Katie Waynick

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02:04You can order through your phone app or online. They truly are what chefs want. Check them out at WhatChefsWant.com. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello, Music City. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll and I am your host. I am joined today with Jen Ichikawa. Hi, Jen. Hi. So this is the first time we are here live in a studio. Yeah, you can't hear any kids in the background. Everything is so crystal clear. It's kind of nice. Yeah, it's very weird to hear myself. Yeah, it's a thing. So we are going to be we have an advantageous next couple of weeks.

03:06I think we have nine interviews in the next 10 days. I think 10 because we realized we'd forgotten one on the calendar. 10 interviews in the next 10 days. So we're going to start loading up this podcast. It's going to be great. Lots of really cool stuff. We're going to bring you lots of interesting stuff. Today should be no different. Today we are going to be speaking with Katie Wainick. And Katie is somebody that I've kind of been following ever since the beginning. She started following us on Instagram and then I followed her back. And I've just been watching this woman go from chef job to chef job, but not like leaving one to do another one. Like she's doing she's constantly upgrading. And I think that I think there's an interesting story here. So one of the things I want to do to start this show off is I want to talk about expectations. So we have not done this interview yet. It is upcoming. Yes. What are your expectations? Well, I, you know, am transitioning in my career right now.

04:07And I like that she's moved around a little bit and she's a mother of two because one of the things I've struggled with in this transition is finding a place that makes me feel like I get to be with my kids enough and good enough as a mother because best is I think not an option realistically for anyone. So I'm excited to talk to her about that and how she places the value on her time and where she spends it. Yeah, 100 percent, 100 percent. I'm going. I want to do the same thing, but more of a where does it come from? Because she is my whole perception. She's just a badass. She's a hustler and she loves her kids like everything online is about her. Yeah, everything. She has hashtags. Yeah, she has hashtags for kids, but she's like working a massive schedule and raising two kids, not just like raising kids, but like involved, like she's a super involved mom. And it is she's she's she's an inspiration to me.

05:07I love hearing about it. So I'm excited just to hear that story. What's the thing that drives her? What does she wakes up? Like what sucks her out of the sheets? Right. What's the thing that says I got to go to? And it's probably her kids. Imagine it's her kids. Yeah. But that's also got to come from somewhere. Yeah. You know, that's what I'm curious to find out. I really want to dig into that more. Yeah, definitely. And I'm excited to talk to somebody like in the studio. Yeah. Look at them while I'm interviewing them. That's not on a screen. I'm trying to think of the last time we did in person. Like you and I have done it in the same room before, but only twice, three times. Maybe. Yeah. I mean, I've done my half dozen interviews live. And then Delia and I, when we did the roundup, we did a live show from autos. Right. But this quality was so bad. Like our lives are so bad. I could probably do a much better version of that now. We could just take this equipment and go. But now this is going to be cool. Yeah, I'm excited about it. And then hang out after the episode, because after the episode, we're going to get back together.

06:10And I'm going to find out what our expectations, if they were met, like what did you think? Make sure she's like, yeah, I don't want to talk about my kids at all. We'll be like, OK, here we go. Let's do something different. So, yeah, so we after the show hang out because we're going to jump back in and talk about it. We're going to do kind of a recap or a roundup of the actual interview. Yeah, that'd be awesome. So let's jump in. Yeah. Katie Wainick. I don't know. In 2006, when Facebook first came out, I made it. I was like, I'm professional. OK, I'm a high school graduate. Sure. You know, sure. And now I'm like, I don't know why. I went through a very brief Jenny phase and now but with an I.E. And I was like very adamant that you spell it with an I.E. Because it had to be different. But now if anyone calls me Jenny, I'm like, you're in vandalizing me and I don't like it. So we're officially live on the show right now, welcoming in Katie Wainick.

07:14When exactly say Wainick to do it right. Yeah. Well, we're just talking, getting to know each other. If you'll come a little closer to the microphone. Yes, you can do that. I will. It sounds much better. There you go. Yeah. All right. It sounds like you're in the room, which is good. As we continue to break in this brand new studio, Katie Wainick is our first guest live in studio. We're looking at you live. Look at this. Most people we look at on a screen while we're talking to them. And then we. I was surprised. I thought that this was going to be over the phone. I thought this was going to be a cool Zoom meeting. No, I'm so fucking over. I had my PJs ready. You could have still worn those. There's definitely no dress code. I told him today I'm dressed like a teenager. There's no dress code. Well, I asked him. I needed a little heads up. I was like, do I need to wear my chef jacket or should I bring my knives?

08:15What type of situation is that? I did one of those things last night where she I fell asleep early because I'm a tired person. And it was like nine thirty. She texted me and said, should I wear like my chef coat or should I wear? And I never responded to her. And then I woke up at like six and I was like, oh, I'll respond to her. You go to six. That's late for you. Oh, well, I get it. Six is about the time. He's like, I feel like he's always awake. So I'm surprised, like just always like I'll text him randomly at like eleven thirty for something. He responds instantly. And I'm like, do you sleep, though? Because then he'll call me at six thirty in the morning when, yeah, I'm up. Like, why are you up? My kids are 12 months like they're always up. Yeah, that's I mean, it's the same for me. It's I was talking about a menu at eleven o'clock last night. And I just ended up in that position where I was like, I don't really know what I'm going to respond with. I'm going to go with K, but I don't want it to seem rude. That's less rude. It softens the blow. Hey, we have a long running debate that I think I'm winning.

09:15But if you did respond with K or just K, if you put a period after it, do you think that person would have thought you were upset? I think that's deep. That's deep. Early in this this this conversation, I don't like K at all. I agree. I don't even like, OK, I will spell OK. To show that, like, OK, then put a period at the end of that. If you put a period, do you look at that and go like, oh, they're angry. Like, OK, it says or I'm trying to say I'm angry. Oh, probably only if I was going to go as far as to just write K. OK, if I was going to just write K, I'd probably honestly punctuality via text. It is what it is. I think I'm old. Right. Yeah, I'm not like I'm not a millennial and I'm on the cusp. I have certainly have millennial tendencies, I'm sure. When were you born? Mm, 1979, March 8th, 1979. I was born in 88, but I feel like I've got. But I put periods after I like finished sentences like all of his sentences.

10:18I still have original grammar. Yeah, like my grammar is like I write a sentence and there's a period at the end of it. Comma. Yeah, I do. I have no, I'm not mad at commas. I'm not mad at a period to end the sentence. I'm mad at a period to end the text message. If if the whole if like there's multiple sentences, I disagree. Thank you. No, thank you. I'm 1990. That was the cut off right there. It was the 90 babies. 90s are rude. If you grew up in the 90s. No, my point is you're rude. That's my point. OK, so Katie, you are a chef. I'm not really sure if I need to put a period there or not. But he's putting a period on the conversation. I'm going to say a period for him. No, no period for you. Well, we've come to the understanding that when I text, I use proper grammar and I'm not mad at her. And I can tell when he's intentionally not using a period because he thinks I was mad at him for something. He just doesn't use it at all. You just got to learn the other person. Yeah, that's what it is. It's taken about a year and I think we've gotten it. She's helped me because on when I text people that I don't know, I've stopped using periods because I recognize it.

11:23It's that might be something that people are like, dude, what the fuck? Well, it's like if you just say like, hey, we need to talk. And that's the whole email. That's the whole text message. And then someone spiraling and you just meant about bread or something. Yeah, no. You know, so so that is one thing that one of my chefs has learned. I think he hasn't. He's going to learn it now. It's like you cannot tell me we're going to talk later. Yeah. No, we don't talk now. I'm not driving. I will pull over in a parking spot. We're going to talk now. I am not going to think of all the millions of different directions. This can go good, bad, whatever. Like, like, no, is that not the worst when you're just like, what did they mean? Like, I want to have that conversation. That's why I pick up the phone and I'm like, what do you mean? What is it? What's going on? Let's just let's have it. I like conflict to a degree. Like, let's have it. I don't want to anticipate conflict. Yeah, let's just have it. Did you see Kanye West? Listen, there's a lot going on Kanye West in the news right now.

12:24And I'm not like I'm not like a big fan. But I do think it's really funny. He like came out because, you know, he's holding up a picture or something. He's all mad about Pete Davidson or whatever. Anyway, he wrote a new caption, deleted everything, posted one picture, wrote a caption that said, I've now realized that all caps makes people think I'm mad at them. You just now realize that? I think it's a boomer thing. I know that. Anyway, but I think it's so funny that that took him that long to realize. And I'm like, please help your elders and your peers, Kanye, and let them know that like all caps do mean you're mad. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I don't know what to say about him. He's a mess. Oh, yeah. I mean, I feel bad because it's like clearly he's having a mental health crisis. So like, I feel bad, like implementing any kind of like you're wilding out a little bit. Yeah, but I'm kind of messed up. Yeah. I don't know if I can tell Kanye he's messed up. I've been messy. No question. You're like, I don't I don't know if I'm in a position to be like, look at him.

