Jamie Pruett

00:00Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City, and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. We are powered by Gordon Food Service. My name is Brandon Styll and I am your host. We are so excited today to talk with Jamie Pruitt who's the bakery manager over at Bakery by Frothy Monkey. He's also the co-chair for Ben's Friends. Ben's Friends is a support group for members of the food and beverage industry. So founded in 2016, the mission of Ben's Friends is to offer hope, fellowship, and a path forward to anyone who struggles with substance abuse and addiction.

01:00By coming together, starting dialogues, and acknowledging that substance abuse cannot be overcome by isolation and willpower alone, Ben's Friends hopes to write a new chapter in the lives of food and beverage professionals across the country. I'm so excited that Ben's Friends is here in Nashville and I'm so excited that Jamie Pruitt picked up the ball and ran with it because this is something we need. This is going to be my new thing that we work towards. We've got some great charities here in town, but this one's near and dear to my heart. People in this industry. We talk with Jamie today because he has been sober for almost four years and he tells his story. This is an incredible story. This is a man coming on our show and being vulnerable and being open and honest to tell his story. He tells why he started drinking, kind of talked about his drinking career, and then he talked about what he drank, why he stopped drinking, and then his life afterwards.

02:01This is a really interesting story and if you're somebody out there who drinks, good for you. I have no issue with people drinking alcohol. I have no issue with alcohol. That's not a thing here. For me, personally, I can't just have just one drink. I have to have like 12 and then I ruin people's lives and relationships and that's not good. I recognize that in myself and in active addiction, I did not recognize it at all. One of our goals here on the show is to normalize the conversation around not drinking. There's a huge movement right now to not drink. There's a bunch of people I think came out of the pandemic and were like, holy shit, that was the tool that I had to cope with stuff. It's a powerful tool, but it doesn't solve any issues and here today, we're going to talk about some really powerful things that do solve issues and this is really fun. This conversation gets intense and I hope that you love it.

03:02I hope you love it like I did. Jamie, thank you for joining the show. He's like a brother to me. I love that guy. He's amazing and he's with Bakery by Frothy Monkey, so if you're a restaurant new to Bakery, we love Sharpies. That's who you should buy your bakery from, but if Sharpies can't take care of you, then you should call Jamie because Sharpies, they're amazing, Aaron Mosso. But this episode is brought to you by Corson Fire and Safety and it is going to be commercial free today. Yes, hold on. We're going to talk about my guy, Kevin Rose. Okay, there we go. Hey everybody, back in the studio here. I want to tell you about Kevin Rose because Kevin Rose with Corson Fire and Security, he's their restaurant guy. You need a guy. I keep talking about this. You need a guy. Kevin Rose, he is the restaurant guy at Corson Fire and Security.

04:04We're talking about hood suppression systems. We're talking about fire extinguishers, talking about staff education, emergency exit lighting. They come by and automatically check all of these things for you whenever you need them done. So when the fire inspector comes in, you can feel the confidence knowing that you're completely taken care of and they cost less than everybody else. So they're doing some amazing things. Fire extinguishers, fire sprinkler systems, fire system alarms, security systems, monitoring kitchen fire systems. They got all vehicle suppression systems. If you got delivery vehicles, they can make sure you got the right extinguisher in that vehicle to keep you safe. So give Kevin a call at 615-974-2932. That's 615-974-2932. So safety is really important and this whole episode today is brought to you by Corson. I want to thank them for supporting us in this mission of talking about alcoholism and talking about sober curiosity.

05:06You know, it doesn't mean that you have to say, I'm an alcoholic, guys. That's not what that means. It means that some people just kind of go, hey, I want to check this out, but I don't want to admit defeat. Maybe I want to stop drinking for a little while and I want to see what that looks like. Will my life get better? I think a lot of people are in this boat where they say, I know my life will get better. I know everything will life get better, but it's so damn hard because I'm, I'm lonely and I'm social. And one of the things is I go out and get drinks with people and I'll tell you right now, guys, I go out and get drinks with you all the time. I just don't drink alcohol. I love Pellegrino. It's my, it's my jam. Pellegrino. I love non-alcoholic beer. You can drink that. It does the trick. You can still hang out with people. You just don't feel guilty the next day because you said some shit you shouldn't have said. It's pretty cool. I don't know. It's a thing. So let's jump in here with Jamie Pruitt and I hope that you have a wonderful week. We're so excited. We're going to have Alysic and Jerry, who's the partner and chef over at Buttermilk Ranch.

06:07She's going to be on next week and we've got lots, lots of good stuff coming up. So just hang in there with us. Let me know what you think about this episode right now with Jamie Pruitt. Super excited today to welcome in Jamie Pruitt. He is the production manager over at the Frothy Monkey Bakery or is it Bakery by Frothy Monkey? Bakery by Frothy Monkey. He is the production manager at Bakery by Frothy Monkey and he's also the co-chair of Ben's Friends. I'm fortunate enough to know him through both of these ventures. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, Jamie. Man, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me on, Brad. This is really exciting because I started in 2022 and on January the 2nd, I told my story. I came on with Jen, who was my co-host at the time, and I said, I really want to open the conversation around alcoholism. Yes.

07:08And I don't think you have to define it around alcoholism as much as, hey, I don't want to drink. I don't want to drink. Right. I feel like I drink too much. If that's something that's in your brain, I wanted to start the conversation on normalizing, hey, look, it's okay to not drink. Not drinking is a normal thing. It's the only thing out there that when you stop doing, people are like, what's wrong with that? Why are you not ingesting poison into your body anymore? I don't want to. It's not healthy for me. Like myself? Yeah. I don't know. So every month, I kind of vowed that I really wanted to talk to somebody who's in the industry, who stopped drinking and kind of ask them to tell their story, but I felt like I had to tell mine first. I had to get vulnerable and kind of go, but you know, it was the most amazing process because it was like, I did that and then I felt like I had exercised all my demons. There it is. There's the worst parts about me. You all know it now. Let's move forward. That's honestly been one of the biggest gifts of recovery to me.

08:11For someone who has historically been very closed off from people and tended to keep close to my chest in recovery, I found that the more vulnerable I am, the more honest I am about who I am, where I'm at, what I'm going through. Not only is it freeing, but it encourages other people to do the same thing. I mean, when I first got sober, I was going to meetings for months before I really shared anything in great depth and detail. And the thing that encouraged me to do that was sitting in a room with other people who were doing the same thing. The guy who's my sponsor now, what drew me to him, they tell us, you know, find someone who has what you want and work with them. And I listened to this guy sit in this meeting and just share raw, honest, vulnerable truths. And I was like, fuck, I want to be able to do that. I don't know how to do that.

09:12And I was like, can you help me do that? And that was the second best decision I've ever made. I think that there's so many things as us as alcoholics, I label myself, I'm fine with accepting the fact that I'm an alcoholic. I get it. It's fine. If you don't, a lot of people are scared because they don't want to label. I don't want to be labeled an alcoholic everywhere I go. It's like this brand. You don't have to label yourself that if you don't want to. But you and I are both, we go to meetings. We do that. I was void of any emotions I didn't have. I thought that men weren't allowed to have emotions. I thought that we as a man, I had to be this Teflon, hard as a rock, I'm stoic, like, I'm a leader and you're not going to touch me. When I had no clue that I was numbing, that I had emotions all the time, I had no idea what to do with my emotions.

