Hard To Heart with Mikey and Brian from the Mockingbird

00:00We absolutely love partnering with Sharpies Bakery. Erin Mosso has been selling bread, fresh baked bread, to locally-owned and operated restaurants six days a week for 36 years. Yes, her father started the company 36 years ago and Erin took it over five years ago and it is doing amazing things. I have so many guests that come in the studio that are like, I love Sharpies, they save me so much time and the bread is so good. So we've got round buns, specialty round buns, dinner rolls, hoagies, baguettes, they do cheesecake, they do flourless chocolate, tortes, they do specialty loaf breads and regular loaf breads and bullies, sourdough, long tuscan, wheat, multigrain, they got everything. You should go check them out at sharpies.com. That is Sharpies, C-H-A-R-P-I-E-R-S.com or you should give them a call at 615-356-0872. Supporting local is so damn important and Erin Mosso and all of our friends over at Sharpies Bakery, do that daily.

01:08Give her a call right now. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now, here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. We are powered by Gordon Food Service. My name is Brandon Styll and I am again, not your host today. Today, I am relinquishing the host duties to our good friends, Mikey Corona and Brian Riggenbach from The Mockingbird for the Boys of the Bird podcast, Hard to Heart. This is such an amazing conversation that they have with Lincoln from Condado Taco and Bunny. They are a couple, Bunny works at The Mockingbird, just amazing, amazing guys. I've met them before and just such great energy and they're just amazing ambassadors for this industry.

02:13And I love Mikey and Brian bringing them on the show today. This is such a fun episode because, I don't know, I think that Brian and Mikey are natural hosts and I've got so much positive feedback from their last episode. Hopefully, you've already gone out and tested out Mystic Picnic in Springfield. If you haven't, go back last week and last Friday and listen to the episode. It is really, really good. And I'm really proud of this episode too that they put together and hope that you guys had a wonderful Valentine's Day. Hope you all made a ton of money out there and we are gonna be back next week with all kinds of fun stuff and we'll start off the week with Brandon's book club. We talked about Unreasonable Hospitality. They talk about the book, Unreasonable Hospitality in this interview and the book club book of the month this month was Unreasonable Hospitality. We did a live show yesterday and it's gonna be out Monday. You'll get to hear us talk about this book from Will Cadara. It is such an amazing book, changed my life. Put a lot of things that are in my brain into words inside of a book and just loved it, highly recommend you read it.

03:19Hopefully, you're able to join us on that show if you weren't. Go follow us on YouTube because we do live shows all the time and we just put them out there on YouTube and you can join the podcast. So if you go subscribe to us on YouTube, it's Nashville Restaurant Radio. You'll get notifications when we go live and you can join the show almost all the time. So it's a lot of fun and this pop-up series has been an absolute joy to listen to and to hear them do these interviews. I cannot wait till next Friday with our final installment of Hard to Heart. And without further ado, let's jump in right now with Mikey and Brian, Hard to Heart. ["Hard to Heart"] Okay, everyone, welcome back. This is Mikey with the Mockingbird and. Brian Wiggenbach from the Mockingbird as well. So we're the boys of the bird and guess what? We have taken over the podcast yet again. Brandon and Caroline are taking a much needed break.

04:19I think they're somewhere in Hawaii right now, drinking some very refreshing beverages by the beachside and soaking up some sun, or at least that's what I would like to think that they're doing in their downtime. But we're gonna continue hanging out with some of our friends in the biz and talking shop a bit, specifically with couples that are in the restaurant and hospitality business together here in Nashville. Today, we are super fortunate to have some great peeps that moved here not too long ago to the Nashville area. We have Lincoln and his partner, Bunny. Bunny is such a fantastic ray of light that we have the pleasure with working alongside at the Mockingbird. So I'm gonna let them chit chat and let them introduce themselves to y'all and say a bit about who they are. So take it away, y'all. Well, I guess I'll go first.

05:20My name is Bunny. Yes, hello. Thank you so much for having us, we're so excited. So I am an alcoholic bachelor of the arts from Ohio, Miami University. I studied theater and business arts management, but I started pre-med. So when I told my Nana I was switching, she said, what are you gonna do with the rest of your life? Just be a waiter. And I said, no, girl, I'm gonna be a waitress. So, and here I am doing exactly what she predicted. So. Love that. I was, I've been in recovery from alcoholism, bipolar for six years, six months and six days, six, six, six. Wow. No, I'm just kidding. Okay. Not the six days, it's like nine days actually. So yeah, and the reason I'm here in Nashville is because my partner, Lincoln, brought me here. Yes. And it's a renaissance, I feel reborn in Nashville.

06:22So it was a really, really great move taken kind of on a whim and I'll let Lincoln explain more about that, I guess. Hi, Lincoln. Hello, gentlemen. Thanks for having us again. For sure. My name's Lincoln Workman. I am the assistant regional manager with Condado Tacos here in Nashville. So I oversee all of our locations here in Tennessee and Kentucky and we'll be opening in Alabama this year as well. Dang, congrats. Thank you very much. Yeah, so moved to Nashville about a year and a half ago from Columbus, Ohio. I am a native of Columbus, Ohio. That's where Condado Taco started. So I had actually agreed upon to take the general manager position of our capital view location that opened up in August of 2021 here. So didn't know much of anything about Nashville prior to moving here. I think we visited, what, twice, Ryan, before coming in and have been enjoying it so much so far. I am a product of the restaurant industry. My parents actually owned a Baskin & Robbins for 21 years.

07:22No way. Yes, so I grew up at an ice cream store which is where I grew up. That sounds horrible. You are so lucky. I had over 31 flavors at my disposal every day of the week. Isn't that a PJ Harvey song? So yeah, it was really great. My mom also was a gourmet foods instructor. There was a cooking school in Columbus started by Betty Rossbottom, who's a very prolific cookbook author called La Belle Palm. And my mom was an instructor there with Betty and everything. And so she used to take me to the cooking school instead of putting me in childcare and putting me in the back of the room with a crayon and coloring book and everything. And I really stunk at coloring. So I'd watch her up on the stage cook with Jacques Pepin and Julia Child and stuff like that. She cooked with them? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, yeah. Oh, they're so amazing. What? Yeah, I have cookbooks signed by Jacques and everything. Funny, how come you never told us about Lincoln? What? So I kind of got a cooking bug from a young age. Started cooking in the restaurant industry. Gosh, going into my freshman year of high school, I worked at a bakery, kind of just doing the dishes and everything.

08:23And then the main baker quit all of a sudden. So they kind of put me in charge at 14, 15 years old. Which is like, that's a lot how things work in the restaurant world. Exactly, so. And then just started cooking in different restaurants throughout central Ohio. Ended up going to culinary school. And then after that, I moved out to Cape Cod, Massachusetts to Provincetown. Okay. And spent eight years kind of cheffing it up out there and everything. With mom and pop places or with a corporate place? Oh, it's all mom and pop. No, I remember when a subway moved in out there and it was a huge uproar. That was kind of the first national brand to move in. Wowsers. Yeah, so definitely got to work with some amazing chefs out there and kind of honed my skill and everything. Moved back to central Ohio and then kind of just slowly evolved into the run of the house, kind of waiting tables and everything. Kind of got a little burn out on the hours and the strenuousness of being in the kitchen every day. So, and then kind of just started doing private events. Kind of was a manager for private events and catering for an old school restaurant in Columbus called Lindy's.

