Jason Laiacona

00:00I am so excited today to introduce all of y'all to a brand new linen option here in Nashville. Ladies and gentlemen, introducing Tri-Tex Services. They opened in 1989 as an independently owned and operated textile linen service company serving Tennessee, Alabama, and Georgia. Nashville, Chattanooga, and Knoxville are their key markets that they are in. That is what is in luck for you, because they service multiple industries, including food and beverage, medical and industrial. They supply a wide variety of products. We got restroom supplies, all types of mats, matting, wet mops, dust mops, towels, aprons, uniforms, table linens, first aid, just to name a few. I mean, their goal at Tri-Tex Services is to combine customer service with a quality product at competitive pricing and exceed our customers' expectations every single day. That's not something you hear from a linen company. They're trying to exceed your expectations every day, and I love that.

01:01Their company's slogan is the difference is our service, because they take pride in customer service. They know that's what they're known for. So go to tritexservices.com and get a free quote right there in the center of the page. Click to get a free quote, or give them a call. 888-761-3238. It is springtime. That means we're gonna be hanging out on patios, we're going to brunches, and of course that means bravazzi. The hard Italian soda made right here in Nashville that is taking over brunch by storm. Yes, bravazzi is gluten-free. It's made with real fruit juice, cane sugar, and nothing artificial. This is great out of the can, over ice, or mixed in a cocktail, and you can get it on draft. This is distributed by best brands right here in Tennessee, and it has the perfect amount of sweetness crafted in the Italian tradition. This is a studio favorite. When we pass these out to guests in the studio, they love them. We sell them at Chagos, and everybody loves them over at Chagos.

02:04We are big fans of bravazzi, and this is the time of year where everybody wants a crisp, clean, Italian sparkling soda. These are also great for the boat. These are great for outdoor picnics. Get you some bravazzi wherever you find fine beverages. Enjoy responsibly. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City, and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. And welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host. We are powered by Gordon Food Service, and man, this episode today, I wanna say it's a fun one, because I had so much fun talking to Jason Iacona.

03:11He's the chef at Miele over off Charlotte Avenue, and he is the host of his very own podcast. I'm gonna give a disclaimer here. In this episode today, we use the F word a lot. There is a lot of times where we use the F word. I'm gonna start the podcast off and tell you we probably use the F word as a record how many times the F word is said, and I'm about to say it, so if there's anybody that shouldn't hear that, stop it now. But he has a podcast called Fuck You Depression, and it is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we talked a lot about that in this business and what it's like, and just kinda tells his story, and man, it's fascinating. I think this is just a really, I finished that conversation with him, and I just really connect. I thought it was so much vulnerability and openness by two men talking. It was kinda crazy, and I hope that you enjoy it. This episode is coming out, it is Friday, and this past week, we had the Tennessee Tasting with The Giving Kitchen, and The Giving Kitchen is an amazing organization that helps restaurant workers.

04:19That's what they do, they help restaurant workers. If the restaurant workers need help financially with their mortgage or anything because of an injury or an illness or something that's happened, The Giving Kitchen comes in and helps. If you want more information about The Giving Kitchen, please check them out at givingkitchen.org. But the Tennessee Tasting was out of control, so we had, I think there was 18 restaurants, but they had a tastemaker VIP downstairs when you first walked in, and we had Bastion, Josh Hobbiger from Bastion was there, and then we had Locust, Trevor was there for Locust, and then they had a table set up for the catbird seat, but it was Tip and Andy, so it was the new iteration of the first preview that we've got to have, and it was absolutely delicious, and I'll tell you that I talked to them, and they are totally down to come on the show and talk about what they're doing, and I'm really excited to do that, to have a first look into Tip and Andy, taking over, Tiffany and Andy, Chef Tiffany and Chef Andy, over at the new catbird seat in their new location, so that'll be a fun episode, stay tuned for that one, but the rest of the night was a lot of fun.

05:22We had an auction, I was the emcee for the event, kind of just Jen Heidinger Kendrick, who's one of the co-founders of The Giving Kitchen, just amazing up there, inspirational night, loved all the people that came out to support restaurant workers, it was really cool. We did an auction for you to be the host of Nashville Restaurant Radio for a day, and interview Andrew Zimmern, and we had two people bid it up, and we're gonna do two episodes, but both of those people live in Atlanta. We had to have people come from Atlanta to bid the biggest bids here in Nashville, it was a little disappointing, but I'm really excited, because we're gonna take our equipment on the road, and we're gonna go to Atlanta, and we're gonna record an episode with a bunch of cool Atlanta people, so if you're thinking about doing a road trip to Atlanta, hang tight, we are going to let you know where to eat, what to do, it is gonna be a good old time when we go to Atlanta to record these episodes. So it was a good night overall, raised a bunch of money, got to see Jason Ellis was in there, Jason Ellis from Super Source, him and his wife were there, Candice, and they were so amazing, and they bid and won a Laney Wilson guitar, and so they have three daughters, and they were like, dude, we gotta, maybe two or three daughters, but they got there for their daughter, and I thought that was so awesome, just them being there supporting, I looked around, I go, is there any other dish machine and chemical companies here supporting restaurant workers?

06:52I don't think so, so Jason Ellis, I just love you, man, it's so good to see you, and congratulations on the bidding, that was really cool. If you go to my stories on Instagram, you, not anymore, it's gone now, but you could have seen pictures, if you saw pictures of them wearing really cool, shiny necklaces, that's because they won a bid, and they got to win a guitar, so it's really neat. All right, we are getting back next week with Sarah Gavigan, and it's gonna be a fun special episode with Sarah Gavigan, we got a lot to talk about, and then again, coming up eventually, we're going to have this episode with Gloria Johnson, we're just giving it a little break. We had to postpone for a little bit, we're gonna be back on track very, very soon, very excited about that. So let's jump in, Jason Iacona, this guy is absolutely amazing, nice young man, and go check out his podcast, Fuck You, Depression. Super excited today to welcome in Jason Lye Iacona, he is the executive chef at Miele Restaurant, right off of Charlotte Pike, what's up, man?

07:57How are you? I am wonderful. Well, thanks for having me. Dude, I'm excited you're here. I'm really excited to be here, yeah. This is fun, this is nothing new to you. No, no, no, no, no, no. Because you have your own podcast. I do, yes, yeah. And you're in a band. I am as well. And you're an executive chef. Yeah, yeah, add that to the list, I guess. Already, we have a shit ton to talk about. We do, yeah. Anything else I'm missing, what are the big other things that you've got going on, anything else? I'm a cat lover. You're a cat lover? I do oil paintings as well. Really? I took that up a couple years ago, yeah. You look like you're in shape, too. Oh, shit, I ran my first marathon last year. You ran a marathon? Yeah, 40 years old, did my first marathon. Hell yeah, why? I mean, I was always kind of like a casual runner. And then, it was actually, I was in a bad car accident in 2011. Broke my back and my neck. Oh, no.

