Sarah Gavigan

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02:08Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, the tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. Hello Music City, and welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll, and I am your host. We are powered by Gordon Food Service. I am so excited to be here today. If you're a follower of the podcast, you know that I've been doing a bunch of shows by myself. I've been doing a lot of interviews by myself. Caroline Galzin, the amazing co-host from Nicky's Coal Fired, has kind of been absent for, she's here sometimes, not there sometimes, and I know you're kind of wondering, hey, what's up with Caroline? What's going on here? We're gonna bring Caroline back in. Caroline's gonna tell you her own story. She has a lot, a lot going on in her life and her business, and she's got the Maxwell that's open, lots of fun things, and I've kind of secretly been looking for a new co-host because I love doing the show, but man, I need another perspective in here.

03:22I don't wanna just do my own stories. So I did an interview a few weeks ago with a woman named Crystal DeLuna Bogan, and I had so much fun in the interview, and after the interview, I said, hey, would you like to do some more interviews with me and kind of see how this thing works? And now she's joining us here on this intro. Welcome to the podcast, officially, Crystal DeLuna Bogan. Thank you so much. Oh my gosh, what a great intro. I know, can you believe it? You could one day just be a guest and then become a co-host. On the show, like here you go. Here's to the stars, kids. Anything is possible. I guess I'm saying welcome to the Crystal era of Nashville Restaurant Radio. We're in our like, yes, let's do this. Anything is possible. We can have it all. We can do it all. Not really, but let's just try, right? All of that, yes. I mean, I am no Caroline Galzin. She is a dear friend of mine, and I am so excited to be sitting in her seat, literally.

04:28But yeah, I definitely feel like I can bring some interesting perspective. Being a food truck owner for 13 years, being a restaurant owner for almost eight years, industry, cooking as a chef for over 20 years. So I definitely have a different point of view, and I mean, I think it was, sometimes you just get along with people. I know. Sometimes you just really hit it off, and I feel like we really had a good repertoire going. A rapport that we really kind of. I didn't have any preconceived, this is what I'm, when you came in for the interview, it wasn't the case. I was just excited to have you in, because I think we did an Iron Fork a long time ago, where you were the host of it, and I was with U.S. Foods. Me and Jess. You and Jess. Ben and Jess. Yes, and I was the U.S. Foods guy, and I think I announced a secret ingredient. That's how I knew you first time on the show, but as we started talking, I was like, oh my gosh, she's fantastic.

05:30I really just enjoyed our banter back and forth. I'm very funny, and I'm also very smart. So that makes for a great. Well, so am I. So that's great. Counterpart. Yeah, great. I love it. So we, I said, look, I've got this interview with Sarah Gavigan. Would you like to come in? And then I was like, she's one of my good friends. Let's try this. I was like, yes. And so today's episode has Sarah Gavigan, and one of the things that I really wanna start doing is I wanna start doing intros with you. Yes, please. So what I'd like to, so we're gonna start doing here on the show, and I think you've agreed to this. Well, we'll see, right? Showing up a little before the interview with Sarah Gavigan. Okay. And talking about what your expectations are for the interview. Like, what are you thinking pre-interview? And then we'll do the actual interview, and then after the interview, we'll have our thoughts. I love it. So we can sit down afterwards and go, well, this is what you thought was gonna happen. This is what actually happened.

06:30What are your thoughts? So staying tuned through the entire interview to hear our thoughts afterwards. And I love this in the show, Armchair Expert with Dak Shepard. Yes, heard of him. Do you listen to that? I've heard of him, yes. It's like one of my favorite podcasts. I mean, like talk about like height of the original kind of podcasts where people really started listening. And I mean, this was all pandemic behavior, right? Yes. But they do this thing at the end called a fact check. She goes back and fact checks anything that he says. So it was like 29% of people do this. She's like, actually, you said 29%. The actual number is 12, and you were way wrong. And so they do a fact check where she actually goes in and fact checks all the shit that he says. And then they have like a 20 minute conversation after the interview. And I just love, it's one of my favorite parts about listening to that show. Yeah. She kinda get their thoughts. I definitely like that idea of kind of bringing it back because a lot of times in conversation, you're kind of rattling things off the top of your head.

07:33But you know, I mean, as a restaurateur, as somebody who's in the industry, like maybe we're learning something too. Like maybe I'm saying maybe our guest is saying something that is something you can learn from or I don't know, you know, and then we can actually clarify if that's true or not. Well, I listened to every episode that we record before I put it back out. I listened to it again, like in my car, driving to and from work or even in sitting in the studio. And I kind of get a, okay, what do we do there? That was the worst thing. Cause I think of all the questions I should have asked. Yeah. In the moment, like I wish I would have asked this question or I wish it would have went this direction. But now we know that. So we'll have a conversation about that after the fact. I love it. So today we have Sarah Gavigan. Yes, she's so good. She's so honest and I can't wait to hear what she's gonna talk about. Do we know what she's coming in for? She's awesome. And she's opened a couple of new locations. Last time she was in was in 2021. March 8th is my birthday on 2021.

08:36Fun fact. And she was gonna be opening a couple of new locations. And she goes, I'm opening in the suburbs. And we had such a great conversation around. Franklin and in East Nashville, yes. And so she's done those things. I think we're gonna kind of, how have the last couple of years been for you? Sometimes it doesn't, here's also a thing on how I choose who comes on the show. I don't know if anybody knows this or not. We have PR companies that'll send us messages all the time. You're telling me. Yeah, you get lots of emails. The next episode we're gonna have after this is gonna be with Pytown Tacos. And it's gonna be Jason. They just opened a new location in East Nashville too. So Jason Crockerle and Mary Bell. Mary Bell, I think her last name was Onofre. Onofre. I'm butchering how you say the name. Well, we'll see. You'll get to know it when she's here, right? She'll be in. And so that's gonna be a really fun interview to talk to them. But that was a PR. The PR company said, hey, we love to do this. And I said, great. Otherwise, if it's somebody who is awesome and polarizing in the neighborhood, like for you, you didn't have a PR company call me and say, well, I'll get you in.

09:43I have my own PR company. It was just us talking like, hey, let's do this. So if you're out there and you have a restaurant and you wanna get on the show, send me a DM and be like, hey, we love to be on the show. And chances are we can get you in here if we got time to do it. Or I just see somebody who's really interesting or I see someone like, wow, that guy's awesome or that woman's amazing. And I just wanna learn more. Or I read a snippet about somebody or I see somebody on local on two and it's like a three minute segment. Like, I want the hour with that person. Yeah, well, there's always so much more you can't get to. You know, I mean, I like the idea too of like asking chefs what their tattoos are. There's so much behind a lot of this. I think giving them a platform is wonderful. I think it's so helpful. I think we eat with our emotions, right? So I love that we're supporting people that I might not know certain stories. You'll learn a lot about a lot of people doing this. It's a lot of fun. I can't wait. This is the funnest thing that I get to do all week long.

10:45I'm not kidding. Just sitting and talking to people. Speaking of really fun shit, we had a guy named Kelly Probst on the show and he is the fishmonger for what chefs want. Oh my God. Okay, and he literally lives in New Smyrna Beach in Florida and what he does is he goes to the docks where all the boats come in. He actually picks the fish? Hand picks these fish. He picks the best fish and then he sends them on a truck. They go, next day they're in Louisville and anybody here in Nashville can buy this fish. Like it's just available. So when he was in, I said, dude, next time you're on the dock and there's a captain and he's got some fish, pull out your phone and interview him for like two minutes. Oh my God, please tell me. Can we listen to this? We have today. So he sent a message the other day and he says, all right, so I've talked to this guy. The quality isn't. I mean, he's on a dock, right? We're not in a studio. Yeah, he's on a dock talking to a captain. A captain and his crew.

11:47A real captain. This is the coolest. Seagulls and like, is there birds in the background? Yeah, like this is like the coolest two minutes you're ever gonna hear. And I hope to do this on a regular basis. So let's, we're gonna go right now live to our reporter, Kelly. Wow, out on the scene. On the scene at the dock right now in New Smyrna Beach talking to a captain about golden tile. We're gonna send it over to you, Kelly. Come down here on the dock with Mike Bergman and Captain Roger said, Hey, Cap, what's going on in the docks today? What are we doing? We are unloading golden tile. I know, I wish you guys could see them. They are fantastic. I mean, absolutely beautiful. The eyes. Got some 15 pounders for sure. Captain Roger bringing in the meat. Bringing in the meat. Where'd you find them? Ah, that's a secret. I can't tell anybody that. Roughly how many miles off shore?

12:47About 50 miles. About 50 miles. And then about how deep the water? 700 feet. About 700. What bait do you use? Squid. Squid? That's pretty cool. You know, I'm looking at the teeth here and there's like these canonical crushing type but grabbing at the same time teeth. What do they eat in the wild normally? Crab, squid, anything they could get their little mouths on, basically. They probably eat little fish and stuff too, I'm sure. Probably squid and everything like that. Just kind of whatever. And you find them on mud bottoms, right? Mud, yeah. And they burrow, right? Kind of like, how can you tell if you see them on the fish finders? How do you find the area you're gonna drop me off? You can't see them. You're looking for certain types of bottoms. Just certain types of bottoms? Cause they're burrowed down and then they wait for something to come by. And they're out of their hole like this. And this right here glows. It's a little lure. It's an adipose fin.

13:47It's just, you know, one's large. It's just right. It's like a lure bringing the fish. Yup, he sits there and that's glowing. Little fish comes up and he. That's cool. And the males have a bigger one than the females. Yeah. Awesome. What's the reason for that? Yeah, do you know the reason? Maybe because males are more susceptible to predators. They don't want the females. Look at me. They may be quick cutting these off. Hey Mike, what's going on with fish out today? Come here. We cut them off and use them for bait. Oh really? Yeah, that's interesting. So how would you guys describe Golden Tile? Like eating it? The best fish in the ocean. Right? I always like to describe it as it's what grouper wants to be when it grows up. Yeah. Hey, what's on your hands Mike? Oh man. Light pink flesh, translucent, just fabulous. Well, thanks guys. Really appreciate it. Right on. Right on Cal. You guys have a great day. Yep. Thank you Mike. Thank you Mike. Okay, thank you to our reporter down on the docks, Kelly Probst.