10:13When I stopped drinking, all of a sudden I'd be sitting at dinner and I'd be like, what the hell is going on? Why am I freaking out? And I was so angry and I was like, I don't even know what the fuck I'm feeling. I don't know what this is about. And that was through hearing other people share and go, oh, so I could process through these things and I can work on them. When I first learned that men did this and they shared their feelings in this stuff and I was like, that's what I want. In active addiction, I had no clue how much I not only wanted that, but I needed that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm from the South, I was born and raised in the Southeastern U.S. and that whole Southern stoic unfeeling thing, that's a big part of that culture. Yeah, that's how we do. And just like you, I did not know how much I was not allowing myself to feel.

11:19And for me, my story and my history with alcohol, I never really went to excess when things were good. Like, I didn't get hammered to celebrate good things. I didn't, you know, very rarely did I go on a tear in public. For me, it was always when I was feeling things that I did not like and what you hurt, depression, disappointment, anxiety, whatever, the overwhelming sensation that those emotions that I had never learned to cope with was too much for me to bear. And I would drink until I couldn't feel that anymore. Where does that come from? You know, through all this, like, let's get into your story. I want to get into how you got the deal at the bakery and all this stuff in your hospitality history. But while we're on this track, let's go like growing up. Did you have siblings? Are you like a middle child? I'm the oldest of four.

12:19Tell me your story. So, yeah, I'm the oldest of four that come from a very, very religious background. My dad is actually a Pentecostal preacher. Wow. And a lot of people are stunned when they hear that after being around me for a while because I mean, I'm in food, I've worked in kitchens for so long, I cuss like a sailor. I've got ink up and down both my arms, you know, and it's like, what? Well, that made sense to me. You said that naturally. Yeah. You got to go as far in the opposite direction as you can. Yeah. It makes complete sense to me. You know, again, grew up in a very, very religious culture. Our entire identity was wrapped up in that faith and the church that we attended. And it was a very closed society, like you weren't encouraged to go outside the church.

13:19And it was rare to see anyone new come in because it was just such a closed off society. And it's only really been, and I'm jumping around a little bit, but it's only been in recent years with a lot of very intense therapy that I've been able to label my experience growing up in that church as religious abuse. And you know, say I have religious trauma, but you know, I began in my late teens, early twenties to really start questioning things. And I hadn't even started drinking. I didn't start drinking until my late twenties, maybe even not until I was about 30. Wow. Well, again, being in that religious culture, alcohol was never even around. How old are you today? I will be 40 in almost a month. Wow. So congratulations. Thanks. You didn't have like a long drinking career. It was prolific. It was a star that burned brightly and quickly.

14:23As I began to kind of question things in that religious culture, there were, I had a lot of questions that I didn't get satisfactory answers to. And I went from being very involved in the church. My ex-wife and I were involved in the children's ministries and very involved in a big part of that church to just becoming so disillusioned and just felt empty inside. It just, and I can look back now and realize that a lot of the reason that I felt so unfulfilled is that there had always been a longing and a deep desire within me to belong and to feel like I fit in. And I felt like the more involved I got with the church, the more work that I did, the higher the visibility that I had, that that would gain me acceptance and belonging and make me feel like I fit in.

15:33And it just didn't work. And especially when I began to question things, God, you don't fucking do that. No, you can't do that. You don't question the Bible. You don't question the man behind the pulpit. You don't, how dare you question God, who do you think you are? And that drove me from that environment and it was a sense of freedom that I felt stepping away from that because for the first time in 22 years, I was beginning to live my life on my terms and be who I wanted to be and not what I felt like everyone was telling me to be. So in that moment where you feel like I'm breaking away because I'm going to find some individuality and I need my own thing, imagine at that point you're letting a lot of people down. I mean, that fear of leaving, it's like Wonka, nobody ever comes out and nobody ever comes in. Exactly.

16:34I mean, when you leave, what did your dad, I don't know if he was the pastor, but if your dad, what did people say? Well, my parents had moved away at that point and were attending another church in another state. I do remember the pastor of the church that I grew up in at the time, he could kind of see that we were pulling away. We were becoming more and more quiet. We were becoming less involved. We had stepped away from the children's ministry, turned in, we had keys to the church, turned those in and I remember him stopping me in the parking lot of the church one day and just he said, are y'all leaving? And I just, I didn't know what to tell him. I knew in my heart that I was done. But that fear, like you were talking, that fear of I'm going to let all these people down.

17:34There's going to be all this shame and I'm going to have to hear all of this, you know, you know better and you know, the Lord loves you and Jesus can fix it. Well, that hadn't been my experience and I need to try something. Yeah, I just, this isn't working. Something else has to, there's got to be something else. Now through this, you mentioned your ex-wife, you're doing this with your, with your wife. Right. What was her take on the whole thing? Were you guys congruent on this? Like, hey, look, we're both not feeling this and, or was this something she, was she kind of kicking and screaming? How did that go? No, we, if I'm being honest about it, I feel like she reached that point before I did. Okay. Of disillusionment and, and a desire to step away. And I remember, you know, and I held out as long as I did because it's all I knew and I was scared to death of the unknown. But the last time that we attended that church, it was, it was an Easter Sunday and it was I want to say 2007 and we sat in the car getting ready to go home and we just, we just sat there for a second.

18:50And I just, I looked at her and I just said, I don't think I can do this anymore. And she said, me neither. And that was, that was all the conversation around it. Wow. And we just, we left and didn't go back. So when I'm going to fast forward a long ways here, but you know, when I take somebody new, I have people call me kind of regularly that says, Hey man, I think I kind of want to stop drinking, which is probably my favorite phone call to get, I mean, it's like the best phone. I was like, yes, good. Great. That's amazing. If that's what you feel, I'm happy to help. If you're not happy to help, whatever it might be, that's just, we're part of service. Most people that don't want to go to a meeting, you know, that's where I take people is go to a meeting. That's a great thing. That's just a good way to have a support group. People don't like the God thing. There's a higher power. And part of it is you have to pray to God to take away your insanity. God could and would if he were salt. Yes, exactly. And people hate that.

19:51Like, I don't want to go to an AA meeting because it's like, it's all that God shit. I don't want to fuck. I don't believe it's like, dude, that's not a thing. How did that, for you going into that, was there trepidation there? Oh, man, you know, in my early recovery, I went to a lot of very rigid traditional groups. And that did almost scare me off, because again, at the time, I didn't realize it, but I had a lot of deep religious trauma. And I became so uncomfortable around the God talk. And like that did just, it really, I knew I didn't want to drink again. I knew I was done with that. That just clearly was not working. I cannot wait to get to the point where you, in your story, where you come to that decision. Oh, it's great. But you knew that, but then the God thing was... And I remember talking with my OG sponsor and just telling him, like, this is hard for me.