09:24Okay. Been around for, oh my gosh, almost 40 years now. So. Is it still there? It is still there. I love that. Yeah, it's a female owned restaurant. It's kind of funny, I was thinking about my history. I've worked for a lot of great women restaurateurs and entrepreneurs and everything that really kind of helped hone my skill. And then kind of, yeah, then got a job with Condado Tacos five years ago now. Was this your first intro into corporate because initially you said that they're from there. So they didn't start out corporate, correct? No, when I joined Condado, we only had four locations. Wowzers. We're at 40 now. God dang it. And how long time did they expand like that? We've been around for eight years. So it's been super fast growth, yeah. And you've been with them since pretty much the beginning. Yeah, yeah, I'm definitely one of the OGs at Condado. That's. There's about a dozen of us that are still left from kind of the old days of the restaurant and everything. So. That's fantastic. And you're doing something right. And your opinion matters there. They're listening to you. So now you and Bunny did work together at Condado, correct?

10:29We both worked for Condado, but at separate locations. We don't kind of know if we don't do any hey, partners, manager, hourly kind of thing at like that at all. Which is so crazy to hear like, because Brian and I being co-owners of Mockingbird, but then married together like in the corporate world, it's a big no-no. Yeah, definitely is. You came into it though that way, you know? So I guess. It is, I see the pros and cons to both sides of it for sure. And it's kind of amazing in that sense that you all worked for the same company and we're in the same environment. So it's the same menu, but Bunny, were you ever in management or were you in the server front of the house role solely? So yeah, I have been in management as well. I was actually a manager at a chicken place that was inspired by Hattie B's down here. Hot chicken. Hot chicken takeover was what it was called. He brought it from here, mostly as like a venue to like help people, which I guess we'll talk about that more later down the line, but in the middle of that, or not in the middle of it, towards the end of that, things were kind of going south and then the pandemic hit.

11:40And so I did end up, I took some time off and then he ended up hiring me as a delivery driver for Condado, which I never, we never worked together. Like it was, we were always on like separate shifts except for Cinco de Mayo, which was like one of the worst days of both of our lives. Yeah. Hands on deck to Cinco de Mayo to Mexican, like inspired. It was the most insane. So then after that, I went back to hot chicken and then I ended up going back and working at Condado as a server at a different one, the one he started at actually. So we, and at that point, we never ever worked together across paths at all. Well, I think that's fantastic in so many different ways and the fact that like, you know, whenever you do get home after like a crazy shift, y'all are able to have these conversations and you can relate to them. I know there's pros and cons to that, but I think, did you all, at least did you all find that to be a positive experience with you being in management and like upper management and hearing kind of what your servers, because I'm sure Bunny can kind of give you the voice on like what people are feeling.

12:44That's, I feel like golden because then you are able to hear directly with no buffers what is being said on the ground floor, positive or negative to know how to grow your team in like the best way possible. Yeah, you know, Bunny would come home with some, you know, great advice, that's for sure. It's always definitely a challenge because I see things from a manager perspective. So I feel I coach more on Bunny being a great server from a manager's eye. Yeah. You know, because since we are, you know, mid-level regional size restaurant now, not much can change overnight and everything like that. So now we did work together in a kitchen prior in our early days of our relationship. We did, we did, I was about to bring that up. Yes, so there was a mom and pop restaurant in central Ohio called Dempsey's. Okay. Irish owned kind of, I mean, it wasn't an Irish pub, but they wanted to be a little bit, a little bit.

13:45And we actually lived above the restaurant. So that is like close on every level. Oh yeah, I wormed my way in there. It was in the height of some tough times and I just would help, I would be spending all my time there and then I weaseled my way back to the dish tank and then, you know, the owner was like, just do you want a job? Like I'll hire you. And so yeah, and it was, it was rough. It was rough. How did y'all, it's, it is tough and I'm glad in like. He was my boss. Oh, my direct reporting boss. I reported directly to him every day. That's another layer of complication for the relationship. Yes, oh yeah. What could go wrong? Oh geez. Right, that's in my mind. In my mind, I was like, oh, that'll be great. It'll be fine. Until it's not. Until it's not. Until it's not. And still people would be like, oh, he gives you special treatment and treats you. I feel like now. He treats me worse. And I'm like, I don't know how y'all don't see that.

14:46And also they didn't see that I would be there until two or three in the morning, cleaning up like his messes from his creations. Cause he was the head chef there. So he was creating new dishes and experimenting and he would just. Now in this time, is this whenever y'all were in your sober years yet? Or was this still. The complete opposite. This was the height of addiction. The height of you so much. A lot of speed. A lot of, a lot of me just like, I need to get out of the house and not be around you. So I'm going to go to the kitchen and do my own things as well. A lot of coping that necessarily wasn't productive. No, no, no, no. Wowzers. Yes, you add that addiction layer as well. And that deepens it for sure. Oh yeah. Lots of fighting. Like, and probably over nonsense, you know, because it was the addiction speaking probably. Oh yeah. I applaud y'all for being able to be in this industry, which is known for the high stress levels and being able to on the daily tackle those addictions.

15:49So I know it's a day by day and sometimes probably minute by minute and hour by hour process. So kudos and hats off to y'all. I definitely was going to kind of bring that up as a point because when Brian and I first started a business together in 2009 in Chicago through peers, we were told that it would probably be best if we speak to a counselor to be able to have a sounding board as far as the grievances that come out with working together in the most healthiest way possible. Thankfully in Chicago, they have the Howard Brown Center, which is LGBTQ centered and it's in Boys Town, which is where we lived. And they offer free counseling, healthcare, and it's just an amazing space. And so we went and they offered counseling on sliding scales and you can do it like as a couple or you can do it individually and it's with various different peers that are professionals in that arena.

16:52And so we did that and we feel like it really did help us talk through a lot of the issues because we did find ourselves going into unhealthy coping mechanisms, which would be drinking too much and then that really doesn't solve the problem. If anything, it kind of just adds fuel to the fire. And so that being said, what are some of the tools that you all have found that help you in the industry when it comes to the amount of stress that is just part of this business? For me personally, 12 step meetings have definitely, definitely been a great help kind of meeting people in recovery and being able to kind of deal with the recovery issues that I have. Ben's friends here in Nashville has been an amazing outlet for me as well, which is a recovery group for the hospitality industry. We meet every Monday at 11 a.m. at the Oak Steakhouse and it's been a great, great organization to kind of, because not only do they get you because you're a drug addict or alcoholic, but they also get you because you're in a restaurant five days a week as well.

18:04At least. Yeah, exactly, at least, at least. So those for me since moving to Nashville have been two of my major outlets to kind of help cope with. Also, since moving to Nashville, I've taken up strength training and so that gym time for me now is kind of that quiet, meditative time for me to kind of just decompress and let everything go and kind of almost escapism for me, so. Sure. Yeah, I know that since we first met you and coming into the restaurant that you've gotten into it and Bunny shares some of that with us as well and I'm like, that is freaking inspirational because you have a lot of responsibilities with being over so many stores and we've only got one place that we're in charge of so I'm like, God dang it, if Lincoln can find the time and the results, because it had been maybe a couple of months since I'd seen you and then I saw you about six months ago come in and I was like, wow, dang, Lincoln.

19:04Okay, yeah. And maybe you don't notice it every day because you see yourself in the mirror every day, but I hadn't seen you in a couple of months when I saw you come in. Oh, he sees himself, yeah. I catch him, I'm like, I'm gonna let him just have his moment in the mirror, I love it, yeah, I'll let him do that, yeah. Those tacos were good on you. Yeah, so that doesn't look like the kind of physique of somebody who's around tacos and that came from a Baskin Robbins background. Oh, trust me, it didn't start that way, baby. That was what I was gonna say, a part of our love story was, I mean, I was kind of rude and mean to him. I was like, no, it's not gonna happen and he was persistent and so, and here we are, but I saw the potential. I knew there was potential. How long have y'all been together? That'll be 10 years this June. That's amazing. That's incredible. I'd love that, and especially with all the layers and some of the struggles put in front of y'all, that warms my heart, so this is perfect to have y'all here for Valentine's month.

