Delia Jo Ramsey

00:00Hey everyone, it's Brandon Styll, host of Nashville Restaurant Radio. You know that I am a big fan of having a plan and proactively using this time to make your business better. Times are tough, but reopening and recovery doesn't have to be. That's why I want to tell you about Kurtz Hospitality Marketing, their full-service sales, marketing, and public relations agency dedicated to growing revenue for their clients. You know you need a strong marketing strategy as you reopen your business. Let them help you put one together. Give them a call, 615-456-3953, or visit them on the web, www.KurtzHospitality.com. That's K-U-R-T-Z-Hospitality.com. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, a podcast for and about the people of the Nashville Restaurant scene. Now here's your host, the CEO of New Light Hospitality Solutions, Brandon Styll.

01:08Hello Music City, and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host, and it is Friday. I only say that because you had no idea what day it was, so I thought I would remind you it is Friday. Happy Friday to each and every person out there. My guest today is going to be the one and only Delia Jo Ramsey. She is the editor at Eater Nashville, and I thought it'd be fun to learn about her. She writes a bunch of articles about all of you and all the people in restaurants. Let's get in depth with Miss Delia Jo. So without further ado, Delia Jo, how you doing Delia? Hey, Brandon, I'm doing alright. How are you? I am fantastic. I'm so happy to have you here. I have been wanting to have you on the show since I started the show. I've been interviewing chefs, and while I love interviewing chefs, I read your articles and I read the heat maps and the Essential 38, and I just love that, but I've always wondered about people that write about food for a living, like chefs are kind of my primary demographic.

02:27I love to interview you to learn all about you, so thank you so much again for coming on the show. Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. So when I first kind of got this idea, I found you on Facebook, a friend requested you, and you had just put a post out there that said you're moving out of your home, out of a home that you'd had for a really long time, I guess, and it was you were moving the last piece of your move that was a box of like, I think it was your mother's stuff that she had to go bag that she had there. It sounds like you've had a pretty emotional past year. Everything was good. And then going into a quarantine, like, how are you doing? I mean, I kind of joked even before this happened that my life kind of has played out like a country song, a sad country song since I moved back to Nashville. I came back in late 2017 with who is now my ex-husband because I wanted to be closer to my mom. I was her only child, and I had been gone to Texas for nine years, and I just kept feeling like I want to move back closer.

03:34They live about an hour and a half south of here in Fayetteville, Tennessee, and I just kept having this feeling I wanted to be back closer, and I didn't want to regret not coming back. I finally found a good time with his career to make the move, and then within a month, my mom started having hip pain, which we eventually learned was stage four lung cancer. She was diagnosed in March of 2018, and then she passed last February. In the middle of her decline, my ex actually left when I was in a marriage counseling appointment for us, and I now know that decision was best for me, but it still made it very hard losing my ex of nine years and my mother within 81 days. The post that you saw was kind of our final piece that kept me tied to my ex because we didn't have children, but finally selling that house after nine months, or I guess it was 11 months actually, it kind of stirred up a lot of emotions because I went through and got rid of most everything.

04:45I started fresh with my little apartment, and just getting rid of everything in that house was an emotional journey, but it was also something that kept me really busy during the first two weeks of quarantine. It was a project. I just went over there and poured through memories and donated, even though donating was hard because Goodwills weren't accepting donations and people weren't picking up furniture donations at that time. So it was a really interesting time to sell a house and to process all the things I did. It's just been a continued level of grief that I was finding such relief and getting to go out and go to restaurants every night, and now that's been taken away too. So I kind of have this. It's all really been stripped away, and I've really just got a lot of time to figure things out and process and figure out the point of all of this, you know? So as a writer, as somebody who's writing articles about things all the time, do you feel like your writing changed when you were going through all those emotional? Did you notice a difference in what you were writing?

05:46I think everything just changed for me the day that I lost my mom. Everything seems so insignificant, really. I was like, who the hell cares about what the best burger in town is? It kind of changed the way I looked at things in a lot of ways. I was like, this is so dumb. But also, I was so thankful to have this site to pour myself into and this food that I love in this industry that I love covering and being involved in every day in some way. It changed a lot. I think all my Instagram posts went from like stupid, here's some queso to here's my grief journey today. And oh, that's what I had for dinner. It definitely changed a lot of what I share and a lot of who I am, I guess, you know, losing someone close to you does change, like your life becomes before and after that day. And I don't know, I've heard a lot of good feedback from people that are going through similar things. So I guess that's some good silver lining is that people know they're not alone in their grief.