08:58This was falling on the 11th anniversary, the 11th. And I said, you know what, I'm gonna fucking run a marathon. And I had run the rock and roll marathon. I did a half marathon years ago. And at this point, I was running more. And I was like, you know what, I think I'm gonna go for the full. And I had signed up with less than three months. And it was kind of my kick in the ass. I signed up the anniversary date of my car accident. And I said, yeah, just fucking do it. And you did it? And I did. Was it just ridiculously hard? I can't imagine. It was, I mean, it was kind of whatever. I mean, it wasn't easy, but. It's running. Yeah, the training was kind of crazy because I mean, there were days where I'd run the distance of a half marathon just to train. And I had only run that once in my life in a half marathon. So it was like, oh, well, if I can do this just on a night after work, well, I feel like I could do this, you know?

10:05Yeah. Let's, I just feel like there's some really good meditative time in that. Oh, for sure. I mean, just to be by yourself running, do you listen to music while you run? Or do you just like nothing? It's awesome that you bring that up because I'll tell you this, like I think this might be true for a lot of chefs and people in my industry, especially back of the houses, not getting a lot of outside time. So it was almost like the running was a byproduct because I would go, I wanted to be outside. And it sounds disappointing and sad, but it's like, if I didn't have an excuse, quote unquote, to be outside, I wouldn't go. So it was like, okay, well, run. So it's like, now I'm going to the park. I'm getting outside, I'm running. I'm listening to books on tape. I'm listening to podcasts. I'm listening to music, putting together playlists, getting excited about that. The byproduct was getting in shape. Yeah. The purpose of it in general was getting some cardio breathing better, getting sunlight, natural light.

11:11We don't get natural light typically. So it's like, yeah. Is it vitamin D? Yeah. I mean, I love hiking for that same reason. I think it just think it's meditative. I get out there and I just, I start walking and I start listening to a book or a podcast and then my brain starts wandering and I turn the shit off and I just walk the rest of the way and just let my mind go. I went to Atlanta three weeks ago. I haven't mentioned this on the show yet. I went to Atlanta three weeks ago for the, when this comes out, this was a month ago for the team Heidi event. And from Chattanooga to Marietta, I turned off all sound in my car. Just turned the radio off, turned the screen off in my car and drove from Chattanooga to Atlanta with silence. Yeah. Yeah. Fucking incredible. Oh yeah. The things that I thought about and letting my brain, I think boredom is one of the greatest igniters of creativity and thought in moving forward and just driving in my car with no sound for two hours, an hour and a half, whatever it was.

12:26I felt like a different person when I got to the spot where I was going, I was like, oh my, I need to go write down all of the things I just, and I can imagine running is a very similar thing. You just go. Absolutely. I mean, these ideas just come to you and your mind wander. And that was the thing. It's like, I don't like running. It fucking sucks. And I've got a level of diagnosed ADHD and it's like, I get bored. That's more than anything. When you asked me about the marathon, I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do 26 miles. Like this, I'm gonna get so fucking bored with this. And that's where the playlists come in and all this. But to your point, it's almost, I've mentioned this before to my lady that it's like, I'm wearing sunglasses, I'm wearing headphones, I'm fucking, I'm blocking everything out.

13:27And there's times where it's like, that's not what this should be. You should be actually like 100% focused and in it rather than transporting your mind somewhere else. So there's like this dichotomy of like, yes, you're meditative because you're letting your mind follow these other paths versus if it was all shut off and you were just 100% in the elements, then where would your mind go? So there's pros and cons to each of those approaches. 100%. I think that's an interesting segue because I'm gonna change the topic of conversations. I'm really fascinated by this. Your podcast, you do a show. How long have you been doing it for? I had started in 2020 during the pandemic. That was me too. This started March 13th, 2020. It was my first episode. Wow. Like the day everything stopped. Yeah.

14:28It was crazy. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah, right around the tornado as well. Yeah, the week after the tornado. The week after, March 3rd, we were talking 10 days after the tornado and they stopped everything else and it's like, hey, let's talk about what we're going through. Your podcast is called Fuck You Depression. Yeah. Tell me the origin story behind this and kind of what made you decide to do it. It was, I mean, it's always been, I mean, it's been a part of my life. I mean, as long as I can remember, for better or for worse, I've had this affliction. It could be a superpower in some regards, but it can definitely be, it's got its challenges, of course. Oh yeah. And, you know, during the pandemic, I was out of work for almost a year, which was a benefit and we can definitely talk about that. And I was just trying to find direction. I didn't, I wasn't sure if I'm wanting to get back into cooking because I was in a very toxic environment for over a year here in Nashville and- In a restaurant?

15:36Yeah, yeah. A very large restaurant group here that I'm sure some of your listeners will recognize. Okay. And I mean, we joke that Miele is kind of a support group for people who have been burnt and a lot of former managers that just want to come in and do their job and be respected. So that's- It's an oasis. It totally is. But back to the inception of the podcast, I was like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. I don't know if I can give myself 100% to an organization or even a standalone restaurant. So what can I do? Because this is all I've ever done. I've never done anything else but cook. These are the skills that I have. Yeah. This is the way in which I can make a living so that I can live. But I can't just go be an architect. Exactly. This is what I know how to do. It's a very scary time. And the pandemic afforded me an opportunity to take a step back and really examine, okay, what is your passion?

16:45What do you think you have to offer, besides cooking? And everybody was dealing with all sorts of mental health and mental sickness and issues that maybe were deep seated, that were coming to the surface. And some that were brand new for people who had never experienced anxiety or panic or depression. I mean, if you're experiencing that for the first time as an adult, that can be very scary. So my thing was, I wrestled with it for so long because it's like, who wants to listen to me? What do I have to talk about? And eventually I just said, you know what? Just talk about your own experience. Do it. That's it. You know, you're an expert in your own experience and that's it. And you have playing to talk about and it will strike a chord with somebody. And there might be somebody who is struggling and can't put their finger on it or maybe feels alone.