13:25He's a mess. What is it like the sawdust in my eye and the plank in yours? I'm not trying to Kanye that, but like generally, yeah, he's a little messy right now. I was listening to Howard Stern yesterday and he broke down the whole. He's like, do you guys know about Kanye West and Pete Davidson? And he broke these for all of you out there. I don't know what this is. This is what's going on. Otherwise, I would have no clue about it. Oh, you could have asked. I can't stop watching. I found myself fascinating. I was like, God bless his heart. I'm like, the poor guy is like screenshotting text messages and putting them out there. And I'm like, they just just wrote a song. I'm not a therapist. I don't have the answers. Part of me, some therapists may say, no, that's not how this works. Part of me thinks that it depends on like the level you can hide it and like maintain, you know, like, because everybody's a little fucked up. Yeah, I think everybody's got their their stuff for sure. And there's definitely like the higher level. But it's like if Kanye was a lot quieter, you know, we wouldn't know like how messed up, you know, there could be a lot of Kanye's out there walking around and that stinks.

14:33But like, you know, I mean, I think it's the level of like, how how can you like maintain? I've had I've had plenty of times where I'm like, you're not maintaining. You're not hiding it from anybody. Well, let's get into your inner Kanye. Then I think this is a great segue. No, your inner Kanye. I'm going to need some music. The interview today is about you. And it is about I learned about you because you were following Nashville restaurant radio, whatever. And I've re-followed you. But I watched you on social media and you've got these two amazing children. Right. Right. Sweet. Ella Jane is a gene. It is a hashtag and raising Kane. Right. Those are your two children. Yeah. And I think you were working as a chef at Third and Home. Is that what it's called? Yes. That was probably when I did start following you guys. Yes. It was probably when I was at Third and Home. Yeah. You were at Third and Home and you kept putting up all these plates and it was great. And you're all this kitchen tracks and you've you seem like you're really into the culture and you got it.

15:35And then you kept working. You found another place you're working. I was like, is she working at four different places right now? Like, what is she doing? And then I reached out to you. I was like, hey, what's your story? And I was pretty fascinated from just the level at which you were executing life during a pandemic. We went downhill from there. That may have been my my my good moment there. No, I lost my kitchen. You lost your kitchen? Yeah. They shipped me out to to First Bank Amphitheater and I didn't have a kitchen for that season. So it's a lot harder to take pictures and like, you know, promote like, look at this. Yeah. We had a mobile kitchen out there. We had. Oh, I saw pictures in the storm and I'm like, how the how is she doing this? Yeah, that was you know, I I belly ached a lot, but like I miss quite a bit of that. When the season ended, the first support trip that I went on was to Baltimore Convention Center. And I got there and I was in four walls again. Yeah. And I was like, there's rules here.

16:37Like, like we're no longer feral. We're no longer living out in the woods. I was like, you need to you need to remember where you are again. This is not yours. So that was that was a weird thing to be like. I don't I don't think everybody like a thousand percent thinks to themselves like, hey, I got a roof over my head, you know, and especially not at work. You don't know what you got till it's gone. Yeah. And it was we had amazing weather. Sometimes we had a lot of rain. It had to been a record year. It just felt like I was waterlogged and cold all the time. Yeah, we had Tom Morales on the show and he owns Tom Katz Catering and he does he goes to movie sets and just sets up kitchens. And he started opening restaurants when he came back because he needed a place to train people for the real deal. He's like, what I do is the NFL. What I do when I go out to a movie set, I'm in a desert and I got to feed two thousand people. I don't have running water because that's where you have to test your chops.

17:39That's where he goes. I have people that train in restaurants and I take the best of the best to go out here. They're the pros. And what I saw you doing was very similar to that. Like you're out there with tents, just just figuring shit out. I had I had three cooks chefs that came out to to the site, which it's First Bank Amphitheater. It's at Graystone Quarry. It's all it's all chiseled out of rock. It's beautiful. It's gorgeous. It's incredible. This is not like third world country level. We had a mobile kitchen. It was a trailer. It was a shell and it was over top of the equipment itself. Everything else was a tent. And yeah, we had leaks and waterfalls and, you know, interesting things. But this was not this was not abusive. And I had three cooks chefs that had come out and they they didn't even walk inside. And they said, well, this is not what I signed up for. I wanted I thought this was a building. I thought this was something more. And I thought, well, you know, the the atmosphere and the spirit we're trying to maintain here is that we're going to feed eight thousand people out of this tent because we already have and we're going to continue to do that.

18:50And, you know, I just had a group of just resilient cooks. They hang in there with you the whole season. I can't the same five. And honestly, in every restaurant I've ever been in, I haven't stayed with with any company for a duration of probably more than eight months to a year. This being with being with Center Plate, which is now merging into Sodexo Live, being with them is the longest duration that I've stayed with the company. Now, I had my reasons for that and and what pushed me to do that. But I think the turnover rate and the culture is fairly toxic still in every restaurant or every kitchen you go in, there's your outliers. They're not like that. There's a lot that still are. And so to me, taking all monetary success and all other things aside, to me, the success was that I managed to keep these five individuals with me this entire season. So I was really, really proud of them and really happy for this.

19:50I don't know how many times I told them, I'm sorry, you didn't sign up for this. Right. You know, and I learned life skills. I learned generators and diesel and plumbing and propane, electricity. And we're we're tripping breakers. I call my dad. I call my dad. I put him on FaceTime. I said, what the fuck is an amp? How many of them are there? Like, what does this even what does this look like? What am I supposed to do? And it took like three hours for me to move furniture in our in our main concession stand. And my district manager, he's he's just like, why did it take that long? I said, because I'm not a fucking electrician. I'm pushing furniture around and I don't know really what I'm doing. You know, so it was it was crazy. And there's so many things I miss so much. I miss it now. And I know the season is coming so fast. But I there was a lot that I did love about it. Even at the time, I was, you know, fussing about it and stuff. Let's go back. Are you did you go to when did you start working in restaurant?

20:52And there's a million follow up questions from what you just now said. But that's my least favorite question. I don't even know if I really want to answer it. I think it's the best. I think it's the best answer ever, though. I think I've already asked this question. It's not long, not as long as your your average person in my position. But I've worked so, so hard to earn it. That's what I'm getting at. And I have worked and I have worked three kitchens at one time multiple times in order to learn, experience and provide for my two kids. So I don't know if I necessarily made up for lost time. But, you know, I try not to get comfortable comfortable. And someone says, you know, let's sit down and have a chat about what you could be doing. I don't want to have that chat. You know, they gave me a jacket. They can take it away. So, you know, sometimes I've had people, especially lately, are really pushing and saying, you know, you you need to be confident in what you've done and where you are.

21:58And the reason you're there isn't by accident. It's because you you earned it. You're supposed to be there. But I do want to be humble. We have a lot of assholes in this world. I don't need to be another dick that walks up and is like, you know, what's up? Like, yeah, I've got the title. Move that box for me. We don't need that. You know, we don't need that. I struggle with that, too. The balance of and we've talked about it a lot of like, I've definitely some level of like imposter syndrome of like, why am I in this room or why am I in this seat? And then Brandon or my husband will be like, because of X, Y and Z. And because you did A, B and Z, you know, and just like list off the things that I've done that like. I'm like, yeah, but I just did that because I had to. And it's like, but you didn't like you didn't have to do that. And even if you did, you still did that well. And they're really good at like kind of centering me to be like, it's OK. So I share with that a lot. And that's something I'm like actively working on as I transition my career right now to be like, no, I am capable of and deserve and valued for these things. And then these are the things I value.

22:59And I can still be humble about that and willing to learn and grow. But I definitely don't feel undeserving. And that's I think for women, especially in this industry, that's so hard because it is such a male centered space. It is. And I honestly, when I started traveling, I wasn't really a thousand percent sure what to do. I was like, I'm the only female and we're all going to a bar. Like, I wasn't really sure, like, you know, yeah, what is OK and what's not OK. If you move up fast, obviously you didn't earn it. You did something for did something. And if you don't move up fast, well, it's because you're not good enough. Yeah. You know, it's like, how do you you know, I just I want to just keep my head down and just keep doing what I'm doing. All I know how to do is what I've done. And that's put me where I am. So when I have other people that want to tell me you should change now, I'm just not I'm just not ready for that. I'm not ready. Not comfortable with that. Yeah. So that's exactly where I was going with my question as to how long you've been doing this, because I think a lot of people there's there's some prerequisite answer to that.

24:04Like I've been doing this in Nashville for twenty nine years. Me personally, I have like there's something that comes with that. Like there's there's not that's just a longevity in one industry. But for you, you haven't been doing it that long. At the beginning, let's say January 1st, 2020. Right. We're three months away from like really the pandemic starting. What were you doing? I was at a country club. I was actually switching over. I was working for Opryland Hotel. I was working there. I was working. What were you doing at the hotel? I was at Soundwaves. I was I was just a line cook. The hope and the thought when I got there was that I would help to work with the food trucks that they were going to have for Soundwaves. And I don't know, I don't know if it was pandemic. I don't know if it was just they weren't ready or they I didn't know what the situation was. But we had a pretty dead kitchen and me being there, that's not a scratch kitchen. And I just I couldn't I couldn't continue to work without feeling that I was learning something or doing something.

