Brandon's Book Club

00:00Hey, this is Jen Heidinger-Kendrick, founder of Giving Kitchen. Let me tell you a little more. Giving Kitchen is a James Beard award-winning nonprofit that provides emergency assistance to food service workers nationally. Headquartered in Atlanta since 2013, Giving Kitchen has served over 19,000 food service workers and awarded over $12 million to food service workers in crisis. Want to get involved and support Giving Kitchen? Join Dining with Gratitude in October, Giving Kitchen's month-long campaign where the food service community pledges to raise critical funds and spread the word about Giving Kitchen's mission. Learn more by clicking the link in this episode's notes, givingkitchen.org slash DWG. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City.

01:05And welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. We are presented by Gordon Food Service. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host. We're going to be joined today with Debra Sunderland, who is the owner of Sunderland Coaching, and Stephen Smithing, who is the owner of The Green Hills Grill, Merbol, and Chagos Belmont Cantina. He is also my boss, so this is a lot of fun. We've been working with Debra for a little bit, and I've read this book twice, and this, like anything, this is a Brandon's Book Club episode, by the way. And I am not a professional when it comes to this. I am a seeker, and I am a student, and I am trying to learn. So this was a really fun opportunity to bring Debra in and do kind of a session with her around this book, live and in person. So this interview is, I think, powerful and impactful, and I hope that there's some part of it that you can take from this.

02:07But I am, I struggle through this, because it's difficult being the host of the episode, as well as trying to get content out of it. And that, I think, is the challenge. And in this episode, you're gonna get to hear real time Stephen and I work through something that happened in our restaurant the other day. We're gonna get to work through real time. And you kind of see at the end of the episode how I come full circle with where I'm coming from and seeing myself, and it's very vulnerable. I've held onto this for a couple days, because I wasn't really sure that I wanted to put it out there, because I just, ugh, it's a hard one. And I'm gonna do it, though. I'm gonna put it out there, because after sleeping on it and thinking about it, I think there's somebody out there that's gonna hear this and go, wow, man, that's something that I deal with, or that happens to us. And if, you know, if I can help one person out there understand themselves better, understand the dynamic of leadership, or how we communicate with each other, the principles behind this book, the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership, then I think it's helpful, no matter what it paints me as.

03:19I think that, I think I'm just gonna do it. So, we want to tell you, you heard at the beginning there that Jen Heidinger Kendrick talked about the Giving Kitchen, and October is a big month for Giving Kitchen. They really want you guys to get out there and help them, and I am doing that at Miraval on October the 17th. We are hosting an event. It is called Raising Spirits, and it is going to be a benefit for the Giving Kitchen. It's a signature event. We're doing a tequila tasting. We'll have five different tequilas. We will have a bunch of different foods that you can eat, kind of past foods you'll eat. There's gonna be a live band. We're gonna have bars. It's gonna be a soiree. Get dressed up and come out to Miraval on, it's a Thursday night, I believe, October the 17th. You can find tickets to this event. And again, 100% of this stuff, the proceeds of this are gonna go straight to the Giving Kitchen. The tickets go straight through the Giving Kitchen.

04:21This is an amazing opportunity for you to support restaurant workers and to be kind of a part of this whole thing that we do. And that is gonna happen on October the 17th. We're very, very excited about it. This is kind of a little bonus episode for Brandon's Book Club. And what is Brandon's Book Club? I started this in 2021, because through the pandemic, we're reading lots of books and trying to just get better and learn. And as I kept having conversations on the podcast, I thought, hey, look, let's just, maybe we can, one of the questions is, hey, what books are you reading? What do you got? I'm always looking for new good books. So I thought, hey, look, I read books with my leadership team all the time. We have kind of an internal book club where the leaders read books together and we talk about it and we get better. And so I thought I'd open that up to everybody out there. This is one of the books that we're reading as a leadership team. So I decided to bring it to everybody and hopefully introduce you to a new book and it is really good. Not only really good for what you do at work, but as I outlined in this interview, I talk about it in my personal life.

05:25And I want to preface this. I make a comment about laundry in here. My wife loves doing laundry. This is what she likes to do. She doesn't like me to, I have shrunk so many of her clothes. She said, do not touch the laundry. So I did laundry and I made a mistake. And I wasn't trying to imply that this is anything other than she wants to do it. Anyhow, let's jump in right now with Brandon's Book Club, The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership. We are talking about each other's glasses right now. You can see, you can see all of us and our glasses right now. Cause we are live on three platforms. We're live on YouTube. We are live on LinkedIn and we are live on Facebook. So to everybody out there in the world who's watching, which is nobody right now, we are talking.

06:25We have two guests here in the studio. We have Debra Sunderland and she is the owner of Sunderland, Debra Sunderland Coaching. Sunderland Coaching. Sunderland Coaching. That's what I put in the note, Sunderland Coaching. And then we have Stephen Smithing here, who is the owner of the Green Hills Grill Marable Restaurant in Chagos Cantina. The all new, it's one year anniversary last week. Chagos Belmont Cantina. Chagos Belmont. Is it really one year already? September 15th, one year. And this past weekend was the ninth anniversary of the Green Hills Grill coming back. Congratulations. Look at that. So nine years, one year. How many years have you had Marable? It opened there in 2001 and I've owned it since 2007. Wow. The math on that's out of control. I don't know why I can't do it. That's 17 years? I think so. Very nice. We are doing Brandon's Book Club today and we have chose the book, The 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership.

07:26There was like, you can do this, you can do this. This is the name of the book. And Debra has been a coach and she's worked with Stephen and I and we did our last episode with Debra several episodes ago, but we did it with Debra and we kind of, you and I sat down and talked about this book. Well, now we've invited everybody in the world to read it and Stephen's read it. How many times have you read it? One and a half. One and a half times. I think I'm at about the two times, maybe I'm almost done with two, but I still can't get past like commitment. Like one is so big and it's so complicated that like having somebody like you to really break it down and hold people accountable to what they're doing, the above the line, below the line, so important. So I don't hold people accountable. You hold people to impeccable agreements? No, I hold, I trust that when it's time for them to understand how to use these tools, they'll be open and aware to do it. And everyone's on a different place in their journey.