06:47Well, I saw that and I thought, gosh, I want to hear her story. I just feel like it's so there's so much like there's so much out there right now in this crazy time that we're living in and people that have grief. And, you know, I had one of my best friends, my formative years, you know, a guy that I was attached to the hip, his name was Adam Lamberth, and he passed away a couple weeks ago. And, you know, we couldn't have any kind of a funeral. We couldn't do any sort of grieving. It's just kind of a hey, we're all going to get together when we're allowed to. And it's been a real challenge for me. And I think that a lot of people are in that boat. I see a lot of stuff shared on Facebook that people aren't able to go through the grieving process. So I'm sure that your stories and things that you've been able to share have been able to help a lot of people, I think, through understanding and perspective. Well, I'm very sorry for your loss. And I know there aren't words. And especially during these times, I can't imagine, you know, not being able to be at a funeral and hug people and have people hold my hand through the funeral.

07:53And I can't imagine not have been there when we lost her at the hospital on her bed. I can't imagine. I just have so much empathy for people who are stuck in these hospitals alone and for people who don't get to do this grieving process, because I think that just causes further trauma and further grief because you miss so much that I think is important for closure and processing 100 percent. It's definitely a challenging time. Well, thank you for sharing that with me. I don't want that to be the main reason I want to interview you, but I know that you're probably going through a lot. And I think it's sometimes I wanted to hear kind of a little about your story. So the reason the main reason I feel like I finally was able to get you on the show was you made a post on Facebook or is one of the socials. And you said, Where are all the Instagram influencers asking for free food? Where are their posts now? And I thought it was really funny. And then Nick Guidry commented on it.

08:56And then you commented on it. And you said, I have a blog that I have been working on for five years that I just may have to pull out. And I then replied and I said, You should come on Nashville Restaurant Radio and talk about it. And there was like 10 people that like that. And then you said, Hey, let's do it. So bam, here you are. Oh, here we are. I'm going to put you on the spot. All right. What's this blog about? What do you got? What's what is on Delia's brain? Well, you know, I still have not gone back and looked at the draft because honestly, I'm locked out of my old blog and don't know what the password is. But I recall I used to be very vocal when I lived in Texas about just if you've noticed the sheer number of people who post about restaurants and food on Instagram that just signed up for the free food. And I was I used to call them out and be very vocal about their sponsored post by McDonald's and how you couldn't press the recommendations because they're all paid.

09:57And I used to be quite vocal about it. And I've kind of hushed since I've been with Eater because it's that was sort of my own personal hill to die on. But then I just I just I noticed one day I was like Instagram is bothering me far less because I'm not seeing these stupid B.S. posts of people being like, look, this pizza is really great from this place. And then you see hashtag ad and I'm like, I don't trust this person. And so here I am spending money on restaurants and like really telling you what I like and what I, you know, I never say what I don't like. I just tell you what I like. And I would get so mad because I'd go to an event that, you know, had free snacks at a preview and these people would be getting paid to make an appearance just to show up. And I'm like, I'm taking pictures. I am posting. I'm writing an entire story for, you know, one taco and paid to make an appearance. And I just it's something that has always bothered me. And they've been quiet lately. And I was really happy that Instagram had kind of quieted. But I don't know if I've since learned that they've they've they've been reaching out to restaurant owners now being like for twenty dollars, I'll take a free to go order and shout out your restaurant to help you.

11:07And I'm just like, that is so poorly timed and so tone deaf, you know? No, it really is. I think that that's a I don't I don't know many of them. But from my days in the restaurants, it would be, hey, if you want me to talk about your restaurant in a positive light, I have thirty two thousand Instagram followers. And if I say you should go try the burger today, you'll get X amount of people coming in the restaurant. And that's the real side of, well, I need people to come in the restaurant. And if you would say that, then I'll give you a hundred dollar gift card and two hundred dollars. I mean, sure. Sure. Why not? If it's going to if I'm going to get the results from it. But the fact that there's somebody out there who can walk into a restaurant, ask for a hundred dollar gift card and or two hundred dollar gift card, and then they say something on Instagram and that many people come eat there, isn't that like something's broken, right? And are they seeing actual results from that? I'm curious to know from their perspective.