17:52And this might be something where it might take the sting off of it. I think depression's very isolating. For sure. When you feel that you feel, because I've certainly had bouts of depression. I think anybody really has, if you've lived a life, if you put yourself out there, I think that you feel alone. You feel like you're the only person in the world who feels this way. And I think for you to put out a show called Fuck You Depression and to talk about, for me, in my depressive state, to listen to a show that understands how I'm feeling, really makes me not feel alone. Makes me feel like, okay, this is something that other people are dealing with. It's almost like a support group that you're putting out there. Like you said, if one person hears it and one person can go, wow, that really helped me, then let's go and then it's worth it. It makes it all worth it. And it's a good outlet for you too.

18:53Absolutely. And that's where the title came from too, was it wasn't Fuck Depression. It's Fuck You Depression. You're personifying it and saying, giving it a form and being like, you know what, you're not gonna fucking bully me. And it's giving you power back. I love that. Yeah. Yeah, it's empowering people to say, fuck you, depression, I'm not gonna let you control me. Give it a face, give it a form. It's not this ominous thing that hangs over you. Maybe it's somebody that you can just show to the door and say, you know what? I'm not fucking talking to you today. And you're not gonna talk to me like that today. That's huge. Yeah, there's a big distinction between fuck depression and fuck you, depression. I wouldn't have put that together without that explanation. I love that though, and that's pretty cool. I'm glad I clarified. Yeah, it's good. Tell me about some of the guests that you've had.

19:55What are some of the, tell me about some of the symptoms of depression or what you guys are talking about. Yeah, I've had some close friends, everybody from, my singer has been on there, who's a very close friend of mine, and he's an entrepreneur here in Nashville. And the name of your band is? Hellfire Revival. Hellfire Revival, you said the singer of the band. You play the drums. I do, yes. Okay, you're the drummer in Hellfire Revival. You've had your singer on? Yep, and he had a very interesting experience with combating his depressive state with silo silvin mushrooms. Yeah. I've had another close friend who's a veteran and talking about some of his PTSD and his experience with certain treatments and medication, cocktails. I've had my lady on and talking about anxiety and trauma.

20:58And I mean, these people got very vulnerable and open and their stories are just absolutely incredible. The strength that they've shown through their darkest times. And I've also had a chef on too, Jeremy. And we talk about a lot of really great things in the industry. That show is specifically geared around the mental health and the mental illness that plagues our industry. Well, I think that's a good segue to jump into that. Okay, yeah. Mental health in our industry. Last week, we had on an HR expert and we talked about what she's dealing with in Nashville working with restaurants and mental health. What are some of the things? And I gave my reason as to why I think mental health is really difficult in our industry. What are you hearing? What are your feelings on this? Well, it's what I'm experiencing and I've been on both sides of it because I've been the line cook and then I've worked my way into a leadership position on multiple levels.

22:09And I've been abused and in certain instances, I've been the abuser as well. And there's an enormous responsibility for managers of all types, front of the house, back of the house to recognize and to put forth the effort and really learn how to do a better job. And it's something that I take very seriously and I'm not gonna bullshit. I mean, there's people that are gonna maybe listen to this that have worked with me that said, you know, fuck this guy. He was an asshole. He treated me like shit and there's truth to that. You know, there's people that I regret the way that I behaved. It's embarrassing, but all I can do is be better and learn from those lessons and say, you know what? Maybe you didn't have the tools or maybe, maybe you just weren't good enough.

23:14Don't make excuses. In the past, you're talking about yourself. Maybe you just weren't good enough. Oh, for sure, yeah. I mean, being put into a position of leadership, not everybody's cut out for that. No. No, there's some horrible people that are managers and you can take classes, you can read books. I mean, now you can go on YouTube and all this. I mean, that wasn't widely available when I was coming up. Now there's all these indispensable resources and talk and podcasts that address these things. You know, for a long time, people were just doing their best. I think this is fascinating because when I stopped drinking, you know, almost four and a half years ago, that's what I was taught. I was taught that emotions were bad. Being a man means you're not allowed to have emotions and that you have to be the strong one in every situation.

24:16Boys don't cry and at the end of the day, you get to start drinking. The way that you handle all these emotions, all these icky feelings that you're having is, just go have a drink, you deserve it. That is the, I was taught, I'm not saying like by my parents, but like, I think society. The peer group. The peer groups and then in the community, but also there was a side of kind of some masculinity from my paternal grandparents that were, don't be a pussy. And it's like, okay, I won't be a pussy. Like, I don't know what that means, but like, that was a thing. You know, when you grow up that way and that's what you're taught, you tend to then, those traits tend to go out until you learn. And when I stopped drinking, I started having all these feelings. And I said, I don't know what the fuck is going on with me, but I am angry. And I was angry and it took me a lot of counseling and a lot of conversations with people to go, I was taught a bunch of shit that wasn't, and then I started seeking.

25:21Then I became like, oh my God, everything that I was taught wasn't, like that's not right. So there's people back there who knew me from back in the day. They're like, no, that guy's a dick. And it's like, yeah, I was. I wasn't equipped with the knowledge I needed or I wouldn't listen when somebody tried to tell me because you're wrong and I'm a man and you can't tell me wrong. And it's like, I invite that. I love that stuff now. I'm like, tell me where my, I wanna grow. I'm like constantly looking for how I'm gonna get better tomorrow and looking for conversations like people with you where I can go and tell me about your experience too. Cause it's very real. And now we have all these amazing resources. I can listen to podcasts. I can listen to vulnerability everywhere and see it modeled if I want to find it. And to go. And like you're saying, seeing it modeled. I mean, there's so many other avenues where it might not even be our industry specifically where you can listen to something else and be like, oh my God, that resonates with me.

26:24And I would never otherwise be able to identify with this person, but they're saying something that's just landed, you know? And having so many podcasts and, you know, social media for better or for worse, you know? I mean, for the most part, I think it's poison, but. I agree 100%. But there's. I think it's gonna be a downfall of our society. Yeah, easily, easily. And, you know, I'm doing my best to stay away from it, but the downs, what's sad about that is there's many really useful things on there and you have to sift through the bullshit. And it's hard because the bullshit is what sells. That's what keeps you on there. And no matter how much you kind of filter through that, it always comes flooding back. And you have to be so diligent. I don't have the time, the energy, and honestly, the fucking effort to do it. So I'm like, I don't need this that badly.

27:26No. But there are good things in there to sift through, for sure, but what you were talking about, you know, be a man, don't be a pussy, this kind of stuff. I think that this is a very important thing that people overlook is the difference between being hurt and being injured, okay? Because you can tell somebody to walk it off if they're hurt, you know? We've all been bruised, we've burned our fingers, we've done that. If your bleeding doesn't stop, yeah, you should probably go home. You should probably seek medical attention. 100%. You know, I've worked in kitchens where I was made to feel like I was inadequate or because I lost a fingertip and I couldn't stop bleeding. And it's like, well, you can call me what you want, but I don't think it's, one, I don't feel too good right now.