08:27Some people are closed and aren't open to learning. Some people are completely jumping in and then there's anywhere in between. So the book is not really about reading, it's about applying the tools when we get a result we don't want. And you're right, commitment one is huge because commitment one and two are the foundation for all the other commitments. It's how we create the results we want and implementing them and mastering, becoming masters of them. So let's break that down a second. You said committed to the results that we don't want. Let's talk about that. What does that mean? What are, when you say results that you don't want, obviously we know what that means, but let's go into deeper, the world's gonna world. What are results? What was the last part of it? What would you consider to be, here's what I'm saying. Results are what they are. The world is gonna continue to world. They're neither good nor bad, they are what is.

09:30That's a really interesting concept in itself. You wanna talk about it? So the mind likes to make up stories behind words. Words mean nothing until we put meaning behind them. And unconsciously, when we're not conscious, because we're working on the 15 minutes of conscious leadership, when we're unconscious, which is 96 to 98% of the time, just a reminder, we talked about this last time, so pretty much most of the time, all of us are on autopilot. And when we're having a story about a person, a situation, even a word and what it means, the mind is going to 96 to 98% of the time, tell us something negative, tell us something to keep us safe. It's not gonna be a joyful, peaceful, expansive growth thought. Why does our mind do that? Because it wants us to be safe. That's it. It just wants us to be, that's its main thing. And our work is to realize that we're in that state of safety, defense, and to get curious around how could I gain a new perspective, another meaning around the words I'm thinking, another way of being with the person in front of me or the results I have, instead of doing the same thing unconsciously below the line, expecting a different result, which isn't going to happen, but that's typically what most people do, and then they get upset with themselves or the people in their life or their work and want a different result, but really don't know how to get it there.

11:01And so they just work harder and harder and get very disenchanted. Steven, do you know what she's talking about? Well, she's pretty good at what she does, but it takes a while to understand and grasp it completely. I think one of the things Deborah showed me or Byron Katie says the story, a reality is often so much kinder than the story you're telling yourself in your head. And we are always telling ourselves how bad it is. Not always, we can say be positive, but there's so much reality to that truth. Yeah, that's a big part of it. So let's do a live, real thing. How I coach my CEOs and teams is say, bring me a result that you want to see different, a different outcome. So before we go that far, let's read the first commitment. Let's do it. Okay, beautiful. So the first commitment from an open trusting space says, I, which is above the line, I commit to taking full responsibility for the circumstances of my life and my physical, emotional, mental and spiritual wellbeing.

12:11I commit to support others to take full responsibility for their lives. Meaning it's up to them. Just like you, Steven and I, we can't change someone's thoughts. We can't change the way they feel. We can't change their behaviors. That's their responsibility. That's what that means. Below the line, I commit to blaming others and myself for what's wrong in the world. I commit to being a victim, villain or hero, and take more or less than 100% responsibility. And when we talk about 100% responsibility, it means really being aware of your own thoughts that lead to your feelings, that lead to your actions, that lead to what you have and not blaming yourself, but being fully aware that you are able to change the way you think, feel and behave to change your results. And it's practicing it over and over again. That's how we take responsibility. When we're not responsible, we can get caught up in our anger, we can get caught up in our sadness or fear. And they're all driven by toxic fear below the line, which is a defensive move, close-minded.

13:15You've referenced above the line and below the line a few times here. When you're conscious, you're above the line, and when you're unconscious, you're below the line? Correct. Is that the correct annotation? I just want, if you're listening to this and you've never read the book and you hear above the line, below the line, you're like, what is she talking about? Is there a little more in-depth you can go with that concept real fast? Because we're gonna reference it, I'm sure, for the next 45 minutes. So above the line is trusting that all things are for you, that people are for you, even the result you have and don't want, how is it your teacher and your growth to wake you up to the fact that you're unconsciously making a decision that led you to what you don't want, right? So you wanna get curious and trust that what is here is for your growth and learning always, or you're going to be below the line and you're going to defend that you're right about this decision you made, even though it's not working. You're gonna fight someone else and blame them for the result that you have.

14:19You're not going to get curious around how you unintentionally sabotage the outcome that you have because you don't wanna, you avoid yourself, you get angry at yourself, or you get angry at with someone else, or you become a victim to the world. If I just had this, the whole place of not having enough time, money, energy, love, clients, that's a below the line thinking. It's scarcity thinking versus abundant thinking, which is above the line. Thank you. That's really good. I, you know, you referenced results and kind of what I was asking at the beginning to kind of the thing that's been the most eye opening for me is that we try, we always look at numbers and we look at all these things. And I think you asked me one time, you said, what part do you play in a result that you don't want around an employee scenario? And I said, well, I didn't do anything there. And you said, what part do you play in the result that you don't want? And I think that you have to define what results are first, right? Because I don't think I understood exactly what a result was.

15:22I just thought that, you know, there was only like results to me meant good results. If there was a result that was negative, then it was a just a negative thing. Ah, okay. And in general, results are what they are. You can either hit your sales goal or not hit your sales goal. Either way, hitting your sales goal is good, not hitting your sales goals bad. That's out the window with this. The fact of the matter is there are sales at the end of a period, there are sales and those sales are what they are. They're neither good, they're neither bad. But if you wanted a result of a much higher number in sales, well, the actual result was what your sales were. And so the only thing you can do is get curious around, let's look at these sales. What do you think the sales, why did they get to that point and get curious around it? And then you can start making decisions so that next time the result can be different, right? I just want to tweak one thing. We don't use the word why.

16:22Yes, sorry. Yeah, so you know this. Okay, carry on. Why do we not use the word why when we get a result we don't want? I don't know. Because the ego is looking, when we use the word why, we know like we're like looking for blame. Something went wrong and we don't want to go down that wrong path. Like what's wrong with that person or what's wrong with me? So you just want to be like, hmm. I like to use the tone, the words or the sound, hmm. Okay. How did I unintentionally create something that I don't want or even that I don't have? So both. It could be something you've been really seeking and you haven't been able to achieve it or it could be a result you're like, gosh, this really sucks and I don't want this. How did I unintentionally create it and doing the hmm. So using the word how because then it gets a more expansive thought. I think that we look at this in a business sense, right? You're constantly thinking about it. We're talking to CEOs but this works in your personal life. I, the other day, I went to Atlanta for an event and I came home and I did not unpack, right?