25:10You can only clean a kitchen so many times if you're not cooking to make it dirty again. So I want to make sure that the kitchen was clean so that, you know, I literally could say I did that. You know, I'm not sure where else to go from here. But I was working that. I was working B1281, which was Hawaiian cuisine food truck that they had outside of its bar 12 something. And I can't think what the hotel name is now. I'm assuming they finished building. I don't know. It seemed pretty extravagant. And then I was also working at the country club, Tennessee Grasslands and Gallatin. So I was working those those three together. And then that was when I kind of phased out of our hotel. That's one of those things where I worked there a few times. I started there. There are a few people there that I absolutely so respect so, so much. And there's so much about the hotel that I still really love and care about.

26:11But that was definitely one of those things where wherever I was in life, I left that in a in a situation that I could have left that in a much better way. But I didn't. I was I was exhausted. I was spread thin. And obviously I had two other jobs. And it just was a situation where I just I couldn't take anymore. You know, you kind of have a breaking point. I think everybody kind of you can have one moment, I think, in your career, your professional career, where you just kind of lose your shit. And I think you can have one after that. It'll become a habit. Yeah. Yeah. But I think one moment suggests that you probably had something going on in your personal life or professional life that just is outside of your character to behave that way. Did you have something like that going on? Yeah, it that was actually because my divorce was pretty long. It was pretty ugly. It wasn't a clean cut. You know, we first sat down to talk about it.

27:13You know, we pretty much agreed on everything except the kids. That was a fight that was that went on for quite some time. But I had that going on. And, you know, you can't you can't sit down in an attorney's office and talk about everything. And then go back to work and be 100 percent OK. Yeah, there's no way you can hide it and you cannot talk about it. And you can you can try to, you know, separate and categorize. But, you know, that was hard. And so that was just, you know, something had been mentioned to me from someone that was in upper management about it. And it hit me the wrong way. And I was exhausted. And it and the way that it ended was me walking out. So it wasn't professional. It wasn't I have since tried to apologize just to apologize. But you you seem like somebody who reflects upon things and you go back and you probably learned yourself like learned a lesson from that. Like the way that you felt like I don't want to feel that way again the way I felt after I walked out.

28:16I'm going to do things differently. Yeah, that's that's a lot of the reason why I I reached out to that particular chef twice is because I do respect him a lot. Now that I have more experiences and more time under my belt, now I can understand where he was coming from with the kitchen. But as far as personal life, I still felt it was unnecessary for him to make the comment that he did. So, you know, it's a toss up. It's like, you know, you win some, you lose some. Yeah, it's it. I would help them if they called and they asked for help with anything. I'd still go help because we're all nice of you. It is what it is. It is what it is. You know, I've seen so many chefs do complete turnovers and the staff completely turn over in all these restaurants. And that was my biggest issue was I I've got two little kids and I have to somehow balance life and work.

29:21But I have to make enough money that I can provide for them. Yeah. But, you know, your schedule typically are nights. No, it feels so impossible. It feels so impossible. I mean, I'm dealing my husband and I are still together, but we own a restaurant. So he's home on like Sunday nights and then like before they go to bed. Sometimes I get that Monday off. Yeah, the schedule is wild. So it's my mom is here to help and she's going back home soon. So it's like, God, we are looking over the calendar for this. And I'm like, I also serve at night and I just let go of a full time job. And so I'm like, how have I done this for a year and how am I going to do it going forward? It's like the time just passes. And while you're still wondering how you're going to do it, you're still doing it because there's no choice. There's no choice. Yeah. Well, that's one of the things that we were kind of talking about beforehand. I said, what do you kind of think for this interview? And I said, I want to know how she does it because she seems like such an engaged mother. Right. So I have two children. There are six and eight. And my wife is, for all intents and purposes, a full time mom.

30:21And it's hard. Like, it's hard when her only job is that, like, if she had to go work full time and it wasn't me, like just how engaged you are taking them to ball practice and planning through all of that. Yet not only doing all of that, but working in restaurant, but not working in restaurant, flourishing in a restaurant and continually moving up at the same time. That's what drew me. That's the thing that I was like, damn, like this person has drive, like this person does not give a shit and is going to go out there and take it. And I think that's that passion was awesome. And I heard that and I was like, I want to know more about this person's story. It's it's it's back and forth. Obviously. So my mom and dad, they live here. My brother, his wife and two kids, they live here. But that's it for our family here. Everybody else. They live in Michigan. Some of them have moved to Florida. So we don't have we don't really have any family here. And my brother, he's a Metro cop. He has a million different things going on with his schedule. And so them and the boys, they live in Jolton. I'm in Plaza View.

31:24It's not that far. But when your schedules are just nonstop with kids, even that distance, it makes you feel worse than if they were eight hours away. Because then you're like, you're down the road and I still I never see you. Right. You know, so my parents, you know, if it wasn't for them, you know, there's times where maybe I can't get them from school at three o'clock, but I can get them at five o'clock from my parents house. But then it's the extra that my parents do. My parents don't have to make dinner for them. You know, in fact, I kind of got into it with my mom a little bit the other day because I said, stop feeding them so much. I want them to remember that mom cooked for them in their own home and how it's like because every time you cook, we eat here and we go home and that's it. And I said, and I want that, you know, through through a divorce and separation and all these other things. I think the thing you want the most is for them to have the childhood and the safety and the reliability from you. So I grew up with my dad was home first, then followed by my mom.

32:25We had dinner, sit at the table, all of us every single night. They never took us out. They said we got food at home, you know, and and we did homework at the table. And, you know, my dad, he always cooked dinner. He was the one that was always cooking. And and now I don't understand it. We had Thanksgiving. He had to tell me all about how he made his turkey and his stuffing. I was like, Dad, I don't care. I said, I've been eating this shit for my entire life. I was like, it tastes delicious. It tastes the same as it always has. I was like, it's free food. I didn't have to cook. I was like, the fact that you guys don't twist my arm to bring food, but they they do so much that they don't have to do. But, you know, I get up and it's like, get them to school, get to work. And if I lose 25 minutes, I get frustrated because I'm like, that's 25 minutes that I worked so hard at home, getting these two little humans to school so that I can have that 25 minutes.

33:27No, I don't have it. So I get upset about small things that I probably shouldn't, that I'm still learning how to let like little things go like that. But it's like, drop them off, work, get back, pick them up, because everything, even if my parents have them, it's like I should have them. I don't need my parents raising my children. Do you feel like a guilt about that? Yes and no. When when I was working three kitchens, then it was hard because it was like, you can only work so many hours in a day. So the days I had them, I wanted to make sure those were shorter days so I get to them. And if that means the days I don't have them are much longer, that's OK, because as long as I'm getting the work done and it's not hurting them. And that was a there was a really rough patch in that first separation where I don't think their dad fully was aware of watching and thinking ahead to prevent things from happening and accidents and things like that.

34:42And I think that their dad just had a little bit of a learning curve. And during that learning curve, you know, that was really difficult because they ended up staying with us more. And then I really got in a jam where I was like, you know, there it's nonstop, nonstop with the kids and I got to make sure and someone's suffering no matter what. You know, in our pediatrician, she's she's wonderful. And she talked to us, talked to me one day. She said, you know, you're you're going to suffer somewhere no matter what you're going to suffer as a parent or you're going to suffer at work. It's never going to be 100 percent. If it is, you can't you can't cling to that for very long. So now I still do the same thing. I found myself where if it's a day that I have the kids, I need to pick them up from school. I need to give them that dinner on the table playground. We're going to softball baseball. We're running. We're doing all the things I know now. Like, enjoy that. Don't feel bad about that shorter day, because the next day when I don't have them, I know I'm going to work all day, all night.

35:46And it's you know, I hope at the end, I hope when when everybody's grown up and we're all sitting around talking about it, I hope I hope that they see that like you didn't deviate like you left because you wanted you didn't want to live in a shadow. You wanted to know what talents God has given you and how you can use those. And you figured it out and you ran with it. And that was it. That was the goal. The goal was to find your talent and to take care of your kids. And I hope they see that, you know, I guarantee you they will. Yeah, I mean, that's yeah. No, I think pretty powerful what you're saying. And just to make you feel a little better. I did hear on a different podcast that like the average working mother now spends like 80 percent more effort and energy into being with her kids than they did back in like, I don't know, I guess when we were growing up and definitely when you were growing up, I was a stay at home mom until I started working. I mean, if you do the timeline, you can figure out when I started cooking. So it wasn't long before the pandemic.