14:51Wow, on the scene. What do you think about that? That's so cool. I want to hear more things like that. I do too. If I could do like on a farm or like any of these people. I love it. Where are you? Yeah, maybe not. We can't probably go to the dock ourselves, but. We get people to do this, like just voice memos, send it to us. So What Chefs Want has a lot of iron from the fire. They have a lot of different categories and we're going to do that with more of them. That's why I love partnering with What Chefs Want. 700 feet. And then I can just from my app just order it tomorrow. That is available. That golden tile is available today. So if you call What Chefs Want, you hear this, you call What Chefs Want or place that order, that's the golden tile you're getting from that dude's boat. I mean, I love using my app, like my What Chefs Want app. It's so easy to order that way. 24 hours a day you can get customer service. Like it's a great app. Well yeah, and you can order very small amounts of things and they'll still deliver it. Or you can get this like fish that was caught the day before.

15:54That's pretty rad. I mean, I don't personally use this type of fish, but I would love to know that restaurants are using fish that's been caught the day before they order it. It's being served the next day. There's a story that you can tell your guest from that clip right there. Like we bought golden tile. The captain's name was Freddy or whatever the guy's name is. It's caught in 700 feet of water. It's in muddy water. They have to, it goes by. They have, that's such a- I didn't even know. I mean, I just, you know, you think you know certain things about like tile fish. I don't know. I mean, it's what grouper wants to be when it grows up. I know, right? I would have never, see this is something only a captain, a fishmonger would say. All right. Well, we talked to Sarah for, I'm, and so I think that we should, let's go in and see what Sarah's saying and stay tuned to the end and we'll, we'll kind of get our thoughts on this, but let's jump in right now with Sarah Gavigan.

16:55So super excited today to welcome back to the show Sarah Gavigan, and she is the owner of Otaku Ramen. I'm also going to introduce Crystal DeLuna Bogan. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. Thank you. I'm here with my opinions and to make sure you don't talk too much, Brandon. That's basically my job, right? You've crushed it. That's exactly it. Make sure I don't talk too much and share your opinions. And we let Sarah get her whatever she wants to do. Get her whatever she wants to talk about out. You mean what? Talk too much? Maybe? Yeah. You have three talkers in the room. This is good. We want you to talk too much, Sarah, not, not Brandon. I am professionally certified to talk too much. Well, let's get, last time you were on the show was March the 7th. I put on the 7th, it was actually March 8th, which was my birthday of 2021. We were talking about doing a pop-up at Maribor, which never happened. We were, you were saying that you were going to be expanding into the suburbs that you really, I thought you had a really good rap on travelers versus tourists.

18:03Locals, tourists, and travelers. Locals, tourists, and travelers. And you really wanted to focus on areas where there was more locals, the people that would repeat business, come back and back and back. Give us an update. How's, how's it going? Yeah, I mean, we opened two units last year, East Nashville and Franklin. It was a very bumpy ride opening both of those restaurants. Both were late. Both cost twice as much to open. And, you know, I think that everything that we aspired to be and do in 2021, it's pretty interesting to see how much of that still stands. Over 50% of it doesn't. So, you know, part of what is really fascinating about where we are right now is like, call it whatever you want, a recession, call it oversaturation, but consumer behavior has changed. And, you know, it's part of, I think, what I'm good at, but also what I get criticized for is both internally and externally, even within my own company, is I can see down the road and I'm not afraid to pivot, but you can't be afraid to look at the truth.

19:20And the truth is the hardest thing to look at. Because especially when you own a company and you're so wrapped up in your own business, and let's face it, when you're the face of a business, you have to also kind of be wrapped up in your own press kit or else who would ever get out of bed and actually put themselves on camera because it's really hard to muster up the energy to do all that. And at the end of the day, you have to be willing to say, I was wrong. I have to change, this has to change, everything has to change. So what we got right was Franklin. What we got wrong was East. Tell me about it, why? East Nashville has a lot going on. And I think being a little bit off the beaten path works for some. I think it works when you're in a giant press cycle. It works really, really well. And if you can stay in that press cycle for an entire first year that you're open, that works really, really well.

20:21I think that if you are on unit three or four and you are no longer the shiny penny, it's a lot harder. Doesn't mean that our food is any less loved. It doesn't mean that our brand is any less loved. Maybe there have been some bumps with that this year, but overall, I think that East Nashville is such a different environment than we imagined it was. As far as, is it into a business that is in multiples? Not really. Can I jump in too? Can you define shiny penny for our listeners? Well, yeah, past a decade. That's kind of like a industry term that we use, right? Yeah, past your first decade of business. We're just getting ready in December to pass 10 years. And I think, if we really look at it, right? What makes a business grow? Visibility, period. For the first 10 years, you and I were on every list.

21:23Yeah, every list. Every list. Without trying, we didn't have to put anything. There was no press kit that we had to present. No, and now the reality is that you do have to work harder if you can even get on that list as a multiple. And that is how things are changing. When I arrived here in 2010 and decided in 2012 that we wanted to take this journey, I remember, I said this to you, I've said this to a lot of people. Crystal and I have talked about it a lot. When the moment would come that Nashville would have to sharpen its fangs and that the back padding society would be over. We have reached that point. And I think because we both have lived in bigger other cities and have had experience with seeing what's hot and new in other cities and then Nashville gets it and it's their turn to do the pop-ups and do the food truck thing. I think we know that it's a wave that's gonna go away.

22:25And you better write it when you get it. And if you don't do it right and you don't take advantage of all the things, you know it's gonna go away. We all know those opening sales aren't gonna last. And when you get into multiples, like you said, you opened East Nashville in Franklin. I closed two restaurants two years ago in East Nashville in Franklin. So, I mean, while you were probably still in construction, I was, you were closing. And so, you kinda go through these cycles of, wow, you see your friends closing restaurants and you're about to open them and you're like, oh my God, this is, East Nashville's really hard. We both live in East Nashville, down the street from each other. And we know, because we actually eat in East Nashville. There's a lot of stuff in East Nashville and there's not enough people. Well, it seems like the people that live in East Nashville don't go out in East Nashville. No. That's what's really fascinating to me. That is interesting. Yeah, and it goes back to the locals, tourists and travelers.

23:25You know, you wanna serve locals, so you move to a local neighborhood, yet the people that live in that neighborhood don't go out. Or maybe they do and they- They don't go to your place. Well, there's so many options in East Nashville. There's so many options. And you know, we also have different behaviors since COVID. You know, our takeout. So different. You know, we, I mean, you know, I text you every, I actually, you know, cause I text you. Like, if I get a weird order from Otaku or like something's missing, I'll actually text Sarah. Of course. Like, I'll be like, oh, I feel like they forgot something a couple of times or, or this is so good. Oh my God, it traveled so well. Or the packaging, I'm always, and this is how we, who want each other to succeed, communicate, right? Yep. What are some examples of not communicating? Yeah, well- In a positive way. Yeah, yeah. And also just being, even if I feel uncomfortable, like for example, my best friend from birth is the owner of a food company, Jackie. Yeah, Jackie's fantastic.

24:26Jackie's the best. We love Jackie. And you know, she's owned that company for 30 years, right? And then I come strutting into the industry and she's like, phew, you know? And it's taken 10 years for us to like, you know, get on a kind of a plane as friends where now I'll send her a picture. I'm like, babe, this sandwich was crap. This needed twice as much chicken salad. And she'll do the same for me. And that is how you, that's how it should be within the industry. A hundred percent. I mean, I, I think I went out to dinner one time with my wife for an anniversary at a really nice restaurant here in town. And they were doing a big special thing with the pandemic and it was not good. Like it was, it was just, the whole thing was just not good. The chef wasn't there. And I called him the next day and I said, hey, I just, I don't want anything for it. I don't want anything, but this was a pretty big- You should know. Night, and I want to let you know, like it felt like it was mailed in. Like it just wasn't, it wasn't my expectation whatsoever. And I know your expectations are higher. And he said, thank you. And, but it was, it was a interesting, it was, it was kind of a tough conversation to have because you don't want to upset the person, but I knew him and it was like, okay, I'll do it.

25:34So I think what we're dancing around right now is a post from December the 16th, 2023. And this post came from Edible Nash, Tennessee, which is a publication here locally. They're a local publication who in their mission, I think they support local restaurants and the local community initiative. And they do farm dinners and all these little things. It's a magazine they put out every month, but they made a post on December 16th that was like otaku, otaku ramen, thumbs down. And then they went into, you know, and it's still up. I mean, there's 259 comments. And I felt like it was, I felt like it was in pretty poor taste, honestly. I felt like it was incredibly poor taste. And just like all of Sarah's friends were like texting each other, like what, what's going on with Edible? Like what's going on? Like we were, we were like defensive about it because we can't imagine that ever happening to us and being like just left out there. And we'd want people to come to our defense because that's just not the way we operate in Nashville.

26:39You know? Tell me, tell me. All right, so we all know you have to have thick skin. You're the faceless. But like when you see a post like that, maybe you get a text that says, hey, go look at the Edible post. I don't know how this works. Yes, Michael Hanna texted me. Michael Hanna, yeah, from. He always watches my back. St. Vito's focaccia, right? So he's amazing, but he texts you. What was the first emotion that you felt when you read that? Like as a human being, you read this post. What emotion did you feel in that moment? I'm feeling it again right now. Oh. I mean, your heart falls into your stomach. I mean, where do I go here? I mean, I think the first place you go as an entrepreneur is people have no fucking idea what it takes to do this. No idea. I haven't had a day off in three months. Yeah, and it's the holiday season too. They have no idea how hard it is. Now, that being said, there's two sides to the coin, right? There's the side that's hurt.