20:51Like, I had never gotten to a point where I identified myself as an atheist. I could not and still can't look at the incredible splendor of nature and the wonders of the universe that are on display for us. I can't look at all of that and go, this was a cosmic accident. My perception of God at that time was this kid who got a really cool set of Legos or Tinker toys for Christmas and, oh, look at this cool thing I built. I'm bored. I'm going to go do something else now. That was how I felt. Like, yeah, sure, there's a God, but he does not give two shits about me. And I remember talking with my OG sponsor and I was telling him this. And he said, well, I want you to do me a favor. He said, here's my suggestion, because in recovery, we're quick to... We don't tell someone what to do.

21:52We make suggestions. These are suggested as a program of recovery. Exactly. Look at you. You got the big book down, man. That preamble is impressive. But he said, here's my suggestion. He's like, you believe that there is a God, but he just doesn't care about you. And I was like, yeah, that's pretty much where I am. Perfect. And exactly, he's like, that's fantastic. That is the best place to start. He said, why don't you just try pretending like God's listening and just talk about whatever you need to talk about. He's like, clearly, you're angry at God. Tell him that and just pretend for a split second that God has stopped everything he's got going on to hear what you've got to say. And that was a real perspective shift for me because it helped me to kind of put aside the animosity I had towards the culture I grew up in and look at it with a fresh set of eyes.

22:54There's a guy in my home group in recovery, and I love his analogy. He's like, the God that I grew up with was the angry bearded white man in the sky. He also comes from a very religious background. And he said, that was the God of my parents. And to have the spiritual life that I have now, I had to kill the God of my parents and get to know God in my own way. And he said, he's a very, I want to be just like him when I grow up. He said, you know, that was the God I was raised with. The higher power, the God that I have now is leaning over against the wall wearing t-shirts and billy jeans, barefoot, smoking a cigarette going, what the fuck are you doing, man? I love that. I love that language in the big book and in recovery about, you know, they're very careful in that writing around spirituality and the concept of a higher power to say, God as God reveals himself to us.

24:08There's no specific language in that literature. It leaves it open for us to find God and allow a higher power, the universe, whatever. If it's a doorknob that you want to use as your higher power, that's the thing. It's amazing. I think when you take a moment and you pray or you meditate and you kind of just saying the things, God, I'm angry at you. It just gives you peace, but there's a side of this thing that that's really amazing. It's funny because I grew up in the Christian world. My father was a publisher of Christian music magazines my whole life and, you know, right in the middle of the Christian music world. And we went to church every year. I had a guy in church, I was at Baptist Church, and the guy said, aren't we blessed today to be here? Aren't we blessed today to be here at this Baptist Church because we get to go to heaven? And I was like, hmm? Because we are Baptist, we get to go to heaven and we are the chosen.

25:09And I was like, so you're telling me Muslims, they, they, and Hindu, like all these people, they don't know they're all going to hell. We as Christians get to go to heaven. And I was like, I don't, I don't, I don't know if I believe that, like I get to be an asshole all week long, but because my parents make me come to church on Sunday, I'm better than people that bow towards Mecca multiple times a day and like live stringent religious lifestyles and I am the lucky one. I don't, I didn't make sense to me, but luckily my dad and, and mom were very realist people. Like I mean, I think that they really wanted to instill kind of the wisdom of teachings of religion. My dad also was very much a, I like the Rolling Stones and the doors and the Beatles and like he, you know, never forced it down our throats, but was always very gully, like in a good way. He was a great role model for that. So I mean, I drifted away from the organized church, but still had a base of, oh, Proverbs are really good.

26:11There's a lot of wisdom around the Bible. Do I believe Noah built an ark and put to a very animal on it and the world flooded and do I believe that? I think it's an interesting story. Sure. I don't know. I would, I'd be cool to believe that, but no, I bet now I had a foundation. So it was easy for me. It was an easy transition for me to kind of go. And I had this massive God moment in my moment. I decided to stop drinking. So it made it all easier. Okay. Good stuff. I wanted to say, if you're listening to this and you're like, what is a sponsor? You hear the term sponsor, like how is a sponsor? Tell us in your view, like what, what, like for the layman who just hears the word sponsor or like, what does that mean? For me, a sponsor is, you know, just like I mentioned earlier with, with my, my sponsor now said your OG sponsor, my OG sponsor. Okay. Yeah. We'll, we'll start with that guy, man. He's just, he's such a great dude. I mean, they're still in contact. But you don't have to tell the story about the sponsors.

27:12Like what is, people, I think they hear that and they go, what is a sponsor? Like is it, do you, does somebody pay you? Like how, what is this? Like I have sponsors on the show. It's a completely different thing. It is. It's very, it's very much a close relationship. The best way to sum up what a sponsor is, is someone in recovery who has what you want. You see something in them that you want and they become your guide in sobriety and recovery. They're the person you call when you feel like you're spinning out of control. Every day. Yeah. Oh God. Absolutely. Or, you know, when you're struggling with some, or if the urge to, to pick up and use or drink strikes, like that is like the first person to hop on the phone with. There's someone who is further down the road than you are who can help guide you along the path in recovery. So there are support system for, you meet somebody in the group who has some time, they've worked all the steps and then they help you work the steps. Exactly. So if you're, if you're curious or want to be sober, you're scared and you don't know how to do it.

28:17Like when you go to these meetings, you go in and you, you meet a ton of people who don't give a fuck what you've done or who you are. If you're the president or if you're whatever, like we had this actor in the meeting the other day and I was like, that's pretty cool. Like I don't, I don't know. Like I'm not going to say a word to you or anything about it. Doesn't matter. It's my favorite place to be because nobody cares if I'm their boss or whatever. Exactly. I'm just Brandon and I'm an alcoholic and everybody there is there to support me and staying sober. And so you find a sponsor and that's the guy that's like, Hey, I called this, this is my personal guide through this journey that is invested in you and wants to help you. And how much does sponsors cost? Not a dime. I think that's the thing is like, you're like, I don't have, I can't afford to get it. Sponsors are free. I mean, these are people that just want the 12th step is go spread the message and help other people. So anyway, I wanted to clarify that if you're listening to this going, I don't know what I just as a little context clue, this is what a sponsor is, is what they do. If we reference our sponsor, this is a person that's very close to us and sometimes you move away from a sponsor and you have an original sponsor.

29:24They move to different states and like, I'm going to find it. I let my, I fired my first sponsor because I just wasn't vibe and feel comfortable calling. And then I got a new sponsor and then my old sponsor became like a really good friend of mine. And now I'm back with that sponsor. It's just, it's just a thing anyhow. So thank you for elaborating on kind of the God thing. And I jumped over your entire drinking career because you quit the church, you and your wife are in that car and you're like, I don't want to do this again. When did you decide that you were going to start drinking? Like, what did, what, how did that happen? So 30, I mean, damn, yeah. You know, so we moved to Atlanta and I attended culinary school there. And I just, I really, I finally, for the, I remember the first time I walked into a professional kitchen as a green line cook who brand new knives that had never so much as cut a carrot. And I stepped into that kitchen and just somehow I just knew this is where I belong.