36:46And then that's what I'm saying. So you when do you I'll go back. My question is, when do you take time for yourself? Do you have like an hour or two that you're able to like meditate or just like go for a walk or go to the gym? Like, what do you do? What do you do for you? Clearly, it's been a minute since I've gone to the gym. It's I still pay that membership or an orange theory is still texting me going, thank you so much. We have your receipt. And I'm like, wonderful. So, yeah, I don't I don't know if it's I don't have time or I don't know how to have time. I don't know what the answer to that is. I feel like I don't have time because I don't go to the gym anymore. Gym was something really important to me during the off season. Usually I go to the gym so that I'm ready for the season because there's a lot of labor intensive stuff, you know, but I don't even do that anymore. I don't know. It's so hard. It's so hard. I mean, I like my mom being here right now.

37:48She's like, why don't you go and like see your friends? And I'm like, I have friends right outside of Brandon. I have friends, but I don't see any of them. They all have kids, too, or they all have jobs. They're all in restaurants. The hours are all different. And so I'm like, I can go sit by myself at a bar. I'm definitely not afraid to like eat by myself or drink by myself or whatever. Like I can do that and feel comfortable. But I don't want to either because I definitely always have that mom guilt of like, OK, but I could be making the Valentine for you and for daddy or you know what I mean? Like there's always something else I could be doing. And so I have to. So what I found for myself is like I my kids are only now a year. Right. And my body feels like my own again. That took for so long. I did not know how long that was going to take. And I'm like, now it's closed for me. And I'm like, oh, I can get dressed and kind of like feel like myself again. Or if I'm on like TikTok for too long at night, I'll like set a timer so that I'm like, OK, five more minutes and then I'll turn it off. And well, I turn work into that time.

38:48You know, like I think that's one of the things that I'm pretty sure you're going to agree with me that when I enjoy spending time with the kids and family and I love doing all this stuff, but there's a level of work that it takes. It's hard work to do that. And I love doing it. There's so much fun playing baseball. And but there's this there's a hectic level of anxiety of everybody being OK. And then one kid's angry because you won't let him play this. You're like, just I just please stop. But when I go to work, like when I get to work, that's kind of my place. I can go there and I it is my my time when I'm there. I enjoy what I do. I really like your job. I like that's another conversation for this. Well, no, I mean, she likes doing this too. I like this idea. But there's there's a whole side of going to work and loving what you do, especially when you're constantly moving up and you're constantly learning things and you're developing new things like that can be an escape from your every day from the normal stress of your normal life.

39:51People turn to that, like jump into that and almost feel like, is that something that you do? You're like, I'm just going to put all into work because when I'm here, I get to be somebody completely different. And it fills my cup. Yeah, there's definitely there's definitely, you know, mom and then there's chef. There's definitely a difference there. I think when I was I think that's one of the struggle I'm having right now is that most of my work right now is just paperwork. It's just getting all the organization done a thousand percent the way it needs to be. And those projects aren't as fast as slinging a sandwich. You don't you don't have that immediate satisfaction of look at that, guys. Look what I made. You know, you don't have that. And I'm more hands on. So it's definitely I I like to have that immediate reward and satisfaction from it. That's why I wash my car three times a week, by the way. Yeah, he does. He feels like that instant gratification.

40:52Don't ever let him in your car. Like I'm telling he says he's not judging it. I do. Yeah. Anyway. Hence the question, what are you driving? Where are you? Never. The Nashville local gets lost finding the local radio station. We're kind of in a little hobbit hole down here. We're hiding. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Yeah. But yeah, I think that I think that, yes, I do have the my time, but there's always what about this, what about this, what about that? You know, you have your slight interruptions, but it's like, you know, I do. I I love my job so much. I think my my family has a little bit of struggle still in understanding. Like, you know, you work so many hours, you work every day. You just I'm like, well, one, it kind of takes that if you want to keep growing and keep moving. But if you love it and it's your hobby, as much as it's work, you care about something that much, then, you know, it's not that bad.

41:55No, it's what they say. Find something you love doing and never work a day in your life. Yeah, I'm I'm kind of on the opposite end of that. I feel like I'm like trying and mentally to to not be in like hustle culture right now, because I feel like I was so much in the last year. Like I was working an insane amount, too. And my kids were born essentially. They were born in December 2020. And so it was just in my it was just a lot last year. And so this year, like I said, I just left a job and I got offered another one and I didn't take it because I just I was like, no, I just feel like it's going to take time away from the kids in a way that doesn't feel valuable to me. And so what I'm going to do, I want to feel has that value for it. So I'm like, I mean, like, no, bitch, let's be picky. Like, I'm going to be picky about who gets my time, who earns it, who I give it to. Like, I just want to be really intentional with that because I wasn't. And and that burned me out. Like, it burned me out for sure. I think that's kind of I'm kind of in that place, kind of in a weird place right now.

42:58But but part of that is not wanting to I'm kind of kind of going in the opposite direction. I think I'm supposed to instead of just kind of backing up and saying, you know, I need space. Now I find myself almost pushing away. Sure. Which is weird because it's going back to Kanye and how well he hides things. We were going to get back. Yeah. Well, you got to just throw his name out from time to time to keep people interested. You know, it depends on how well you can hide things. I think at times I hide it better that I'm not completely satisfied. And then other times I honestly am. It's a weird thing. It's you know, I think it was the second or third to last concert last season where I picked my head up and I stopped just jogging from place to place and try.

44:02You're a restaurant chef and all of a sudden they give you one hundred fifty acres and they say you can't touch anything. It's all got to be there. You got to make sure it all looks right. You got to make sure it tastes right. You can't touch it. You can't be at the pass getting ready to send that out every single plate. And that is the stuff for someone that's a control freak. That is the worst. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not kidding. Like, what do you mean? You have acres. You can't touch it. Like, what do you know? Like, so I thought, you know, I can't I can't go to every concession stand. Yeah, she can't touch every part. She can't you a garnish it. Garnish it. Say that'll do. Yeah. Or, you know, I want to refire. That one's not pretty. Yeah. You know, you just have to train and trust and trust. And, you know, for me, anybody that's in my kitchen and trust like that to tease to success. Train them and trust them. Train them and trust them. Some of the people that they train, they don't trust. Or they don't train and they blindly trust. That too. Anyway, so you're training and trust people. You're prepping this food. You're creating it.

45:03You're sending it out to different concession stands and then they're selling it. Yeah. And you're just hoping that they see your vision and that they execute at a high level. Yeah. And it's, you know, I want them to care enough about me and know I care enough about them that they would look at whatever they're passing through that window and say, like, I feel kind of bad. I don't think Chef would really like that. Let me, you know, not everybody's going to be like that. But, you know, I've had a lot of like not nice things happen to me in kitchens. And I want I want my cooks and my staff to be able to like come to me and I have the answer. And I'm not going to make a scene. I'm not going to embarrass anybody. If you don't know, you don't know. You can't know. You know, let me teach you. Then you know for the future. And, you know, I want to work with them and I want to give them the best life I can. If I can pay my cooks a little extra per hour, maybe I make a little bit less. But if I can make if I can give them a little bit extra and they can work one job and see their families where I couldn't in some of the other situations I was in, I want to take care of those people so that it comes full circle and they can take care of me, too.

46:14And it's you know, there could be a critic out there that says, oh, so you're just in it for what's in it for you. No, I know that I've been through some shit. I know that I've been shit on a lot. And I'm going to give out the goodness of my heart and want to take care of people. Now, if you want to call that gaslighting, if you want to say that's me being untruthful or I'm just trying to get what I want. No, I genuinely I want you to have a good life. You'd have a better life than me. I want to promote you. I lost a job because of one of the chefs that works with me. She she came in as a cook. I wanted to help her. She was another female. She wants to be a chef. She's struggling. She needs more work, more income. And I tried to help her. And that other restaurant let me go and said that I was, you know, interfering and I was taking her hours away. But I built her schedule around their schedule. And I said, you can say whatever you want, but this person needed a car. And I wanted to give her hours so she could earn that car.

47:16Sure. You know, she's a sous chef now. So I look at that like, you know, I would do it again. I don't care. But that's real leadership. I mean, that's real leadership, caring about the people that depend on you, you know, leading people to make them better. I always want to find my replacement. I want to hire really, really talented people because, gosh, I want I want I want to help people do better in life, like all the way around. And if I'm in it because you're here to serve me, that's that's that's not the right attitude. It's also bad karma. You know, as far as all that goes, like you're like, some people may say, I hope nobody's saying that. They sound like assholes. Like, yeah, you know, like the karma of like, yeah, you treated those people well. And it obviously did work for you because you did get to keep your five lines. Like, that's incredible. That's great, especially in the economy we're in, where jobs are everywhere. People are not. Yeah. And I think it's sad that if I try to do something nice, the initial reaction is it's a joke.