17:30And then the day before I had to go to Louisville for another event and I just unpacked all my stuff and I threw it in the washing machine because my wife does the laundry. That's kind of her thing. She doesn't like me doing laundry but the clothes went in the washing machine and then the next day I needed some of those clothes to leave and I go, where are they? They're not hanging up because normally these were not dry. Don't dry these clothes. I'm not gonna tell that story. Well, no, I'm just saying like, she was very, she put the clothes in the dryer and I was like, you can't, these aren't dry clothes. These are clothes that need to be hung, hang dried, air dried, whatever. And she goes, well, you didn't tell me that. You just put them in the washer. And I wanted to go, but you know that these are, and then I thought and I went, well, the result here is the fact that my clothes are in the dryer and I did not communicate that, hey, these are hang only clothes. These need to be put there. And so I can't, like the result was what it was. I couldn't be mad at anything. I have to look and go, what part did I play in the result that I didn't want?

18:33Beautiful, this is lovely. Is that right? That's exactly right. And so we say, oh, well, this is a personal thing, but our thinking is the same, whether we're personally having a relationship or we're in a relationship in business and business is all about relationships. First of all, relationship to self. What am I thinking? What am I believing? How am I, what are my action steps that lead me to the result I have? And then relationship with each other. How did I communicate or not communicate? Was I speaking too quickly or not speaking quickly? Did I assume someone, what she did with your wife, you assumed, not thinking you did, you just did it unconsciously, probably because she's done this so well for you in the past, you didn't think there was gonna be any issue. And so I love that you got curious because you're like, hmm, so next time, I'm gonna slow down and make up a story. You might be thinking next time, I'm gonna slow down and make sure my dear wife who does my laundry knows that- Who's amazing. And if she won't let me do laundry, this feels like I kinda did the wrong thing by putting it in there myself anyway, but- Yeah, well, that's about getting clear.

19:36And that's a whole, that's commitment six. How do we build clarity and impeccable agreements with one another? Because people, again, have different ideas of even laundry, right? And we'd make a lot of assumptions unintentionally. We're on autopilot. You're on autopilot. You know where to put the things in the wash and off you are running. And your autopilot is thinking, my wife's gonna take care of this. Well, beautiful until it doesn't work. So there's always a honing on things don't come out the way we want. Then we, like you always said earlier and are now saying is, hmm, how did I unintentionally create the results I don't want? What's my responsibility that I have something I don't want? So it's really great because then we're always just testing and tweaking. That's what I tell my people. I'm like, can we just test and tweak in life? Can we just try something and learn from it and just tweak ourselves and how we're being with what our outcome is instead of blaming ourselves or shaming because you could have gotten really mad at your wife.

20:37Well, so many- You ruined my new clothes or whatever it was. Yeah, I mean, this is a domestic thing where people that could start a fight in a lot of relationships- You did that on purpose. Yeah, like what do you, like, and I just, it was that moment of like, oh no, I can't be upset with you that you did nothing wrong. This is a result. It is what it is. I can't change it at this point. And then I have to look back and go, well, I don't know. Stephen, do you have any examples? We're not talking about laundry or your wife, but- Yeah, give us a work one. I'm pretty blessed that I learned how to iron as a young man. Yeah, well, that's what work in a restaurant will do for you. Going to seventh grade, I had to iron my own shirts, so. Yeah, Stephen, do you have a result at work right now that you would like different? I think we, all the time, every day you have a result at work that you wish was different. So give us a specific one right now, something that we can play with here. Well, I'm trying to think of something guest-based or, you know, when you have a guest who orders something different than what is on the menu, which happens all the time. We encourage this in our business.

21:38You know, we have a cooler full of food and talented people, tell me what you want. And at times they'll get it all right, we'll bring it in and we'll say, okay, we did this, we put this on the side, this on the side, we made it extra, we poached it. And then you take it out there and they're still disappointed. They're like, that's not what I wanted. And it's hard at that point, not to say, brr, brr, brr, brr, and you just have to say, okay, what part of, and it could be, we didn't really listen, we didn't hear the guest. So tell us what normally happens when you're not conscious, what happens when you do all this beautiful extra work to make sure the client's happy and they're not happy. You go in the kitchen and then you tell everybody what a terrible person that is, and they didn't tell us what they wanted and they should have just ordered off the menu. No, and this happens all the time. When you get good at it, like we have, it's not a big deal. You just shift and pivot and you say, okay, let's do it again. You listen a little bit better, I think. What exactly did you want?

22:38You know, I had a woman the other day, she just wanted her fish poached. That's pretty easy to do, we can do that. So it's right. So normally we would go into the back, into the kitchen, back of the work and be like, gosh, this woman, what the heck is wrong with her? She said she wanted this and now we have this and now this is a waste of time and money because we gotta throw away this food and she's probably gonna give us a bad review and there goes blah, blah, blah. And I think culturally for us, you just have to have a culture where you're not allowed to do that. You have to immediately catch it and say, let's assume that this is our fault. Well, I would caution that too because you don't wanna have, that's not allowed because that's just where the brain always goes to everyone. Our brain is gonna always naturally blame someone. So we wanna say it's okay if you're in that space, the work is to teach your people to notice that they have that thought that's causing them to not feel great, that's causing them to like be a victim, that they've gotta make more food and then they're going to blame someone because they have to make more food instead of being like, huh, going to the table and saying, let's just say this woman's name is Jane.

23:45Hey Jane, you know, thank you for ordering and being here and taking a risk and coming to our restaurant and having food and we must have miscommunicated and please help us understand more specifically what it is. Maybe I wasn't listening fully when you said something or maybe I didn't write it down correctly. Tell me again specifically what it is you would like, right? Because we all miscommunicate, we miscommunicate with ourselves, we miscommunicate with our kids, our spouses. That's really all what it is, is that we miscommunicate. That's what I look back- Or don't communicate. Well, when I look back at the part I play in the result that I don't want, 93.72% of the time, it is, I didn't communicate effectively what my expectations were and then the result was not what my expectations were and then I go back and I go, I could have communicated that better. I could have, I could have communicated one more person.

24:45I could have wrote it down. I could have, and then the next time you'd think I would do it better next time, but then the next time I come back and I go, oh damn, I did that again. Well, and thank you for saying that because this is not a one and done thing. This is a Michael Jordan expert champion work. It is constantly learning at every single, if you're brave enough to look at yourself, if you're brave enough and loving enough to give yourself trust and love to the other people in your world, the world's your oyster and you will learn very quickly and you will get new results very quickly and your revenue's gonna spiral, your culture's gonna change because you're not gonna be blaming each other and let me tell you, 98% of the cultures that I've been in are toxic. What I mean by toxic is people are trying to control each other, they're trying to blame each other, there is gossip and there isn't trust. So it's a culture that isn't thriving.