12:12I think you you do. I think that the one thing that you're seeing now is Instagram. What they'll tell you is I'll get you Instagram likes and I'll get you Facebook likes. And where the proof is in the pudding was, hey, I've got so many followers. And every time I did a special, I could post it to my Facebook page because I had twelve thousand followers and I would get return on investment. And what they would say is, you know, I'll put a promotion out there that if you like restaurant X, Y or Z, then you know, and then you will get four hundred likes if you spend this much for me. And it's all I don't get it. I honestly don't understand it. That's why I partner with Kurt's Hospitality Marketing to throw an ad in myself, because that's what they know and they know how to do it. And I think that leave it to the professionals. Sure. I mean, I agree. And I have friends who who do this. And that's why I think I pushed pause on it, because I know people well that I got to know through the industry or through media events and blogger events and influencer events and all this back in the day.

13:19But I don't agree with what they're doing. They show up to events and ask for extra free food, ask for to go free food to take home. I mean, I just especially now I'm like these restaurants have been hit by a tornado. They haven't made any money in six weeks in some cases, and these guys are still deeming them trying to take in. It frustrates me because then people who are actually looking to go out and spend money on a nice meal can't trust these people. So then they go spend one hundred dollars on dinner based on a sponsored post that isn't actually someone's real opinion. So let's start something. I think that guests out there, one of the reasons I want to do this podcast was for the people who dine in restaurants to listen and to get some tips from chefs and people as to what they should and shouldn't do when they come out to eat and leaving positive reviews. One of the the overlying theme that I get from talking to these amazingly brilliant chefs, the Nick and Audrey Gidries, the Matt Bolases of the world, John Stevenson, those guys are just amazing.

14:22They create food and they create everything that they do is to create an experience for you, for you to clock out, come in their building, try something that's just going to make your mind disappear. This is just the most amazing thing I've ever had. Whatever problems I had walking out here, I can walk in this building and just transform into this. This is just amazing experience. And that's what they do it for. People, when you have those experiences, organically go and share that somewhere. Let people know that you're having those experiences. If one little thing isn't right, that doesn't mean you go to Yelp and just skewer them. I think there's a for somebody who writes reviews and I asked Jim Myers this when he was on the show. I said, what is that? Let's help people learn how to write appropriate reviews. He said that it's my job to be an advocate for the consumer. I think if you go somewhere and you just say something for a dollar or say something for free food, you're not being an advocate for the consumer.

15:28You're being an advocate for yourself. That's where the rub is. That's what I think angers you or I is that they're not doing that so that other like buyer beware other people. They're doing it because they're out of vitriol, that they're angry, that they're, and Matt Bullis is Casey the other day, that this guy, you didn't get him cucumbers. That story was just- From the store down the street, right? Yeah. Turnip truck. Sir, we don't have cucumbers in none of our other neighboring restaurants, too. Well, there's a turnip truck three blocks, like really? Okay. Well, I guess we'll go to the store. And you get a one star from that? There's nothing about that that is helping the consumer. That's just because you're a jerk. Right. We got to stop that somehow. I don't know how to do it, but we got to stop that. I used to call out the specific bloggers who would blast a restaurant because I would say, did you talk to a manager? Did you complain to anyone? And they would always say, well, no. And I'm like, well, maybe before you blast that, yeah, like you didn't get your cucumbers to your 15,000 followers, you should have talked to the manager about why that really upset you.

16:34And they just- They'll make it. Yeah. They'll make it right. Absolutely. If a manager says tough, that's not our policy and you're not important. Maybe that's a, maybe buyer beware because they're not going to care about you. Sure. That's something that could happen, but give them a chance to make it right. Exactly. Okay. So there we go. I feel like we've exercised some demons here. A little bit. I feel a little, breathe a little easier now. Any other footnotes on that? Any footnotes on this blog you want to talk about? I just, I kind of hope that this shakes out and people remember on the other side of this who was still supporting restaurants and posting restaurants and buying food and who was quiet. That's all really. And I, I want this still to shake out that everybody recognizes that restaurants are the first responders. Restaurants are the ones who are the first ones to donate gift cards or the first ones to give, give, give, give, give.