27:39There's the side that's angry. There's the side that goes, why wouldn't you just call me? Yeah. I've given you ad money. Why wouldn't you just call me? And there's the side that goes, wow, that was personal. That was not professional. That was 100% personal. Have you had any beef with, I don't know who runs that page over there. I don't have any beef. I know Jill is the editor. Jill Melton's the editor. Yeah, Jill. It was Jill. Okay, so it was Jill who posted this. Yeah, I don't have any beef, but she apparently does with me. And I don't think I'm very interested in having a conversation about it, to be honest. That time has passed. Yeah. So I think the other side of that is the, well, fucking A, let's get to work. And that's what we did. I put my head down and I got to work. I think that one of the biggest, like the biggest stressor for us, other than building two restaurants in the middle of paying double, in the middle of Boomtown is real fun.

28:42Building restaurants in Boomtown, not fun. I think that growth is hard. And I know you know that too, Crystal. We really felt it this year. We really, really felt it. Expansion is very, very difficult. And keeping quality control is very, very difficult. It's also like the variance on what we do is really, really difficult. I think a lot of people don't realize that. And this kind of like chefs and cooks will understand this, person at home may not, but like if you're cooking a steak at a restaurant, you've probably got a 20 minute variance on that. And I do that math by saying how long it's on the grill, whether you get it right or wrong, how long it sits before it goes to the gas before you get it right or wrong. You got a very large variance there. We have a two minute variance on what we do. We, like if you think about one ounce of highly concentrated seasoning to 12 ounces of broth with no seasoning, if you're even a milliliter off on either one of those, it's wrong.

29:46Yeah. It's wrong. And so what we've really learned is that it's simple. We know this, it's simple, but it's not easy. So I can't, I can only stop human error so much. The only thing that I can do is help people understand that the variance exists and that it's human and that they have every right to ask us, hey, this is a little too salty for me today. This is not salty enough for me today. This is a little, my noodles are a little overcooked. We will remake any bowl anytime because that is what we do. So it does really go all the way back to like how difficult it is to teach people about a culture and a food that doesn't belong to you. Yeah. And that is really the bigger piece here. Well, what Jill did was shitty, period, the end. Moving on from that is how can I educate people whatever her grievances were are no longer my concern.

30:49What is my concern now are the future grievances that people may have and don't understand about what we do and about the food. And there's always gonna be people that don't understand, that call it spaghetti, that think this, think that. You can't change everybody and everything. But I think the difference too, Sarah, with why people even will review Otaku or why they review certain restaurants over others, they kind of know they can get a response from you. Yes, I'd let them bait me, they baited me and I took it. I know. And I think they like the interaction because they have something within them that needs to be fulfilled apparently and you are giving them that kind of feedback. And some businesses won't even respond to reviews. But good or bad, people are talking about it and they kind of wanna, I like the people in defense and coming to your defense. I always say we never take anything bad down. We just like to see our customers come in and kind of just fight for us a little bit.

31:54And I think that's positive, kind of. You've got a lot of supporters in the comments thread of that post. And so what you're saying is it was painful, but you can't change it. It's kind of my life motto is, you can't change things, I'm not gonna worry about them. You can't change. What you can do is you can look forward and say, hey, I'm gonna take and see if there's any nuggets of truth in that. I'm gonna go forward and see what I can do to get better every day, right? I'll tell you the most interesting nugget of truth that came out of all of it. The Reddit feed was really entertaining. Was Otaku Ramen is so mid. Oh, and that really like, I sat on that hard for a few months and you know what? It is decidedly, okay? So let's explore that. I am not Kodawari Ramen. Kodawari is craft ramen, okay? That means that the chef makes every bowl and that they are using artisan ingredients every day and that they are, that is the kind of business that they are.

32:55They have six seats in their restaurant. That's how it works in Japan. 90% of ramen shops are Kodawari, but that's not the only kind of ramen shop that exists. There are volume ramen shops and yes, that is mid. If, you know, there are people here in Nashville that run small operations that serve Kodawari ramen. That is a business model. That is not, I didn't know when I started doing this. I thought we were gonna be Kodawari. I did not know that we were gonna be volume. I didn't know that. And anybody with the respect for the ingredients in the culture like you do, of course, would wanna do that, but also it's a business and you pivoted through a pandemic and we all kind of went the, I mean, we're a QSR, quick service restaurant. Your packaging speaks for itself. Like when you get takeout or any kind of delivery from you guys, it travels very well, which is very hard to do. I know that personally, I've gone through so many packaging ups and downs and that's a huge factor in the product that the customer gets at the end of the day, delivered 20 minutes later after the fact and you guys give instructions.

34:05I mean, it's like the best possible takeout you can get from a ramen place. Thank you. And I've lived in LA, I know the, oh, I just paid so much for this. It's literally like a ball of noodles with I have to heat the broth back up. There's all these things that you end up, oh, I should just made this myself, but I can speak for, oh, I'm like, oh, the packaging. I just was so proud of you that you figured that out so quickly. That's 100% Brad Gavigan, that's my husband. And I know, I know, it's like, of course. And he was like obsessed with it and there's like all, even though the chopsticks are branded. I mean, that's success. So like, I'm looking at it from that point of view and people are like, oh, it's meant, yeah, but it's not meant to be sit down in front. I mean, they don't know the difference. So really they're exposing themselves, right? Yeah, I mean, I think like I'm constantly looking at other shops that are opening across the country, of course, and like looking at like great example is this very highly lauded Japanese ramen chef opened in San Diego place called Negi, ramen Negi.

35:11And I mean, the lines are like three hours long every day. That would never happen here ever. It would never work here, people wouldn't have it. The ramen that he serves there, they wouldn't eat here, like for real. So I think that what's interesting about that is, yeah, you can serve a super fishy shoyu, but maybe only the Japanese are gonna eat it. And maybe a few people that have traveled to Japan. So yes, I am serving mid ramen. I'm serving American ramen. I have to, it's what we have to do to be business here. And also what Franklin has really taught me, we are an entry level ramen shop. We introduce almost everyone that comes to dime with us to ramen. Please, by all means, graduate to Kotowari. Find a Kotowari shop, eat there and eat with us. But what's fascinating about it too, is like, if I go even further down that rabbit hole, it's never the tonkatsu or the miso that has problems. It's always the clear, what we call the classic, the clear chicken broth, the shio or the shoyu.

36:16It is the most simple ramen you can make and there is no fucking where to hide. If it's wrong, it's wrong. You know, it's interesting, because I think that you say it's mid and that hits you. Like you said, you sat on it and I think you came to terms with it. You're like, hey, look, this is okay. But when you put as much time and energy and love and passion and those late nights and the long days, and you said, expanding restaurants, I'm on my third restaurant right now and it's hard as hell. Like I don't know how to do it. Like I'm still every day. Like I can't be as hands-on on number three. If I'm as hands-on number three, then the other two suffer because I'm not in that. So you have to kind of pull back a little bit, but all those time and energy and love and everything you put into it to hear somebody say that, they're not telling you your effort is mid. But what you're doing is something that, like you said, is introductory to a lot of people and they're learning and you're introducing so many people to a style of cuisine and the volume that you're doing, you can't do it that way.

37:22And I don't know. No, we can't. It's the other lesson that we really learned is that as we started to grow and we started working with advisors that had already been through this process and we're talking about people that started after the recession and sold before the recession. They were in the boom. My advisor built his company and sold it to Danny Myers. And so that, you're listening to a person that has had that experience and they are putting you through the lens of their experience, became pretty clear to me that that was a big mistake. And so we made a menu change last year that kind of kicked off all this discontent. And that menu change was to standardize for growth. And boy, did it kick me in the ass. Yeah, it did a really good streamline thing for like online ordering or order ahead because it was very clear and easy to order. But if you take it to the restaurant and I'm sitting down at the restaurant, it's like two different things.

38:26And I can see how that would be, because I'm more of your takeout customer because I have a little at home, so I unfortunately don't get to sit in restaurant. But I eat from the East Nashville location and it's so easy to pull up and just, my food's always ready on time and just the app, the way your app works is really easy or the online is really easy to use. And so like I'm speaking from that perspective. Now you sit down and you have a glass of sake and you're doing the whole thing. It's kind of not, what it was before makes more sense, right? Yeah, I mean, you went straight to QSR where we started with full service and then went to QSR. And that in itself has also been really hard to get our hands around. That's what Caroline did too over at Nicky's in the pandemic. She pivoted to a QSR. We had to because you couldn't be in the restaurant. No, you really couldn't. And like the business model works so much better. Like I love the QSR model. It's streamlined. We're gonna stay with it at East. We're gonna run an Izakaya with a QSR.

39:26I mean, it's nuts. It's crazy to do, but it makes sense. I'll tell you the thing I love about it the most is pool house. I mean, everyone gets paid the same amount. And now I love it because we have, our team members are on a base plus tips. And for a year, year and a half, all my managers were like, you aren't gonna be able to get good cooks this way. Good cooks won't work on tips. Horseshit. I've got great cooks now. Let me tell you, some of them are making 30 bucks an hour. Yeah, because if we're busy. When we make money, they make money. Exactly, exactly. That's how our team, same. We all, we have a baseline and then they work off of tips and they know when they're getting their butt kicked, they're like excited. That's right. It's not just the front of house that's getting that. It's everyone the same. And our more seasoned employees are actually in the back because they're obviously taking, like you start off on the register, which is actually a very important position because you're talking through the menu. But same, like we try to do as much as we can with and talk about where things got, some customers don't want to hear about that.

40:34They just want their thing and they want to leave. That's kind of the QRSR. You have to read people a little bit. Do you want the full spiel or do you want to just get what you get and leave and you don't really want to hear me talk about it? Right, right. But when you're sit down restaurant, you get that every time. So you're asking for the experience. With QRSR, you kind of have to be like, do you want the experience or do you just want to kind of like get it and go? Yeah, it's interesting. I think it's definitely been a factor for East and you know, East, she's a big girl, big girl. And I think that, you know, it became clear to me like, you know, we opened East in August. I had to jump right into finishing Franklin. I kind of left, you know, left her by herself that one. And then when I swang back around, I was like, damn, this thing needs a party. We need to have a party in here. That's why Baro Taku came back was because it was like, this is not gonna work to just be a QRSR realm and shop. It's too big. It is springtime. That means we're gonna be hanging out on patios.