25:46We think that revenue is gonna help us thrive. Revenue comes from our decision making, our thinking, our action steps that are driven by our feelings. Well, people try to change the revenue or an outcome and we can't do that. We can only change what brings us to revenue and what brings us to our outcomes. So we must be masters decision makers, master decision makers and knowing where am I making my decision from? Is it open and curious and trusting or is it I'm taking on more than my responsibility because I don't trust Stephen to deliver the right food to Jane so I'm gonna step in anyway and he's gonna then feel not trusted or he's gonna feel not worthy like I don't trust him. We talked about victim, villain or hero below the line. We play these roles. So as a hero, leaders many times take on more than their responsibility because they want it done a certain way, they want it done at a certain time or because it's a very important client and this my employee or my partner isn't gonna do it the way I want and so they step in and take on more than their responsibility.

26:50They're on the triangle taking, playing hero. Hero creates a victim mentality for the other person meaning Stephen would be like, okay, well, Deborah's just gonna do it anyway so why bother? She's gonna know how to take the orders better than I am so I'm just gonna let her do it because she doesn't trust me. Eventually that's what's gonna, that's what would happen. That's what it says. Yeah, that's what would happen and then I eventually am gonna blame him because I'm gonna get so many orders coming in because I don't trust him and I'm gonna continue to wait on all these people and I'm gonna exhaust myself and I'm gonna be the villain. Like why can't he just get it? I've told him before this is how you take an order. I told him before this is how you listen or I told him before this is what you ask. And around and around we go. That's what below the line looks like when we take on more than our responsibility and I'd say, I gave you that specific formula, hero, victim, villain, because that's typically what CEOs, business owners do. They do that pattern. There are other patterns, but that's a main one. Well, I think that in restaurants particular where you're in one building and many jobs mesh together where you could be a busser today, you could be taking orders, you could be a manager, an expediter, a host, a maitre d, I mean, there's a million different things that are all kind of interchangeable as a team.

28:06And I see it a lot that leaders will all just do it. And we're dealing with this situation right now where somebody is just saying, I'll just do it because if I don't do it, nobody will. And it's a mentality of, well, then you're just gonna hero everything and leave everybody else to just feel like, well, you don't trust me to do it anyway. And that breeds, that's that toxic. It's toxic. And I like to say to CEOs when I first start working with them, when I look at their website, most people have a website and they put it up there with these beautiful culture stories about how their company really is. And you get in there, I've been there before, I've worked in corporate and it is not anything like they say it is. Well, what the heck? Right, and then people get mad. This isn't what they told me it was gonna be like. And then people get disenchanted, they get discouraged and then they don't fully show up. We have the worst engagement of employees ever in all of history.

29:08It's continuing to spiral down. And people think, oh, if I give them more money, they're gonna do better. Or, oh, if I give them a trip, they're gonna wanna stay. And every day is not gonna matter for a once in a lifetime, a trip. We need to teach our people, we care about them, we trust them and outing when I don't maybe trust them. So I could go to Steven and be like, hey, Steven, I noticed that I wanna trust you. And I noticed that I'm creating the pattern of taking on more than my responsibility by going in and taking other people's orders. And what I wanna do is build a clear communication with you and how do we build trust between us so that you can go and take the orders and I don't have to. And we can have a conversation around it. And he could give me his thoughts and opinions. So what would you say, Steven? How you wanna build, building trust that you're going to take the orders and listen to people. How might that look for you? Well, I think in the case that we were talking about earlier, the person who, if I step in every time in Hero, then inevitably the server says, what am I supposed to do?

30:16And typically when people ask that question, they don't do anything. Right, so I'm asking you, we're having a conversation now because I'm the one that's not trusting you. So I'm coming to you and saying, Steven, I wanna build a trusting relationship with you because I'm outing, I'm revealing myself. We wanna be authentic in our leadership and we wanna be vulnerable in our leadership because we're all the same. We all have the same mind that wants to win and somehow doesn't get there many of the times. So I would say, Steven, I noticed I'm taking on more than my responsibility. How does that feel when I step in and take the order and it's your table? How do you feel when I do that? I feel like I'm not valued. You feel, yeah, exactly. And I don't want that for you. So what would, how can we build trust? How can we communicate better around taking the order and you taking care of the table? So it would be good for you. Well, typically, and one of the things you often say is stay in your lane. And my job as the owner of the restaurant isn't to take an order unless there really isn't anybody there.

31:19I know for right now, we're pretending you're not the owner. I have a real scenario from yesterday that I could, that's the same thing. We were at Chago's last night. I'm not gonna reveal anybody's names or anything, but this moment actually happened last night. And I did not reveal this in the moment. So this is, we'll go real time, Steven. He looks nervous. He's like, what the fuck are you gonna say? I was there for a part of the time. I identified something. Somebody, one of our employees said something to another manager and the other manager told me what this employee said. And I was like, no, this is not acceptable. We put a plan around it. We outlined everything. We know what we're gonna do. And Steven was there and I said, I'm gonna tell you what this person said, but it's, and it's not good, but I'm gonna, I've got a plan around it. And I said, this person said this thing. And he goes, oh, you can't do that. I can come in tomorrow and I can talk to him. And I go, no, I just told you, we have a plan around it. We're gonna handle this. They're like, well, I could be a part of that. And it's like, I got it. Like I, and it was that exact moment where I was like, do you not trust that I just told you everything I'm gonna do, here's my solution. And he's- So beautiful, right?

32:20So let Steven go back to that moment that he's talking about. Do you remember? Okay, beautiful. So just, if you're willing to be vulnerable, and this is a push, if you guys are on the Enneagram, if you know anything about the Enneagram, we're dealing with two beautiful eights here. They're both eights, which means they are the active controller. They are powerhouses. If there is a fire in a building, you wanna follow them, they're gonna get you out safely. However, they like to control every outcome. And so they, the reason they do that is they unintentionally were born into the world, believing it is not a trusting place. So their work is to start to trust. So you can see that this is coming up here. He's not trusting Brandon, not intentionally, just unintentionally. So- For whomever's gonna take care of that situation. Yeah, so, okay, so at that moment, you weren't trusting him, but tell us how, in that moment, when he was telling you he has a plan, what were you feeling? Would you be vulnerable enough to share what you were feeling at that moment? We're gonna take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. At What Chefs Want, they deliver the seven most needed product lines to meet the unique needs of chefs and restaurateurs.