48:21Like, is this like disappointing? Yeah, like, like we need to get back to where we're just taking care of each other and and trying to. Kindness is like you just need to be kind to people. I mean, I yeah, maybe. Sytex is celebrating 60 years of service. Check out their video on their YouTube page. Just go to YouTube and click Sytex and don't forget to subscribe. But you can watch videos there. They have a brand new virtual tour of their entire facility. It is so cool if you've ever wondered what the inside of a linen facility look like. And I am the kind of guy that likes to see that it is available for you right now. It is a full on immersive experience. You can also find out what their company is about. And it is everything that we stand for here. They are a family owned and operated company. They care about partnering with you. They're not just some company that's renting you linens. They care about your business, which is why I use them in both of the restaurants.

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51:28Maybe I've been walked over a couple of times, but overall I think you know the difference. I think you know when someone's using you and taking advantage and when someone appreciates it and is grateful for that, you know? Well, and I'd rather be wrong about that than the other way. I'd rather be like, oh damn, I was kind and you took advantage of that and that says more about you than me. And so I'm okay with that. I'd rather be wrong that way than be an asshole all the time. And that person really was just trying to be nice. It's a weird thing. It's just like this generational gap. We're somewhere between like, I know I looked at you, Brennan. I did too, your friend. It's not that you're old. I have a full gray beard. I called him old a lot and yesterday he called me old, so he's fine. I embrace my age. I lied about my age until I turned 30. I told people I was 30 when I was like 25 because I'm a giant. And everywhere I was, I always had friends who are older. I've been a manager. I've had a manager in my title since I was 22.

52:34And so people are like, you're just a young book. I'm like, I'm 27. I'm like, oh, okay. And then when I was like, when I finally turned 30, I was like, holy shit, I can actually tell people I'm 30. And they're like, oh, okay. It's like if you're 40, you must know what you're doing. But I'm like, excuse me, you know, 35, my knees hurt, my back hurts. I know as much as you do in your extra five years, you know, you're going to die first. Why are you like throwing stones at me? Meanwhile, I make like a teen mom joke all the time. I'm like, certainly not a teen mom. I'm definitely 31. I dropped my kids off the other day and I was sitting here. Definitely not. I can literally make the joke. I'm like, I'm basically a teen mom is fine. Yeah, I was sitting in my car and I saw this with this girl walk by and like I'm typically not very judgy. Like, like, oh, I don't know what you're getting ready to do or what you're thinking. You know, she went by and like sweatpants and Nikes and I don't know. It's just for some reason I looked up and I thought like, like, girl, you're not 30.

53:34And then I looked down and I'm like, girl, you're wearing Nikes and sweatpants dropping the kids off. And you're not 30 either. So, yeah, it's I don't know. I don't even know where we're going with this. Back to Kanye. Yeah, it's interesting because you learn some lessons. You learn some lessons throughout kitchens that were not good. And I think that one of the things that we want to dispel is we want. I want to help people. Right. So I want to want chefs to hear. I think some people don't know they're doing the wrong thing. Genuinely, I'm not saying that I'm not excusing anybody's behavior or gaslight. I'm just saying, I think sometimes people are assholes like that and it's part of their culture. I think some people are like that and they don't know they don't recognize what they're doing. Right. So when you come on and you say, I've been through some shit, I've seen some shit. This has happened in the kitchen. I think it's important to talk about those things because you saying it right now with the chefs listening going, oh, shit, I do that. You mean people take that that way?

54:36That's not good. Like, yeah, it's not good. Don't do that shit. So I think so. I think a couple of things at one time. So let us have it. You have this like really dry, not southern hospitality type character that comes from northern chefs. I'm not going to say Yankees, but California, too. There is there's this like sort of it's different. Yeah, it's and it's and you have to be mature enough and understanding enough to say like it's a different culture. You're not being a jerk. You're just cutting dry. You're not extra friendly. You know, you're not you're not like, you know, being super sweet about it and like shooting the breeze. You just cut and dry direct. Let's get to the chase. And then I've had chefs that have thrown saute pans at me and punched walls next to me and kicked chairs and literally been even like I was on saute one day.

55:41Chef gets mad at my grill guy, throw something at the grill guy and it ricochets and hits me. And I'm like, come on, man. I'm like, I'm just I'm out of my own business. I'm over here on saute. You know, so I know that that is inexcusable. You know, and I think that you have this bulk, this core group of chefs that are sadly seems like the ones that have the most talent, the most creativity that are the true romantics are toxic as fuck. And they have this creative genius. But it comes with this temper and this look at me and I need the drama and I need to make a scene and I need to be heard and I need this loud, explosive moment. And then 20 minutes later, they're sitting in their office, kicked back and they're enjoying it. And they're just like, oh, yeah, things got wild, huh?

56:42Like, yeah, about the time you fucking threw something at me. Yeah. You know, and how do we how do we train a new culture to say reign that in? You know, you don't have to be so abusive, whether that's verbally, physically, you know, whatever. You don't have to be that way to still be successful. Do you think glorifying people like Gordon Ramsay on a show where he's are you absolutely stupid? Like where he's yelling at people on TV in Hell's Kitchen, just berating people. And we're making that an interesting show and people laugh at it. Do you think that that is that's an interesting question, but it's tough for me because I love him. But I also think that that is his I really believe that's his TV persona. Like after having some I know I've heard it is. Yeah, no, no, I hear you like that idea. I think that's OK. I don't know. I mean, yeah, I can see where you're coming from and I can see that I. I'm just going to ask none of the chefs you're talking about that you've worked in that have those environments and none of the chefs I've worked in that have those kind of environments.

57:48They're all men, right? So they are. I was so but I definitely not. I'm not. But I'm not pushing that direction. No, no, I hear you. I will. I think so much of it is I think men and listen, I'm like kind of on an anti man train right now. I literally said that's my husband. I said it to him like I'm not. I love men. They're great. But I think men have a hard time being questioned in a way that women are always questioned. What are you trying to say? There you go. I disagree only because I can use myself as an example. I I know I have a temper. Sure. I know that I can I can go zero to 100 really quickly depending on which trigger you pull. You know, yeah, there's only there's only a couple things. If you talk about my work ethic or, you know, my honesty and my character, if you talk about that in a negative way or you talk about me as a mother.

58:52Sure. Work ethic and mom. It's pretty much all I have some non-negotiables you have. Yeah. So if you if you if you poke at either one of those, then I'm fairly unhappy. Sure. But I have had my own moments where I just have been so spread thin and so exhausted. And and you do something in it. And for me, when I've had I've had these explosive moments a couple of times. Have I ever thrown something at anybody? No, never. Right. Have I ever gotten anyone's face and custom out and told them that they were an idiot sandwich or whatever? You know, Gordon Ramsay says, no, I've never done those things. Have I lost my shit? Have I? I mean, I think that's different, though. I think losing your cool and as as a person in charge, you are just emotionally abusive or physically or whatever is a different thing. Like, I think everyone's everyone's human. Everyone's allowed to mess up and lose their cool. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

59:52Right. But I think the like the I worked for a chef once that he collected any glassware. That somebody broke over the course of like a week or two. And then he laid it all on the floor and called line up. And we had to walk around broken shards of glass. And he said, all of this is what you guys have cost me. It was a whole thing. Right. And then the next day, he yelled at all of us, like during service on the line so much that the owner stepped in and like fired him that day. And that guy, that was just who he was. That wasn't him like losing his cool. That's just who he was. And he came from like a really, really big name restaurant in Chicago, probably the biggest named restaurant in Chicago. And he just felt like that's what I'm allowed to do this. And I'm like, who feels they're allowed to do that? They're like that to me is a personality disorder versus like I lost my shit. Was he older? No. Well, a little bit me, obviously. But like, yeah, he's like, I think that I think that comes back from that generation generation.

01:00:54I think some of it is generational. I do think some of it is also just not learning. And I think that happens from a young age. And we're parented differently now and all that. And we parent differently. But I do think some of it is just like, I mean, men, I just think men deal with things differently than women. I also don't think women are perfect most though. But I, I just think everyone would also benefit from therapy. I'm like, I'm like the biggest proponent of like, understand yourself, learn yourself better so you can do better. That is now I support that a thousand percent learning yourself. And like, I know now I I know myself. I know what I'm like. You need to just you need to put the phone down and cut the shit. Well, all of that comes from experience. Yeah, it comes from touching a hot stove and it burning you and you saying, holy shit, I'm not going to do that again. Yeah, I remember I was in the restaurant one day and I'm the boss. Right. I'm in the restaurant and I was eating dinner with my family and I was at a table. Table in the restaurant that I like to sit at that I can't see the restaurant because I can't do that.

01:01:55I can't eat in a restaurant that I also work in and not get up and like just to go do stuff. So I was in a seat where I couldn't see and I got up and I turned around and I noticed there was nine dirty tables. That's my big thing. Like, dude, we've you cannot. And I look over at the service station, I see two servers talking and they're both on their phone. And I look up, I see nine dirty tables and I went, oh, hell no. And I got up and I walked in the kitchen and I went, what in the fuck is and I just started screaming. Right. Because there's people every standing around congregating around service stations. The manager is sitting in the office. There's nine dirty tables. And this is not the type of restaurant I want to run. And I started screaming and I lost my I wanted every person in that building to stop what they were doing and get their ass in gear. And the next day, like four people quit. Next day, like four people were like, I'm not working in that environment. I had a bartender quit. I walked up to the bar. There was like just crap all over the bar. And I'm like, what are you guys doing?