41:36We're going to brunches. And of course that means bravazzi. The hard Italian soda made right here in Nashville that is taking over brunch by storm. Yes, bravazzi is gluten-free. It's made with real fruit juice, cane sugar and nothing artificial. This is great out of the can over ice or mixed in a cocktail and you can get it on draft. This is distributed by best brands right here in Tennessee and it has the perfect amount of sweetness crafted in the Italian tradition. This is a studio favorite. When we pass these out to guests in the studio, they love them. We sell them at Chagos and everybody loves them over at Chagos. We are big fans of bravazzi and this is the time of year where everybody wants a crisp, clean, Italian sparkling soda. These are also great for the boat. These are great for outdoor picnics. Get you some bravazzi wherever you find fine beverages.

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43:38You gotta do this. And that is why we're talking about the Chandler James Retail Team at Lee & Associates. Miller Chandler and Leanne James are your go-to brokers to do just that. They're located downtown in the heart of it all in the Batman building and they're serving all of Middle Tennessee. Let me tell you, both Miller and Leanne are Tennessee natives so you know they know the neighborhoods. They know they know the demographics and they can help you find your dream location. Now here's the cool part. Chandler James can help you find and negotiate terms on your next restaurant location. They represent both retail tenants and landlords in our market which means they can also help you with lease versus buy decisions and act as your leasing agent should you ever decide to go all in and purchase commercial real estate. If you'd like to get ahold of them, give them a call at the office. Their phone number is 615-751-2340. That is the Chandler James retail team. Give them a call today.

44:40Y'all today we are talking as always about SuperSource and you know one cool thing about SuperSource is did you know that they develop most of their cleaning products and chemicals in their in-house facility? They're environmentally conscious and only use dyes that are safe for the employees and the environment. They carry a number of products for keeping your dishes, flatware, services, floors, restrooms, laundry, basically your entire facility clean, bright and smelling and feeling new. This is just one of the many reasons SuperSource is taking over this city for dish machine and chemicals. You need to call Jason Ellis. His number is 770-337-1143 and he would love it if you would give him a call and let him come down and just check out your operation, meet him, say hi, see if there's any way he can help. He is here to help you succeed. That's Jason Ellis with SuperSource, 770-337-1143. And so that- It doesn't look like a QSR.

45:43It looks like a sit down restaurant. Yeah, it does. And so it just doesn't, those feelings don't add up for people. So that's been, you know, super interesting, but like you have to pivot. You have to be able to pivot fast. I feel really lucky that we had borrowed taku in the tank ready to go. And you had people that loved it. And you get to bring things back that people- It's all about nostalgia right now. That's 100%. What I live off of is nostalgia and like what people's, you know, favorite, like we basically are like, if it's not nostalgic, it's not in our purview to do, like personally for the grilled cheesery, but I love that. And I think bringing back the izakaya and like the borrowed taku stuff, like I think that you're gonna get all those people back like, okay, that's a late night place and you're gonna have industry night on Sunday nights. I think if, can you talk about that? Cause that's so exciting. Thanks for bringing it up. I mean, you know, borrowed taku, well, first of all, like, you know, losing a restaurant is so painful. It is the kind of like failure pain that you can't even describe.

46:48I feel like we need like a, we need a group. Like we need to go come to the race somewhere together. Just cry and then be like, suck it up and then like get back to it. Exactly. It is, it is a, you know, I've failed a lot and I think that is important. You have to fail or as my father would say, sure, lose money, but make sure you got the money to lose. Oh, that's good. Right? Yeah. So, but when we pivoted to borrow taku, it just felt like so much fun. It was so easy and so natural. We were heartbroken to have to let go of that restaurant, but we had to with COVID. And so, you know, Brad, he's just like, clear it all out. I was like, not that grill, not those plates. We're keeping those. I had to fight him tooth and nail. And then when we, when we literally were like a day away from opening East, I was like, we're gonna have to turn it into an Iskaya. I was like, it's just too damn big. You know, you just don't know until you know, like this is the hardest thing about what we do, right?

47:52Like, you know, you don't know that something is too big or you don't know that something is in the wrong neighborhood until you know. Oh, we were going through that today. I mean, we, when we looked at Chagos for the first time, you're looking at Belmont Boulevard, right across street from the Fisher Center, there was a big sign on the grass across the street that said, we love Chagos, because they were going, it was like the last weekend. You're like, man, the community really loves this place. And they had, and it was packed and all these people showing up to say goodbye. And we were like, wow, I mean, this is a great, this location's fantastic and we're excited. And then, you know, this community loves it. Then you reopen it and people are like, yeah, there's no parking. And we don't have any parking and you have to Uber. But then, and we've priced it just outside of the Belmont students, because we wanted to focus on the community. But now the community is kind of like, why'd you guys reopen that place? And we're like, what do you mean? We thought that it was a whole community and it's just been a challenge. It's been a challenge because we changed everything. We had that experience right next to you when I worked for Arnold Mint when we were the top of this restaurant.

48:55Cha Cha. It was a PM, Cha Cha. Did you work at Cha Cha? I was a sous chef there. Oh my God, I didn't know that. Cha Cha. Right when I moved from California, I got the job. That was my first job. And then that was- We sold you guys produce. Yeah, you did. From Creation Gardens. Oh, from Creation. That was when you were with Creation. So we, he spent, so that building next to Chago's, that's his grandmother's house. And so, you know- The building next to Chago's or Chago's? The building next to Chago's. Athens, which is Athens now. No, international market. Okay, the one that's international market now. The one that's international market now. International market too. It was his grandmother's house. And so they turned that into Arnold's project because he went to school in New York and culinary school in New York. And then he, anyways, he was inspired by Small Bites and it was just, Nashville didn't receive it. We were busy until we weren't. And then it wasn't- Shiny Penny Syndrome. Shiny Penny Syndrome. And he did everything. He was on Top Chef when that restaurant was open.

49:56And it's like, how much more could you promote something? I mean, he's- Now with his James Beard nomination, being on the long list- We'll talk about pivoting. Now it's international market too. I mean, that restaurant has gone through so many pivots itself. Again, he saw it wasn't working. He thought the community would receive it and it didn't. He had to pivot. But that's kind of the mark of someone who knows, I'm not gonna give up, you know? And I think that's what we're talking about here. Sarah has gone through so many pivots, but she's not giving up. And I think that's the sign of a true- I don't have the luxury of giving up. And also you don't have a luxury. I mean, what do you do? You don't just be like, I can't do it. And it closes. You still have all this- File for bankruptcy, that's my only option. Yeah, that's the only option. And that will stay with you forever. I mean, that's the difference between someone who works at a restaurant and who owns a restaurant. It is actually gonna affect your family and your home. Steven always says in our restaurants, he goes, I'm the only one in the company who can't quit.

50:57Yeah, say it. I can't walk in tomorrow and go, fuck you guys, I'm done. I'm not doing this. My husband says that to our managers all the time. He's like, I'm not going anywhere, guys. I can't quit. This is it. I'm gonna be here, hell or high water. Anybody else in this building can leave tomorrow, if you so choose. I lose my home and other things when this happens. So it's a different perspective. Yeah, same. I think that that always kind of, it's Todd, our director of ops and partner, he's much better at dealing with that kind of stuff day to day in the restaurant where people are like, yeah, you live in a mansion, don't you? I'm like, no, but I have a lot of debt. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of the things that I love the most about what I do is passing it down. I heard someone say this, and this is by no means to say that I believe that I have fully mastered this job because I haven't, that when you master something, it's your moral imperative to send the elevator back down.

52:00And actually, it was Kevin Spacey that said that. We won't judge Kevin for his misgivings at this moment. That statement I thought was really, really clever. But I spend a lot of time with people that are three, four years behind me trying to help them understand. I also had this uncle growing up. He was CEO, Fortune 500 CEO. I called him Lace Up Shoes because he was just like soup, NRA, card carrying, South Pittsburgh, Tennessee, was the CEO of Central Soya, ended up starting a temp company with his son, they're worth billions now, sold it to the French, bought it back, built it again, like really, really smart guy. Wow. And he used to always say to me, don't make the same mistakes I've made. And it used to piss me off. And I never really understood why it made me so mad. It was definitely like the male dominated, you can't succeed because you're a woman kind of a feeling that I always got from him.

53:05But he was right. And I didn't discover that until a lot later. And that's when I started making it really a big part of my every day to send the elevator back down. Because you also learn from other people, even if they're not as far along as you, like there's only so many places to get information, right? And every day you can gather and pivot that information based on what you learn. It's just learning how fast to respond. I think the thing that I see the most right now is that there are so many young businesses in Nashville that want a brick and mortar and they're all shopping for brick and mortars. Slow your roll, kids. Don't do it right now. Don't do it right now. There are going to be massive closings. The closings are gonna start any day and it's gonna be a fire sale. And on my end, I see it where people wanna start food trucks and they're like pre what you're talking about, like pre-pre.

54:08It's like start the food truck and then just kinda see if that works. And then now we're going to a brick and mortar. These are two completely separate businesses. Two completely separate customers, business models. Cooking out of a commissary food truck is completely one type of business and cooking at a restaurant and running a restaurant with employees that is open eight, nine hours a day is a completely different model. So one does not lead into the other. And people will come to me because we've been a food truck for 12 years. I have this idea and I'm like, well, what is your end goal? Do you want a restaurant or do you want a catering company? Do you want time to yourself? Because I started food trucks, I thought like, okay, I'm done with the 10 hour work days. I wanna serve the masses at this time and I wanna be able to take a couple weeks off in the winter because it's too cold to operate. I wanted a work life balance. Now do you want that or do you wanna, what is the goal? And if you can't answer that, then I think maybe just travel a bit or just experience.