20:08I'm so happy you guys had us. For sure, and listen, it's not all rainbows and cherries, I get that, and so I think in some of these other topics we'll bring up, we'll get to shed some light on the realities of it and how it ties into what we do as a career right now. Oh, absolutely, and I was gonna say the tools that we did use that you brought up were alcohol and drugs and that worked to varying effects for a time. At the time, it seemed like that was the solution to all of our problems, all of my problems. It was courage, it was confidence, it was social lubrication, it was all of those things that it brought to the table, and then it was being able to stay up for days on end. And feel productive. And be productive and get all of my stuff done, and so it seemed like solutions until it crumbles your life, and then it just masks the things that we weren't really talking about, like the things that we needed to talk about, so the most important tool that I think we have together is our recovery, and how we do it separately, and we can come together and do it together as well.

21:19It gives us a language and a vocabulary for us to be in and have productive conversation, and understanding and acceptance and love, and sometimes it's not perfect, of course, but we try, and it's, you know. Now, were there situations that would be influenced by guests that would spin you into a tailspin? Was it like a guest didn't tip, or a guest complained about you or something that would trigger that, or was it mainly kind of more personal situations that you feel like are the hardest? Because it's so hard to be able to not take things personal when you deal with the public, and sometimes that can chip away at you. I know there's been plenty of nights where I'm like, oh my god, I had such a shitty day at work, you know, a guest is rude, I spilt sauce on somebody, and I just couldn't forgive myself, and so I thought the answer to that was drinking to oblivion, which is ridiculous in retrospect, because why am I punishing myself for that?

22:32That doesn't make any sense, but at the time, you're like, that's what I need to do. So would it be situations like that that would be like, oh fuck, I really need blah, blah, blah, or was it just, no, this is just what I do to go on for my shift? For me, it just kind of became just like the repetition and kind of almost just my pattern. When I was waiting tables back in the day, that's just what we did. We all went to the bar afterwards, and we got out at one o'clock, we had an hour and a half to catch up slash get to where we needed to be, you know, and everything. So it was just, that for me, it was just, it was the social aspect, you know? In the early days for me, it wasn't really, and for the majority of my drinking days, it was a social thing. I wasn't like, I never understood how servers, bartenders, anybody could work a double, go out in the middle of their shift, have a beer and a shot, lunch, and then come back and do it, because if I started, I had to keep going. So I just could never start Friar and everything like that.

23:34So, you know, I think now in sobriety, I know now that I'm not gonna be able to make everybody happy. As long as I make most of the people happy, I'm doing good at my job. We're gonna take a quick break to hear a word from our sponsors. What Chefs Want has been serving locally owned and operated restaurants for almost 20 years. They've been in town almost 20 years. Can you believe that? It's almost like, what would I do without What Chefs Want? Some people still know them as creation gardens. They're really amazing. So they changed their name to What Chefs Want because that's what they are. And so many people in the other industries, like, how do you guys do it? Let me tell you what they do. They truly want to be what chefs want. They do that by no minimums. What does chefs not wanna do? They wanna have to buy an entire case of something if they don't need it. They want daily delivery. They want Sunday deliveries and guess what? What chefs want? Check, done.

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25:41Love that, you know. You say that all the time and I think I have the hardest time with it. So like you're right though. Like once you come to that piece and that realization, then you don't beat yourself up about it in whatever ways that we do beat ourselves up about it in the industry. I try to go above and beyond for anybody that may be dissatisfied, but you know, sometimes it's just not everybody's jam. Like that's just how it's going to be. That's okay. Yeah, I've learned now, when it comes to hospitality and everything, I just want to make you feel happier than you walked in the door. I mean, I don't want to, I'm not trying to, we're not trying to change the world. We're just making a good taco now. That's all we're doing. We're not shaking the culinary world or anything like that. Our food is just really, really tasty at where I work. And we provide a really fun, welcoming, open environment for everybody. You know, we kind of have this- So if you're coming in looking for like a tasting menu or like the nuances- Yes, you have hit the wrong spot. Definitely.

26:43You want a good margarita and a good taco. We got you. Yeah. And that's the thing is like, sometimes expectations of guests can be just off the charts. And you're like, I've done everything I can. And you're right. Like we're just, we're not a good fit and that's okay. And I've done my best to make you happy and that's it. Wowzers, that's deep. That's really deep. That is deep. Yeah. Oh, geez. Okay. Awesome. Okay, so y'all met, and y'all were both in the restaurant world. Is there, any time that you felt like, okay, maybe if I get out of this industry, it would be like better for me or for better for us as a couple, or have y'all always just decided like, this is the industry we want to be in and this is what we're kind of married to? Yeah, when I was in prison. Okay.

27:44To be honest, yeah. I ended up getting sentenced to four years in prison because of my drug use and everything. So definitely had a lot of time to kind of reconsider what I wanted to do with my life when I was released and everything like that, but. That's life changing. Yeah, well yeah, definitely was. You know, and in the end, it was the right spot for me to be at the right time because it definitely did help shake me up and get me sober and everything like that. So it's, as unfortunate as it was, I wouldn't be where I am today without it. Do you feel like it saved your life like that? For the most part, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah, or put me in a situation where I almost lost my life. Maybe it's, you know, it's just the mental mind games that go in your own head when you're stuck behind, you know, two 20 foot tall barbed wire fences and just staring out, you know, at the world outside of you when, you know, because of the actions and choices I made, you know, that landed me there and everything. And it's just, you know, incredibly violent situation and stuff.

28:46And I ended up did cooking in prison too. So yes, I did. I got a job in the kitchen. I was baking 1,000, 1,500 cookies every day for the inmates and everything. So, which was a great spot because then you can kind of, you know, as prisoners do steal stuff and take the ingredients back to your bunk and everything. And then you can make things. I actually had a great hustle in prison of making, yeah, I made- You're like the Martha Stewart of your block? I really was, actually. It's a great, I mean, I would make, so you have a commissary where you can purchase, you know, items and stuff and everything. So I used to get marshmallows and dark chocolate and peanut butter and Lay's potato chips. And I would make Rice Krispie treats, but substitute the Lay's potato chips for the Rice Krispies. And then drizzle dark chocolate and peanut butter over these and walk around the Bay and sell them. Ramen noodles is the currency in prison and everything that you use. And I have a sleeve of tattoos I used to pay for it in prison. And I had, yeah, I had- It's a good tattoo too. And the treats are absolutely amazing.

29:48I still crave them today. Can you please make a fucking cookbook? I want to, I really want to. You need to. Yeah. And I have my own little things because I was in jail for three months. And so jail's a little different than prison, like the commissary system and yeah, and what people sneak in and you know, whatever. So it's, we definitely have, you're more limited. So you get more creative, like making like- Oh, you weren't able to make like breads or anything because that's how long it even takes to get the- No, we couldn't do like breads. No, no, no. What, you mean you didn't have a sourdough starter? No, no, absolutely. No, we absolutely definitely did have, I wouldn't call it a sourdough starter, but it was like a fermentation starter. There's a lot of fermentation that goes on on the box. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some, definitely some hooch. And then what were, what are they called? The ramen, the- Breaks. Breaks, God, how did I forget that? We're so far away from that. So break is usually kind of a ramen noodle based dish with diced up summer sausage, some cheese was, just anything processed and salty and disgusting. And you kind of layer them in a Tupperware container.

