then the next day, I mean, it's like instantly better. Okay. I get back, I say, throw all that bacon out, make new, you know, new bacon, put it in this thing. It's like instantly better. So before we leave for the day, I called the guy in the back and he thought I was going to fire him. And I was like, Hey man, that thing with the third pan is like, yeah, I go. Yeah. If you ever wait more than five seconds to tell me how to make this restaurant better, then you'll have to find another job. Like, I don't want to wait to, it's like a, it's like a pharmacist who's like, can I do your prescription tomorrow? You're like, no, man, I'd rather stop getting sick today if we can help it. You can't write, but it takes a, you have to be willing to accept that. If you did something wrong, I think there's a lot of ego out there. That's like, I know what I'm doing. Like, no, it's okay. Right. And that's, I think that's the benefit of like, um, not knowing anything and not being a career chef or being in the kitchen is that my ego is driven by being perfect and it's not by me being perfect. So when I tell people who come work for me, I'll say there's your way and my way in the best way.

01:08:05I'm only interested in the best way. So if that means I have to go out and buy third pans with holes in them, then I'm going to do it. And if it means I have to do something else, then we're going to, we're going to at least try it. Right. So I believe in like the agile method. Let's try something. Let's fail fast. Let's, let's think constantly be thinking and fail fast and just move on to the next thing, and if it works, it works. And if it doesn't work, then it doesn't work. And that's fine, but not trying to be better is way worse. Uh, being complacent is way worse to me than, than, uh, than trying and failing way worse. Well, I would like to thank you, uh, Billy, we could do this for hours. We're, we typically like to say this might be doing it for hours. We don't know tastiest hour of talk. Yeah. I've, you may, I hope that you get to see Billy do some more episodes because he is a cohost for the next several episodes. You're going to learn more about be sick of me. Like you wouldn't believe. No, you're not. No, you're not. I do most of the talking cause I am a talker here.

01:09:07I do this. Uh, you're gonna get tired of me talking is what's going to happen, but I want to say thank you for, um, for everything that you do for the giving kitchen. I want to say thank you for everything. You've got something to say. I'm going to cut you off. Well, we have a final thought for you. Well, I got to talk about the burger benefit. This is a perfect opportunity to do that. Okay. Um, you want to finish and then throw it to me to do. I just want to say thanks for everything you're doing. And this is another thing that you're doing. Um, is the burger benefit and what we do on this show, uh, Gordon food services, our fine title sponsor. And, uh, I know that, uh, they're your favorite. And, uh, you know, look, here's the thing, if they're good for your restaurants and good for the game, whatever, then I'm fine with it. And so we do the Gordon food service final thought here. And so you get to talk about whatever you want to talk about. I think this is a good time to talk about, and we can do this as long as we want to do, but, uh, we are, we're getting close to the end of the show. Let's talk about the burger benefit. Let's talk about it.

01:10:08So the burger benefit, uh, I started it, uh, last year was the inaugural version of the burger benefit. Um, I brought 20 chefs from around the country to come cook burgers at NFA for one day. All the money went to the giving kitchen. Um, the way it got started was I was listening to a food podcast. There's a, there's like a pattern here. Uh, I'm just constantly trying to learn stuff. So I was listening to the spork full, which is a podcast by Dan Pashman. Uh, I think he's won a couple of James Beard, so that's pretty cool. Um, and he had, uh, he was talking about the bear. Love it comes out Thursday. Yeah, this will come out after that, but it comes out in a couple of came out last Thursday, right? It came out a couple of Thursdays ago that we're going to do record a bunch of these versions. Yeah. Um, so, uh, and then he had on John Ben Hays, who was the chef who made, who created the burger behind the scenes in the movie called the menu.

01:11:10And, uh, that was a crazy movie by the way. Yeah. I actually love the movie. I, I, it doesn't seem like it's my kind of movie, but I actually really like it. What did you, let's, let's detour real quick. Okay. Sorry, that movie, what were your thoughts on the actual movie? Because I think a lot of people had different thoughts and the second time I watched it, um, it may or may not have eaten an edible and it opened up my eyes to a whole nother side of this movie. So I've watched probably most restaurant shows or movies, probably multiple times and I'm always like picking things out. So like I've watched burnt like 10 times. And, um, I know that's probably not what chefs want to hear, like, oh, that's where that guy thinks chefs are or whatever, but there's just certain things I pick out in certain movies in different aspects, like Joe Bastianich's book restaurant, man, you know, I'm known, you know, I don't serve wine. So, you know, that whole section on wine doesn't mean anything, but that movie specifically the menu. Yeah.