28:30And second of all, this is very unsanitary. Yeah. At the very least, like, let's think about that we're handling food, you know? So those injuries aren't always- Badges of honor. They're not, but they're not always physical. And those are the hard ones to identify is the internal ones. And you'll see that a lot with, you know, I might be speaking a little bit out of school here, but with veterans is, you know, there aren't the physical wounds and the scars to identify. So sometimes people just think, oh, they're fine. You know, there's no combat related anything, but it's like, no. No, there is. Wounds can be so deep that they're harder to see and harder to identify. And it's harder to come forward because you don't have them. Or because the culture of masculinity says that you don't want to admit that you're broken in some way because then you're not good enough.

29:34And how come I can't measure it? Then it starts just piling on. It sure does. It sure does. And you still, unless you seek help for that, it just keeps getting heavier and heavier and heavier. And I think, again, the easiest way to subside that pain is through a substance. Yeah. I mean, our industry is, you know, riddled with all sorts of addictions. And I think that this is a good time to hit on this, which is where does the mental health or rather the mental illness in our industry come from? We're going to expand on that comment right after these words from our sponsors. Dude. Yeah. Dude, I had so much fun last night. Oh my gosh. And you know what, bro? Bro. I feel great today. Dude, I feel amazing. I know. What was that stuff we were drinking? Cali Sober. That's right. Dude, that stuff was amazing.

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34:53And the answer is both. I was gonna say, it's gotta be both. It is because a maniac can exist here and the behavior is not only accepted but it's almost encouraged. It can be a superpower. If you don't sleep, if you don't eat, if you are full of energy, if you are hyper-focused and diligent and don't stand for the single smallest mistake, yeah, that'll get you some really good food. But now you're creating maniacs as well who maybe otherwise weren't. So it's a good place for people to blend in and I can definitely say that I fell into that category where I think I got away with too much for too long in the regard where maybe it was my dependability, maybe it was my cooking overcompensated for the fact that I was a lunatic but after a while, there were consequences and I think if those consequences had fallen sooner in my career, I could have learned lessons that I needed to sooner rather than later.

36:23Like what? Can you go into what those lessons might be? Like what lessons did you learn? What did you wait to, what were you doing and you waited too long to have this moment? Like what are the details if you're willing to share? For sure, I mean punching cooler doors, yelling at staff, I mean I've been- Just tantrums? Yeah, I mean you could call them that. Making people cry and breaking down myself. Just creating an overall environment of instability rather than stability. Why do you think you would, like in the middle of a shift, I'm curious about this because you talked about either you're a maniac coming in or you get to be created as a maniac. When you start, when you get into a position of leadership and you start yelling at people and you get that angry and punching cooler doors and stuff, how do you, like what causes that? Where did you see that modeled to where you felt like that is the thing I need to do?

37:27And after you do that, how did it make you feel? Oh, I mean let me start with the last part. I mean it's embarrassing, it's shameful. When you go home at the end of the night and you're like I made Tina cry tonight because in the middle of everything I decided to scream at her. Yeah, I mean it's my worst characteristic. It's the worst part about it. If I could change one thing hands down overnight it would be that. It never feels good. It's never something to brag about or it doesn't make you tough. It doesn't make you anything. No, it doesn't. It makes you look weak to me. For sure, for sure. And that's even harder to contend with because you gotta show your face and you're showing your ass, you know? And I mean sometimes during those shifts, I mean it's not like it's over cut roll credits. You still gotta finish up the shift and now everybody's looking at you either they're scared or they think you're a fucking jackass, which you are.

38:36And you gotta lead this team. Like there's so much rebuilding to do and you lose good people too because I've lost people who are like, I don't need this bullshit and they don't. And I thank the people that stayed with me through that because maybe they saw something or maybe they didn't know how to leave or what it was but I was given an opportunity to heal and rebuild whatever I had left to rebuild. But where- Did you have to hit like a rock bottom? Was there a seminal moment that you were like, I've gone too far? Did somebody pull you aside and be like, dude, get your shit together? Like what the fuck is wrong with you? Oh, my whole life. I mean, principals, coaches, chefs, I mean I've had that conversation so many times where people would be like, you're fucking me. They'd be like, you're fucking up.

39:37You need to stop fucking up. And honestly, like I got fired too late in my career for the first time. And I think that that kind of sent a signal that like I touched on earlier, that okay, everything else compensated for the fact that yeah, we have to deal with his outbursts. You had a talent that was, yeah. There's a value in your talent you have to constantly balance. Does his toxic traits, which one's worse? The toxic traits are the fact that he runs a hell of a kitchen, his food is delicious and people are coming for that. We'll deal with some of the bullshit until the bullshit over runs the talent. And who knows, maybe it wasn't even that. Maybe I was holding those people hostage. Maybe they didn't know. How do you approach somebody who's that volatile? It's difficult. It takes a strong leader who cares about their people and cares about that.

40:37You have to, as a leader, if I have you as a chef, I'm not just get the fuck out of here. I'm sitting down with you going, what's going on with you, man? Let's talk about this. Cause this behavior isn't normal. It's not healthy. Something, it's a symptom of something else that's going on that you're letting out as this. I don't look at that as this is a bad person. I look at everybody's good inside. But there's something that's happening in your life that is causing this behavior. I wanna get to that root and find out what that is. I think that you have a lot, you grant people a lot of grace. I do. And that's good. That's definitely a very good thing to have. Not everybody does. Not everybody thinks there's good in everybody. And I can say that there's one specific conversation that stands out and that was with Chef Leon Trevino who I took over after he bowed out from this one restaurant and that was my first chef's position.

41:48Before that occurred, he had taken me aside. We went out on a patio right on the Fox River in St. Charles, Illinois. And he sat me down and he said, what's exactly what you said, what's going on with you? This can't continue. But I'm not ready to give up on you either. I wanna see you do good because you've got talent. And you're standing in your own way. That kind of conversation. The specifics. I believe in you. I believe in who you are in here. I don't think this person you're portraying in the kitchen is really you. What's going on? He had that kind of a conversation with you. He wanted to see me where I am now. And he could see it, but it was all the shit in between he knew was gonna occur if action wasn't taken. And I stay in contact with him today. I was gonna say, have you called him and said, hey man, I just wanna say thank you, appreciate that call. But if you stay in contact with him, he knows that he knows.