55:14Because talk about a business plan, you don't even know what you want. It's so, I'm constantly grabbing things that people said to me and trying to apply them as I'm doing this work with others. I was lucky enough to get to know the guys that started Bar Taco in Barcelona and sold it for $450 million. Very, very smart men in the right place at the right time, started after the recession, sold before the recession. That'll never happen again, that valuation. That valuation was one of a kind. And when I met them and served them, the very first question they asked me was why? Why do you wanna do this? You're bored? You wanna lose money? Why? And that's like that, you've been in that position the same amount of times I have, Crystal, where you're like, you're young, you want it so bad, you're so desperate, you're like, my desperation is gonna pull me through. It is just my pure, I'm not stopping. That's how I'm gonna get it. How did you answer that question to those gentlemen when they asked you that question?

56:17I struggled to answer that question. And I had to do a lot of soul searching to find the answer to that question. Which is? My why is that I love making people happy with food. It is truly what gets me out of bed in the morning. It's what started this whole thing for me. It's the whole reason I started to cook. My grandmother's manicotti recipe. Yeah. And that's it. And like, you know, it's interesting because you don't really recognize the moments in the moments. You have to really look back for them. Like my grandmother's manicotti, my family's Sicilian, I never really cooked growing up. I would be in the kitchen with all the ladies and I would do what they asked me to do but I never really showed a lot of interest in it until I got to college for some reason and I just missed it. And I was like, I need to make this dish. And I mean, this is way pre-cell phone, right? I like call my grandmother in Florida. I'm like, no, no, I wanna make manicotti and I'll never forget it. She like pulls the phone away and she goes, Tony, this is gonna be a long call.

57:17Like we were on the phone for hours, you know? And she like gave me everything I needed. I went, I got it, we were on the phone. She walked me through the whole thing. No video call, right? And I served it and I watched a table full of people just start laughing and they were happy. And like, I just stood there and I was like, well, shit, this just made everybody happy. And so those moments, they stay with you and then you're like all of a sudden willing to do anything. You're willing to like lose everything to do this. Well, this is what Margo told me on my second episode I ever did is she says, I don't know what we're gonna do when we close because this is my love. This is how I give love. I come in the kitchen, I make food for my neighbors and my friends and everybody who comes in here and I give it to them and this is how I show them love. And then by them eating it and experiencing the restaurant, that's how I receive love. And if I can't do this, that's gonna be really hard for me. Oh my God, I feel like I'm gonna cry. I know, me too. It's one of those moments that it was for me too, it was a really powerful moment for me to hear that.

58:22And I was like, you just encapsulated how I think a lot of people feel out there right now who are afraid because that's what we do. I think it's so interesting that those of us that choose to serve for a living, literally serve others, whether you're a school teacher, you're a fireman, you're a policeman, a first responder, like all of these things or you own a restaurant and you serve food for a living. It is interesting how our relationship to the public has changed. And that is what this year has really, really taught me. And that honestly, I think anonymity is the new luxury. I want to be invisible. But you can't. I can't, I don't have that luxury. Because if you're invisible, then people don't, there's not a human connection with your brand. Yeah, I know. And after having my daughter, I didn't wanna be, I was like, oh, I'm a mom now. I can't do this and that. I don't wanna go on that game show and pretend that I care so much about doing a dumb cooking challenge.

59:25I don't care about that anymore. And it showed and I needed to soul search. I needed to fall back in love with it again. So when we bought back our company, I had a choice. And I fell back in love with it again because now I only have one. I'm getting a second chance to kind of build it back up. Good for you. But I could have easily been like, I think we're done. Because I need to just figure out who I am. And it shows because then it trickles down. Your staff, your team, they all kind of follow suit. And if you're not super uber passionate about something and they're not kind of passionate about it, your customers are never gonna get that. And that's why we have to do the podcasts and the TV things. And we have to put ourself out there on social media because we have to exude that. And it feels like you just wanna be by yourself. I'm like, no, I don't wanna talk to anybody right now.

01:00:26Yeah, I didn't get into this to be famous. I didn't get into this to be in front of the camera either. Like that is the one thing I really didn't expect. I just didn't. And I don't think I'll ever get used to it. I spent 25 years behind the camera. So being in front of it is, and listen, I love giving my opinions, we all know this. But I think that it is, I joke around and say that I feel like the way people see me is white middle-aged housewife makes ramen, news at 11. Oh my God, I would never, I would never ever think that. Yeah, well the kids, the reddit kids see me that way. And that's okay, and the reddit kids think I have, what was my favorite one? She clearly has an ego the size of a parade float. Guess what, lady, you got to do this. Oh my God. Guess what, you gotta have that. Well I think this show is the antithesis of the, let's build these, I think this is just real talk though.

01:01:30I mean I think this is a fun thing to be able to hear this. I'm sitting here thinking about this conversation. If I was listening to this conversation in my car, I would be like, wow, I had no idea all of these things, all the emotions around what we do. And it's like when you put this much time in you, this is how you give love and somebody goes, eh, you could do better. It's like, go fuck yourself. You just want to go over and smack somebody. It's like, I'm just trying to provide a hot meal that's consistent, that's great, that's gonna make, our mission is what can I do to make every guest a repeat guest while nourishing our community. That's it, that's our mission. And then our purpose, if we go to the EOS thing, is to serve people, that's what we do. But that's the thing, how do I make, how do I want you to feel warm when you leave, when you leave our restaurant, any one of them, I want you to feel warm and go, well I don't know if you got hit, your dog got hit by a car before you walked in, you won the lottery, you got divorced, whatever it is.

01:02:31Our job is just, doesn't matter what your state of mind is, but when you leave, you're better. You're like, wow, I feel full, the food is delicious, and I feel like, I feel good, I want to do that again. And that's our goal. And a lot of times people don't see that or they have their own agenda coming in and it's frustrating and you just have to keep pulling it on every day. You have to find the people that really get it and love it and lean into it because if you don't have those, it'll drive you nuts. He's laying in bed and your brain just. Oh yeah, I've been there, and at my lowest moment, my daughter, who's 20, pointed something out to me that really helped me float through this. She's like, what's ironic, your mom, is that the people that are the most butthurt by what you do are the people that are probably the most butthurt in life over anything. Oh yeah, well you have to be if you're gonna say something like that. Yeah, and if you're gonna join that kind of a conversation or even be the one to start that conversation, I think that's kind of interesting. But, you know, the tune out the haters bit, it's real and you have to, you have to do that.

01:03:36I think that I, I remember when I was an agent, when I was still in entertainment, a similar thing happened to me and I was really young. I mean, I was like 23 and I had scooped this cinematographer that everybody wanted. Like, I found him, he was shooting for Floria Zigasmondi, this incredible, really dark kind of female director, they were both from Canada. I flew up there, met with him, signed him. It was a big fucking deal getting this guy. It made my whole agency fly and it was the reason I was able to sell my agency was because of this one client. And I went to him and I was, you know, he came to town, we went to dinner and I was like, so, he's like, I'm gonna sign with you and I was like, holy shit, every single agent in all of Hollywood wanted him. And I was like, why are you gonna sign with me over all these other people? And he said, because I wanna be represented by my peers. And I was like, well, hell yes.

01:04:37And then, this thing that would go on in the industry, I don't know if it goes on anymore, it was called first hold, second hold, third hold and they were blind holds, so you could lie about it, right? Like, if you didn't wanna do a project, you would just be like, I can give you a third hold. And, you know, the big directors, they would be like, I need a first hold or I'm not giving you a hold. And so, it was all this like smoke and mirrors bullshit that had gone on for years. And like, you know, 23 year old me is like, I'm not giving holds, I'm gonna give him the script and I'm gonna give him the storyboard and he's gonna decide if he wants to do it, the end. Like, no more smoke and mirrors. Ridley Scott's producer fucking kicked my teeth in so hard. I mean, I have never been kicked that hard. And it was public and we're not, we're talking like before social media, okay? This was when you had to actually walk into a business to do business. And I walk into RSA, which is Ridley Scott Associates, you know, and I had named my company, The Tenth House.

01:05:41And it was a name that meant astrologically, like if you have a lot of planets in The Tenth House, you're very passionately and artistically married to your work, that's why I chose it. But what's ironic about it is that when people would say it over the loud speaker, it would sound like Penthouse. They would be like, Ridley, Sarah from Penthouse is here. Penthouse. It was so funny. So it just like worked to my advantage in the weirdest, most hilarious way. And so I go in to like show the reel. They're like, we wanna book Chris. And I mean, she walks out into the lobby and fucking has at me in front of like 50 people. So this is not the first time I've been beaten in public kids. So, you know. And that's not even, I mean, I know you, that's not even anything. You've dealt with so many other things privately, but like not so public. I mean, like, I was like, oh, this is, I didn't think this even fazed you as much as it probably did. It fazed me. I know, I mean, now I'm hearing that and that makes me sad and more angry.

01:06:42But I was just like, I read that and I was like, oh, she's gonna get it. I think the thing. Sarah's gonna give it to her. Yeah. Caroline messaged me and Caroline jumped right in on that thing. And she was like, did you see this shit? And I was like, what the? But the industry people that know Sarah were like, I can't wait to see what Sarah says. I mean, like. This had to be the silent. Because we know she's gonna respond. Silent, yeah, that was the dumbest thing I've ever done is respond. I think you took the high road. Tried to. You said, hey look, I'm the owner of the restaurant and now that this magazine, which is supposed to be building people up has taken on a review platform. That's a different animal. I didn't know this is what they were doing. If you have an issue with anything, feel free to contact me. But you basically raised your hand and said, hey, here I am. I'm not gonna hide. That was my first instinct. I'll own whatever it is. I owned it 100% and got absolutely crucified for it. Which again, that is okay. Like all of these things you learn, you have to be able to digest it, take what you need from it and move on.

01:07:50But I think that what people don't really calculate is how it's going to affect you when you are in a low moment like that. Like when you feel attacked by everything around you. I've been through it several times because when you're an entrepreneur, this is what you choose. You gotta choose the highs and lows. You don't get to live the same kind of life everybody else lives. You don't get to go party every weekend. You don't get to do all those things. So it is truly, truly a lifestyle that we live and you have to take the good with the bad. I think going back to what you said, Crystal, like I really respect you for doing that soul searching and finding your way back to standing firm and tall for your business and for your original passion and what you do. I think I'm in a moment of crisis with that if I'm being really honest.