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36:45This is just one of the many reasons SuperSource is taking over this city for dish machine and chemicals. You need to call Jason Ellis. His number is 770-337-1143. And he would love it if you would give him a call and let him come down and just check out your operation, meet him, say hi, see if there's any way he can help. He is here to help you succeed. That's Jason Ellis with SuperSource 770-337-1143. How, in that moment, when he was telling you he has a plan, what were you feeling? Would you be vulnerable enough to share what you were feeling at that moment? I think what I was feeling when I heard the plan is that I believe I have a connection with this person who- Okay, that's a thought. What were you feeling? Were you feeling sad, angry, happy? Oh, probably more on the angry or sad side. Okay, beautiful. That something is not going to happen. And that we're going to get the same result that we were getting the day before? Beautiful, okay. So as leaders of consciousness, we're not going there now, but commitment three is about using our emotional intelligence.

37:49And when we are driven by emotions, because we have a thought, a feeling, a behavior, that's what we have to master. That's what commitment one is about. If we let the feeling drive us, we know how that's gonna go. It's not gonna go well. So what we wanna do is pause and notice ourselves. Notice that I'm reacting, which we all do. This is the way our body protects us. This is the way our mind protects us. It gets an emotion. And then it gets right about whatever that emotion is. And so for Steven, it was anger and a little bit of sadness. He was angry that something wasn't happening the way it should and sad that this could happen again and it hasn't been mastered yet in all the years that Steven has been running a business. He has sadness. He's put a lot of effort into it. And so that makes sense. So Steven, next time could notice, take a few deep breaths, coming into your breath and breathing three deep breaths when you are starting to get overwhelmed with an emotion. You don't have to judge yourself. All emotions are for us.

38:49There is no wrong emotion. There's no right emotion. It just is like Brandon was saying. It's just an experience we're having. There's nothing ever wrong with you, dear ones who are listening. We are wired with so much intelligence. We have body intelligence, emotional intelligence, and obviously our IQ, but we tend to use just our brain. We wanna use emotional intelligence and body intelligence, which is far more greater than our brain, but we tend to focus on our brain. So Steven next time could be like, okay, take a few deep breaths to get present because when he got upset, he was going into the future thinking, oh, if we don't master this, tomorrow's gonna be the same old thing and then we're gonna lose maybe an employee or a client's not gonna be happy and then they're gonna leave and then ultimately they're gonna lose. Our brain goes very quickly to the worst. Take a few deep breaths, get present. And I was listening to solve the problem rather than to hear how the problem was solved. Beautiful, beautiful. Like he was listening for that. He's looking for in his, when we're below the line, dear ones, I want you to know this.

39:52We are right about something. Our mind is defending us and gosh darn it, it's putting a stake in the ground and it is getting really serious around how things should be, how I should be, how you should be, how the outcome should be. That's what we mean by being right and we should on ourselves and we should on our other people and we. I can fix that. Yeah, and then we get scared, okay? Everyone gets afraid and I know leaders don't want to say, I'm afraid, but yes, you are. And once you realize that there's anxiety or fear coming up, feel it all the way through, breathe three times and then get curious and wonder, how is this going to help me in this situation? How is it for me and Brandon to communicate better? How is it for me to, for Stephen, it would be how can I trust Brandon more? That's a great opportunity for him to trust him more. Say, okay, I might not have to understand or I might not even have to know the whole plan that Brandon has, but here's an opportunity for me to grow trust with him because Brandon, when he doesn't trust you, yesterday, how did that feel on the other side?

41:01I think that the sadness would be the word. I want that so badly. But also, I mean, I don't know how to say this. I have so much trust for Stephen and what it is and I've been learning to recognize in that moment what that feels like because unconsciously, I know he trusts me. I know that all of these things are, it's okay, it's gonna work out, but I'm learning to recognize those moments so that I can fall up and say, hey, in that moment, I felt like you didn't trust me. That's not really the word. In that moment, I felt sad because my impression was that you didn't trust me from that statement. So commitment four, we're going into commitment four, we're bouncing around here. Commitment four is speaking unarguably. What's just true for you? So in that moment, you could say, Stephen, gosh, I appreciate you wanting to step in. Yesterday, when I was sharing with you, I have a plan and you weren't willing, my thought was you weren't willing to hear me and trust me, I felt sad. What I most want is for us to build trust and for you to trust me.

42:03And I go into four, or is it four candor? Commitment four, candor and withholding. I think that this is one of those things that you don't wanna do is you don't wanna expect, if you get in a scenario where you expect that to be the response, that's when withholding comes into play. We're like, well, I'm not gonna say that in front of them again, because I don't wanna have that emotion again. So you start kind of choosing what you share and that's not candor, that's not healthy, that's below the line stuff. Yeah, good noticing. And it's also a way you protect yourself. I'm not gonna say that because, and whenever we do something, because something on the outside is we're trying to control an outside. Yeah. Okay, I want you guys to notice, is this how we make ourselves small? Leaders make themselves small, they make their teams small, because they jockey for position on how they wanna say something, they couch the words or they tamp it down or they believe someone really can't hear me, they're not strong enough to hear me, they put them in the victim hood position unintentionally and so they hold their thoughts and emotions back.

43:13Instead of having a vulnerable, open conversation in a company, we all have these withholds and when we don't speak clearly and hear each other without filters, just allowing people to be themselves and share, we start to build silos, we put up walls and we spiral down and it doesn't feel good energetically when we hold things and our responsibility coming back to commitment one is to be revealing, is to reveal just my thought, my feeling and my want. That's all we're doing, want held loosely, not meaning it has to happen, just so someone knows you, right? And we want to know each other because we all have brilliant minds, we all have brilliant ideas of how we could do something but we have to be open to sharing and also we have to be open to hearing each other and that is, people say, I don't have time for that. Well, if we don't take time for it, we're gonna continue to do the same thing over and over and over again and waste time, money and energy. I think that happens every day in almost every company out there.