42:48And I also apologize. I'm sorry for the fucking hell I put you through. And I could have been a much better cook for you than I was because I had so much of my own bullshit that I wasn't dealing with in a healthy way. Not sleeping, not eating. At that point I was going through, I was going through an eating disorder that was very unhealthy. And drinking to excess. And not sleeping. I mean, what the fuck? It's like. That's a recipe for something not good. You put this on paper and you're like, yeah, no wonder you were a maniac. And getting back to your question from a few minutes ago, it's like the chicken or the egg. I think one of the things that creates these instances of mental struggle is the diet and the sleep.

43:51Those two things. You ask any nutritionist, dietician, any doctor, any holistic healer, you ask a fucking shaman. Right? Anybody who knows something. Yeah, they're gonna be like, okay, what's your sleep like and how are you eating? That's the first thing they're ever gonna ask you before they even get into your home life, your family, your history. Really? It's what's your diet like and how are you sleeping? And how many chefs? It's like, well, I eat when I can, usually over a trash can or a milk crate. And I sleep when I can. That's not a recipe for a healthy mind or a healthy body. And it's up to us to take ownership of that and say, you know what, I could go out for beers or I could turn the lights off, not turn on the TV, maybe read. Stretch, go for a hike, go for a run, for a walk.

44:51You know, lay here in the dark, you know. Get bored. Yeah, get bored. Meditate. But I think the other part that drives us into these addictions is we need to, we've been spoiling people, quote unquote, throughout the day. We've been delivering hospitality to other people, strangers in most cases. There is this selfish element and I can only speak from myself and I'm gonna be 100% honest. There's this selfish element of what about me? You know, I wanna be pampered. I want at least to fucking feel good today because I haven't felt good today. So I'm gonna drink or I'm gonna smoke weed or I'm gonna look at porn or I'm gonna fucking stay up all night watching The Simpsons or whatever the fuck it is that people like to do that's unhealthy. I'm gonna do that for me. They're gonna do it because that's their reward, you know?

45:53And how many of us have worked an incredibly draining shift? 12, 14, 16 hours. And at the end of the day, you don't feel like you have accomplished anything. When you go through that and you can't even pull out one positive thing where it's like we, dude, this was so good. What a victory. It's not that, it's, I can't believe we made it. It's survival. We made it over the finish line. Let's go home. There's not this, and you don't need to throw a parade but I mean, there's an accomplishment there. Like you did something that was great and you did it as a team. Like you should be very proud. And it's sometimes very difficult to notice and recognize those achievements. You know, we had Easter at Mayor Bowl a few weeks ago and we did 1,100 guests.

46:56Hell yeah, hell yeah. From 9.30 to 4.30, right? So I mean, that's. I love it. That's hair on fire. Yeah, going on. Whole thing was successful. Massive day. Everybody crushed it. But you know what we talked about the next day? We talked about that hour between one and two, between one and 2.30, when the kitchen couldn't quite keep up with the demand, because it's a buffet. It's like a brunch buffet. Okay. It's all this stuff and. Hell yeah. There's one moment where we didn't. Smart, by the way. We didn't have something on the line and one of the guys came in and said, where's this, I need you guys to keep up. And so the next day we're talking about how do we not let that happen again? And I could not help myself in the middle of that and thinking like, why are we not throwing a fucking party for the other nine hours during that day? Or we had 47 employees in this building, making 1100 people happy. Why do we have to focus on that one, one hour?

47:58It's natural that you're not going to, it's a hard thing to do that day. We're all human beings, but we focused on that for the next day. Instead of, dude, way to schedule everybody in, way to have all food for 1100 people ready to go. The feat in planning to execute that is so much work and I fear that my team feels they didn't do a good job because of that one thing that we focused on. I think we told, right now in this moment, right now I'm sitting here and I'm going, fuck, I need to go back. You gotta. And just tell them, like dude, you guys crushed it. You gotta have a shit sandwich. You gotta start with something good, put something in, hey, this is what was fucked up in the middle. But also I did notice this, you and you, the way that you guys were working together, absolutely fantastic. Great job, man. I just kind of feel bad right now. I'm sitting here right now going, man, in retrospect, we just celebrate the wins more so than focus on the tiny shortcomings because we're human beings.

49:05I mean, I'm going through that right now. I mean, I battle with this thing where it's like, we're ultra critical. You know? Those are the things that we notice. And I oftentimes have to stand back and I've got photos on my phone of my crew. Just every, I look and every single person is doing something. Not a single person is not doing something and their heads down. And I take a picture because they are so focused, they're not even gonna notice that and they don't. And it's like, I couldn't be more proud in that moment. And those are the things that I have to remind myself. It's like, these people are doing great work and they're doing it because they believe in it. Whatever individual task they're executing in that moment, you can see that they want it to be great.

50:05And those moments, I take pictures because I need to remember that because it's so easy to lose focus of it. That's not an easy thing to do. And chefs, and I think leaders in a lot, I mean, in the corporate sector, you could have a team of fucking people that are working their ass off accomplishing things, but oh, this dipped a little bit from last month. We need to get on this. And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. We've been putting together a lot of effort and time. And furthermore, you've got a great fucking team here and great teams do not pop out of nowhere. And you can't always necessarily train a great team. So when you have one, that is something to cherish and to develop. And you let that, you gotta let those people just fucking operate. And you can sit back and be like, I'm just, in this moment, I am so fortunate to have this. Yeah, there's a lot of things we have to do to remember.

51:09And there's, I mean, that was a good time to plug this, but there's an organization out of England called the Burnt Chef Project. And I've been checking them out. I really appreciate what they do. They talk a lot about mental illness and bringing awareness to our industry. And one thing they have is they have a poster that it's an end of the night checklist. And what do you think is on this? It's not- Check in with people to find out if they're okay. Absolutely, that's one of the fucking things on there. And it's not, are the floors done? Is the paper towels restocked? Is the dish machine often sanitized? No, it's, first and foremost, what's one thing that we did great today? Let's celebrate that as a team. Let me check in with one person. And it doesn't even have to be somebody that's looking like they need to check in. Just check in with somebody. Yeah. And remember that this is something that I don't think people who aren't on the top can appreciate.

52:14And it's something that you don't experience until you are. It's very lonely at the top, very lonely. In a lot of cases, a good leader doesn't complain down. Right? So if that's the case, in individual standalone operations, who can you complain to? Who can you commiserate with? You have nobody. You can't go to your subordinates and start complaining. So you internalize that, or you have an outside support group. Therapist. Yeah, a therapist. I have a business coach. I work with a woman and she's amazing. Every other week, I have a call with her and we talk for an hour and I get to talk about all of these things because I have 230 employees and I can't complain down.