17:37And we're in a really tough time. And if you're asking for stuff right now for yourself, when there's people that need help, that's not cool. Exactly. All right. So let's talk about what you do. I want to talk about Delia Jo Ramsey, the editor at Eater Nashville, your daily routine, what it is that you do. So how has the coronavirus affected your job? Are you still, you can't go to restaurants. I mean, are you still doing like, how many hours a week do you work? Well, a lot of people don't know that my job is part time. So technically I'm on for less than 20 hours a week and people don't know that. Is that just right now or is that like? No, that's historically in the world. Matt Rogers before me, same thing, less than 20 hours a week. I think maybe he was full time for a little while, but yeah, as far as, as long as I've been in the job, it's been less than 20 hours a week.

18:40So that's, that's the schedule. Obviously right now I have a lot more time, so I might be updating some lists and like gathering notes and taking interviews outside of that just because I enjoy it and it's something to focus on. So you work like less than 20 hours a week. You're the editor and then the people that, because most of the stories I see are written by you. I mean, you do a lot of the content and there's maybe one freelance writer for every six stories that you do. Where do you find time to do all of this? I mean, there's a lot to cover, right? Nashville's been an exciting place and continues to be an exciting place with openings and closings and tons of fun things happening in neighborhoods. We have a freelance budget, but it's very limited and it's since been cut. Vox Media did a round of layoffs a couple weeks ago and part of the agreement with some of us was that the freelance budget was cut. So we have a limited amount we can spend on these writers, which I love having because I love having help and I love having these talented people give their insights and tell funny stories because I'm not funny.

19:46But I wish I were funny, but no, I love having them. I wish I could feature more of their work, it's just the current state of affairs. So how do you choose what to write about? Well, that's, I guess, one thing that has changed with coronavirus. We had an editorial calendar that kind of guided you as far as what maps you needed to update. Best burgers, essential restaurants, which essential is kind of a different word now, the heat map and all of that and then just normally would wake up and kind of look for openings or closings or other interesting features that we could cover. And now that I've typed coronavirus more times than I would care to count and didn't even know what the word meant three months ago, everything kind of revolves around what's going on in the city, in the state as far as what can restaurants do? Can dining rooms be open? Can to go alcohol be sold? Now it's all kind of around curating maps for diners at home to find where can I get pizza right now?

20:46Where can I go in my neighborhood? Where can I get groceries with my food delivered? So now it's kind of shifted into creating content that people at home will find useful when getting takeout and delivery. Sure. I mean, everything's changed. Yeah, truly. It's not just talk about the bar at Pelican and Pig now. Now it's where can I get food and who's being safe and who's I've seen a lot of great articles about who's helping health care workers, who are the restaurants doing the right thing. I love that you're promoting the people that are doing that. Right. I mean, there are so many cool things happening. There are a ton of cool things happening. So what's the most interesting thing that you've seen so far? I mean, at first, I think the shift to selling groceries and cafe rows, becoming a bodega, which I've thought is a really cool thing that Nashville has needed, and then the to go alcohol shift has been neat to see the meal kits that people have come out with, the take and bake pizzas and the, you know, prepared steaks and things like that.

21:51But I think the coolest thing I've seen is what Urban Grub is doing with their safer at home travel series. And last week I went and picked up their Jazz Fest New Orleans feast and it was incredible. It was just this feast of New Orleans foods and made me feel like I was on one of my food trips where I eat three dinners and can't breathe. It was the most amazing display of beignets and pralines and sausage and gumbo. And it was beautiful. So tonight I'm picking up my Montreal inspired feast from there, because I think I'm going to be on the weekly for this one. It makes a fun date night. You can set up a little tablescape, actually put on real clothes and make up and pretend you're not in the house. And you could do the replay challenge. Oh, I saw that. I am so bad at that because I just want to take a picture of it and eat it. But maybe, maybe I'll try your replay challenge tonight. You got to do it. I'm telling you, my brother said, he goes, I think that people just don't want to get dishes dirty. The point of doing to go and I said, I get that.