30:26Like I have finally found my place. Like this is, this is it. This is fucking amazing. I'm a lifer. Here we go. Yeah. I love everything. I love the frenetic pace, the loud noises, the smells, the sites, the, the given each other shit on the line and like, this is really cool, man. You're a pirate. It's like a pirate ship. Pirates are we misfits, heathens and ne'er-do-wells all it's 100%. Yeah. And they, the beautiful thing about the kitchen environment that really spoke to me is just like you were talking about being in the rooms and going to meetings, thinking the same thing just now in a kitchen, nobody gives a shit. What's your last name is, what race you are, what church you go, nobody get all that fucking matters is can you do the job? And if you can, you've got friends for life in a kitchen. Well, so you're going there. You're going into battle. Yeah. When you go through a busy night back there, these are your comrades. Yes. It's it's brother, brothers and sisters in arms. And it's just, there's a camaraderie in the kitchen. Unlike any I've ever experienced anywhere else.

31:28And as I fell more and more deeply in love with being in food, it's customary to go get a drink after a meal. And you're still for me, I was struggling to connect with other people. I'd so desperately wanted to make connections and to build friendships, but I didn't know how. And I felt like I don't, I didn't know how to, what to say. I didn't know how to start a conversation. I didn't know how to engage with people. And I remember, you know, after class one day in culinary school, some friends and I went out to a local little pub there in Atlanta and everybody's ordering beers and I'm sitting there sipping on a sweet tea cause well, that's what I drank my whole damn life. And one of my buddies is like, you don't want a beer? I'm like, I don't, I'd never drank. I don't, I don't know what I like. And we just do this deep dive into my palate. Like what kind of foods do I like? What flavor profiles? And he's like, I'm going to order you a beer.

32:30And he comes back with a Guinness and I take a sip of your first beer. First beer was a Guinness. Damn. Yeah. Right out of the gate, man. We're done. We're jumping into the dark stuff. And I took a sip and I'm like, damn, this is actually pretty good. Like all the other beers I've ever seen or smelled just kind of smelled like piss and like unappealing to me. This is really good. Like Malty and chocolate notes and coffee going on. And there's like, oh man, this is really, I like this. And by the not overly carbonated, like you can drink it. It's really smooth. They're like rich, smooth, you know, everything about it. I'm like, this is great. I just found that they make an NA Guinness in my life. It's gotta find that it tastes just like, it's amazing. That's incredible. Had the first one a couple of weeks ago and I was like, holy shit. I just, I know those moments where I was like, almost started crying. I was so happy. Oh yeah. Like, oh, you forgot what I get. I can drink a Guinness now and I'm so happy.

33:30Anyway, so you're at the bar and you have your first Guinness. I finished it. And I realized what, by the time I had finished it, that I suddenly, I was, I was engaging with people and I'm like striking up conversation and it unlocked this, it just, it opened up the world to me. Like I'm suddenly like, I'm cracking jokes and people are laughing at what I've got to say, like this is, this feels amazing. Let me have another one. Uh, and it stayed at a pretty even keel for, for a while. Um, I was always, you know, usually able to, to, you know, hit that nice mellow buzz and then just maintain there out and about, um, but I experienced some, some really deep emotional pain a few years after that and just the sense of just overwhelming guilt and shame.

34:32And so many things just started kind of piling up. What was the deep emotional pain? You don't want to say it's fine. No, it's just, yeah, I had, I had gone out of state to do an internship and. I, there was a line that I didn't cross, but I came too close for comfort. Um, and, and became emotionally involved with someone I worked at worked with while I was still married. And the, the guilt of that just was tearing me apart. And, you know, because I had this incredible, loving, wonderful life at home supporting me beginning my career. And I developed this entirely inappropriate relationship with someone who also worked at the restaurant that I was doing my internship in. And, you know, while a physical line never got crossed, the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was an emotional affair.

35:35There's, there's no two ways about it. Yeah. The guilt of that just was tearing me apart. And the, I just had this flash of inspiration of like, well, that, you know, I drink and it helps me engage with people and be more social. Maybe it'll take away the shame that I'm feeling and I'll be damned. It did. But it probably wasn't, you didn't play, didn't think about it that much. It probably just happened. Yeah. Oh yeah. Going back, looking at it now you can, but in the moment you weren't like, yeah, wow, I really feel all this pain and anguish. I didn't know what I was feeling. I wonder if I can drink. Like you just know that looking back on it now, you can say that, right? Exactly. It's absolutely hindsight that I'm able to label those emotions and talk about it. In the moment I felt shitty and didn't want to feel shitty anymore. And I, I couldn't even name the things that I was feeling. I just knew I didn't like it and I wanted it to stop. And now you had this new tool and I had a tool. Yeah.

36:35I had some medicine to ease the pain. And as I've heard it said in the rooms and I say it myself often, it worked until it didn't until it, you know, and the, the same guy that I, I mentioned earlier from my own group. You know, he's got another, he was the first person to ever tell me that he was glad I drank. And I was kind of dumbfounded by that because I was kind of sharing with him some of my story, like I am right now. And, you know, I told him, like, I didn't like how I felt. So I drank until I didn't feel anything. And he just said, I'm so glad you did. And I was, I was stunned. I didn't know what to say to that. And after a few seconds of stunned silence, he's like, because if you hadn't, you probably would have just blown your brains out. And I just, I was like, you know what? You're right. Like it, it worked until it didn't.

37:36And, you know, several years went by, you know, I recommitted to, to being, you know, faithful and good in my marriage and everything, my career started going really well. And then I made one of the worst decisions I've ever made in my entire life. And I took a job for the paycheck for the paycheck. Yep. I took a job at a bakery, primarily because I'd always loved baking bread. I found that out very quickly in my culinary career and made the switch from working the line in a kitchen to, you know, pastry chef and bread baker. That's just where my passion had always been. It just took me a minute to find that. So I took a job as a bread baker and loved it. And then the opportunity to step up at that bakery and take on more responsibility came with a very attractive price tag. And I was like, I've never made this much money in my life.

38:37Hell yeah, I'll take the job. And that was the sole reason I took the position. And it was the dumbest thing I promised myself after the fallout of that, that I would never again take a job just because of the money. Because I allowed my dedication to making that work become the most important thing in my life. Every all of my relationships, my marriage, my friends and family, I missed birthdays and weddings and funerals and family get togethers because work was more important. And that mentality cost me everything. Wow, that's powerful what you just now said. To have that realization. I think that the people right now that are listening that are going, Holy shit, that's me.

39:38I did that. And I'm in the middle of that right now. What'd you do? I fucking drank. I again turned to what had worked for so long before. And it was drinking at this time. We started off with a Guinness. Oh, yeah, it started. What are we drinking now? Are we at bourbon yet? I never really got into bourbon that much. It was never my thing. We had vodka now. I was, the joke that I like to make is I'm simultaneously 12 years old and 90. My liquor of choice was always scotch. I loved a really good single malt highland scotch. That was my jam. And it's funny to look back at it because the fact that I preferred nice expensive scotch and craft high gravity chewy dark beers is kind of like, well, I don't have a problem because I'm not like hiding in the bathroom drinking mouthwash.