53:17I have an owner, but we also tend to commiserate together. Sometimes it's not the most positive because we're the only ones we get and we just let it, it's like a shotgun blast and you need that to be structured. And somebody needs to go, hey, why do you think you felt that way? Why do you think in that moment, your brain went there versus finding gratitude? And it's like, I don't know, I gotta practice that. Do you think there's, I'm gonna change the subject real quick. Do you think there's a correlation between the level of food that you're preparing and the level of mental health? Because Miele is a very nice restaurant. Thank you. You're not going there and getting a Big Mac. I mean, the food is prepared well, it's fresh ingredients and the presentation of the food has to be equal to, if not better than the taste because people are eating with their cameras first and then they actually eat the food and it's gotta all make sense. If I'm at Applebee's and I'm putting together a Sonora chicken pasta, I don't know if that's a dish there.

54:18It was at Ruby Tuesdays back in the day and I'm just throwing some stuff in there and I put, spin it in a window and it's being exported out to a table and it's a $8 dish or whatever. Like, I don't think there's as much pressure. Do you think the pressure of working in a fine dining, high stakes restaurant adds to it? Absolutely. I mean, we can look at, you know, people like Bernard Lassault and Charlie Trotter and Hamaru, I mean, these are all chefs who took their own lives and they were at the top of their game. They were pathfinders. These guys changed the game, okay? And each one of them met a very tragic end and I don't think that you'll find a kitchen manager from Outback that is pushed to that level.

55:23And I'm not saying that that's not a difficult demanding job. There's a different push that they have from their boss's boss's boss's boss, corporate coming down and posting results on a wall and you're like, oh shit, which level? It's like, I got eight bosses, Bob. Which one's gonna come to me today? I don't know, I get all these, it's a different kind of stress versus. It is, and the community is much different. Much different. When you've got Michelin and James Beard and Zagat, like those are things where the most unhealthy thing as you probably know is to compare yourself to somebody else and it is very difficult not to. It's very. It's almost impossible not to. To look at. It's a natural thing. Right, and you might be pushing yourself so hard to get that one star. Not three, you just want the one star. Maybe you want to be nominated for James Beard. Just to be fucking nominated.

56:25To be on the short list. Right, and your name associated with that. I can hear my dad right now being like, yeah, good, aim short kind of thing. But I'm not talking about myself because those aren't goals of mine. That's not what I do this for. But I can see how in the case of Bernard Lassau, the story goes that he was afraid that he was gonna lose one star. He never did. He never did. And whether that's the truth or not, we don't know. He exhibited a lot of the characteristics of bipolar and it could have been something that was gonna happen sooner or later. But there is that overwhelming pressure at that level and what goes into it, the hours. Charlie Trotter, yeah, his restaurant was open five days a week. What was he doing on Sunday and Monday?

57:27He was traveling with an incredibly hectic schedule. He was running every single day training for triathlon. The man was relentless and it caught up with him one way or another. And you can only operate in overdrive for so long before that engine gives out. And our cuisine, and I hesitate to put myself in that peer group because. True, I understand. But when you're operating at such a high level of cuisine, there's so much more at stake. There's so much more at stake. People have expectations before they've ever eaten at your place. They're walking through that door and they're already sizing you up. And this is the spot we are gonna take our final commercial break. Y'all today we are talking as always about SuperSource. And you know, one cool thing about SuperSource is did you know that they develop most of their cleaning products and chemicals in their in-house facility?

58:35They're environmentally conscious and only use dyes that are safe for the employees and the environment. They carry a number of products for keeping your dishes, flatware, services, floors, restrooms, laundry, basically your entire facility clean, bright, and smelling and feeling new. This is just one of the many reasons SuperSource is taking over this city for dish machine and chemicals. You need to call Jason Ellis. His number is 770-337-1143. And he would love it if you would give him a call and let him come down and just check out your operation, meet him, say hi, see if there's any way he can help. He is here to help you succeed. That's Jason Ellis with SuperSource, 770-337-1143. At What Chefs Want, they deliver the seven most needed product lines to meet the unique needs of chefs and restaurateurs. From local to global and from staple items to gourmet rarities, they have the variety of products to cover all of your needs.

59:39Produce, seafood, meats, gourmet, staples, to-go, and dairy. At What Chefs Want, they're transforming food service by eliminating minimum orders, offering split cases, and providing daily deliveries with 24-7 customer support. This means chefs have the flexibility to order what they need when they need it. Experiment with new ingredients and keep their kitchens consistently stocked with fresh supplies. It's all about empowering culinary creativity while streamlining operations. Check them out at whatchefswant.com or give them a call at 800-600-8510. Unleash the wolf with Campo Bravo Tequila. Campo Bravo is a 100% agave tequila with a bold, smooth flavor, perfect for sipping meat as a shot or in cocktails. Campo Bravo is also certified additive-free, which means there are no artificial flavors or sweeteners in Campo Bravo like there are in many other brands.

01:00:42Campo Bravo gives you all the bold, smooth flavor you want in a tequila with nothing you don't. Campo Bravo is actually truly farm-to-bottle tequila, meaning our fifth-generation agave farmers meticulously control entire production process from the farm to the bottle to give you the highest-quality handcrafted tequila. Order through best brands and please remember to drink responsibly. There's expectations. There's so much more at stake. People have expectations before they've ever eaten at your place. They're walking through that door and they're already sizing you up. Well, that's what you work. You're working that hard to have that reputation so when people walk in, their expectations are, because then you can charge the higher dollar amount. You can have more profits, but also that's where the recognition comes from. But if you don't ever get that or you don't execute, your standard gets so high that that pressure. But fundamentally, you want somebody to yes, have that reputation.

01:01:45I want the reputation that I can cook great food with great ingredients and I can run a solid kitchen. But when you pass through the threshold and get to your seat, I don't want you to have any expectation than having a great experience. I don't want you to picture, okay, the lobster should be like this. The risotto should be like that. Oh, it wasn't like that. Was it still incredible? Well, it can't be because it didn't meet what I thought it was gonna look like or taste like. But it was different. But it was spectacular. But you're going in with this predetermined mindset of what it should be. And I mean, a lot of these, specifically the Michelin star restaurants, they don't want you taking pictures of their food because they want it to be, you have to have this element of surprise. Oh, I wonder. The best example would be the cornets from French Laundry, right?