01:08:51Yeah, like I don't, I love sharing with people. I love doing it intimately. I don't like doing it publicly. And I think when I wrote the cookbook, it was such an honor to even be asked most difficult experience of my life. I know you told me that. And when we went to do the promotion for the cookbook, we had a party at the restaurant. I was losing Little Octopus, yeah. Oh, so you're in pain the whole time. And that was like, Little Octopus, which people, I don't know if people, I mean, some people don't know this. That's like, that was like your nickname and like this was like a passion for you. It was beautiful. And we loved Little Octopus. I was like, oh, that was my favorite place. And when it was a pop-up, that was like, I was always there. And when it was in the East Spot, and then you moved to the Gold, I mean, it was such a beautiful restaurant.

01:09:51I mean, just everything. And I can only imagine. Because I had, I mean, I've had that, you lost that, I've lost what I, my favorite store was my Franklin shop. We all have this thing where like, our friends did the wallpaper. And then it's like every little jar. It's an expression of love. We put so much thought into every little thing and then to lose it and then it happened so fast. And you just kind of like are so heartbroken. And then you're just like, oh, everything changes. You never realize when you're opening a restaurant how long you have with the restaurant. There's so many factors and people don't understand like how that will stay with you. I mean, Joseph still hasn't gone back to Franklin. He can't. Because he helped design it. So to see it just like kind of, you know, whatever it is now, I don't even know what it is now, but like a liquor store, a wine shop or something.

01:10:51And so he just can't like, it just like, it kills him. You know, it kind of, where I am right now, I'm really trying to like turn this around in myself. I got 15 years into music and I was like, I don't want to hear another fucking song. I can't listen to music. I'm so tired of it. I'm over it. Kind of there with food a little bit. Like I'm at the 15 year point and I'm like, I hate food. Like something weird happens to me. It must be a part of my like severe ADHD where I am just so deep down a rabbit hole that you become like you almost drown on your own excitement. Well, you know what's exciting is making a bowl of ramen for somebody at your home and giving it to somebody and seeing that joy. You are so far away from that now. No, it's true. Like I am so far away from actually, well, when we had three restaurants, cooking, cause I had a team of people doing that. I was so many people away from making a sandwich for somebody.

01:11:53Right. Like when now I actually am still prepping in the kitchen and I am still doing a lot of like the cookies you taste or the cookies that I actually made. Like that, I went back to that and that's where I found that again. That's purpose that comes back to, do you had to rejigger your purpose? And that is the hardest thing about expansion. If you don't really, really, really, really explore why you are expanding in the first place, and if you are not 800% comfortable with it, when people call you mid and cringe, it's gonna fucking hurt. But you have to be honest with yourself about why you're doing it. And mine is our mission from day one is to serve ramen to the ramen less. That is it. There you go. So yeah, I'm gonna take the hits. I'm gonna take the pain. I'm gonna take the debt. I'm gonna take all the things that it takes to do this. And I think, you know, I want to believe that we're not, that there are still recipes that haven't been written, that there are still stories that haven't been told.

01:12:55I'm not sure if I believe it. You know what I mean? Like just with the way that we are today with the sharing of information and the overload of everything all the time and like the barriers to entry to, you know, what did Andy Warhol say? Everybody wants to be famous for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 15 minutes of fame. 15 minutes of fame, yeah. And so everybody wants their 15 minutes of fame where I think that it can serve you but it cannot serve you a lot too. So I just watched. It's not sustainable. No, it is. It just isn't sustainable. And you know, when we're, you know, any of us that are in multiples, we all see like what are the trends? What are the trends? The trends for this year were like TikTok recipes and like, you know, having influencers come in and you're just like, oh, oh my God. This is how it felt in music when Spotify arrived. Exact same feeling. For real. I mean, so, you know, the barriers to entry all the way around in all industries are changing. The reasons why you do what you do are changing.

01:13:57Everything is changing. I mean, I make hot ramen and the earth is getting hotter every day. You don't think I don't think about that? I mean, for real, like maybe we're gonna have to move to Michigan. Probably will. Yeah. You know? And like, will our next unit be in the South? No, it will not. Yeah. The next unit will be somewhere in the Rust Belt. Where it doesn't get as hot. I find myself, my moment of clarity is Green Hills Grill on Friday night. I get frustrated with people that don't share an ownership mentality. Because I'm, this is my, in here talking with you guys, talk with people that are invested, that are doing this thing. I love, and I love working with other restaurateurs because I'm not emotionally invested in their business. And we have a really good model. I've been doing this for 30 years. And so I can see things in other people and I love helping other restaurateurs. That's where I feel like I gain energy these days is working with other people who have it on the line who care.

01:15:05I find myself increasingly more when I'm in the restaurant work, people who don't give a shit, or when somebody says it's just a fucking server job or it's just this, it's just that. I can't fault people because this is a job that they come in and they wanna do. But I'm wholly invested here and I wanna do this and you don't care. And it's some of that stuff to me over and over the cyclical side of that year in, year out. I think I just find fatigue. It is so hard, but we can't ask them to care as much. I know, that's what I'm saying. For a myriad of reasons, generational and their involvement. I read this article, maybe it was a meme, but it stuck with me where, no, it was an article in the Atlantic a couple years ago talking about everyone shits on millennials, says blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm a millennial. But we're actually the first generation that knows we're gonna boil to death in the ocean, but we still show up every day to sell sunglasses. That one stuck with me. I was like, well, shit, he's kinda right.

01:16:07And so, you kind of have to give that whole pass for, it's just difficult, how do you operate within that kind of mind frame? Because I can't tell any more stories about how I slept under my desk, nobody fucking cares. Yeah, yeah, and I think you're right. I think how do you get people to care while they're there? I always tell them, I know, I mean, they're working, we have Belmont Vanderbilt students. I mean, clearly, they're not gonna do this forever. I mean, specifically us, this is just their after school job. My whole thing to them is the way you work or the way you make a sandwich is how you're going to be as a doctor, it's a work ethic. It doesn't matter what you do, it matters how you do it and how you show up. If you're late, if you're not present, if you're not making the most out of the situation you're in, why are you even doing what you're, it's like, it really- That's being so lost in our society. It really- It's a great question. I know, and you're so absent. I think that have a good time with the people around you.

01:17:08Get to know somebody that you probably would have never met. It's a fun job if you wanna make it fun. You can have a lot of fun in a restaurant. And I think for us, we need that because we have an open kitchen. We want people to enjoy their time. I'm like, what are your choices here? Your choices are to have a terrible experience, come in, and you're not gonna make it here because we also don't wanna be around you. So this isn't gonna work out for anybody. I feel like overall, people are not well. Like, oh, they're not. I'll tell you, we really, really, really had to, there have been some very interesting moments in Franklin. I've been called a Nazi because I don't take cash. Oh. That was an interesting one. Twice, actually. First a communist and then a Nazi. Oh, interesting. And I literally had to be like, sir, can we step aside? Oh, this was in person? Person. Like to your face? To my face. Oh, wow. And I had to say, sir, I'd like to acknowledge your discontent, but let's review what communism actually is, shall we?

01:18:08Oh my God, you actually entertained him. How did you go in? I said, I got it right here on my phone. Yeah. Yeah. Let's read it. It's socialism. So how does me not taking cash make me a socialist? Because I know I'm not a Nazi and let's not go there. Oh my God. Let's find another name for me. Is there something else you'd like to call me, sir? Because that's not the right word. Just the correct thing. You could find a better insult. Let's find one. Let's go. I mean, just, that's amazing. Yeah. But that person is not gonna. Not well. Not well. Not well. So that, I think that is like what we've suffered, like for talking about like how we really suffer as owners. That's the kind of stuff that really gets you over time is that you're here to serve and you're being spit on. That is the hardest thing about what we do. Really. I agree. I completely agree. I wanna change gears. Can we change gears? Because we're at the hour mark. We've already been doing this. We've been doing this for an hour. And it goes by like that. So fast. It's amazing. I just got to spend some time with you the other night.

01:19:10The week before last, we were both at the Giving Kitchens, Tennessee tasting. Yes. And I love any chance I can to talk about the Giving Kitchen and what the Giving Kitchen does. But you and I are both on the Tennessee Engagement Council for the Giving Kitchen. You've incorporated this like throughout your restaurant. And you had Hannah, was it, that was there. She was lovely. I really enjoyed meeting her. She's super sharp. Tell me about your involvement with the Giving Kitchen. Yeah, so it's actually a really fun story. And it goes all the way back to the very beginning of my cooking career. So it does. And so when I first started doing the pop-up, I would get all these beautiful, random, like people just contacting me, being, hey, I see what you're doing. Is there's anything I can do to help you? And so there was this guy named Dennis Lang, who is a long time known in the industry in Atlanta. And he lived in Japan and ran an Izakaya restaurant.

01:20:12And he just reached out to me and was like, hey, is there anything I can do to help? And we ended up becoming friends. And he ended up coming up here and cooking with me and teaching me a lot. And then he's like, hey, come down to Atlanta and do this benefit with us. It's called Team Hitty. And this friend of ours, Ryan, he's very tragically just been diagnosed with cancer and we've all come together and we're gonna do this benefit. That was the first team, Heidi. The very first team, Heidi. And guess what? We actually, Brad and I came up with the whole construct for the actual night. And we came up with all the creative. We did all the creative for it. We didn't even know them. No kidding. Yeah, and you know who my sous chef, I say this in air quotes, my sous chef was for the night, Eric Anderson. Oh my God. What a full circle moment for you. Isn't that amazing? Well, I mean, Eric was that he, if we're calling someone my chef, he's my chef. He's the one that put me out there and made this all happen for me. And for people don't know, Eric Anderson was one of the chefs at the Capric. The OG with Josh Hobbiger.