40:39Like when I drink, I'm drinking good shit. I'm drinking good shit. I'm paying good money. So like, that's not, that's not what an alcoholic does. Part of my rationalization for that. I work also it's an addiction how much I work and I love working. Working is almost an escape to me. I work all the time. That's just what I do. And I thought since I work so much and I'm not happy, but I'm working and I'm making a lot of money, I can buy expensive wine and I can buy expensive bourbon. And that was justification for me because well, I'm unhappy, but I'm making all this money and I'm drinking really good shit. So it's not a problem. I can afford it, but it was like, not really working for you, buddy. Well, it just, yeah. So, yeah, I relate to everything that you just said, especially the like work being an escape.

41:40And that's the thing that I really, I began to realize that work was becoming too important. But rather than stop and reassess and make some serious life changes, I doubled down because the shame and the guilt of knowing my marriage has fallen apart. I'm losing relationships with people I love and I care about. Rather than feel that shame or address that shame or talk to someone about it. I internalized it, pushed it way, way down and just took on more work. Made myself more busy, became more committed to the job. And work was the very thing that was becoming the problem was also in my fucked up way of thinking, my solution. If I just work harder, then everything will be okay. And if I'm working, I don't have time to think about what working like this is going to cost me. And yeah, that went really well.

42:44That worked out great. As we like to ask in the rooms, how's that working for you? Yeah. It didn't. And everything just crashed and burned around me. That job and that phase of my career is the only time in my entire life that I have walked off a job. I remember the last day at that bakery and it doesn't even exist anymore. The last day at that bakery, I was exhausted. I had put in a couple of hundred hour weeks. I was fucking miserable. And, you know, my boss came walking in to the production floor that day and, you know, very professional, politely, good morning. How are you today? And something in me just snapped. And I'm not proud of how I answered.

43:48It's something I carried a lot of shame about for a long time, but the only way through shame is to speak into it and talk about the things that I'm ashamed of. I looked at her and I said, the best thing you can do right now is to turn around and walk the fuck away from me. And she just said, okay. And she turned around and walked off and I finished up that shift and I walked into my office and I pulled my apron off over my head and I sat my keys on top of my apron, my keys to the building. And it just, it felt like something in me just broke. Like I just felt completely destroyed. And I knew that I wasn't coming back and I didn't make a big spectacle. I didn't flip shit and throw, you know, flip tables and throw trash cans around. I just walked out and left. And about a week later, the bakery ended up closing and going out of business.

44:54And I really carried a lot of shame about that for a long time. Do you feel like it was your fault that it closed? Oh, I absolutely did. At the time, so much of my identity was wrapped up in being a successful baker and the fact that that bakery went out of business, I felt personally responsible for that. And at the time, and I carried a lot of shame around that for a long time. And it's really taken a lot of very intense work with an extremely gifted and very kind therapist to process that and realize the other external factors that were going on that would have happened anyway. Again, I am not proud of how I handled it, the decision that I made. But I knew in that moment that if I kept going, I was going to kill myself.

45:56How did you respond? You took your keys, set them on top of your apron. Was that the moment? Was that like a, was that your rock bottom? I mean, that wasn't, I mean, that was just. Oh, that was just, that was, that was looking over the ledge to rock bottom. And I did better for a little while. I got a job at a grocery store working in their bakery and just an hourly bread baker, clock in, make bread for eight hours, go home. And everything was okay for a while. I felt better. I felt, I felt like I was in a better place and. Probably not as much money, but good God, no. But hey, I'm not working 100 hour a week. Exactly. 40 hours. I got all this extra time. Exactly. I can have a life now. But that, that false sense of security that I had at the time is kind of what started pushing me back into drinking heavily.

46:57And again, the shame around it's my fault that this closed, that this bakery went under and all these people lost their jobs. Like I'm, I did that. It's all my fault. And it became such a great source of shame for me. Well, it's, and I think it's this book from Brene Brown called the Atlas of the Heart. I referenced it like two or 3000 times on this podcast, but she talks about shame. And she says, shame is I'm bad and guilt is I am good, but I did something bad. Right. And I think in the active moment, you think I did that I'm bad. I am a bad person. Absolutely. And that's where shame comes from. And I think that self-talk in that moment is a, hey, I'm a good person, but I made a bad decision. Right. I made a bad decision and I'm going to own that and we're going to move past it. But like, if you're out there listening, you're like, I keep talking about shame. Like that shame is self-talk where you're telling yourself that I, you're identifying as something that is bad or something that is not okay.

48:06And that's who you are in your core. And I think a lot of people are good people. We're good people. You're a good person. But sometimes we make bad decisions or we do something that isn't conducive to helping the community or whatever it might be. And those things are okay. That's where we learn to work past those decisions and that's where we learn from them. And then we grow. Shame is, oh, I'm such a terrible person. I can't believe I did that. I am so horrible. And it's tough when you have kids. Do you have kids? No. Because as kids, you hear your seven-year-old say, I'm sorry, I'm bad. You're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you are not bad. You are so good. But I want to talk about the decision you made. There's those little moments where shame is so prevalent in the hospitality community. Yes. Because if you're sick, I'm sick. I really don't feel well. Get your shift covered. Get your ass in here. And it's like, but I'm sick. And I'm going to the doctor like, I don't give a fuck. You need to be here. Tables aren't going to wait themselves. And it's like, I don't have another pantry cook.

49:08Who's going to make salad stay? And you almost get shamed into doing your job. Every day, shame is so prevalent in our industry. And it's like, guys, we've got to stop this shit. We've got to change that conversation. We've got to change that conversation. Because we talk about mental health, and we talk about alcoholism in our industry. And that's where a lot of it stems from. I think you just touched on a major part of people walking out of the restaurant feeling like, I'm bad. I didn't. I wasn't going to show up to work today. And then I came to work, and I made good money. But I feel I'm so bad because I wanted to call out. If you're sick, you need to get better. That's a human thing. And us as leaders in the industry, I think it's like, I love having these conversations on this podcast. Because I hope somebody's listening and they go, oh, fuck, I do that all the time. And it's not that you're bad for doing that. This is how we grow. We learn that, oh, shit, I need to stop doing that.

50:10I need to stop shaming people into doing their job and coaching people appropriately. Sorry, I got the little tangent there. Because you mentioned shame a few times, and I felt that. I still feel it. I mean, I'm not immune to shame. I feel it all the time. But it's how I talk to myself when I feel it that has changed. Exactly. OK, so let's get back to it. I have these little diatribes. I'm sorry. Oh, no, I do the same thing. My mom calls it chasing the rabbit trail. And sometimes if she feels as though someone has gone a little further off course conversationally, she'll just shoot the rabbit. And I have to tell myself that, all right, Jamie, shoot the rabbit, get to the point. Mike, we're telling Jamie's story, Brandon. Shut the fuck up. I definitely agree with everything that you just said, especially about it being on us as managers, as leaders in the hospitality industry to change the culture and change the conversation around those kinds of things.