30:50And yeah. Oh, there's so many, so many. Breaks. They're called breaks. Breaks, yeah, yeah. Where do you think that name came from? I have no clue. Prison break, I don't know. Does it break your teeth? No, I mean, the ramen noodles? Yeah, so you have access to a microwave in prison? Okay, well that's true. Not in jail. Not in jail, jail is different. So, and I mean, there's a whole subculture of individuals in prison that, you know, are cooks and everything like that. I mean, I literally would cook for certain gang members in prison that provided them any safety from other individuals with inside the four walls of the prison. Wow. Yeah, so people knew not to mess with me because I was cooking for X, Y, and Z over there. Oh, how wonderful. Yes. Yeah, the culinary arts like saved, saved your life. It really did. Yeah, yeah. Now, do you feel like coming out of that because our industry is known to be an open door for anybody looking for second chances? Do you feel like you went directly back into the restaurant world afterwards because of that, or it's just because that's all that you had known?

31:55You know, I had some really special individuals in my life that prior to going to prison kind of tried to have an intervention with me. Okay. A couple of restaurateurs I had worked for and everything, and I just wasn't in the right mind space at that time to kind of accept the help that I needed at that point, so I had reached out to Yvonne Sarver, who was an amazing restaurateur. She actually has a slew of taco restaurants called Agave and Rye now that are opening up all over the place, and she took me back in with open arms. You know, I had, outside of my drug use and everything, I had a pretty good reputation in Central Ohio as being a very effective restaurant manager and everything at that time, so. So you're functional. Yes. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Deceiving, I think, a lot of times because there's, it's hard for people to, I guess, call you out on anything because they're like, oh, well, God, he's, Lincoln's kicking ass, like, what do you mean? That's not a problem, like, he's got it under control, so it's great that you did have somebody there that did notice it was a problem and pulled you aside, but you just, you felt like you weren't ready at that time to.

33:02No, I wasn't ready at that time, you know, so. Wow. So that's, I was, one of the questions I have is in hospitality, what values are important to you, and I think what you're kind of speaking to kind of says that. I don't know if you can put like a word to that. Empathy, empathy for me these days. You know, I've been through a lot. I've made it out on top. You know, as of today, you know, I'm still doing very, very well, so I can empathize with most situations that anybody on my team has been through. Speaking of the second chances and everything like that, you know, especially those that have been incarcerated that are looking for a job, you know. I don't really, I don't appear like I've been incarcerated, if that makes sense. So when people kind of find out their jaw drops a little bit and everything, and, you know, I work with them. You know, hey, let's make sure we're staying on track so you don't have to go back to prison and everything like that. That's...

34:02It has a layer of trust, don't you think, Kea? Absolutely, for sure. I think it's a wonderful layer of trust, but I think that it could also serve as inspiration to those individuals. Oh yeah. Look, I've been through, I've made mistakes, I've done things wrong, learn from me, and here's the path to success. And I think you have credentials to it because you've been through it, and I think that makes somebody in that situation stop and pay really attention to you and see you as an inspiration. So that's a lot to carry, but... It is, I don't mean... The title of role model is not easy. No. And it's something now I take pretty seriously. I know those are watching me with a magnifying glass these days. There's those out there that are probably rooting for me to fail, too, and that's okay. And that gives me more drive to not fail and to succeed and do better things and help more people. I take my management approach style a little differently these days than I ever did back in my pre-prison time and everything.

35:09Just because of all the experiences I've had, those life experiences really have changed me as a human being and... For sure. Yeah. I think if you lead with empathy, then that also makes a big difference. And that is something I need to remind myself. Definitely speak to his empathy because when we first met, he was... A narcissist. Yeah, so no, no. I mean, a little maybe, but no. He's completely transformed and changed and done the work. And it really shows in his style. Like I said, I've worked with the maniac before, so I know what it can look like. And I think he's really taken his experiences and brought all of that with him and changed and grown and transformed and take what's good and leave the rest behind. And took instructive criticism and learned empathy and kindness. And it's incredible to see when he would walk into work and people would just run to him to hug him, everybody.

36:16It's just like, this, it's a beautiful thing. It is, oh, that is fantastic. And so that is also one of the next questions. What is your favorite part of restaurant life? It's moments like those, I would assume, where you get to see those. And you don't see that maybe at nine to five, so I don't think people run up to you whenever you come in the door and they're like, yay! Yeah, I mean, that's a beautiful thing. I really, I love that. And I think that's, for me, that is one of the things about it is the people that we work with. And especially at The Mockingbird, it's such a family. And I feel so blessed to be there. And that's how it was when I was at Hot Chicken. I mean, talking about like the values, you know, that was, they were very like second chance, not even second chance, they called it fair chance employment, and they were like on, you know, they were on the Good Morning America for it. And so they took me, and I very much looked like I had been incarcerated when they took me in. I mean, I was- There was like no judgment on their end.

37:17I was missing teeth. I was, you know, changing my meds and therapy. I had PTSD. I had, I was just a felony hanging over my head, you know? And I had all these commitments and no availability. And they said, come in, work when you can, you know? And I was with other people like that. And then I rose up the ranks and managed those people, you know, and like, and that was a really like big learning experience to learn how to manage your friends and learn how to be more professional. And it was really, really hard. And it was, once things started going right and getting better, and they took me in an early recovery, it was hard to keep that in the forefront. That's why I think meetings are so important to keep. Remember where you came from. Remember that you came in looking crazy, like, you know, 130 pounds, no teeth, like a homeless person off the street, you were homeless when they took you in. And look at you now, and like that, you're right, it is an inspiration, and show them. And that's, it is a lot to take on too, because it's like, I have to do good.

38:19I can't mess up. But you still need to be easy on yourself. And, you know, like, and give yourself, and that's what I think like staying in recovery is like really, really important. And so like, I think the values that they had, that it was like your growth, and let me give you access to resources and therapists and get you there. And we had group things that we would do together. And like, it was very team building. And when we kind of went away from that and it became more corporate, is when, for me, it started to just kind of fall apart. And we had talked about the reviews, and how we don't let those get this down. I got fired as a manager in sobriety and recovery, you know, from a bad review. Oh gosh, that's, people don't realize that when they write these bad reviews, that it has real life consequences. So it's like, because like your bacon was overcooked, you're gonna get somebody fired? Like go, that is not fair. Like, okay, that's a whole different topic. Right, right, right, right. To say on that though, I feel like I need to thank that place that you were at, because they gave you that opportunity to shine and hone in on that peer leadership role.

39:32Absolutely. And I feel like you do that in our establishment, and I love that. I know that like, I don't feel like I'm anybody's like manager, or I will do the same duties as everybody that's my team. I feel like this is, I am maybe like the ringleader or the conductor, and everybody's role is just as important as what mine is. I just have to make sure everything is like orchestrated correctly to pull off a successful shift. Having team members like you that don't need a lot of guidance or handholding, because you know what needs to get done, and then also inspire or kind of nudge your team members since I can't be everywhere at the same time, is something I need to thank that company for instilling that or letting that kind of grow within you, because you do that at the restaurant, and so thank them and thank you, because that is something that is a gift.

40:34Lincoln can probably speak to when you have team members that just go in, do their shit, and then hold their other peers responsible for doing it just as well. Those are what you could possibly dream up as the best scenario for a team member. Absolutely, and when you as a person in charge of a restaurant don't have to manage, you can actually lead. Correct. It makes all the difference in the world. So if you don't have to spend all your time watching over individuals about every movement, action, and everything like that, and you can work on the things like the culture and the support outside the four walls of the building and everything like that, that's when you kind of get that cohesive team together that can change lives. Love that. This is deep, kids. Oh my gosh. Brian, you're so quiet. Are you about to cry? Take it away, baby. Okay, so that being said, there's a lot of opinions out there what experts say should happen, and in your opinion, what is one idea that experts in the restaurant world say that you would disagree with?