01:21:13No, he has one Michelin star. And so we did like an uni sabayon maziman with corn. Like I'd never be able to pull that off without him, right? And we went down there and we did this event. And oh my God, I was like, this, this is why I wanna do this. This is why I wanna be in this industry. And when you're coming from being on a movie set, that feels like home, right? That kind of an environment where you're all thrown in together, it feels like home. And so then when I always stayed in touch with Team Hitty, and then when it moved into Giving Kitchen, I just really, you know, always wanted to be involved. And I mean, anybody that knows Jen, you know, you'd follow her till the ends of the earth. You really would. And she's so deeply inspirational and it's just a simple concept that works. We raise money and give grants to hospitality workers in need, period. It's not complicated.

01:22:14And there's a lot of hospitality workers in need. There are. And really like, I think when it coalesced for us how powerful this opportunity was, was like post COVID, everyone's like freaking out, like, how are we getting people back to work? What benefits do we offer? How can we help people? We have to be their mother, their father, their accountant, their shrink, their real estate agent. We have to do all this for people or we can't get them to come to work. Well, that's a really easy one. We've got Giving Kitchen. It's a massive thing. So no, there's not a single restaurant owner out there that shouldn't be in the same position that the three of us are, which is deeply invested in Giving Kitchen. A hundred percent. And they are, I mean, that's no strings attached. You don't have to give money. I mean, it's great if you can figure out a way to give money, but you know, like I said, the other night at the event, I had a bartender who was diagnosed with breast cancer. She came to me and said, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna be out of work for a month. They caught it early. I think I'm gonna be okay, but I have to have surgery and I'm gonna be out a month and I'm afraid of what I'm gonna do.

01:23:17And they came in and helped her do everything. And she still works with us. She's great. I mean, everything's, she's healthy and doing well and didn't lose her house and all of the stuff. And it's all because these people cared enough to go in and help restaurant workers. And it's available to anybody out there. Anybody out there. And I think that, you know, anybody listening that eats in restaurants, dines out a lot, you should give money to Giving Kitchen. If you want to help the industry, give money to Giving Kitchen. We're gonna come up with a million different ways for you guys to do that, to interact with us in our restaurants, all of those things where you can do that. A dollar here, a dollar there. We're all being asked for money. It's a terrible year for that. And nobody wants to get a single other text asking for money to be given. But if you wanna go out to eat and you wanna enjoy all of the spoils that we have built for you in this city, there's really no other way to do it. And I think, you know, I also wanna give a shout out to anybody that is listening to this podcast that is in an adjacent of the hospitality industry that is in a position to write a big check.

01:24:25Think long and hard about how you're connected to this industry and what your industry, what your position can do to give back to, holistically, to what we're trying to build here in Nashville. It's like, you know, we started, when this all started, everybody was on this beautiful high. We're all riding high, we're all building. Nashville's the it city. Now the more is more is caught up with all of us. And I think that as Nashville continues to welcome more and more restaurants, more and more operators from outside the city will be coming in paying $100 a square foot and making it even more difficult for some of the smaller restaurants that you all love to exist and to serve our employees in the best way that we can. You know, think about the industry holistically and that's what this organization does is it serves the entire industry. We are supported by Robins Insurance, a local insurance agency providing customized insurance policies, sound guidance and attentive service.

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01:27:43Order through best brands and please remember to drink responsibly. There's so many things we can unpack there. I know. I mean, the importance of dining local and how every food service worker impacts your life. If you've ever gone out to eat and you're frustrated, why do I have to wait this long? Or what is it? Like these are, it's a very worthy cause that affects everybody. And they have figured it out. And Jen, like you said, Jen Heidinger Kendrick, her late husband, Ryan, the initial event, he was diagnosed with cancer and sadly he did not make it, but they had this big event, this team, Heidi, the original one in Atlanta, they guess you helped put the whole thing together. This year was year 11. So this was the 11th year of team Heidi. And there's people that have all the wristbands from every year raised over a million dollars this year for the first time, but it is a massive event. And it is so much fun to see all the people in Atlanta come together. And then to see everybody come together in Nashville wasn't quite as big, but we're getting there.

01:28:47We're getting, I think Nashville has the potential to be a massive, massive hub for them. I mean, Atlanta's, you know, it's 50 years of hospitality in that city, right? So we have a long way to go. It is interesting to me though, like if we go back to the very beginning of this conversation about how, you know, you're from Los Angeles, I lived there for 20 years. Originally from there. And you're originally from there. So if we like- Orange County. And I was out the other night and I was sitting across from a food publicist and she made a comment about how another publicist had moved in from out of town and had started calling people's clients. And that just wasn't how we do things here. And myself and the other person that was sitting with me both went, what do you mean? That's naive. That's how it's done everywhere. And I think that's where we are. That's where we are as a city. And I think that that is how we're gonna see all of this start to grow.

01:29:48But you know, I think the other thing, like again, everybody listening to this needs to know what holds us back, Nashville, from being a place like Atlanta. When it comes to not being as big or as having many restaurants, we probably have more restaurants per capita than Atlanta does now actually. No, for real. I'm almost certain of it. I don't have the stat, but I would guess that we do. Is that you have to really, you have to have the pieces of the industry that support you, the Restaurant Association, lobbying. All of these things are going to catch up to us if we don't get them. If we don't get a National Restaurant Association chapter here in Tennessee, it will catch up to us. I'll talk to you when we get off, Mike. Oh, wow. I've got some things, interesting stuff that I'm not willing to discuss yet, but in that vein of something that is a possibility coming very soon.

01:30:49I think the point is that we need the infrastructure isn't set up. We all kind of were, okay, oh, we don't have this. We don't have that. This is my passion. I'm going to throw it at the wall. Some of it stuck, some of it didn't. We've cycled through so many concepts and people have come and gone, even if they're fantastic, but they did not know how to run a business. I think you're right. We need small business support. We need proper accountants helping that know how to run, help with small business CFOs. We need that. They have healthcare. They have lobbyists. Exactly. They have a lot of things that we're going to need, and to have a strong foundation. We may be a right to work state, but there are still unions here and they are still coming. So all of these things, other cities have grappled with and dealt with, and it feels like Nashville has this arrogance as if that's not going to happen, but it is. It is. 100%. I mean, I feel, I mean, tell me if I'm alone here that Nashville's kind of overall more is more mentality feels very arrogant to me.

01:31:59Oh, well, I mean, I think specifically maybe more of the downtown kind of that whole vibe feels like grossly that, you know? Like it's just so much. There's so much on top of, stacked on top of each other that is like, look at me over here. Look at me over here. Like it's so much money being poured into that specific area. I think that I get that from there, but I mean, God, so many other areas are starting to do that. It's just spreading out now. Now it's hard to compete. And if you, but if you like from my little bitty vantage point on the bottom of the hill here, I look at companies that are investing in Nashville, right? You got Oracle, you got Alliance Bernstein, you've got, you know, all is on Amazon. You've got a Bridgestone. You've got all these things that are happening that all these companies that have come to Nashville, they prop themselves up and they prop their presentations for how to get their employees here up on us.

01:33:00We drive these decisions. So how do they feed us, right? That's my big question is how does this holistically work? Because if we're all going to be in this city together, if the large industries that are coming here are using hospitality and entertainment as their reason, like a guy from Alliance Bernstein said to me that the reason that they decided to move here is because they believe that Nashville is going to be the number one city for the emerging creative class. I think he's wrong, but I could be wrong. They know a lot of shit. So if you think about it from that point of view, we do need more support to get where we need to go. And I think what I'm most worried about is the next phase in all of this, not just for owners, but really for employees. I mean, we're all seeing the job market is tightening, which is a little bit better for us as employers, but behavior is changing both from the buyer and from the person that works for us.

01:34:00We've had more giving kitchen claims in the last six months than we had in the last two years. Oh, wow. Wow. So people need it more than ever. And I think like, you know, we're doing industry night. There's a Kaia is going late night this weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, five to 11. And Sunday is our dedicated industry night. I'm gonna have giving kitchen shit everywhere, every single Sunday. I am going to make sure that any industry worker that walks through my door knows about it. Conservation work was how I started. I was in ocean conservation for a long time. And I call it my retirement career. That's what I'll do when I no longer do this. But I think I really underestimated how important it was for me to do this work because it counterbalances all the me, me, me, me, me shit we have to do. And I struggle with that a lot. I'm an only child. It comes very naturally to me to be me, me, me. I'm very selfish by nature. It's the truth.

01:35:01Oh my God, how are you teaching Augusta not to be that? Maybe it's because she just. As her daughter. Yeah, like. Who's an only child. Right, you just kind of see the, you go the opposite direction of your parents. Like, I don't want to be like her. Isn't it funny, all of this restaurant, like chef women only have one child. We're like, oh, that's enough. I have a few friends that are like one and done. Like, I can't do that whole thing after. I was two and done. I was like one for each of us. One for, yeah, see. We can play man on man. I don't want to be outnumbered, that's for sure. Yeah, I think if my first one hadn't been such a wild child, I may have had a second. Yeah, same, same. I'm like, you don't seem like you want another person taking attention away from you. I'm scared. My oldest is like, he's going to be an insurance collie. Like, he's one of those guys that like, can calculate risk really well. And he's like, you know, I don't really think that's a good decision because the thing can happen here. Oh my God. At the time he's calculating this, he can look over to his brother and be like, are you going to do it? And he's like, I've already done it four times. Like, while you were sitting here, I've already done it like four, he's the crate.

01:36:02The second one is the absolute insane crazy one. He just dives right in, doesn't even think about it. The other one's like, I don't know, the wind is a little high for this. This doesn't seem like this is a safe decision. I totally would have had a second kid if I had gotten that. Yeah, yeah. I got head first first. Yeah. Yeah, that went straight, didn't crawl, went straight to running and literally would run down the beach 250 yards at, I don't know, 10 months old. And I'm like, she's going to look back. She's going to, she's not going to look back. I gotta run. Yeah. I gotta go catch them. I know, and then that moment comes and you've got it coming, Crystal, where they'll be like 16 and that like, mom. She already does that. But like, I got it. Like stop babying me, mom. I got it. We were at a kindergarten like event, meet the parents thing at East Nashville Brew Works last week and she went into the play area and there were a bunch of new kids. And I followed her and she was like, look back. She said, no, mom, you stay over there with the other parents.