01:02:55This was a very playful thing that was born out of a childish nostalgia for like tasting the ice cream at, you know, you go to an ice cream store and they give you those tiny cones. Here's your sample, right? And every chef that's listening to this knows this story. So tune out for a second. But Thomas Keller decided to do that with some salmon into a sesame cornet, a little twill, and then some creme fraiche and chive. And it comes out on this palette with holes where they're hanging down. And it was this, immediately, people who weren't expecting that you see that and you're like, oh my God, it's like those little ice cream things. And you take one bite and they're fantastic. Well, it goes into a book, then it goes into a cookbook, and then there's photos of it. And now if you were to go to the French Laundry and not get that, you'd be like, oh, we're not getting the cornets? It's like, we're going to give you the experience of a lifetime.

01:04:01And you're already disappointed because you expected something specific. You shouldn't expect something specific. You should have expectations. You should definitely hold a place to a high standard. But to be like, this is what I want. Case in point, we do wine classes at Miele. We did a South African wine class. I'm not South African. I have zero experience with South African food. I've only met two people from South Africa in my life. And we did a four-course menu of South African food that was, I was impressed that we pulled it off, honestly. Like, I'm going to show my cards. Like, I'm going to pat myself on the back a little bit and my team as well. We did it.

01:05:01But that was totally outside of our comfort zone and our wheelhouse. I had no experience with those flavors. And you can only read about it. So you're tasting and you're like, this tastes great, but I don't know if this is what it's supposed to taste like, right? So we did one where it was Sicilian and Sicilian food is very specific to that area. And people came in and some of them were like, oh, I don't like sardines. Well, that's the experience. That's their number one cherished seafood. And that would be something, if you were given that at somebody's house in Sicily, that would be a gift. And furthermore, you're here to learn about wine. So perhaps you don't like, I don't like sardines. I don't like mackerel. I don't like oily fish. But I'm learning more and more about wine and paired with the correct wine from that region, what would normally be something that might be a little bit off-putting and becomes wonderful?

01:06:12Well, it's like, I like that wine is a sauce. When I would drink wine with a meal, wine was in a dish, it was like a sauce. It added to everything you're eating. So now would you sit there and be like, oh, I don't like this. Well, we haven't even put the sauce on it yet. Yeah, I'd try it. I'd try anything. How do you know you don't like it? By itself, you might not like it. If you had eggs Benedict without Hollandaise sauce, it would be a completely different experience. It's a lot different, yeah. And furthermore, you're here for a class. Isn't this to learn? So you're coming in and you're already starting to dictate what this experience ought to be instead of being receptive. Show me, make a believer out of me. But now also yourself, you're having expectations going into this that everybody needs to try it or wants to try it. And really what we can do is as servants, because that's what we are. Absolutely. We're servants.

01:07:12I can put this thing together and I can prepare it. If you don't eat it, you don't need it. I have zero control over that. I don't control that. It makes no difference to me whether or not you eat it or not. I want you to. I want you to try it because I put a lot of work into this and I want you to try it. But if you don't, okay. I can't let that affect me. Well, not even okay. For me, it's your loss. Yeah, sure. You denied yourself something that could have been life-changing. And at the risk of sounding grandiose, I'm saying like- Too late. I'm saying like, when you eat something and you're like, I don't know about that. And then you have the right glass of wine with it. You're like, whoa, this has changed. This has altered my perspective of what I actually enjoy. And I thought I knew what I enjoy. That is life-changing. That can open you up to other things where it's like maybe there's other things that I didn't think that I would enjoy that I might enjoy. And I don't think you should go into that with preconceived notions.

01:08:18Well, it's Anthony Bourdain on that boat in France with his family and they go out to get oysters when he was a kid. And they go out and the low tide comes in, they pull the oysters out and the guy's on the boat and he says, who wants an oyster? And he's like, I don't know. And Anthony Bourdain's like, I'll try it. He goes, it was delicious. It was the best damn thing I've ever had. Everybody was like, I'm not trying that, but he tried it, he's like, I'll do it. The cold soup and gazpacho and the whole Anthony Bourdain story is amazing. So we're getting towards the end here. We do about an hour on this show. And man, we've kind of talked the gamut of all of this stuff. How do we wrap it up? How do we put a bow on this? No, there's gonna be a final thought. You get to say our Gordon food service final thought at the end, you get to take us out. Final statement, some eyes of conversation, whatever you wanna do, that's at the end here. So don't do that yet. No pressure. But if we put a bow on kind of some of the stuff we're talking about, mental health is very real. Mental health is not shameful because you're having a hard time, because something doesn't go the way you want it to, because you're having feelings of inadequacy or somebody yelled at you, doesn't make those things true.

01:09:32And there's lots of help and there's a lot of people out there that are probably feeling the exact same way. And there's lots of help you can get. There's a podcast you can listen to called Fuck You Depression. You could listen to that on Spotify. On Spotify, and that is a place where you can also learn about it, but this is Mental Health Awareness Month. And this is so fun. It's so fun to be able to talk about all this stuff. But really it is, because it's not just, we're not just talking about meal and how amazing it is and you should go eat there. You're a real life chef who's kind of gone through it all. And I love that you're willing to talk about it because so many people aren't. I can still go through it. It's not something that goes away. It's not a past tense thing. And I thought for a minute that I was out of the woods and it will always sneak up back on me. And I need to be diligent. And I need to respect my enemy, okay? Because it will be a battle for the rest of my life.

01:10:37Same thing with me and alcoholism. I can say, I've learned all the tools. I've done the whole thing. But man, there are certain situations that I'm like, God, I'm gonna be really nice right now. Glass of wine would be really nice right now. And there's always a voice in the back of my head going, dude, one's not gonna hurt you. And I'm like, I have to, there's a thing at the end of these meetings I go to, and I go to 12-step program meetings. And y'all hold hands at the end of the thing and you say the Lord's Prayer. And then you say, keep coming back. It works if you work it. And that's the thing you can't forget, that it's there or act like it's not there. You have to constantly be diligent in battling it and being aware of it. And it's okay. Like it's not a bad thing. It's okay. That's always gonna be a thing for me, but I know I can beat it. I know I can fight it. On that note, I think when it comes to depression, anxiety, panic attacks, anger, all the things that plague most chefs is allowing yourself mistakes.

01:11:52You might fuck up. You might slip up. You are gonna fuck up. It's not a you might, you will. Yeah, and it's not the end of the world. You can bounce back and you will. Should you try your hardest to not make those mistakes, absolutely. And that's your responsibility. But if something does creep up and maybe you lost control for a minute or you let your emotions get the best of you, hey, do some damage control. Do what you can to make better on it and move on. If you gotta reach out to some people from your past and apologize, that's part of the 12 steps, right? That's 100% part of the 12 steps. I think that's part of being a chef that's grown and saying, you know what, I maybe mistreated you and I hope that you're doing better and that you're in a better kitchen and you're being treated the way that you ought to be because I didn't do it right.