22:51I totally understand that. But if I was a chef and I put all this stuff together and somebody went home and did just like what you said, you got dressed up, you put makeup on, you made this beautiful dinner. Like if I was a chef, I'd want to see what you did with my creation. That's the whole point. Fair. That's true. They tag him in and they go, oh, look, we had this really cool idea to do Montreal. And then we put all that we source all these products, we put everything together. And then we just put it into go boxes and it goes out into the ether. And by you replating it, putting all that stuff back together and tagging them when you send it back to them, they get to go, look what they did with our stuff. What does that do for the chef's soul? That's what I, that's the only reason I wanted to do it. So no, I love that. I love that. I just, I've, I've never used my dishwasher so much as I have in the last six weeks, so I guess it is a big motivator and why I don't do it. Also, I'm not great at plating, so maybe I'll have to play the game during this quarantine. Boom.

23:52There you go. So one of the big questions I've always had for you, if I've got, I've got you here, the Essential 38 and the Eater heat map. How do you, is it, is it you that comes up with the content for those? And what are the criteria? How does that work? So for the heat map, the criteria are that a restaurant be open less than six months. And usually I just kind of check to see what the buzz is around town. Like I'll see what's getting a lot of good reviews or I'll hear what people are talking about when I'm dining at the bar, which obviously is not happening now, but these maps aren't being updated now either. So I kind of just collect from people who work in the industry, other people who cover the industry and just people I know that dine out a lot and see what they're excited about and try to make that into the heat map. And then as far as the Eater 38, when I signed on, it was still 18 and all the other cities had 38 and I had all these sad feelings about how I thought Nashville had more than 18 essential restaurants.

24:56And I kind of just collected suggestions from other writers, suggestions from people again that I know that dine out a lot and collaborated that into 38 and then we have to refresh them, of course. And we like to represent a wide range of price ranges and neighborhoods. And I guess, yes, I have the final say, but I do collect information from a lot of people to kind of have a representation of what makes the city tick. No, that's cool. Obviously, there are far more than 38. Yeah, of course. I mean, that's just, I just feel like that, what do you do with all that power? Hopefully help readers find places they like to eat, right? You have like lightning bolts that come out of your fingers. I think people expect me to be very different than I am. Well, I did. I didn't know what to expect of you. Who is this person back here? This is this great and powerful Oz behind the curtain who decides you're on the 38, you're off, you're here, you're gone.

25:59Like what, how does this work? Because there's so many restaurants. You know what I would like to see is a top 20, maybe the, the, what do you call it? The legacy 20, the 20 restaurants that are the restaurants that shaped the Nashville restaurant scene. People have been doing it here in town forever. The Midtown Cafes, the, the Marable, Green Hills Grill, Merchants, these restaurants that have been around forever. What are, what are the best legacy restaurants in town? I'd love to promote them as best we can. I mean, we have something like that. We do have a list of, I think it's classic restaurants and it's restaurants that have been open at least 25 years to qualify. Um, I think we could do a better job of updating it and featuring more. We do try to infuse some of those that are still really currently popular into the 38. For instance, of course, Arnold's and I think Midtown Cafes is still on there because it's just one of those places that time and time again is, it's classic Nashville and helped make Nashville what it is.

27:10Absolutely. There, there is a bunch of them and they're all over the city and I just, I don't know, I love to see those guys. I mean, they're the guys I've worked with a bit in the business here in Nashville for 25 years and there's some people that have just been in this thing. A lot of the Nashville originals, you know, those guys that just get in there and they've got a great thing going and then new restaurants show up and they get all the love and it's like, I've been doing this so long. So if I catch it here, I wanted, I wanted to say something on their behalf. Of course, I guess the hard part is there's so much of my job, you know, it's just, it's openings and closings and so sadly for some of those, you don't hear about them for a while until they close, which I don't like. So maybe something that's cool about the time we have now is shining a light on the way some of these restaurants are shape shifting in the, in the current days and maybe kind of bringing them back to people's minds because people do forget because diners are kind of fickle and they, they do want to go see the shiny new place and the bachelorettes want to go see the shiny new place with the pretty Instagram pictures.