41:48Along the lines of the customer is always right. I mean, that's the first one that comes to my mind, and that's what I had written down when I was going through the questionnaire, and it's like, you know, first of all, I mean, the customer, we call them guests, and I think that changes your whole mind right there is calling them what they are when they're in your establishment, no matter what establishment it is, because I know it's like, in my mind, and whether that's right or wrong, I do think of like McDonald's, fast food, fast casual, like, you know, nice sit down, nicer sit down, nicest sit down, Michelin star, you know, like, I don't know, like, maybe I shouldn't do that, but like, you know, no matter what it is, you know, first of all, they're not customers, they're guests, and they're not always right. Very rarely are they right, and we cannot please them every single time, and I think that speaks to all those different compartments. Don't come to McDonald's and ask if they have Sonic Ice. Or Whoppers. Because you know that they don't, and so it's unreasonable to expect them to have that for you, you know, and I think it's so instilled in our culture that we will bend over backwards because in the server culture, and I know it is different in the back of the house, but like in the server culture, it's like we are singing and playing for our suppers, so it's like, you know, it's hard not to like internalize that and make it personal, first of all, and like also make it like that you can, you know, move heaven and earth, and all of a sudden you're like, you know, gods or something, and you know, that's unreasonable.

43:19I think we talked about this during our last hangout session whenever we went to drag bingo. There's a book out that you said you were recently reading. Yeah, Unreasonable Hospitality. Yes, and so it is like, it's sometimes if you're able to go and do that and get Sonic Ice and bring it to that guest at McDonald's, then they will begin to expect that each time, but you wanna make it special, but you also wanna tell them like, listen, this is a once situation, so don't think it's gonna happen all the time. Is that, I have yet to open that book, but many people have told me to get into it. Is that kind of the mentality that's behind what's going on in there? Yeah, but I also think it just comes back to the feeling that is associated for that guest when restaurants do go above and beyond and do kind of crazy outlandish things, whether us at a taco restaurant that we don't offer any kind of dessert and the guest is like, oh, I need a dessert. Well, there's a Publix next door and I bolted over to the Publix real quick and buy a frozen pack of drumsticks and serve it to them in the taco restaurant.

44:25They remember those things, rather than I could have put foie gras on a taco and given it to them, they probably wouldn't remember that, but since I went, did something completely different than out and out of the norm, they're gonna remember that and remember that story and everything. And so that is the beauty of that. However, much like no good deed goes unpunished. When you give a mouse a cookie, he asks for a glass of milk afterwards and so on. And so they're like, I look further and I see that guest writing a review about that and putting, they bought over ice cream from Publix for me, especially, and then a guest reads that and then they go in and they expect it. When you're like, no, sorry, we don't serve it or you don't do that, then all of a sudden they're pissed. And like- I think you wanna do everything that you can to make everyone's experience as memorable as possible within reason. Within, yeah, definitely within reason. For the record, I would remember a foie gras taco. Me too, I've had one before.

45:25They're delicious. If you're offering. Yes, yeah. Can I ask how much the food cost or what the price would be on that? Yeah, exactly, yeah. That would be a bit expensive taco. Okay, so on that, in speaking about like what's to change and what experts would say, since 2020 and the kind of crackling of the ultra fine dining that seems to be happening across the restaurant scene, I think for many reasons, what do you see as the future of restaurants and how guests enjoy them? I have a few opinions. And I mean, he probably has better opinions than me, but I think I'm really digging Sean Brock. I like that he puts his sobriety kind of first. I like the way- That's amazing. He does some of his restaurants. The idea, I don't know how it's working, but I think during the pandemic, I think there was a more emphasis. We were essential workers and all of a sudden we're feeding everybody. And then there was an emphasis on dining out and stuff like that.

46:27And I think maybe accessibility, maybe also be gentler with each other and ourselves. And I don't know if that speaks to the culture of fine, fine dining and all of that trickling down to even the most casual experiences. I just think we put a lot of pressure on ourselves to work really crazy hours and really stressful at every single level. And it's like, how do we find more balance, but also make it fun, also make it exciting to be there for each other, for us as a working group of people. Because we are family, all of us together. In the restaurant world, we have so much income. We have so many stories. We just relate, we just get each other. So how do we support each other better? How do we work harder for better wages and more livable working wages for everybody? And I think it's starting to go that way because we're talking about hiring dishwashers for $20. When I started, it was like $7, that was lucky.

47:30I was making $4.25, my first dishwashing job, and I loved it. Absolutely, absolutely. But I was in high school and that was fine. I feel like the dishwashing position is probably the most important in the restaurant. Because that could stop the entire chain. If a server doesn't show up or an essay, management can roll up their sleeves and get into it. It is an art a little bit. And there is a right and wrong way to do it. For sure. And when I worked at Hot Chicken, I think that was the thing is even when the owner came in, the first thing he did was roll up his sleeves and go back to that dish tank. We had a different system there. It was tip-share and those are interesting ideas. And it would have to be different stores, which maybe it's just a different kind of solution to deal with it, but it was a tip-share. Every day you walked in and it was like, where do you want to work? Front of house, back of house, and then all the different positions. But everyone, even the managers, did two weeks on the dish pit and then two weeks on the line and then two weeks frying chicken.

48:30Promotes camaraderie and really forms a team. And everybody's making the same amount so you don't have to worry about. Yeah. That is like this perfect utopia that should happen. It's hard. I think there's even a huge famous restaurateur out of New York tried to move their restaurant to no tips. And it kind of, I don't think the world, America's not ready for it right now. And so it still needs to be tweaked a bit, but there's gotta be some kind of balance in between there. So that's wild. So I do like how you spoke to like Sean Brock and he puts his sobriety out there and is unabashedly kind of making that part of his restaurant, which is fantastic. So. Time will tell how it does, right, I guess. Yeah, and so that's great. So like who favorite people to follow in the restaurant biz and who do you see as an inspiration to you in the local restaurant scene? So I guess that speaks to that. Do you have the same?

49:30You know, I mean, being newer to the Nashville area and everything, Julia Sullivan, Henrietta Redd, hands down, probably one of my go-to restaurants. Those oysters. The oysters are great. The food there is fantastic. The staff there is amazing. We get hugs from people when we walk in. We died there the other night. We haven't seen you for a couple of weeks. What the age? We didn't get a hug. Yeah, so you know, there's something about that specific restaurant that we just thoroughly enjoy. Team Over Butcher & B, I feel, does a great job. This is all outside of your establishment as well. I was about to say, I mean, like, if I'm gonna just jump in, y'all excite me. I'm excited to work at The Mockingbird. I love working at The Mockingbird. I think y'all are so, so talented. I like the idea of working next to Shohan, and I think that's exciting too, and seeing Manique pop in. All of those things, it's just excitement. It's, you know, and I love working there because I don't have to lie about.

50:32I literally can recommend everything on the menu. It's just being able to tailor to the guests and really make it about them and make them have the best experience in having that. And it's exciting, it's fun, and I love it. And so that's y'all, outside of you guys, yes, yeah, you guys, Manique, Sean Brock. Thank you, that is amazing. We really have worked hard to be able to make our team feel safe in our space and be able to express who they genuinely are without feeling any type of judgment. And it's been something that's been carefully curated. And so I'm stoked, and I love the diversity that we have within our four walls. It's, ugh, it's hard. I've never worked, I'm about to cry. I was crying when I was writing this, but I've never worked for like, you know, queer bosses, like queer business owners. Like, it's just, it's special, it's special and amazing.