01:02:56And I I had to go back the next day and have a bunch of one on one conversations. Or I said, I am sorry about me losing my cool. That was not ever OK. But let me also tell you that nine dirty tables in the restaurant is unacceptable. Yeah, this is not OK. What happened? It's it's you got to you have to find that that really golden place where it's like. You know, do not forget that you're here because I asked you to be here. I asked you to work with me. I want to have a solid relationship. But you're also a reflection of the company and the standards. And, you know, when I used to say this all the time, when I would get new cooks that were working with me and I'd be like, you know, if I'd see something, I'd be like, if your grandmother was sitting out there, would you give her that great way to like, would you do that? And then, you know, other stuff like, you know, your children.

01:03:57You know, if there's something that is lacking in that way, it's like I try to make it more personal to say, like, think about it. You know, that was something that when I worked at Opryland Hotel, I was a prep cook out there and that was I started because of Country Christmas. I thought I got I was like, man, I nailed that interview. Like, I've never been in a kitchen before and they just hired me. And then I was like, they just needed a warm body. It's Country Christmas and they're about to get their asses handed to them. You know, so I was like, you know, it's November 1st and November 11th was when I actually started. And so a lot of people have this mentality like if you're making these huge lexans, just gallons of this crap, whatever it is, no one's going to notice if you don't do it exactly as the recipe says or if you don't taste it. And I'm like, but eventually we break that down into a single bite that they look at on their spoon or whatever, and then they're going to try it.

01:04:59And is it as good that bite as the one that's still back in the bucket? Like, you know, for lack of better terms, like, you know, you have to think about the quality. And that was something that when I took this executive position with First Bank Amphitheater, I just I said, how, how are we feeding this many people? We still have quality and integrity. And this food is still elevated. This is still this is not cheese with, you know, how do how do we maintain that? And I think that I finally just kind of fell into this this place with this company where I had direct support the way that I needed that helped me to to grow. And it allowed me, you know, that my my direct chef that I work for, he he supported me even in the times when I've I've been at my breaking point. I don't I don't know how else to keep doing this. I've thought I have given him my two weeks before.

01:06:02He texts me the next morning. Hey, I'll be over at this time with this. And I'm like, I thought I quit. I thought that's what we talked about last night. He's like, no, no, no, you're not quitting. We're just no, I'll be there at 11 o'clock with brisket. You know, and so it's like, you know, I'm very fortunate because I can I can be told, you know, sure, be humble, but, you know, own what you've earned. I can own that. But if I hadn't been put exactly with the correct people, you know, maybe I'm still bouncing around restaurant to restaurant. So, you know, but I was beating my head against the wall and never coming out ahead. And you got to work three jobs to take care of your kids. I mean, when I started that country club in the beginning of a pandemic, I couldn't get the hours. I couldn't get the pay. And then I ended up back in Nashville from Gallatin, and I end up in fine dining restaurants and I'm averaging 18 and a half hours a week. And you just can't take care of two children with that.

01:07:03So it's the pandemic has added this whole new level of weird of, you know, some of the stuff that I'm learning, I'm learning pandemic style, you know, and then some of it I'm learning that I learned just before the pandemic. And so it's a weird, it's a weird place that everything is at right now. So, wow, we went from November 11th, 2019, I think is the day. Did we figure that out by math? The day you started working at our plane, your first restaurant job? It's possible. November the 11th. What did you do? Did you get on Facebook? No, you just follow the conversation. He just follows. You just said November the 1st, I got hired November 11th was my first day. And you said you started off with that. I was like, well, that's your first job. So then November 11th, 2019, we get into the pandemic. And you just putting a bow on this story right now. He's like, I have to put an end to this. Well, no, I think we're going to circle back around because you've you've hustled.

01:08:07You've went through a really tough divorce. You changed careers like, hey, I'm going to be a chef. You started working here and you learned trial by fire. You didn't go to culinary school, but you knew what you wanted and you attacked it. And you did it really, really well. You did it with integrity. You did it with I'm a badass and I'm not going to accept mediocrity, which is something that so many people do. You didn't accept mediocrity. You kept pushing. You kept pushing. You're the executive chef at the First Bank Amphitheater. And you're working with people that you enjoy working with. You're leading a team of people. Now you're two years later. You're leading teams of people like. Do you ever look back on yourself during that time and go, holy shit, like. How did I get here and where do you want to go now? What's next for you? I mean, did you reach your pinnacle or do you want to? You want to go around the world like where are you? What are you doing? I mean, first and foremost is, you know, the chaos that we had from our our first season at the amphitheater.

01:09:15I want to take all that chaos out. I literally my goal for my cooks was we're going to have one organized day, one event day that we don't have just absurd amounts of chaos. And we landed on it second to last concert of the season. And that was that was the one that I think that I finally looked up. And and I thought, you know, this place is amazing when it's up and running. You know, because it was it's it's weird. It's a learning curve. Our client is it's very unique. They're they probably own this. And, you know, if you an outsider can look at it and say it's just a bougie thing with some picky, you know, clients. Now, when you look at what they've built together, when you look at their wedding venue and then you look at the detail of that, you look at the the quality they expect because it goes back to this is a reflection of them.

01:10:15And so you look at that, I have nothing but respect for my clients and absolutely want to give everything I can to them. They give to charity. They give back. And they've said their thank yous to me. And, you know, they've done nice things to show me that, like, they're glad that I'm there. You know, and as long as I have that, you know, maybe maybe the company gives me another property or they want to do something different. But I'll be damned if they take that amphitheater away from me anytime soon. That's to watch the shows. Do you get to are you in a place where you can get outside? Do you get to hear the shows? Do you get to see them at all? So you go backstage and meet all the celebrities? No, I mean, I have an all access pass, but really, like, I just want to do a good job. It really is what it is. I if I don't work every second of every day and then something happens and then they go on May 2nd, you didn't work 18 hours that day.

01:11:15That's probably where your hiccup was. You know, I don't want to go back. I don't want to do that. So when I have these events, I I don't I don't slow down very much because they've hired me to do they haven't hired me to go watch these shows. And I don't want to take advantage of it. You know, now, you know, I don't know. I hope I hope my my children will come out this season and watch for King and Country because a lot of their music. It was a couple songs hit really close to home from when I first went through that separation. And now looking back, I'm like, holy hell, like music and sports are such a huge part of my upbringing. My parents, they played on the Grand Ole Opry. They did these things. Music was a huge thing. So to come full circle and to bring my kids to an amphitheater that I'm the executive chef of and and let them hear a band that helped me kind of cope and survive and do these things, you know, it's really important to me. But same time, you know, I don't really want to get too wrapped up in those emotions and and opening that up.

01:12:21You know, I just I'd like my kids to be able to come out and see that. And other than that, it's, you know, it's my job to do my job. It's not my job to be another, you know, super fan or something like that. That's a very mature way to look at it. I don't know if I could do. I'd want to be like, oh, my God, I want to go see this band play just for five minutes or something. I mean, I'm just I'm I'm like a terrible employee. Yeah, that's why you have your own little closet now. This is what has landed you. No, I don't know. Maybe I don't know how to like to enjoy things anymore. I don't I don't know. I really think that I'm in a weird place right now where I don't I don't really know how to to accept kindness and nice gestures and stuff. I don't really know how to how to do that anymore. And instead of like going to therapy or being like Kanye and texting everything, I'm tweeting it all. I'm just kind of like, you know, let's just work harder.

01:13:22Well, you may not. This might get weird. So I apologize. But I I just want to say and you don't have to accept it. You don't have to receive it. Any of that. I just want to say, I think you are very deserving of all good things. You are clearly a good person. And for just having met you as mother to mother and worker, be to worker, be like, I'm fucking proud of you. And I hope you are, too, and that you take a moment to just sit with that. Not from me, just from yourself. Like, I hope you can tell yourself that because you you are very deserving. And that's really clear. So thank you so much for that, of course. Yeah, I guess I just I don't want to ever. I don't want to ever get to too big for myself. I don't want to ever look back and say that I didn't have a moment that I was an asshole or look back and say, you know, I didn't have moments where I broke down or, you know, mental health, nobody, nobody talks about it. Everybody talks about it, you know. We're trying to talk about it. Yeah.

01:14:23You know, there's a book I'm not I. There's a book I'm almost done with, and I've been talking about it. Last few episodes, the Brene Brown Atlas of the Heart. Do you know who Brene Brown is? She's a she's a author and a researcher. She's amazing. She wrote a book called Atlas of the Heart, and it's literally like two hundred ninety pages of emotions and feelings. Now, as I say, emotions and feelings is kind of tough to read. But what it does is she said she interviewed like twenty five thousand people and they said, write down all of the emotions and feelings, you know, like ninety four percent of people put happy, mad, sad, but that was the emotions that they understood. So this whole book is a places we go when we feel hurt and then it explains every different emotion that you feel when you're hurt. Places we go when we're happy. What awe and wonder is, what anguish is, what sadness is. And it breaks down all those different things so that when you have that feeling because me, I was an alcoholic for so many years. I have no idea. I didn't feel I didn't feel anything.