44:13It's probably the hardest thing and I think that we've been working pretty well on having more candor and just, and sometimes it's tough to hear, sometimes it's tough to hear some of the things because I wanna live in this bubble where I believe something and then when I, when he reveals to me how something I did make some feel or whatever it is, it's eye-opening and I think the hardest part for me, the most difficult thing in all of this is the pause, right? So when you have that emotion, when you have that feeling like last night, I would never have told you, oh, in that moment I felt sad or I didn't feel trust. I recognized or it was more of a frustration or maybe it was more anger because I was like, I just said I'm gonna do this, like I got this kind of a thing. You're like back off, buddy. Well, I mean, but also I have no problem with him. It's not like he's gonna do anything different. But in your unconscious mind, you're like back off. I think stopping for a second when I recognize that like going in the other room, going over to the bathroom and taking a few deep breaths and saying, what emotion am I feeling right now?

45:18And why it's like the most powerful thing that is the hardest thing for me because everything is go, go, go, go, go. And so that pause and going, what am I feeling right now? And I love the idea that when you say the words like or about, I feel like it's not a feeling. That's not a feeling. A feeling is happy anger, sadness, joy and sexual feelings is what they call in the book, creative energy. Well, like kind of like creative energy better. It's recognizing which one of those things. So when you say I'm feeling frustration, I'm feeling anger around why there's a why again, why am I feeling that? But getting curious around that feeling and feeling it all the way through. So I really wanna say something cause you mentioned something is really important cause we're talking about commitment one. Again, we don't wanna say, well, you made me feel this because again, guys, no one can make you feel sad, angry, fearful, frustrated, irritated. It is your thinking about the words they are saying that brings your emotions.

46:23So you thought Steven isn't listening to me again and I wish he would. I'm just making up a story here. And I wish he would. And I'm sad that we're in this place of we've known each other for eight years and he's still not, this is all very quick. Our mind does this. We have 65,000 thoughts a day. So all of a sudden you're getting all these quick thoughts download in your mind. And the thoughts are thoughts you've had in the past. The thoughts aren't gonna be new thoughts. The thoughts are gonna be the ones you've listened to before and acted on. So it gives you a lot of options, but your mind unintentionally, unconsciously, unaware to you is going to pick the thoughts and have you believe them and act on them automatically because your brain is always looking to keep you safe. And it's not gonna pick a new thought. A new thought is not safe to your unconscious mind. So that's why the work is I better go take a break and go pause, like you said, and go take a breather, get outside, go to the bathroom, go to a different room, know yourself because it is automatically gonna keep you repeating the same pattern between the two of you unless you pause, right?

47:36It is deep, masterful work, but it will change your life. It will change your relationships and it will change your revenue. There he goes a lot. Well, and sometimes you have to listen better. In that case, I needed to listen better. Yeah, beautiful. The story I tell myself is that he was wanting my creative energy to help solve this problem. Right, and it's interesting. So guys, whenever we do this, I want you to notice the pattern that your mind has, the unintentional saboteur mind, how it puts you in this box. And I want you to notice how it does it over and over and over again by telling you certain stories, by telling you certain beliefs. Like for me, I'll tell you right now, I have a belief about my daughter-in-law and my son. I did the work, Byron Katie work, which is commitment 10 on Sunday, and I had the unconscious belief that she is looking for, what was my word? She is looking for how I'm not good enough and I'm wrong.

48:38So I did the work and guess what? I did the work on how I tell myself, I am believing I am not good enough and enough. It's the work of what am I believing, not the work of what she's believing, because like Stephen or you said, what lane am I in, the three lanes that I teach, my lane, your lane, God the universe's lane. If we get out of our lane of who we're called to be, what we're here to do, which means how we think, feel, behave, and the results we have, we are going to suffer. And we suffer because we try to change outcomes and people, and we can't do that. And we waste money, energy, time, getting in someone else's lane. I can't tell you how much revenue is lost by doing this. Powerful words. Matt, I just, I can't imagine this works so well in other industries, because everything that you're saying really drives home so many facets of this particular industry.

49:46I mean, it's wild, it's absolutely wild. There's a lot of stories. Oh my God. I just wanted to say that guys, we can just say whatever industry you're in, we can just call it the people story industry and ourselves. It doesn't matter if you're a manufacturer, if you're in tech, if you're in healthcare, if you own restaurants, because we're human. And until people, and you can have, like we talked about before, you can have strategies. Strategies are great, whether it's EOS or whatever strategy you use. But strategies are only as good like your plan that you came up with yesterday for the restaurant. The plan is only as good as the person implementing it, as the person who is seeing it, speaking it, living it. This 15 commitments is a strategy, but it is only as good as if you know it and practice it every moment. Well, my strategy is coaching the person who's this person's direct report to handle it. It's not my baby, so to speak.

50:47I need to teach them in this scenario, how to get curious around what we've done and then to find the solution and then how to execute the conversation. It's not me stepping in to do it because then I'm trying to hero the person whose responsibility that it is. And I'm creating that distrust in them by me coming in and doing it now. If they ask me, hey, will you sit in with me? And I'm going to, because they did ask me this. They want me in this meeting, but I'm gonna let them do most of the conversation because, and I'll jump in where I need to, but I want this person to know. Write that on your hand. I have to shit, right? Okay, and I want to go. But this is where I want them to build this and make mistakes, whatever, but we'll coach after that. And I do want to mention something. I had a little bit of fear come up with me earlier when you first brought this up, when someone came to you about this other person and they said something gossip. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's what I wanted to talk about. And I was going to say, we have like 15 minutes left. This is commitment five, commitment five, guys. We're bouncing around all these things, but we want to be radically responsible to stay in our lane.

51:50We were having a meeting about this particular person and this came up as part of the discovery. So this isn't a, in the hallway, somebody, did you hear this person said this? Did this manager already talk to this person before they came to you? Yes. And was it a curious, kind, loving conversation? Probably not. Okay, beautiful. So that will be work for you to coach them on. Yes. Hey, let's look at how did you feel when you noticed this about this person? You can ask your person that you're coaching what were your thoughts that brought that feeling? How did you behave when you felt that way and were having those thoughts? And how did you approach this person? Just so you can know yourself. All we're doing, guys, is knowing ourself more. That's what self-awareness is, that's what consciousness is. If we take responsibility to be aware of ourselves, our lives will change, our businesses will change. So you're this beautiful, you're gonna teach him that. And then you can say, coach him on, how might you want to talk to him next time when you get triggered? Because we mostly are speaking out of when we're below the line, we're triggered.