51:34And it's, you know, and I'm very proud to work there. And you know, I love that, I love that. Thank you, we are proud that you're part of the team. And I feel like- I look up to you both so much, yeah. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. This is turning into like an opal. There is, there is something to be said. Somebody, we have one server who got a job with us and was like, oh, I'm working for the gayest restaurant in Nashville. And then they also took up a part-time serving position at International Market. So now he's working for two of the gayest restaurants in Nashville, and that's fantastic. So if he gets another like third job and he works for Mystic Picnic, I'd be like, okay, this queen is like the trifecta of gayness. Right, right, right, really. He's gonna turn into a fucking rainbow. So that is, that is amazing. Thank you, buddy, that is very sweet. And that is, means more than you will know.

52:34So thank you for those words. And our final commercial break here on Hard to Heart podcast. We are supported by Robins Insurance, a local insurance agency providing customized insurance policies, sound guidance, and attentive service. Robins Insurance is the go-to agency for hospitality professionals in Nashville. Listen, Robins knows how hard industry professionals work every single day. They also know how devastating accidents can be. Be it a grease fire that damages the kitchen, a severe storm that cuts off power, or a customer slip and fall incident. Both the extensive experience and the savvy to create a policy that protects your business from accidents like those, you can rest easy knowing that the work you've put in will not be for nothing. Visit Robins website at robinsins.com to request a consultation or call Matthew Clements directly. His number is 863-409-9372.

53:34Protection you can trust, that's Robins. Let's talk about the WineView app. We all want to increase our wine sales in our restaurants, but wine, let's take it, is intimidating. It's intimidating for servers to learn. It's intimidating for our guests to learn if they don't know already. It's intimidating to order wine if you don't know what you want. The WineView app has your solution. They are the only wine resource app guaranteed to increase wine sales in two months. Really? Wow, that's amazing. They utilize customizable training tools to keep service staff recommending wine at every single table. WineView has a customer-facing component that restaurants will want to improve guest satisfaction while increasing wine sales. They customize your menus and wine pairings inside the app, making an ideal pre-shift training tool. Save time and combat staff turnover by streamlining your wine education processes and putting it into the palm of your server's hand. 80% of guests say they would drink more wine if it was recommended in or paired by their server.

54:38Think differently about your wine program. Empower your servers, streamline your training process, delight guests, and sell more wine. Download the WineView app today. It's a free download, and check it out. See what you guys think, and when you love it, call Rachel from the WineView app at 215-262-5685 or send her an email at Rachel. That's R-A-C-H-E-L at wineview.com. So that's kind of what I was gonna touch base on as far as the restaurants having a rep of a high turnover and what are the key things that you think lead to a good company culture, and is it possible to retain talent in this market when your team members may have aspirations outside of this field, meaning, especially in Nashville, we have a lot of singer-songwriters and artists that are, their job within your establishment is just a job, it's not a career. Yeah, I agree, but I definitely think there is a way forward for restaurants to attract and retain great talent.

55:48I think, get rid of uniforms, people. Work attire, whatever you wanna call it, get rid of it. Let your team come as you are. They wanna have purple hair, let them have purple hair. Tattoos, piercings, I just think outside of maybe fine dining steakhouses where you have to wear the jacket and stuff like that, if you are a local Nashville-based establishment serving small plates and everything, don't require your staff to make you wear a uniform. And I also think that tourists like that when they come to visit, because they're like, oh, it felt so Nashville that I had like, so authentic. Yeah, that a server was out of the box and had five earrings on. Sure. Well, I think then the server or the employee is going to feel more comfortable in their own skin and then they're going to be able to do their job better. It's just, it's kind of a cascading effect. Oh yeah. Yeah, I think there is a giant shift in this whole culture.

56:49Oh my God, coming up, we had, when we were servers, it was like your apron had to stand up on its own. Yeah. And it was striped. The starched shirt tie. Absolutely. The starched white shirts, all that. I came up in Bob Evans. So I started Bob Evans Dishwashing and then they found out I had a personality and put me through the rink. So I went through the kitchen and then I went outside serving and I mean, the uniform, I got sent home often for my uniform. I almost got fired for my uniform because then when I started drinking and stuff, it was impossible to starch my crap. For Bob Evans, for what? For, you know, like, but that, I mean. Eggs over my hammy, I mean. Oh right, and it's like, you know, and we're in our, we're in our bubble and I just came from Condado and I could wear whatever I want. And like, you guys let us express ourselves the way that we want. I wear some things and I'm like, I don't know if they're gonna like it. I wonder if y'all are gonna send me home and you never, you never do and you never would. Like, you know, so it's like, yeah, that is so important. It's a game changer. But when we're in our little bubble and how we treat each other, we forget that the outside, I forgot that the outside world is still very much like that. Like, oh, you have tattoos, you can't be hired here.

57:51Like, you know, and I remember feeling that a lot. Oh, you have tattoos, you don't have teeth or like anything. We gotta take out your nose ring. And like, put a Band-Aid over it. So the guests can't know that you're here. It's like, why? That's so bonkers to me. Yeah, weird. I don't know. I'm glad that we've kind of are shifting away from that as a society that might fall under like, where we see the future of restaurant and that might fall kind of as a category and answer underneath that. So, and I think we already kind of touched on this, but given that everyone is a critic in this current time due to social media platforms and all of them offering the opportunity for guests to publicly rate their experience. Freaking Facebook, Google, Yelp, TripAdvisor, the list goes on. How do you deal with the negative reviews that come through? That goes for both of y'all, because I know as team members, y'all also read the reviews for our restaurant. And I love that you're that kind of invested in the experience and what guests perceive.

58:54But how do you deal with the negative reviews and then how do you celebrate the good reviews? Or do you even read the reviews at all? Yeah, we read all of them and we respond to all of them as well. But we, any kind of negative review, we submit a response to them. There's third party platforms out there that will compile all your reviews together and kind of, you can respond within that platform and it shoots it out to Google, Facebook and everything like that. So, you know, I think the negative ones from kind of my perspective, you know, you can tell really quickly if they're just angry and, you know, trying to be vindictive about their experience at your restaurant. And there's no way to recover. Exactly, you know. So it's kind of like, hey, sorry, we're not your jam. Thanks for trying us out. Good luck in your future endeavors and where you're eating. But also, you know, I think they can be, you know, learning moments for your team and getting a good gauge of your operations inside the four walls of your restaurant. You know, definitely, we definitely celebrate positive reviews.

59:55You know, we encourage guests to leave reviews. I think it's, reviews aren't going away anytime soon. You know, so if you are able to embrace it as a business and kind of then use it as a tool to kind of flip it on the public of saying, hey, look at all of our great reviews. I use Google for reviews all the time to kind of, if I'm traveling and, you know, I see you got a 3.8 instead of a 4.6, I'm going to the 4.6. So if you are chatting with the table and you know they had a great experience, we encourage them, hey, if you're an online reviewer, please, we would love for you to rate us on. Yeah, that is fantastic. Also, my favorite Condado shirt ever is a bad one. And so like some reviews, you know, you just have to be like, whatever. Like the review was just like, this whole place wack as hell. Yeah, it was a one star review. And so they made a shirt that said the whole place wack as hell. And then someone just put like fake tacos as one of the reviews. So just like a shirt that just said like fake tacos, Condado tacos. I love that.