51:14I think what this talked about so much, you know, it's talked about so much just in this industry. And it's like, guys, magically, it's not going to go away because we say, because we acknowledge that it's here doesn't mean that it ends. And I think that what you just touched upon was a major factor in mental health and alcoholism in this industry. And as leaders, we have the change. We can stop treating people that we can stop expecting people to do things and then shame them for it, then make them feel like they're bad. And it just drives me crazy. And hopefully, you know, somebody hears it and says, oh, I do that. Yeah. And we, a lot of us do. I do it today. I have to catch myself and go, hey, I didn't mean that in this manner. I want to tell you, like, I value you and what you do. I didn't mean to make, I'm not trying to guilt trip you. I'm not trying to do that. Do what you need to do. You know, and I find myself following up with people all the time going, ah, I was laying in bed last night thinking about our interaction yesterday. And I don't think I handled that the right way.

52:15And I have enough humility to go back and have that conversation and the look in people's eyes and they go, what, really? Are you serious right now? Like, yeah, I just I value you. And like, oh, shit, like, that's amazing. Thank you. That means so much to me. And it's like, I think I obsessed about that all day yesterday. I'm like, I'm so sorry you spent a minute thinking about it. Yeah, like that wasn't my intention. Anyhow, you're at the bakery at the grocery store. You get really into drinking because you had this self lulled into sense of security or I don't know what insecurity, whatever it might be. You said you're on the ledge looking down at that rock bottom. And I, you know, I had had a family member of mine ask me one time and I remember I was on the phone and well, as we say, well in my cups at this time on this, on this phone call with my family member. And I remember her asking me, she's like, baby, do you think you might have a problem?

53:17I was like, what? No, no, I don't have a problem. You got a problem. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm no, if I, it's not, yeah, I'm not like drinking mouthwash and like going and getting, you know, plastic jugs of liquor. Drinking Vodka at seven o'clock in the morning to get up. Yeah, exactly. Like, I don't have my coffee. Yeah. Nevermind the fact that, you know, I would start my day with a 20 ounce tumbler that was like mostly Coke and a little splash of rum. But then as the day went on, it went from being rum and Coke to rum and Coke. Yeah, nevermind. I still didn't have a problem. Um, but it, you know, just finally everything came to a head and I literally lost everything in very spectacular public fashion.

54:20I was out with friends at, at, you know, my, at the time, my favorite dive bar, knocking them back, playing a drinking game with buddies. And were you in Nashville? Oh yeah. This was here in Nashville. Okay. And it all just fell apart. And I remember leaving that bar knowing that my life as I knew it was over, like my marriage was gone. I had let everybody and anybody in my life that mattered to me down. I felt like a failure, a disappointment, a piece of shit, just an utter garbage human being. And I left and I went around the corner to another liquor store. And again, you know, practicing that whole like, well, I'm buying good shit, not, you know, garbage made myself this really nice little six pack of all these different high gravity.

55:23At this point, I had stopped buying the style of beer that I liked to drink and was buying beers solely based on their ABV. Like what has, I was doing that too. Yeah. Like what, what has the most punch for the money? You know, let's go that way with it. And I, again, I bought like bearded irises. I love the triple IPAs that were like 7.9% of these kinds of things. And I was like, no, I'm drinking craft beer. Exactly. Six of them. Like my beer is like $40 a night for six pack. I'm drinking, you know, Belgian strong, dark ales that are, you can't even shine a light through that poor like molasses and are like 12 and 14%. There you go. And they come in the bombers with the cork, with the cage on it and everything. This isn't a problem, you know, popping two or three of those at a time. Like that's not fucking normal. Come on. Oh, it's normal to me. I'm tracking you a hundred percent. I'm like, well, doesn't everybody do that? Well, you mean you don't do this every night. Yeah. Oh, man.

56:23I'm trying to think of the, there was like a blue, a Chimay. I love the Chimay blue and the white and the red. Oh yeah. I was about the white. Yeah. That was always my joke. People go, do you go to Titans games? I'm like, no, because I got to pay $13. I could drink Chimay at home for the same price as Bud Light at a game. And I watched the game in HD, my own bathroom, drinking so much of the stuff. Exactly. I identify with everything you just said. So you're at the liquor store. You're buying all these, the six pack of specialty beers have totally been there. And purchasing solely based on ABV. And again, at that point of I'm not drinking to enjoy the taste of these beers and to appreciate the craft of the master artisans who created these beautiful beverages. Yeah. No, fuck those guys. I don't want to feel how I'm feeling. And I don't even know how I got home. I really don't. I woke up the next morning, parked on the street, a couple of houses down from where I lived at the time, where the house that my ex-wife and I had bought and had no recollection of how I got there.

57:35Like none whatsoever. It is purely, that's one of those moments where I may not know exactly what name it might want to go by, but there's something out there looking out for me, something someone out there in the universe is looking out for me that I should not. I don't know how I got safely home and didn't hurt myself or God forbid someone else. And I pulled up the street, went inside and just passed the fuck out. And I came to and previously living in Atlanta, I had met a guy and he started out as my guitar teacher and we just hit it off and became buddies. And like, we're still in regular contact to this day. His name is Hank. He told me several times that I'm welcome to call him by name in, you know, in talking about this kind of stuff. And I remember as Hank and I started developing a friendship, one day we're just hanging out and shooting the shit after a guitar lesson.

58:37I'm like, well, let's go get a beer, man. And he was like, I don't, I don't drink. I'm like, oh, you don't, you don't like beer. Well, that's fine. Let me buy you a couple of fingers of scotch or some Jack or, you know, whatever. He's like, no, man, I'm, I'm an alcoholic. And I didn't have a full idea of what that actually meant. I was like, well, in my mind, I'm like, oh, you're an alcoholic. Well, that means you're, you're, you're broken. You're broken. Something's wrong with you. And as, as Hank and I got to know each other more and he shared more of his story with me, I could not reconcile the person in the story with the person telling the story. It just, I was baffled by Hank telling me his story. And like the Hank that I knew was not the Hank in the stories he was telling me. And I remembered that when I woke up that next morning and I reached out to Hank and I shot him a text and I was like, Hank, I can't do this anymore. Can you help me? And he, we talked for a while about, you know, the program and getting into getting into recovery.

59:42And he helped me find a meeting that would eventually go on to be, be my first home group. And Hank was the one that threw me the lifeline when I was at rock bottom and had literally lost everything. Like I said, my, my, my bottom was very public. Like I lost, I lost my marriage. I lost my home. I had, I had literally nothing and was starting my life out with less than zero. And Hank was the one that threw me the lifeline and told me there's a better way. It doesn't have to be like this. It can get better. And I will forever be grateful for Hank taking that call back in 2018. What was your feeling walking into your first meeting? Oh God, I was scared to death. I had no idea. All I knew about your meetings was what I'd seen on TV. If I'm so and so and I'm an alcohol. These dark rooms that are these incandescent lights that you're just like, there's like fly.