01:12:10So anyway, so, um, so the movie specifically, I really loved it. So for the burger benefit, what I told people, uh, was don't, you know, be a Margot, right? Don't be a jackhammer, like be somebody who just appreciates a good frigging cheeseburger for it being a great, you know, good cheeseburger. Stop with the, it's gotta have foie gras and it's gotta have all this stuff. You know, just appreciate a restaurant for who they are. And not for this, um, myth that you want them to miss it, this mythical position you want them to be. That's why I love the movie is I thought it like took all those people who pretend to be experts or don't really, they're just there because, um, it's the hit place to be and you know, like it took all that and it threw all those people away and it took the one person who just wanted a really good burger and celebrated that person. I would say celebrate is a loose term. She's the only one who lives, but, um, well, so spoiler alert, spoiler alert.

01:13:13Well, if you haven't seen it by now, I can't help. Yeah. I mean, just to say, um, I, I thought that each one of the different people that were there represented a different type of person who, everybody who's worked in restaurants for a really long time, you put so much time and energy and passion into everything you do. And then people come in and they completely miss it or they completely dismiss it or do not give a shit about what you're doing and it's disrespectful. And in this movie, the chef got to bring all of those people to his restaurant, all those archetypes, all those, all those people. And then he got to just middle fingers in the air and do whatever he wanted to. And it was like sadistic cut the dudes, the asshole guy who comes in, doesn't give a shit about your food, but cheats on you with it. It's like you cut his thumb off or whatever. And it's like, how much would you as a chef restaurant owner, like, if you could do those things, there's kind of a love letter to the industry saying, Hey, look, we're going to take all those people who just annoy the shit out of you, who just do not care about what you do. And we're going to torture and kill them all one by one.

01:14:16It's going to be great. Well, that's kind of like, I don't, I don't get, I want that my review replies, I don't get off on that, but that's kind of my making you a smore. Quite frankly. You know, it's like, look, you just don't appreciate what we do. And you think that the world revolves around this thought in your head and it just doesn't. And by the way, do you really want to like harp on people who are touching your food? Like, aren't those the people you want to celebrate and like take care of? That's what I think. So I love the movie, but we did. So the burger benefit in that movie, they made a burger and this burger was this amazing burger and the guy for you, you met the guy that made that burger. I Instagram, John, and I was like, Hey man, would you ever come up to NFA and do a podcast or not a pop-up? And he's like, absolutely. Now I don't know this guy at all. I said, we'll give all the money to the giving kitchen. And he's like, yeah, no problem. So then I called my buddy, George Moats up in New York, hamburger America.

01:15:17I said, George, I had this idea. Do this thing for the giving kitchen. He's like, what's the giving kitchen? So I tell him, he's like, Oh, that sounds pretty cool. I'll come down and do it. So now I have three people and I was like, Oh, I wonder if I could get like 20 people where can this thing end? Yeah. So, and that's kind of how my brain, that's like the restaurant, how I got started in the restaurant. It wasn't like, can I make a burger for my family? It was like, well, what if I made perfect burgers every time for everybody who comes in my restaurant? So I did that for, uh, so we did that for the burger benefit. We wound up having, I think we sold about 1173 tickets for a one day event. And 1173, huh? Yeah. We had, uh, I mean, George Moats came down. We had, uh, Matt Highland who founded Emmy squared, uh, co-founded with Emily. Um, his wife, uh, Simone, uh, came in. I mean, we had people come from all over the country to cook burgers for 90 minutes. That was their shift. And the coolest part was when they were done with their shift, they were helping the other chefs. They're like, it was, it was, they, they all loved it.

01:16:22They're like, I mean, Vinny Seminoe, he unfortunately didn't get his beard award this year. I never met the guy came down. Um, and, uh, I introduced him to the giving kitchen and he wound up having a server apply for funds like the next week. Oh, wow. That's amazing. I mean, so it was an amazing event. We're doing it a little differently this year in that I'm not having people come from all around the country. There'll be a couple, but it's going to be mostly Atlanta chefs. Um, and then all the people in the, in the other markets, I'm going to invite them to participate in another way. One of the things that frustrated me last year was some of these people closed their restaurant to come. Be at the event. Oh, and while heartwarming and amazing and humbling, I cannot continue to ask people to leave their restaurant for three days and stop making money. These aren't people who are millionaires. These are people who, you know, this is how they put food on the table.