01:00:55You have to embrace it. You have to embrace it. If it is like constructive criticism, it's like, yes, thank you. We're happy to learn from this experience. But if it's just, you know, one star, there was construction through the window. Yeah, that's like, sorry. I mean, there's nothing we can do about it. And you can kind of laugh about it. Here's how windows work, man. I like how you turned, I like how y'all turned that around like that. Cause like, yeah, you can't beat yourself about it. You can't fire team members over that. Like it's just, it's ridiculous. I was going to say, how's your head? I've had no complaints. But like, I mean, I feel like all my reviews from Mockingbird are really great. And I feel like the same, I mean, I'm the same person as I was when I worked at this other job. I mean, people would go out of their way to mention my name and how freaking awesome I was. I mean, I'm not good at much in my life, but like I, No, you are fake. Don't tell you for sure. But I'm really good with people and I'm very kind and I'm engaging with people and I leave impressions. So the one time I had one bad review out of literally hundreds, I made lifelong customers of this place, regulars every day because one person said the one, the person with the green mullet was shaming me for not wearing a mask at the beginning of the pandemic when nobody knew anything.

01:02:05They're like, we're gonna have to let you go. Of course they let my whole management team go. I knew it was coming, but it was like that review, but it really saved me. I wasn't having a good time there, but like, yeah, they really took those reviews. I wasn't the first and only that got fired from a bad review from that place. And that is when the culture had changed like I was discussing earlier. It was like, okay, so now you're letting people go for complaining about things that, you know, like they're not valid criticisms. Of course, if you need a write-up for like, blah, blah, blah was rude to me, or what, you know what I mean? Like for sure, or that is a good coaching moment. Like, okay, watch here, but like we're also working with convicts and stuff. So it's like, okay. Talking about couples in the restaurant industry, that is definitely something hard to see when your partner is unhappy in a job and you are happy in your current job and everything and trying to work through of, well, you can change jobs, but sometimes it's not just as easy as I'm unhappy, I'm gonna go find a new job and everything like that. So, you know, I definitely would say some of our, you know, disagreements and everything have definitely spawned from when they were unhappy.

01:03:13With a previous employer and everything. And, you know, I was kind of- Done hearing about it. Done hearing about it every day. It's like, you come home every day, change it. Nothing's gonna change if you don't change anything, so. And so, and the last argument we've actually got in was me venting actually, and it was, and he went straight to the solutions. Cause we like to, you know, that is one of the tools. We have that recovery, we talk in solutions. Okay, but like I was wanting to be heard and not wanting a solution. And so the solution came at me and I was like- I'm not asking for that. This is not where we're at right now. Yes, but. Yeah, right. Like I should be allowed to vent. Yeah, so it's just, you know, those miscommunications. And even after 10 years, it's not simple. It's not easy. And some of the things you learn, you forget. And we change as people. So I'm excited to see what this new iteration of us is, but it's transformed and changed many, many times. So I know that, you know, it's, I feel like I'm in the right place with this person. You know, I love him so much. And we've been through so, so, so much that it's insane.

01:04:17So this is really my partner in crime. Like it literally in crime. You mean your partner in crime. In past crime, yes. This is, I am so like, we're very fortunate to have met y'all at this stage on where you're at. You wouldn't have liked us before. I may have loved you and maybe not liked you, you're correct. But like, I feel y'all just have this like energy and this like kind of gusto that is admirable and beautiful. So like, I'm very glad that y'all came into our orbit because this is, it's amazing to watch. And especially as like couples that restaurant together, it is great to like, and we don't do this often enough and we do need to, is to like sit down and have these in and be able to vent amongst ourselves because we can understand and relate to each other. And like, some of our friends that are maybe lawyers or have nine to five jobs, they're like, okay, well I don't really get it.

01:05:19It's just different stressors in different industries that are harder to understand. Yeah, and we don't have to go through it with each other. Like, well, this is how, you know, this is how this system works and this is how, and this is how it deviated from that. It's like, y'all already understand, yeah, right. Whenever I randomly start to yell hands. Right, right. In a kind of a sporadic way. We don't have to go through all the lingo. We already have the vocabulary. We know what it means, yeah. So that being said, and kind of like touching based on what we did about everybody being a critic, if there was an app created where we as the employees are able to rate guests, what would be the name of that app or that website? Wow, that's a good one. I mean, I think, you know, Karen is just the most obvious one out there. But would you spell it like C-A-R-I-N?

01:06:19Like Karen. Yeah, because I'm Karen, but you're Karen. Mm, that might, we might be onto something right there. Yeah. Okay, buddy, which one would you come up with? Oh my God, I was thinking it would have to be like, like something with tips, like tip in, or like just the tip, you know, like, or just a tip. Like, I don't know, like for, you know, a tip for you, a tip for me, a tip for you, just a little bit, not the whole thing. No, I'm just kidding. Maybe like Grat Brat? Ooh, ooh, Kim Petras, that sounds, it's very Grat Brat. I'm the Grat Brat. What, what? Well, that's the kind of music that you're into. I know that you love, and I wish we could play it at the restaurant, but I think Slut Pop is not. It's not. But Unholy is, and it's Grammy winning now. I'm like, that's from the person who brought us Slut Pop. It's amazing. I'm so happy for it. We can play that during brunch for sure. Absolutely, yeah, yeah, it's still slutty though. It's still slutty, but it's not as slutty as Slut Pop.

01:07:21It was, what was that one time we had like a family, cause on Sundays we get like the church crowd at the restaurant after brunch, and it was like around noon, and it was a family sitting at a table, and I think I was running some eggs over to the table, and I was like, oh, ma'am, here's some eggs for y'all to share, whatever. And then there was a silence between when I dropped it, between when she said thank you, but their speaker was right over their table, and it was like a song that's like, can you pay my automobiles? Can you pay my telephone bills? Bills, bills, bills by Destiny's Child? It's iconic. And so I was like, this is great. I love what's happening now. Like this is just the- Oh, Beyonce, we love you, I'm the queen. The interesting kind of- The anthem of our lives. Right, bills, bills, bills. I mean, it was, it started then. That was one of their first hits. That was one of Beyonce's first hits. Well, she is. And look at her now. And look at her now, yeah. Grammy, the most granting women artist ever.

01:08:23Kudos, girl, yes, and that was on a work thread. That's a whole different conversation in itself. That's hilarious. That is pretty funny. So listen, it's been almost an hour that we've been chatting. And I know that this is a day off for y'all as well. So I wanna kinda get y'all anyway to enjoy the rest of the day. But before we do, there's some speed questions that we're going to do. And I'll ask the first set. And you were to answer these off the cuff with- Either love or loathe. Yes. And then Brian will ask the next set. Okay, are y'all ready? And I think by now people can tell the difference of your voices so they know who's who. Sure, I would think so. That's funny. This is Lincoln. And that's Lincoln. Okay, here we go, speed questions. Love or loathe? Automatic gratuity at restaurants. Love. Love. Sonic Ice. Don't know. Loathe. Music curated to the concept of the restaurant.

01:09:24Love. Depends. Britney. Love. Love. It's Britney, bitch. Bitch, no. Bitch, who's that bitch? Hot chicken. Love. Loathe. Country music. Learning to love. Love. Electric scooters. Loathe. He has one. No, I have a Vespa. It's a Vespa. That's totally different. That is so different. So different. It's an Italian electric scooter. We'll also loathe. Wine flights. Love. Okay. Prefer Margarita flights. Okay. Oh, all right, cadara. Patio seating. Love. Love. Karaoke. Loathe. Love. Love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love, love. Incense.

01:10:25To karaoke. Incense. He loathes them. He likes the Palos, Santa, the smudges. I finally found one that he likes. I'm like, yes, you're into witchcraft now. Party buses. Loathe, oh my gosh, loathe. Even the drag bus? I've never been on it. I'm sure I would have it. Maybe we should go together. Team outing. Yeah. That's the next bird outing. Specifically the Taylor Swift one. Taytay. Okay, egg on a burger. Love. Love. Mayo with fries. Love. Love. Hot tea orders in June. Oh, loathe, but I love to order them. I hate to serve them, I love to order them. No, you do not. Oh, never, never, never. Everywhere he gets hot tea. Sauce on side. Love. Love. Okay, okay. What about electric stove tops? Loathe.