01:00:46There's people smoking and it's like, my name's John. I'm an alcoholic. You're like, oh shit. Like this is, this is scary. The perception of what an AA meeting looks like on TV versus reality. Yeah. What do you think? It's, it's utter bullshit because what, what I saw on TV was a bunch of depressed, broken, scared people. As I walked down the hall to walk into my first meeting, I heard people laughing and cutting up and shooting the shit with each other. And I'm like, I'm gotta be in the wrong place. And I, I peeked around the corner and kind of poked my head into the room, like looked around and there was a guy sitting in the corner who looked up when he saw me stick my head in and he goes, you look like a deer caught in the headlights and you're scared to death. And I just, I just froze. And he's like, you're in the right place. Come on in. I was like, this is not at all what I expected. And what I found and still find in meetings is not depressed, scared people.

01:01:56What I find is acceptance and honesty and people who, I found people who were willing and who were able to love me right where I was at when I could not love myself. These people love me and it's still, I still get emotional talking about that. There's the same with you right here. I found people who were able to love me when I could not love myself. And that is what I find in meetings today. That's why I still regularly go. I've got a home group. I've got people that I'm plugged into because when shit gets screwy and I'm squirrely and I can't figure something out, I can make a phone call. I can step into a room and I can be with people who go, yeah, me too. You have new tools. Yeah. Your tool is an alcohol. Now you have a support group. And I'll never forget that first time walking in, I did the classic. I walked in head down and I was slinking across the back of the room.

01:02:57I was beyond scared. I thought like, I am giving up, like I am admitting defeat. I can't do this. I'm going to be the shame. I was feeling walking in. God, yeah. I walked to the back of the room and I grabbed the little pamphlets, which I've never seen anybody take a pamphlet before. But I walked in the back and I took some pamphlets and I sat in the back row in the back corner. And I started reading the AA pamphlet. And the guy walked up to me. He's like, you new here? Like, what gave that away? What was the first sign? The scared wide eye. I'm crying. First of all, is that okay? The fact that I'm crying. And he was like, dude, no. And he was wearing a Predator shirt. And I was like, do you like hockey? Yes. I'm like, I like hockey too. And it was immediate. And like, the dude just like gave me a hug and I lost it. I was like, I thought everybody in the world hated me. I think everybody in the world hated me. They're like, no, dude, we're here to help you. And it's like, holy shit. Like, you don't hate me? Like, wow.

01:03:58That acceptance of, dude, it doesn't matter who you are, what you've done. We go through these stories and you're like, I was at this rock bottom and it's like, but look at you today. Yeah. I mean, you look back on it like in your new life. How long have you been sober? Little over four years now. Sure. Four years. I mean, guy, what have the last four years been like for you? Honestly, the best four years of my life. Early, you know, we talk a lot about the pink cloud and early recovery because like there is that newfound sense of I can live a life free from the chains of this addiction. This is incredible and everything is new and shiny. And then it gets really painful for a while because suddenly all of the emotions and the shame, the guilt, all of this stuff. Yeah. Everything you've been numbing. They're there now and there is no numbing. We have to confront these things and do this work.

01:05:00But something I like to say often about recovery and sobriety is it's not always easy, but it is always worth it. Always worth it. And now, as you mentioned, I'm the production manager at Bakery by Frothy Monkey and it's been the most fulfilling and the best career choice I've ever made in my entire life. Just a great company, a great culture, like full support from the top down for recovery and sobriety. And there's not a doubt in my mind that I would not have that without recovery and without sobriety. I have this incredible network of friends and family who are so supportive of sobriety and of recovery who have cheered me on at every step of the way and supported me and encouraged me. I have a wonderful relationship that I never even saw coming that has just, and all of these incredible things that I have today, I can trace a straight line right back to getting sober and choosing to do the recovery work and to get into therapy and to really dig in and heal a lot of old wounds and address trauma and really do the things I need to do to take care of myself.

01:06:24And it's honestly, it's a, if you had told me five years ago that I would be who I am today and have the life that I have right now, I would have called you a fucking liar. Like you're full of shit. There's no way that my life can't look like that. But it does, it does, and it's pretty fucking great. It is, it's, you know what, clarity, having a clear head and the tools that you learn and how to deal with emotions, feeling emotions. I was so afraid of feeling emotions and now like I'm, I don't know, it's amazing. I love meeting somebody who tells me they're an alcoholic. It's like an immediate hug. You're like, like we're in the club. Well, I mean, it's not like there's like a club but it's like, you know that this person is authentic and true. And on the, you get these little chips every year and it says on the chip to thine own self be true, right?

01:07:24And it's a, this person lives with a ridiculous amount of personal accountability and honesty. And I love connecting like that. That's just that thing. There's so much freedom in that honesty. So we've talked about our industry. We've talked about, you know, kind of the shame and the alcoholism and mental health. Tell me about Ben's friends. I'm really excited about this. Yeah, let's get into it. And so Ben's friends is and something we're very clear about saying is Ben's friends is not a replacement for treatment or for therapy or traditional recovery. We like to think of ourselves as a bridge to those things. So Ben's friends was started several years ago in Charleston, South Carolina by Mickey Baxter and Steve Palmer. And they are multiple decades veterans of the hospitality industry. And they lost a very dear friend of theirs to addiction. His name was Ben Murray.

01:08:26He was a very talented, well-respected chef. And he lost the battle with addiction and tragically took his own life. And they were devastated by this as anyone would be to lose someone close. And they're like, this happens too much in our industry. Something's got to change. And not long after that, at a very prominent food festival, the after party for the talent at this festival got out of hand and several people were lost to overdoses and alcohol poisoning. And that was kind of the this is way too normal in our industry. It is entirely too normalized. And people who need help are afraid to ask for help because it's such a prevalent celebrated part of our culture that we work hard, we party hard. And they decided to form this organization and named it in honor of their friend Ben.

01:09:30It's called Ben's Friends. And it is a community of cooks, chefs, bartenders, bread bakers, restaurant managers, waiters, waitress. It's all of these people who work in the industry who have found sobriety and recovery. And it's there for us to support one another and to be open about our sobriety and to normalize the conversation around addiction issues and mental health issues so that people know they have a safe place to go to talk about these things. Because in our industry, substance abuse is, it's not only common, it's normalized. Like it's just what we do. That's why you got into it. Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I contend that during shifts, there's trauma. Oh, God, yeah. I think that the way that guests treat servers, I think the way that chefs treat line cooks, and just the sheer ups and downs.

01:10:35You hear you are, here you are. I'm cutting basil, doing my thing, and then all of a sudden, hair on fire, I got 30 tickets. That high that you get from that, and then you come down afterwards, and I got to clean the whole kitchen, and then you're done. It's like, I'm exhausted. I'm emotionally spent. Let's go drink. Exactly. That's a common. I think there's so much trauma in our industry because of the highs and lows every single day. It's an insane roller coaster. It's a roller coaster. I do too, but the common prescription to deal with the trauma that you just experienced throughout a really busy shift. I mean, God, look at downtown. Look at the people working in those honky tonks. Oh, God, yeah. Until four o'clock in the morning, the amount of volume that they're doing, and you're like, how do you not? Right. I mean, I don't. One of my dearest friends is a bartender at a very prominent music venue here in town. When they relate stories of their experiences with customers and some of the things that customers have said to them, make my blood boil.