01:17:23So I'm going to create a different way for these guys to be involved so they can stay in market and, and, and feed their families. But, um, so far we have Andrew Zimmern. So that was my ass to Andrew. Um, when I had him cornered, uh, I said, I really wanted to be a part of the, part of the burger benefit. It's this event. I couldn't even get, it's this event I created last year. He's like, oh, I know exactly what it is. I'm going to, we're going to do it. Wow. Like, oh, okay. Um, God, I mean, we just, the burger benefit.com that's where the list of all the chefs are. But John Ben Hayes is going to come up from Savannah and reprise his role. And, uh, when is it September 22nd, September. So it's right, right after the Atlanta food and wine festival. That's right. So we actually, that was the original date and then we moved it the following week, following weekend. Atlanta classic events. Steven's going to kill me. Atlanta classic tents and events. He's, he's going to be mad at me for botching this. Anyway, they're a huge supporter of the giving kitchen and huge in it.

01:18:25One of the, the title, one of the main sponsors for the burger benefit. They're going to, we're going to take the, you'll see what I'm talking about when you come Thursday, but, um, we're going to turn the whole back area of NFA burger into a, uh, until like, uh, into the burger benefit. It's going to be a day long event drinks. Um, scoff law is going to put beer and, you know, it's provide beer like they did last year and lots of different bourbon. I hear a lot about, I've heard a lot about scoff law since I've been dealing with Atlanta. Like that's apparently they do a great job. A lot of people love them. They, uh, yeah, they hustle. Um, they're, they're good people. They don't say no to anything. If I call JP Watts right now or Seth Herman, I said, I need two cases of beer for a charity. They, they would, wherever they were, they would stop and they would go get it and bring it to the charity. I think that you should do an interview with them and you should share that with the world for Atlanta restaurant radio. You get JP Watts on an interview. You, I would love to have him and Chris Hall on the same show, man.

01:19:27That would tear, that would tear Atlanta up. Do it. You can do this. Billy Kramer. Thanks for having me, man. Thanks for, thank you so much for doing this and have such a safe trip. And I am really, really excited about Atlanta restaurant radio. Lots of conversations like these, they're going to continue. We're just going to learn about people. Hopefully people get to learn about you. They're going to get you on four more episodes after this. And, um, it's been so much fun, man. Thank you for everything you've done. It's going to make cornering Andrew Zimmern seem small. Having me on all these other podcasts. It's what it's going to do. I love it. Thanks for everything, man. By the way, I'm going to give you a shout out. Thank you for everything you're doing in Nashville for the giving kitchen and what you do for the restaurant community. It is very abnormal for people like us to go on podcasts and promote other restaurants. That's not a normal thing. Um, and I think, cause it's, you know, you want people to always eat at your restaurant and you want people to always be involved with what you do.

01:20:31And that's just not, that's just not what we're doing. Like that's not what I'm doing. It's definitely not what you're doing. So we appreciate that. No, I always, you know, it's a, here's, here's, it's not me versus you. It is locally owned and operated restaurant tours against the chains in my, and it's not necessarily even that it's a, it's versus the people that don't go out or that are influenced by all of the marketing that they see on TV. Like go find somebody who lives in your community and gives back to the schools and feeds people again and again and again. And as a fixture in your community, the place that they have that long line, go stand in that long, that's where you meet your neighbors. Like the restaurants like yours are the reason why communities thrive. And my goal is to as many of those as we can possibly help and grow it. It's, I don't know the exact term, but rising tides rises, all ships, some lifts, all ships. I mean, that's kind of the way I look at it. You know, if people are before they go out to eat, if they're thinking, I wonder who's locally owned and operated that I can go support tonight that offers really great food and don't do it blindly, but go find the people who are doing a really great job who are local, those are the people you should be going to eat.

01:21:45I want to tell their story and also care about you having a good time. Yeah, that's important. And you're not, if you don't care about having a good time, you're not going to be successful very long. No, my opinion. So Billy, thanks Brandon for everything. You are the man and we will talk to you soon. See you on the other side. Thank you very much to Billy Kramer for joining us. It's our very first episode of Atlanta restaurant radio. We're going to be doing Atlanta restaurant radio on Nashville restaurant radio for the entire month of July. So if you are in Nashville, then we would love for you to learn about these restaurants for when you go to Atlanta and everybody in Atlanta, if you're listening to this, you liked it, you want to hear more every week, we are going to have new episodes. Find us on Instagram at Atlanta underscore restaurant underscore radio. We're going to be having guests hosts come in. Uh, next week we're talking with Jen Heidinger Kendrick and she is the founder of the giving kitchen.

01:22:46And then the week after that, we're talking with Ford fry. And so we've got some big episodes coming up, lots of episodes, uh, already recorded, ready to get out there. I'll be in Atlanta today. You're hearing this today. I'll be there for a Braves game coming out to Atlanta. Going to have lots of fun. Thank you for listening. The thing I always tell people when I do my sign off is thank you. I hope that you're being safe out there. This was a COVID thing. We wanted everybody to be safe and I still mean it. And then I tell the entire audience that I love them because I really truly do all of you. So I hope that you are being safe out there. Love you guys. Bye.