28:11So I think it is important, like you said, to remember how Nashville got to be the culinary destination that it is. And I mean, I think also that's a really good point you just made that if you constantly just do the things you've always done, sometimes the people do want the shiny that if you are a legacy restaurant, there are things you can do to attract those people knowing what they want. And I think that's always a way to get better at what you're doing. Just staying the way you were sometimes doesn't work. Exactly. Which is maybe the point for so many people with this current climate is having the time to sit and think and analyze and figure out how all of us can come out of this better in some way. You must have been listening to my podcast. I have them. That is, that is my, I've been like shouting that from the rooftops, like you're not getting better right now. You're losing. Yeah. And it's not about accomplishing things. It's just about taking the time and making something good.

29:14Yeah. I mean, I'm like, put theoreticals together for all of your food costs, redo your menus, get rid of that dish that didn't really work that well. But that one person said they liked it, like reopen, do a grand reopening of this whole thing and get rid of some of that stuff and be like, ah, sorry, Janet, that that dish is gone. You've had to move forward. Like, this is your time. This is your time to move away from that dish that needs to go away. They call them dogs. Get rid of the dogs. Absolutely. So what do we have coming up? What do we get? What is the next thing that we should all be watching eater nashville.com to see? What should we be excited about? What should we be excited about? I mean, I'm excited to see how how restaurants reopen, I guess, but I'm so cautious about it. I'm excited, of course, because I want these businesses to be back and I want people to be able to dine out again because I think it's such an important part.

30:17So I'm excited to see kind of how this all plays out on the other side safely, of course, and in the right time. In the meantime, just I love watching the creativity and featuring the creativity that's come out of this. And so many people are thinking outside of the box and providing cool new stuff that the city's never seen before. So I just continuing to see what to see what happens. I agree with you completely. You know what I'm not excited about as far as what people what's coming out is I talked to Claire Crowell yesterday and people that go out and dine when these restaurants reopen, I feel like there's going to be just the optics of everything and everybody's hyper focused lens on what everybody's doing and then turning around to the Internet and just with like a blow horn, letting everybody know that my server touched their face when they were walking to like everybody out there. Every restaurant is really trying to adapt and figure this thing out.

31:22And as people reopen, get give them like a week or two to figure it out. All these people that are sitting at home right now quarantine are are getting a little bit of rust and getting into the building and learning all the new procedures and just the habit like when you're at your house, like how many times you touch your face in an hour is ridiculous for sure like focusing on not doing that because somebody's watching like people are human and I just am waiting for the first restaurants to open and everybody just to go nuts online that this happened and this sounds like give them a break. That's a little bit of grace here as these people who've been serving you to go food driving to work every day during the middle of a pandemic like get give them a break. So that's what I'm not looking forward to seeing that, but I also am looking forward to hopefully being a voice to say calm down, calm down, Karen, right, Karen. Exactly. I want to say thank you again for coming on the show.

32:25Yeah, thank you. It was really exciting. Is there anything that you want to tell the people out there in Nashville, the chef friends, anything you got out there? Just words of encouragement. I mean, we're all just taking this one day at a time. There are no experts in this. There's no right or wrong in in this whole process because everyone's just figuring it out one day at a time. Just keep taking it day by day, deep breaths, be kind to yourself because this is a trauma that I think everyone's going through in different ways, some with job loss, some with potentially losing their businesses, some people going through other losses while here. So just I think continuing to take care of yourselves and continue to create and just looking forward to seeing what's on the other side from everybody. I want to thank you for coming on the show today and I know you've got a lot of stuff to do today and I wish you nothing but the best of luck. Thanks so much. Same for you, Brendan.

33:25Thanks for having me. Super grateful to have Delia Joe Ramsey on the show today. Thank you so much, Delia, for coming on. Also thank you to you, the listener, for hanging in there and listening to this entire show. If you like it, please subscribe. I would love to have you be a subscriber to my podcast and like it, share it. Please let me know what I'm doing. Leave some comments on our Facebook page, find me on Instagram. Love to have you follow us. We're hoping to put out as many cool things as we possibly can and just thank you for all that you're doing. Hopefully you're being safe out there and taking care of yourselves. Love you guys. Bye.