52:53Okay, so how would you want to coach him on that? Oh, well, I think you have to get curious around what he was feeling. I mean, it's weird because as a parent, Dr. Becky has a book called Good Inside. Wait, wait, let's just stay right here. But this is, it's a similar kind of a thing. Let's just say with this one thing, just for time. Okay. So what would you, what's, make up a name. So you're the person that came to you to say- Irimo. Irimo, okay. We have nobody in the company named Irimo, so that makes sense. Oh, Irimo, okay. So Irimo comes up to you and tells you about one of the restaurant workers, and you're like, oh boy, because you can already notice he's not in a good place. He's upset. He's probably below the line. How did it make you feel when they said that? What emotions did you feel in that moment? So when someone, dear leaders, when someone on your team comes to upset, I would then say, can we just take a few deep breaths right now? Instead of, because we can be below the line, but we can spiral way below the line by all the stories you believe. And then we feel worse and worse and worse. So we want to stop them to say, hey, would you take a few deep breaths with me?

53:57I noticed that you're upset right now. It's okay to be upset. We all get upset. Would you take a few deep breaths? And they might even need to go outside the restaurant because maybe he's really angry and that's okay too. Let that go. Do you want to regulate the emotion? Regulate the emotion, because when someone is very triggered and emotional, they are not able to hear. For Steve, I'm brought up hearing. We can't hear each other. When we're in defense and below the line, which most meetings and companies happen, we can't hear each other. And we're all fighting for what we think is right. That's why we have meetings over and over again that don't go anywhere because people are in defense. So you stop him and say, hey, take a few deep breaths with me. You're right where you need to be. I understand. I understand this emotion. Then you can say, once he calms down, and that only takes up to 90 seconds, guys. Emotions come through us in 90 seconds or less. And they can be big waves of emotion or tiny waves or anywhere in between. So then you could say, okay, what emotion do you, were you upset? Were you feeling angry?

54:57Because sometimes people don't know their emotions yet. Were you feeling angry? Were you feeling frustrated? Were you feeling scared? Tell me what you're feeling. Then you could be like, yeah, I was feeling scared and angry. Okay, beautiful. What thought were you having when you started to notice you had these emotions? He could be like, well, I've already told this person, this busser or waiter or waitress, servant, whatever you call them, servers. I already told them this, and I'm frustrated that I have to keep telling them this. Okay, great. Thank you for telling me. Could it be true that they might not be understanding something? Yeah, it could be true. Okay, let's get curious around how your conversation has gone with this person before and where might there be more clarity? Let's just get curious together. Would you be willing to do that? He might be, yeah, cool. Because again, you want to remind him, there's no blame here. I'm not blaming you. I'm just here to learn. And you're gonna teach him because you're a learner yourself. So let's learn together. And then you can go backwards. What have you already done in the past that you believe should have worked?

55:59Should have, right? And what else might you do in the future? Get curious and I write it down because our brain is gonna forget because it's gonna go back to the old thoughts, the old statements to self. Write down the new thoughts that you wanna create. And then you can say, what support would you like going forward around your server? So you're not stepping in and taking your responsibility or you're asking him going forward, what support do you wanna have? What do you wanna have in place around communication growth together? What could we do together to grow together so we can be better communicators? He might say, let's do this once a week. Great, you bring every result that's not working to me and we'll practice how we could be better at this. That would be a great thing to teach them. Let's make up a story here. No, I think those are all really good things and I'm gonna use a lot of that today before we go into the meeting. But while you were saying this, I was thinking about my comment to Steven last night and I feel like that was below the line.

56:59Gossip, the fact that I told him what I told him when I told him, that was good. I knew he was gonna, you know, I told him an inflammatory. 10 seconds after I walked in the restaurant. I mean, it wasn't 10 seconds, we were talking for minutes. Pretty close. The fact that I even said that was a below the line statement because I knew how he was gonna react because it was an inflammatory thing that somebody said in his restaurant that goes against all of our core values. It wouldn't be withholding for me to not tell him that story. I told him that story because I knew how he was gonna react because I wanted that reaction from him. And then I go back and I look at it and I go, well, I said this and then he, like I knew he was gonna, but like it's, and I said it in front of Christopher's brother too and it's like, it was a below the line statement for me to say what I said in the context. It was gossip. Beautiful. Is what I did in that moment. Yeah. And so we do these things. That's the result that I, I guess I wanted. So beautiful. This is, I'm gonna stop this right now because we're almost at time. This is fantastic noticing of yourself.

58:01Fantastic. I applaud you. There's no blame or shame. I love that you were seeing this pattern that you had with Steven and with Christopher and it's beautiful. And so you knew that he, guys, we do these things. We stay below the line because it temporarily feels good. It temporarily feels good to our ego. It temporary feels good, but then until it doesn't, especially gossip because we know in the end, if we're a gossiper, we know that it's not good when we do that. And also if we're the other side of gossiping, we learn, oh gosh, that person is a gossiper. Then if they're doing that to me, they're probably gonna do it about me to other people. So then we know, right? So we do it until it doesn't work. So just notice all the patterns we do below the line and it gives us a temporary feel good until it doesn't. Being right feels good. We don't do that on purpose. It feels great to be defensive. It feels good to be right until we have broken down relationships until we get results we don't want.

59:01And so beautiful noticing. Okay, so I'm gonna read one last, I'm gonna read right again before we close above the line commitment one, taking radical responsibility. I commit to taking full responsibility for the circumstances of my life, which I'm also gonna put work and my physical, emotional, mental, spiritual wellbeing. I commit to support others to take full responsibility for their lives. And when we say responsibility, we're not saying what the outcome is, full responsibility. We're taking responsibility for how I created something that I don't want. That's what we mean. And below the line, I commit to blaming others and myself for what is wrong in the world. I commit to taking, I commit to being a victim, villain or hero and take more than my responsibility or less than my responsibility. And again, guys, 95 to 98% of the time, 96 to 98% of the time, this is what science says that we are unconscious, unaware on autopilot and we are playing defense motions.