01:15:23I just fucking I put my head down. I put my head down. I'm a man. I do it. I put my head down. I didn't do anything. And I would just drink at night and just numb that shit down. So me, I didn't I'm learning emotions and I'm learning feelings. So this book has been so eye opening for me, but it's really, really, really good. And it came out on audiobook February 14th. Well, if you work until you're so tired, you don't feel anything. Same thing. What's what's a it's a worse evil, but what's the worst? It's an addiction, too. I mean, I am the opposite of that. I like feel everything like I feel every single day. Yeah, I feel every emotion throughout the day. I feel forty thousand of them. If you ask me how my day is, and you're going to get a different answer at nine a.m. and eleven p.m. and like like truly my I feel everything to my. And that's I like to think of it as a superpower now. But it took me a very long time to feel that way because I also have anxiety. So I like makeup scenarios before they happen. And my therapist and I work on that a lot. Easy. And but my husband is also an addict.

01:16:25And he is also learning how to feel things in a way that he didn't for so long. And so I can't remember what I think we were talking about, my job transition. And I was like, yeah, I just feel this way about it. And he was like, how do you know you feel that way? And I was like, because I what are you talking about? And he was like, I just don't think I would understand that feeling without taking long. It takes him a different amount of time to get there where like he has to relate it to other things. And it's so and he struggles with it still. It's still something that we he's newly sober. I think I think part of part of being a good a good leader or being responsible with your manager position. I we were we were opening a venue is brand new and it was just organized chaos at its maximum. And this guy this guy's a pastry chef. You don't fuck up with a pastry chef like that's science.

01:17:26You keep those people. They get like edible arrangements like like you don't mess with pastry chefs. And that's the pinnacle right there. If I get an edible arrangement, I did something right. Yeah, there you go. And so I don't know. I popped in my head about has a but like this guy was on his fourth mental breakdown doing dishes because they didn't have a steward and they pulled him in to help. And he said, yeah, I'll come help. And you're thinking like I'm a pastry chef. You're not going to make me mad. You know, and this guy's on dishes. And I see this guy having his like fourth mental breakdown. And I'm like, I've been there. I've been so stuck in my head just doing the same garbage over and over and over. And no one sees you, hears you. And I said, just go get a bottle of water. I can do dishes too. I have two hands. I can do it. He's like, no, you have a white jacket on. And I said, then with my white jacket, I'm going to tell you to go get me bottle of water too. So leave. And if you can recognize when someone is so damn stuck in their head and you can in a healthy way say, I do see you.

01:18:32I do hear you. And you got it. You can't butt into everybody's personal life, but you have to somehow be genuine and actually care about them. We can't we can't say, oh, I care. I hope you're OK. You're having a bad day. No, like some of these people, this is the very last thought process of this is never going to change for me. I never have anywhere to go. And when I have dishwashers that come in, I say, if you want to be a dishwasher, rest your life. I'm on board. That's great. If you want to be something more, I'm on board. Let's go. Let's do it. Yeah. And it was the chances given to me and the support given to me that got me where I was. So it wasn't all me. I carried a notebook everywhere, took notes, good, bad, ugly. I took a million pictures of everything that I needed to do and what it should look like and studied that at home.

01:19:35And, you know, that's that's the culinary education I got was in a kitchen. And part of me has even considered like maybe you need to get to go to culinary school and roll in off season and just just to have it. I mean, I don't know how many places that I've gone. The first thing out of their mouth is where did you get your degree from? Like, oh, a university. Hard knock. No, I have a I have a four year college degree and it doesn't mean anything. You know, I was going to say nobody ever asks me. I have a four year degree. Nobody gives you. Nobody cares. They're like, well, that's OK. Where have you worked? Right. Yeah. But for me, with like with mental health and all these things, it's like you can. You know, you're told when you put that white jacket on, suppress it all. You don't need to be angry. You don't need to cry. You don't need to be sad. You need to be reliable in the way that you behave with staff.

01:20:38And I agree with that. I think your staff needs to be able to come in and their day is not dependent on your mood. I've had places I walk into and you're on eggshells and you're like, oh, what kind of mood are we in today? Oh, fuck. We're in that mood. You know, and that's I'm not about that. I want my staff to wake up in the morning and not get sick to their stomach because they're going to work where they needed it, where they have to go. And but I think after years of it, you start to run out of endurance to pick yourself up because you're a human and it's well. And the last you get to go find if that's your you feel that way, go find that's not every kitchen. That's not everywhere. Go find another place. Well, in the last the last week that I that we had last week, last concert we had over there was actually the day that I truly signed the paperwork for our divorce. And I left work and when I sat down with conversations that I didn't think we were ever going to have, I thought this was a done deal.

01:21:43I thought this was like literally sign it and it's and it's done. And it wasn't that. In fact, it was much worse on my behalf. And so the next day I text one of my one of my cooks that was had opened the kitchen and I said, give me just a couple more hours. She was like, OK, you know, so I took a couple more hours and all I did was drive a little bit more and sit in my car a little bit longer. And then I went to work and I was like, this is it. Now, I was far more emotional this this year than I ever intended on being. Damn, I don't think I went more than two concerts without either tearing up or finding a place. You know, like it was because I wanted so badly to do well and to be excellent and to I pick things up and I and I go quick. And I wanted that so badly. And this was such a bigger picture. And this was not one person was going to save the day.

01:22:45This was everybody was going to save the day one way or another. And as we got towards the end of the season, I thought, you know, I felt the need to like tell one of the chefs that was a mentor to me that is a boss. At some point, you know, this is actually kind of what happened. So I'm usually not this emotional and I want you to know that, know that like my character is stronger than this. And I said that and then I thought about it for like a couple of weeks after and I was like. Fucking went through like some bad stuff that I never really got a chance to heal from. Yeah, I kept trying to like replace it with work, replace it with the kids, replace it with whatever. And so now, you know, we're getting ready to open the season again. And I'm I'm so excited for those concert sunsets and, you know, and everything that entails. And I'm so excited about this menu. And I freaking love food so much. I love taking care of people. And it's the only thing that really was like I know I'm a good mom.

01:23:48I know because I care. And I hope that with caring and loving and being there as much as I can that I end up raising, you know, really exceptional humans that will find something that they really enjoy, that they're good at, whether that includes college or not. And that ultimately they take care of other people and those people take care of them. But, you know, work right now is the only thing I feel I have going for me. So as we go into this next season, I already feel myself kind of getting pulled back into that circle. So when we talk about like, like feelings and, you know, emotions, I'm like, no, we've got to like lock that up or I'm going to lose it again. You know, it's tough. It's tough when you have a white jacket, I guess. I think it's tough to be human. I really do. I think it's just a hard thing. I am not good at it. To be a human. I think you're great at it. I think this is all stuff that we that everyone feels. I mean, off camera, I'll tell you about my year and it was painful.

01:24:51It was so painful. It was the hardest thing I've ever gone through and I didn't expect to go through it. And and I can't tell you how many times I so Brandon and I formerly worked together. That's how we met. And I can't tell you how many times I just went to the office, just texted him like, Hey, are you there? And showed up no makeup on like fully messy outfit and just sobbed because I was like, I just I'm going to break like I'm at the point. I'm going to break. This is my breaking point. You would be like, what do you need? And my husband, what do you need? My mother, what do you need? And just knowing like, I hope I want if you don't have those people, if you don't have somebody that says, what do you need? You do now. Just text. I'll give you my number. Just text me. What do you need? Like, I recognize that I can't be of service to everybody if I'm of service to everybody. But I like I said, mother to mother, it is fucking hard out there. It's hard just to be a person and to live through a pandemic that we all went through differently. We were all in the struggle, but all of those struggles look different. And a lot of us, you and myself for sure had things come up that we didn't anticipate coming up in addition to a global pandemic.

01:25:55And we got through it and maybe not as gracefully as others would have. But we did. Right. Well, you know, like right now, the relationship that I have with our dad, he's like we get along great. We go to sporting events. We communicate great. You know, everything's fine. He has a girlfriend. They've been together a long time. And, you know, she takes care of them like you can't ask for anything more than a genuinely good human to take care of your children. And you're not there like to have someone that is like, hey, I thought they might like this snack. You don't know how far that really goes because I'm not there. I can't pick out their favorite snack. It's the most important, you know. Yeah. And so I'm told so often like you're blessed like you've got to see where the blessings are. But I'm like, I see them. But for some reason, I want something more for myself. I want something different. And I think I'm at a crossroads right now where I don't know.