01:11:25Loathe, but I have one. Okay, cool. So now Brian is gonna ask the speed questions that you have to pick one or the other. Y'all can say it at the same time or right after each other. Miley or Dolly? Miley. Dolly. Can I interject real quick? Sure. In our early days, Bunny had a whole musical written about the story of our love relationship to, what was it, Bangers? Yeah. Each song had a different period of our relationship and it was a whole musical. Yeah. Oh, that's beautiful. I have to find that, yeah, yeah. You do. You need to resurrect it and perform it. Both Miley and Dolly, that's too hard. That's impossible. Dolly because Dolly spawned Miley. That's why I say. Reese or Tay-Tay? Reese. Tay-Tay. Mild chicken or flocking hot chicken? Flocking hot. Flocking hot. Willie or Garth? Willie. DJ or band?

01:12:26DJ. Band. Broadway or Printers Alley? Broadway. Printers. I feel like this is purposeful. No, no, it's not. East Nashville or the Gulch? East Nashville. East Nashville. Breakfast or lunch? Breakfast. Breakfast. Robert's or Kid Rock? Robert's. Yeah, Robert's. Definitely not Kid Rock. Definitely never Kid Rock. I don't know who Robert's is, but definitely not Kid Rock. Robert's Western Whale. Robert's Western Whale. Oh, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah. I look good in cowboy boots, though. Demon, Bruin, or Denumbrium? Denumbrium. Denumbrium. Toast or micros? Toast. Counter service lunch versus full service lunch? Counter service. Counter service. 15 separate check requests, but they spend a lot of money. Or one check, but they barely purchased anything.

01:13:2815 separate, easy. Yeah. Yeah. Give me the vengeance. Because you know I can do it. You know I can make it happen. Yeah, yeah. Fusion or confusion? Confusion. Yeah. Well, very good. Very good. Yeah, you guys, that's fantastic, because as we said earlier in the other show we did with the boys, Adam and Zach, all things 90s are coming back in style. Clothing, music, the whole thing. That Beyonce album is very house, gay house. Yes, it is. And so is food. Mm. So Fusion is making a comeback. Ooh, I'm not mad at it. It's so funny, because that's when I learned my chops. You know, it was like 90, 92 to like 2000 was some of my formative years and everything. But if I start seeing sun-dried tomatoes and goat cheese and everything. Oh my God, that's insane. I would love it. I would be so happy. They are, are they all making their comeback? I don't know, but they are a little maligned.

01:14:29They're quite delightful, and I feel like they have been unfairly subjected to like a relic of 13 decades. Yeah, definitely. Agreed, agreed. You know, it's not. It is a good company. It's just, I mean, it is tasty, yes, but just no truffle oil. Yeah, no truffle oil. Cosmos, lemon drops, long island iced teas, espresso martinis. Dirty Shirley. They're all on the rise. All of them. It's bonkers to me. I thought we've grown past it, isn't it? In parallel. It's been 30 years. There's a lot of savory cocktails that are coming around too. Yeah. With, you know, both Virgin and. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. And I think that whole exploration is wonderful to see all the craft mocktails that are really interesting and it's not like pineapple juice and soda water. Yeah, or ginger beer and lime juice. Shout out to Hawthorne over in West Nashville. Are they doing some great. Great NAVA program over there. Great crafted cocktails. They have something called the Winston. I crave it.

01:15:30I would think we should go get a Winston after this. It's like an old fashioned, but they make it with like black teens. It's so delicious. Oh, I do like that then. Full bodied, you know, like complex flavors layered. It's really yummy. Guys, like there's so the bottle of non-alcoholic sparkling wine I got you all looked really. Oh my gosh. Really interesting. I saw that at like Frugal McDougall and then they had next to it like a no groney, which is like a Virgin Negroni. And I'm like, that's very interesting. Yeah. So like I wanted to try that one next. So I might get that next to bring it to the restaurant. We can test that out. And if that's fantastic, we need to add it onto the menu at the restaurant. Because we only have like punches or whatnot for non-alcoholic options. But I think it is due time that there's something more nuanced and sophisticated. So it's like, come on, like you don't have to dump down the flavor profile. No, not at all. So.

01:16:30And you can do like fun herbs and adaptogens and make it even, you know, something cool like that or different like, I don't know, that, that, this is awesome. I just had like a. Lime and ginger beer does not make a good. Summit and like, thank you. But like, let's be a little more creative. And like, I feel the same way, though, like at the restaurant and they're like, what do you have Virgin? But I'm like, I really are punches so much fun. And it comes in a bag like that is that's an easy sell. Also, maybe just change the container or change the even. It's just like a cubed ice in it. Like the big block of ice changes your perception of it with a garnet. You know, like, yeah, you know, I don't know. But we tried to really nice having on blank the other day. And it was tasted just like it was really, really, really good. Yeah. And I've had some really bad non alcoholic wines. And I'm like, this is just great. Yeah. Like, OK. Like, but this was very, very complex. And it was really good. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Well, listen, you two, this was definitely so fantastic having you all on here and hearing a bit more about your story and hearing about your restaurant experience and about the places that you're at here in Nashville.

01:17:37When you all agreed to be on this and then also touch base on the sober aspect, I was like, I have to make sure you're on here because that speaks a lot to how individuals handle stress in this industry. And you all are kind of my beacons for that. If anybody's like having those issues here, I kind of use y'all as like a touch base. And so thank you all. And I think you'll send people our way to if you're like, hey, I know people who are struggling with alcoholism, send them our way. We're supposed to be giving back and helping. That's what we have to do to stay sober. So don't feel free. Just like give them our number. We that's we don't care. I don't care. I know it's alcoholics anonymous. I don't know. Link, it might be a little bit. I know you guys better than you know. But you can always I'll send them to you. But if you if you feel like, oh, I need some double power for this and you tap Lincoln in and y'all can do that. Right. Right. And that's inspiring to me to learn that you guys did, you know, counseling beforehand and learned all those tools.

01:18:38That's really that's interesting because I was just thinking and then you brought all those things up. I'm like, maybe some counseling would be good, you know, like and we do have a lot in like, you know, 12 step meetings. But yeah, counseling, I think someone like more professional or is up here like a different kind of peer that's in the industry. You know, that can be very helpful. Yeah, it is. It was very helpful for us. And so and so it is as well hanging out with others that can really understand us. And like, I think that we being that we have those layers together that we understand each other with being, you know, an LGBTQ family and then also being in the restaurant world. We have those two layers to really bond us together. And so I thank the universe for bringing you all into our orbit. And I wish you all a very happy Valentine's Day. Thank you. And I I cheers to you all with with love and health and just a shit ton of happiness. You know, thank you so much for sure. Thanks for coming with us, y'all. Okay. Okay. So.

01:19:40All right, thank you so much to Mikey and Brian for producing this episode of Hard to Heart, the Boys of the Bird podcast. Want to say that I am not in Hawaii. I wish I was in Hawaii and Caroline has been sick, so she has not been in Hawaii either. Maybe we'll maybe we'll close my eyes here in a minute and pretend I'm in Hawaii just so that we can make that true. Thank you guys so much for coming in and filling in for us. And creating this amazing content. Hey, if you're out there and you want a restaurant and you'd like to do something like this, you want to host your own podcast, send me a message at Brandon underscore in our are on Instagram or Brandon at Nashville restaurant radio dot com. I would I love to hear from you. Maybe we can make something happen. Another pop up. I love hearing other voices on this channel and I love supporting our community, which I love so, so much, which means you out there, everybody out there. I love you. I hope you're being safe out there. And again, I love you guys. Bye.