01:12:56I'm on that step right now. So if there's, it's been four years. That's how long it's taken me to do all of the steps. So if you're listening to this, you're like, I haven't got my fucking phone call. It's coming. It's coming. It's coming. This is not an easy process. You're on hold right now, okay. I'll get to you, I promise. You'll get the phone call. But I do, look, you can have regrets or you can just understand that you're human beings and you can constantly be learning. Keep seeking out new truths because what you thought might have been the truth might not actually be the truth. People taught you growing up, travel, go see other things, see other cultures, see how other people live. Yeah, and try other kitchens because I mean, each one of them is different. Everybody has a different management style. You might think like, oh, this is how they all are. Oh, I have to just get used to being berated like this. No, you don't. No, you don't. Absolutely not. And it doesn't matter the level of cooking because there are chefs out there that are operating at an extremely high level that are the kindest, sweetest people in the world.

01:14:00And you just gotta find your right flavor. Some people are not motivated by that. Some people need and want to be prodded and that's fine. That's their flavor. Find the one that works for you and then pursue it. Have you read Unreasonable Hospitality? Oh, it's on my list. My sous chef just finished it. So she's been bringing me up to speed on it. Michelle? Yeah. Yeah, she's been on the show. She was awesome. She was on the show for five minutes. She is awesome. She is awesome. And I would not be the chef I am today without her. She has definitely propped me up and kept me going. And she has seen some of my darkest times as well. And I cannot say enough about having a sous chef like that. I would definitely be in a different position today if not for her. So thank you, Michelle. I love that. All right, well, let's finish the thing up. Today's Gordon Food Service final thought.

01:15:01Kind of just did a bunch of that, but let's get into whatever you want to say. As long as you want to say it, you're talking to our listening audience of restaurant tours. Mike, it's yours, go. Okay. As a leader, you have a tremendous responsibility to monitor your tone, and you are always on stage. People are watching you whether you know it or not, and you're modeling a behavior. And that's an enormous responsibility. So take it seriously. The people under you will be in charge one day, and they're going to be digging up their past, and there's going to be certain things that they have learned. So make sure that you're teaching them properly as best you can. Accept mistakes, shit's gonna happen, move on. Don't think of things on a scale from just one and 10, it's one, two, 10.

01:16:06So some fuckups are a five, and that's fine. Some fuckups are a seven. Adjust accordingly, recover, regroup, do damage control, move on. There's a difference between being hurt and injured. Recognize that. If somebody is injured, and I'm talking about emotionally, and spiritually, and mentally, that needs to be taken seriously. And you might not know how to handle that, not everybody does. There's resources out there. You get that person in contact with what they need to get the help that they need. And that could be anything from a crisis center to just talking to a friend or taking the next day off. There's all sorts, again, on a scale from one to 10, there's all sorts of different modes that could fit the right scenario. So look out for your people, take care of them, because they fucking take care of you.

01:17:08I love it, man. That's a hell of a final thought. Can I give you some resources real quick for- Absolutely, whatever you like. There's the suicide prevention lifeline. Recently, I think it was last year or the year before, they came out with a 988 number that you can text, you can call. That's an emergency if you're in crisis. Even, you don't have to be suicidal. You don't have to be contemplating suicide. You can just be in a state of crisis and not know what to do, they can help. And they can point you in the right direction. The Giving Kitchen is huge in the South. We got straight out of Atlanta and here in Tennessee now. They, endless resources. If you go on their website and you look at help, they've got everything that you need. Low cost, telehealth. They've got, if you need to get a physical and you can't afford it, they'll help you out. There are so many endless resources that they can put you in touch with.

01:18:11And Big Table here in Nashville as well. And the mental health co-op in Nashville, in Metro. They do a great job. They also have a crisis response team. So that could be with or without police assistance. If somebody's in crisis, you're having a manic episode, you're having a schizophrenic episode, you're having a severe panic attack. And I'm talking about a crippling panic attack where you think your life is over. They will help you. They know how to help you. They have the tools and the training to help. It's out there. Don't think like, you know, 911 is your last resort because it isn't. But Nashville has done an excellent job with being proactive in taking care of the mental health of the city. So, reinforce that.

01:19:12Yeah. Well, man, this has been absolutely amazing. I think we broke a record for the amount of fucks set in one episode, which is good. I've been wanting to break the record. I think it's like 12 and I think we've eclipsed that. My fucking pleasure. Yeah, dude. Fucking A, man. Let's go. I keep it in the reps most of the time, but I... Yeah. I wish, I mean, I know my mom's gonna listen to this. It's like smiling or sneezing. You know, like you just, I are yawning. Like you start saying like, yeah, fucking A, let's go. Exactly. So this is kind of fun. Thanks again. And go visit Miele. Go try your food. You wanna learn more about Jason and what he's cooking? Miele's over on Charlotte Pike. An amazing restaurant. It's kind of behind Bobby's Dairy Dip. Yeah, we're tucked away. Right behind, so it's a little, it's like across the street from Hattie B's and behind Bobby's Dairy Dip is Miele right there. Amazing, amazing restaurant. Go follow him on Instagram. You can find out about these different, if that wine dinner, the Sicilian wine dinner, it's already sounded good to you, follow him and you can learn more about that.

01:20:17And listen to Fuck You Depression. It is on Spotify. That is Jason's podcast. Any other plugs you got? Check out Hellfire Revival. Hellfire Revival, yeah, man. All right, well, thank you for joining us today and hope you have a wonderful rest of your month. You do the same, man. This has been an absolute pleasure and an honor. Mother's Day coming up. Yeah. This is gonna be a busy week, so let's make it happen. Hell yeah. All right, brother. All right, take care, man. I appreciate you. You too, bye-bye. So I tell you what, thank you so much, Jason, Chef Jason, for coming on the show today. I tell you, you never know what you're gonna get out of one of these episodes. We bring people in, we sit down, we start talking, and sometimes you get that. I mean, that was so fun. I mean, just the vulnerability and everything that he was saying. I know a lot of people out there are listening to that one. Man, I felt a lot of that. I felt a lot of that every day. This is crazy. Those who have the solution, just to know you're not alone out there, that this is a tough industry and you guys are doing a great job.

01:21:19No matter what industry you are, you know what? You're doing great, and we wanna thank you for listening to the show today, and I hope that you guys are being safe. Love you guys, bye.