01:26:57Like, do I? Obviously, I want to keep pushing forward with my career. I want to keep leveling up. I want to continue to do better. And I foresee. I hope they do, too. Staying with this company for a long time because I'm surrounded by these individuals that for the first time in my culinary career, I feel support each other and actually say, I'm not afraid if you become an executive chef, too, because we're so different. You know, we colored the same picture and we stayed in the lines and we did it the way we're supposed to. But it looks totally different. You know, but I don't know. I don't I don't know. I don't know where to go from here other than to. I think I think that what's your Instagram handle? But how do people if people listen, they want to follow you. What's your Instagram at Katie Chef Katie Wainick? OK, so at K.A.T.I.E., right? Yeah. C.H.E.F.K.A.T.I.E.W.A.Y. N.I.C.K.

01:28:00Yes, Chef Katie Wainick. I don't I think that you underestimate how many people out there are listening to this who are like, holy shit, she's amazing that you're inspiring people right now who have life way easier that are finishing their day going, oh, look what I have. And they're going, holy shit, that woman right there has it together and she is fucking killing it. And people are listening to you right now and they're going, damn, I got to step it up. I got to step it up. And I won't be able to follow you because you post so many great stories and so many things. Follow Chef Katie Wainick and you'll kind of see she posts the videos of the flooding and the different things that happen while you're in middle of service. That was wild. It's just it's some fascinating stuff. That's what got you on my radar is because I like interviewing interesting people. But seeing what you accomplished your first restaurant job November 11th, 2019 to today.

01:29:00I mean, we're 91 February of 2022. You're two years in and you have just slayed it. So anybody is out there who doesn't think they can do it. You can. You can. If you respect yourself and keep pushing and keep getting after it. Katie, we're at the end of our time here today. I could talk to you for hours. We should probably do this every single Tuesday just until we can all feel good. Plenty of sub stories. There's a lot we didn't get to cover at the end of every show. I like to ask our guests to take us out. I was like, you know, Jerry Springer final thought style. I need to find a different reference for that. Something to surmise, something you want to leave our listeners with some word of wisdom or or not. You could, you know, I always say like nib high football rules. Whatever you want to say, as long as you want to say it, go. I think ultimately, no matter what, just because you don't fit the timeline or the structure or the parameters that someone else gives you doesn't mean that you're wrong.

01:30:04It doesn't mean that you aren't capable so much more if you just are brave enough to step forward. And a lot of times you have to be brave enough to say yes. And some of the things you just don't want to do, do it before your brain says no. Do it for it talks you out of it, because I could still be in a hotel making the rounds and all of the restaurants. I could still be in a country club and I think that's it. And that's the best. But I'm not. And I've I reached and I reached and I searched for these individuals to surround me that could see my worth and wouldn't let me walk away. And I just think that at the end of the day, you know, it's not that you have to be aggressive in how you leave. It's not that you have to be so loud and to be heard. Just need to do what feels right for you without hurting anybody and just don't stop.

01:31:13Don't settle. You know, I come from a really small town and nobody knows where it's at. And I was sheltered my entire life, but I had a great life. I had an awesome childhood. I want to give that to my kids, but I also want them to be brave enough to do it alone and to figure themselves out before they start projecting on others. I mean, I I have the ability to hurt someone else emotionally, physically, whatever I can hurt someone else. It's it's our responsibility to not do that. But I feel it's also our responsibility to learn the people that are around us enough to learn what does actually hurt them when you don't mean anything at all. And it's just we we've we're in a weird place now. Now we have this generation, generation, generation where some say, I don't have to work my entire life.

01:32:16You know, I can just pick up little jobs here and there and we'll call it good. And that's it. And then we have the original ones that say I'm going to say, like, you know, Brandon and his his group. But we have those that say, like, get a real job. My my dad up until eight months ago, seven months ago, said, get a real job. You're never going to be anything if you keep trying to be a chef. And, you know, if you if you run out of people that are are for you, you just have to do it for yourself. And I think that's still OK. It's OK to still be by yourself and be your own cheerleader for a minute. You know. Wow. I feel like every time the last few times people have kind of given their final thought, it's been very poignant and very on brand. Katie, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for God, an amazing commerce.

01:33:17Thank you for breaking in the studio. Yeah, it was awesome. Breaking the studio with some some good, deep content. I have really enjoyed this. This has been so much fun for me and we have to do it again. We'll have to come back and do this again and we'll pick up and thank you. I'm sorry. I avoid it. I actively avoided you. I didn't feel trying for a long time. Yeah, I'm going to be honest. It's it's less rare than you think where people like, no, no, no, we can't we can't we can't. And then once they once they meet him and get to know him, then they're like, OK, yes, let's do it. It finishes the interview and they go, oh, that was so fun. Yeah, I thought it was going to be this fast. I just kept fussing. No, it's it's no. I love I love that I got to be here finally. Yeah, we need to. It's cool. I really love it. Well, thank you. Nice. We will talk to you soon. All right. Wow, Jen, that was that was that was a good first interview.

01:34:25Yeah, it was. What did you think? Well, I thought she was great. I really like her. I meant what I said, and I hope that she hears it and wears it, that I hope she's proud of herself and that she feels deserving of good things and great things and all of that. What about you? I, you know, I had an idea of where I wanted to go with that. Like I said, I felt like watching kind of just seeing her on social media, what she's been doing. I thought it was raw. I thought that she was very vulnerable and I thought she was open. And I love that. I love that people are going to listen to this and they're going to go, OK, well, they're going to see some perspective. And it wasn't just her coming in and telling about how great it is to be a chef and how I worked hard and I got this and I got that. That was her saying, I mean, I've been through a lot and I've been hustling and it ain't easy.

01:35:28And it ain't easy. And I don't know, I just was, it's refreshing and fun and it's nice to meet new people. So fun to do an interview live. It's different when you look somebody in the eyes and you can see emotion. You can see that they're telling the truth. You know, it's, I don't know, I thought it was pretty powerful. Yeah, I think so too. And I hope that everyone that listens to it just really opens their heart for her. And like, I think her experience within the industry has been a little off so far, weird and not our experience with the industry. And so I'm excited as she grows in her career and gets to know more people for her to know the people we know and be loved by the people we love and all of that. Yeah, I think you should go follow her on Instagram if you're out there and let her know, let her know that she's amazing because she really is. I mean, she was, I mean, I loved her story. She's been through a lot. I just that story I think is I said a long time ago on an episode. I said we're going into a pandemic and this is a time you could reinvent yourself.

01:36:32We're raising the lockdown, March 17th, 2020. And I don't know how long it's going to be for. But if you wanted to learn something, what if you want to go to the gym? If you wanted to come back from this pandemic and you want to be a completely different person, you could do that. And then I said it's like a caterpillar going into chrysalis. Are you going to come out and be this big, you know, swallowtail butterfly or are you going to be a moth? Like, what are you going to do? And she I feel like she's one of those people that was a completely different person. If you ask her to go back before the pandemic, before she got that job at Opryland and what was your life? And then today, like she's went through a complete metamorphosis. And it's exciting to see what I'm curious to see what she's going to do with it now, like where she takes it. I feel like if we interview her again in a year, that would be a totally different. Yeah, I want to know what her experiences were for the past year. Like, OK, we were here. What did you do in the next year? I would love to know that. And I probably will watch. I'll see as on the socials because she's pretty good at posting.

01:37:33So I will and I will say thanks again, Katie, if you're listening to this episode for coming in again. We've got like nine more interviews live. I am so excited to do this. I thought that was a completely different show than we've ever done. Yeah, it does feel so different to be in the room. And even next to you, like I said, I think we've only done that a handful of times. And so it is totally different to be in the presence of people. When you're looking on a screen and I'm trying to look from cues from you, like when you want to talk. Yeah, I'm sitting next to you. I know when you want to say that. I always felt so bad because I'm like, I'm doing all the talking. Jump in, jump in, jump in. So much easier live. It is easier. And like just like the parenting aspect of it. Like how many times did one of our kids like come in during the podcast? Which like they're beautiful and you should all want to look at them. They are gorgeous kids. But it's like, OK, now I'm in mom mode and I can't focus on like the person I'm talking to. So it's nice to just be like, OK, we are here present in the moment. Like that's important.

01:38:33It is. I thought that the looking live like when you looked at her and said, I'm here for you. Like you kept looking like I see you. I get it. And I don't know. It was pretty. It was pretty special. It was great. And so I look forward to lots more of these. Yeah. What's more of these live interviews in studio. She got to go home with a new shirt and a hat and stuff. That's fun. Yes. She got to take home some goodies from Super Source, our amazing sponsor, Jason Ellis for Super Source. When you come in, if you're on the show, you will get to take home free chemicals. Their setup looks really good. Yeah. So we're going to have fresh baked bread and all kinds of stuff happening here in the studio. You just wait and see. We're putting coffee creamer on the list. Yes. Yeah. We have coffee. We have coffee. No creamer. No. Thank you all for listening today. I hope that you guys are doing well. I hope you're being safe out there.

01:39:33Love you guys. Love you. Bye. Bye.