01:11:41Of course, when you're done having to deal with rooms full of jerks, you want that to go away. Like you have earned a drink. That's a thing. You, I earned this. So Finn's friends is meeting on Mondays at 11 a.m. Correct. At the Oak Steakhouse. That's it. It's basically at the bottom of the Westin Hotel downtown. And this is a place where people can go and share some of this stuff, right? I mean, this is a place for hospitality industry people who don't drink, want to quit drinking, are people that just want to have solidarity together. Who's allowed to come to this thing? Anybody who wants to walk through that door is welcome. It's my favorite, the third tradition of AA. And this is my first experience. I looked at, I looked at, there's a, there's an app called The Meeting Guide. I have it on my phone. It's the most amazing thing, right? And you download The Meeting Guide and anywhere you are that uses location services, it'll find the closest meeting to you at the closest time.

01:12:42And then you can scroll up. You're like, I need to find a meeting at six o'clock that's close to me. You scroll up and you find six o'clock, 1.2 miles away, there's a meeting. It's excellent. But there's a meeting that says closed meetings and then there's open meetings. There's women-only meetings, men-only meetings, newcomer meetings, all these different meetings. And I was like, I don't, what's a closed meeting? I want to go, I don't want to go to a closed meeting. And the third tradition of Alcoholics Anonymous says, anybody is welcome to attend any meeting if you have a desire to quit drinking. Yeah, that's it. That's the only thing you have to have to be a member. That's the only requirement for membership is a desire to quit drinking. Yeah, it doesn't say you got to be sober. You got to want to be. You got to want to quit. You got to want to quit. And you know, a lot of people come because they're told to come or they get a DUI and they have to go. They don't necessarily have the desire to quit. Right. They're being, they're voluntold to go. Exactly, they were persuaded to volunteer. I had the guy, I called the number and I said, I don't know which meeting to go to. He goes, do you have a desire to quit drinking? And I go, more than you know.

01:13:43He goes, then you're welcome to any meeting. And I just started crying. I was like, okay, so they'll let me go. I thought everybody in the world hated me. I didn't think I could even do it. So anybody's welcome to come to this. 11 o'clock at Oak Steakhouse. You're the co-chair. So you're there every week. My Mondays are hell. But I'm going to rearrange my Mondays to start going because I think it's amazing and I've been looking forward to this being here for a really long time. I think it's needed. And I'm really excited that you stepped up and did this. It really felt like, again, to use program language, the next right thing. I've heard about Ben's Friends in early 2020 before the world turned upside down and wanted to make that connection. And then the world turned upside down and it very quickly got put on the back burner. But earlier this year, it came back up.

01:14:43I was like, I need to reach out to them and see about getting something kicked off here in Nashville because it's in 20 plus cities and Nashville really needs this. We've got a booming hospitality industry, new restaurants and hotels are springing up left and right. And I know I'm not the only one. And I just reached out to the general inquiry email and within hours, I heard back from one of the co-founders of Ben's Friends like, man, we've been wanting to get in Nashville for a while. We've got two other people there in town. Like, let's all get connected. Let's hop on a Zoom call and make this thing a reality. And it was incredible how it came together and how the Nashville community has really shown up to support this organization and this community. Because I know for me, I've been in this industry for almost 15 years now and I love it. But in early recovery, I really struggled with like, I know I don't want to drink again.

01:15:48My recovery and my sobriety is the most important thing in my life. Can I stay in this industry that is so rife with substance abuse and substance use? Can I stay sober and continue doing something I deeply love with all my heart? And I very nearly left the industry because I didn't think I could do it. That's tough. And I'm so glad that I'm glad that I didn't and I'm so grateful for the culture and the environment where I currently work because it is a very open and encouraging and accepting environment. I mean, it's really overwhelming how much support I've gotten. But I knew I couldn't be the only one who struggled with that. And lo and behold, there's an organization that fits the bill. There's a community of like-minded hospitality professionals who have found sobriety and want to, like we've talked about 12th step and 12th tradition is carrying that message to those who still suffer.

01:16:54And it was just, it was a light bulb moment for me. Like, this is it for me. Like, this is how I get to bring that message to those who still suffer and let people know there is a better way. And yes, you can be sober and still be in this incredible industry with this roller coaster of emotions that we experience and this rewarding sense of accomplishment that we get to feel as people who take care of others. You can still have this fulfilling amazing career in this beautiful industry and do it sober because here we are doing it. That's pretty fucking cool. Cool. Typically, I do a Gordon food service final thought. This episode's gonna, there's not gonna, it's gonna be brought to you by course and fire. We're not gonna do commercials. We're just gonna go straight through this episode. I'm gonna use that as the final thought. I thought that was amazing what you just now said. I love that you're doing the Ben's Friends things and I thank you so much. Like from the bottom of my heart, I can't tell you how much it means to me that you would come in here and tell your story.

01:17:59I mean, there's the vulnerability in that and coming in and talking about all of these very personal things on a very public channel is brave. It's hard to do and I can't tell you how much it means to me and hopefully the community of people out there. It's been an honor having you here and I can't wait to, I'm gonna have you come back. We'll talk about Bakery by Frothy Monkey. If you're a restaurant and you know, we support Sharpies as one of our sponsors here. We love them but you guys also serve restaurants and you guys do a fantastic job. You guys do a lot of really cool stuff over there. How would people get a hold of you if they want to learn more about Frothy Monkey or any of those things is there? So the easiest thing to do is just to hop on the website frothymonkey.com slash bakery and you can see our entire wholesale menu. You can see what restaurants are using us and then if you wanna inquire about us providing to you, just email orders at frothymonkeybakery.com and we'll get you taken care of.

01:19:02Awesome. Jamie, this was a lot of fun. Thank you so much for joining us today and we'll check back with you soon. Hopefully we'll see you guys at the Ben's Friends meeting 11 a.m. at the Oak Steakhouse. On Mondays. Oh, quick note on that. Also, you know, we only do the meeting once a week in person but on the Ben's Friends website, benzfriendshope.org we have two meetings a day that are online Zoom meetings and you can call into those and they are fantastic. Okay, excellent. I like that. Good stuff. Thank you so much. All right, we'll see you soon. Big thank you to Jamie Pruitt for joining us on the show and for telling your story. I think that when I had the idea to start talking to people in this industry, this is exactly what I wanted to do and starting this podcast, these are the type of conversations that I kind of dreamed that I would be having and the connection that I get to have with so many amazing people is just truly an honor for me and I just want to say thank you guys for listening.

01:20:04Thank you for sharing your comments. Thank you for everything. I mean, this is truly a blessing. So have a wonderful week ahead. We're gonna be back with you next week with Alyssa Gangeri and we are super excited to share that episode. So stay tuned and thank you for listening. Have a wonderful, wonderful week. Hope you guys are being safe. Love you guys. Bye.