01:00:01And this book is about how we do that and how to get out of it. I love having you in my presence. Do you know, we haven't, I haven't had a session with you in a few weeks and I- That's why I showed up. I mean, you get in this, like we, I get back in, this is not like you can go to the gym and you can start seeing results. But if you stop going to the gym, you stop seeing results. Like, and this is something you have to constantly be working on. And I think I get caught up in all my own shit and I don't, I don't go back and listen and read and focus on, there's concepts I've picked up really well that I hone in on, but it's really a mastery of all of these things together in fluid motion that every time you're in the room, we go, man, this is really good stuff. Like just breaking down my own drama from last night. Yeah, so I just want to share that I, I've been doing this for 11 years intensively. I studied with Jim Dathmer, the founder, for at least, I calculate at least 2000 hours, at least that many hours, at least.

01:01:08And I still, before I got my certification and I have, and I got my certification 10 years ago, this work is something I practice all the time because the quicker I can catch them below the line, the less I suffer. The quicker I can tell myself, what am I believing here? How can I love myself? How can I feel? How can I take a few deep breaths? How can I step out of the drama? Because the ego wants to take everything seriously and it's like do or die, right? I don't want to live that way. I want to live a life of peace, contentment, play, curiosity, because that is more fun. Heck yeah it is. The unconscious mind is not a fun or a safe place to live. It's a scary place to live. So we want to question that unconscious mind because it's the only way we can have wellbeing and we want wellbeing in our organizations. Again, the only way we can have wellbeing is if we're responsible for being well ourselves and teaching our beautiful, amazing people in our lives and in our workspaces how they can be well by noticing how their feelings come up when they have a belief.

01:02:11It's the beliefs that have to be questioned because if they're not, we spiral down and end up in a really scary, scary place. So it is so important that we know we have tools inside of us to know that we are more than our thoughts, we are more than our feelings, that we are more than our unconscious mind, yet we're unconscious 96 to 98% of the time. We have to master our mind. We have to become masters like Michael Jordan if we want to have peace, love, connection and more revenue. And it takes a lot of work. And it takes a lot of work and it is the work to do instead of keep doing the work that isn't working and do more of an expected result, which we know is insanity, that's what most people do. I don't have time for this, so I'm gonna keep doing the same thing and get the same result and suffer more. So please guys, don't suffer. Reach out to us. We have, October, would you tell us when our event is? I was gonna say, if you want to, if you're hearing this and you're like, wow, this is really impactful stuff, I'd like to do more with that.

01:03:15You're going to be hosting on October the 16th. It's a three hour workshop? Is that what it is? How long is it? Hold on, let me look at it. Yes, it is three hours and I've made it really friendly for everyone who wants to come. It's on Eventbrite. It is from one to four p.m. You can reach out to me at Debra, D-E-B-R-A at Sunderland, S-U-N-D-E-R-L-A-N-D, coaching.com, if you would like information. It is live in Nashville. I'll give you the details there. Bring you, bring your team, bring your people, bring your spouse, bring your kids, bring anyone who wants to practice getting out of drama. This is what we call. And then Brandon, what are we gonna do to keep learning and growing together? I think we're gonna do a podcast, right? Yes. We're gonna be talking about this more often on a monthly basis. Let's do it monthly.

01:04:16Monthly basis, we're gonna be discussing more of these principles and I'm gonna continue to learn myself. I am so, I have so much to learn as far as this goes but I need to keep sharpening my pencil too and I'm excited to facilitate this and we're gonna be doing more conversations with Debra and I don't know what that looks like, who our guests will be or what that is. We haven't gone into all the details but that is something that we're gonna be doing going forward. So. If you wanna be on here, let us know if you'd like to be a guest and bring it live issue and we'll support you in that issue. Next time we talk, we'll be looking at the biggest other platform of this work is Commitment2 which is getting curious around the results that we have. I think we're talking about maybe doing a Facebook. Are we gonna do a Facebook live? Can we bring? We can do this like this is right now. This is live, we do LinkedIn live. We can do it just like we're doing now. Okay, yeah. And anybody can join. Yeah, that would be awesome. Anyone can join and I really would love for you to jump in next time if you would like and bring your issue, bring your complaint.

01:05:19It's okay, bring it, bring it, man. Bring the result you wanna see change and you're not getting the result you want. You may be beating your head against the wall and it ain't happening. Steven, do you have any final words? No, I'm good. I appreciate Deborah's work and it's been very meaningful to me. I appreciate you for coming today. I know you had a busy morning and you coming by and thank you for all that you do for obviously me and thanks for being here. And Deborah, thank you for taking the time this morning to come in for Brandon's Book Club. We've been talking about the 15 Commitments of Conscious Leadership and we will see you again soon. Stay tuned at Nashville Western Radio for more content with Deborah Sunderland. Thank you, thank you, everyone. Thank you for being here and listening. Thank you, Steven, for practicing for a while with me. Thank you, Brandon, for getting excited about this and knowing that you are the change. We are the change, so thank you for that. You got it. Yeah. Sounds good. Well, I hope you enjoyed that therapy session with all of us.

01:06:20That was a lot of fun and really we, it's interesting if that type of conversation to you seems crazy, like these are things that we talk about on a regular basis. We have a very open, still great relationship where we are very vulnerable with each other and we're not perfect and it's okay to say, hey, I didn't feel like you trusted me in that moment or hey, I think that you can break down these individual conversations that we have every single day and you start to recognize them in other parts of your life and it's really good. It's, this is all stuff that we all need to do to grow. And so I shared that today. I was a little nervous about doing so, but we did and there it is. So hopefully that you got something out of that and hopefully you enjoyed that. I don't have the next book yet because I'm still gonna focus on this book for a little while and like Deborah said, we're gonna start doing a show where we talk a little bit more about this. I don't know if it's gonna be necessarily on Nashville Western Radio or we do something a little bit different, but there will be more content around this.

01:07:24So if you have not got that book and this is something that's interesting to you, we'd love to have you jump in as a little side project that you could be working on, even with your leadership team. October 16th, we're gonna be doing a fun, I'm not doing it, Deborah's doing it. She's hosting a three hour retreat. It's gonna be a bunch of people together. She's gonna talk about these principles. You're gonna be able to be involved and have conversations like this and break down particular scenarios that are happening in your business because you know what, it happens everywhere and it's okay. So go to sunderlandcoaching.com and get your tickets. There's Eventbrite ticket and come in and I will be there and I would love to have you there too. So thanks for listening today and hope that you guys are being safe out there. Love you guys, bye.