01:37:04And I was like, huh? I was so taken aback and I'm like, you don't even know anybody. And she just was like, don't follow me in here. Like how old is she? Five. That's an amazing son. She was like, don't come over here. And like, try to be the one to be like, this is Luna. You know, like, cause I usually try to help her be a little more social. And she was just like, don't do that. Like she wanted me back with the other parents. That was so weird. I had one turn nine last week and he had a soccer game on Saturday at noon. We're having his birthday party that afternoon. So my wife stayed home to prepare all the stuff, right? I took him to the game. I'm sitting there watching the game and he does not like it when you yell or you cheer for him. Like, I mean, nothing. So embarrassing. I'm not kidding. I'm standing at the Williamson County soccer fields out in Franklin. I'm right in the 50 midfield. I don't know what you'd call it. I'm not a big soccer guy.

01:38:05The kid is standing there talking to somebody. I go, Matthew, run, go down the field. He literally walks and goes, shut up, dad. Stop yelling. Like walks over to the sideline and straight up tells me to shut up. I mean, I went from like, go to, oh, buddy. Like, you don't know what. I was mortified and I'm like, and you can't be like, get in the car. Get in the car. You're in the middle of a game. Yeah. But this conditions us for our restaurants. Oh yeah. It really humbles you. Oh, there was a moment I was like, whoa. He just walked up and told me to shut up in front of every other parent. And every other parent is like, oh, what are you gonna take then? And I'm like, he's in the middle of a game. What am I supposed to do? You'll get it later, maybe. This is his birthday. I'm like, come over. Be like, you, I don't, we don't ground her. Give us the whole thing. I mean, it really, like for me, that was more like a, she's coming at me like she's an adult.

01:39:11And she's like, mom, stop. But she's been like that since she was little. Exactly. When I met her, I'm like, she's 40. I was like, hello. She's a 40 year old. Literally, until 15 minutes ago, I was worried you were gonna run in the street. Okay, so give me a second to catch up to you. Yeah. But your daughter is very like old soul though. She is. You know what she's doing next year? She's 20. Nobody else cares. I care. She's going to Oxford. See? Smarty pants. She wants the complete opposite life of her mother. She wants nothing to do with restaurants. She wants nothing to do with entrepreneurialism. She wants to sit in old, smelly buildings and read books. Okay, well, that's great. That's amazing. I don't even know what's going on right now. So this is amazing. She's like, I see this. I don't want that. I see this life you're living. Yes, and you can also, I mean, any parent can use that as a tactic, right? I wonder. She tells people she's a chef now. That's what she is. She does. Like, what do you want to be? She's like, I am a chef. Because I was on channel five. You can start referring to me as chef.

01:40:13Yeah, no, I am a chef. That's what she told her preschool teacher. I am a chef. Do you like being called chef? I mean, I like saying. Are you comfortable with it? So because I've worked in classic French kitchens and I was in a very yes chef, I feel like it cringes me a little bit to call somebody who's not an executive chef that has earned that title. But then I also am like, okay, it's not that serious. I have a couple culinary school students that work for us right now and they like to say yes chef. They just like that. They feel, it makes them feel a ways. And I like to say, okay chef, what do you think? They know it's in good, it's in more of a jest, you know? But. It's like light respect. It is, yeah. Respect light. But I wouldn't like formally, I don't know. But also I'm like. You need to call me chef young man. Yeah, I would never. I mean, it's more in the south, it's more like ma'am. You know, like they'll say ma'am to me and I'm like. Or miss. But I'm also like ma'am. I'm like, wait a minute, because you're only 20 and I'm almost 40. I'm like, I guess I am a ma'am now.

01:41:14It feels like, wait, I'm too young to be ma'am. I still feel like I'm like 22, but I'm certainly not. I mean, it's because I'm surrounded with like college kids all the time. I think I am, and I'm using words I shouldn't be using, you know? I'm not. You're like, no cap? Yeah, no. You're like, yeah, no cap. Yeah, no, I shouldn't be saying these words. But my daughter will soon catch, she'll put me in my place eventually. She'll be like, no, you don't say these things. Okay, Sarah, we have gone for longer than a normal episode. This has been more fun than I could even fathom. Thanks for having me. Crystal, it has been so fun having you. What did you think, your first episode sitting in the chair? So I'm already friends with Sarah, like good friends, and it would have been, you were kind of like an accessory on the side, but I feel like you had a good, because we already kind of know so much about each other. I had to do no research, you know? I already know about the Izakaya. Can Crystal ask? Saturday, Sunday, five to 11. We need to serve up somebody really difficult.

01:42:16So she has to ask all the hard questions. I don't know, like Gloria Johnson? Oh my God. That's gonna be that. I'm gonna do a little bit of homework. When I get back from California, yeah. Oh yeah? Awesome. That's gonna be our next interview. Fantastic. It's gonna be Caroline's, like class. If you're this far into the interview, Caroline's moving on to go kind of focus on her private event space, and she's got all kinds of stuff happening. And to get all of us in the same room, to get her, me, and a guest in the same room at the same time is a lot. And so she's kind of, yeah, we're kind of passing the baton and I'm looking for somebody to kind of come in. Look, I can talk all day long, but I love other perspectives, and we had so much fun. I go, do you want to come in and do this? Yeah, I did my interview, and then he offered me a position. Yeah, I was like, you want a job? I'm like, you could come do this. I don't know. She's right there. I'm opening a restaurant later this year too. Maybe I'm too busy, but I'm like, I'd love to taste. So can we announce that? I don't know yet. I haven't seen a proposal or an offer. Now announcing, Crystal is the new host of this podcast.

01:43:20Well, co-host. Brandon's still here. Yeah, I'm still here. Let me try that again. We can still co-host the show together. The newest co-host on Nashville Restaurant Radio is Crystal from Grilled Cheesery. Wow, look at that. There you go, look at the official announcement. Actually, I'll tell you, I'll end with a really funny story. So bumping from our kids to way back. So we were joking around the other day about like when our kids were little and my best friend from college, her name is Sarah. And she was like, you mean when Augusta had her smoker's voice as a toddler? So she literally had a smoker's voice and she was like, listen to my voice, right? And I'll never forget like, you don't realize that you have it, right? It's just like kind of always there. When I lived in Santa Monica, I lived right behind the Third Street Promenade on like Fifth and Wilshire. And Playtone, Tom Hanks' production company was in my building. And so you can imagine the amount of people that would drive up to that building that were of note, right? And so there was an alleyway in the back where I would pull my car out and that was between us and the Third Street Promenade.

01:44:25And so I'm walking to go to a movie down this alley one day and this escalade pulls up and it's Spielberg. And he rolls down the window and he's like, hey, do you know where I can find, you know, Playtone? I'm like, oh yeah, it's right here. You just need to like pull in there and then you do this and you do that. And he was like, are you an actor? And I was like, no. And he's like, do you do voiceover? I was like, no. He's like, you need to do voiceover. Oh my gosh. So I should have listened. Wow. She's like, and that's how I got in Ratatouille. I was like, come on. See, I knew that. I figured you did. This is my greatest opportunity missed. And if I fuck up and bail out on this industry, that will be my next move. Do voiceovers. Please don't do that. We need you here. Yeah, don't do that. I'm going to keep making ramen for as long as y'all let me. Well, I need it because I'm a once a week order. I mean, I've got my like reorder, reorder. I mean, my daughter is obsessed. It's like, that's the thing. If our kids love it, we just like follow suit.

01:45:25We're just like, perfect. There's something that I can have. You know, there's some, I can, I get my same order. She gets the kids ramen. Did somebody knock? Was that a knock on the door? I feel like somebody knocked on the door. That was weird. We do a final thing here. Yeah. It's called the Gordon Food Service Final Thought. Let's do it. It's the final thing. You get to take us out. Whatever you want, whatever you want to say, as long as you want to say it, you get to kind of just, just talk to the people who are listening. Let me think. Take your time. Yeah. Gosh, that's loaded. Crystal, did you have a final thought? What was my final thought? My final thought on my episode was talking about how we just need to support. We need to keep showing up. Like if somebody starts a little food truck park because that's what the community wanted, like actually go to it. Like spend, get your dinner there. You know, like I, we all want the cool stuff, but like we have to actually do, we have to, we have to support it ourselves.

01:46:27Just basically like spend your dollars wisely. That was kind of my whole thing because I didn't want to get political. Yeah, I think, I think, I think I want to, my final thought is be human, be human. We're all human. We're all going through things. This is not an easy year for anyone. Maybe there are some people that are riding high and I'm happy for them. And they too, their star will fall too, like everyone's does. They rise and they fall, they rise and they fall. So just remember that anytime you walk into a business, that that business is driven by humans. Amen. I love that. That's good. Sarah, thank you so much for doing, and thank you because I had to cancel on you. Oh, please. The week before last, because I literally five o'clock in the morning, I'm deciding to fly to California. And I'm like, what do I need to do? And I'm like, I'll text Sarah, I'll get on Instagram. The first person. Sadly, I'm usually awake.

01:47:29First person at five a.m. like, hey, I have to go to California. I can't be there Tuesday. And you're very sweet and very, thank you for rescheduling this. And you too, because you were gonna be there too. And first episode, and then I'll be in California the rest of this week, and then this will come out the next week. And thank you so much for being here. I really enjoyed talking with you. And Crystal, how do you feel? How do you feel? Like, did you have fun? I love talking. I'm just sitting here. You're a natural. Enjoying the company. Are we recording? I don't know. I don't know how this works. We most certainly are. I don't know whatever you're doing over there. I'll teach you. It's very easy. We've been talking for an hour and 24 minutes. That's a long time. Are people still listening? I don't know. Who knows? We'll find out. You could say something. No. Thank you guys for listening out there. Free tacos at Chagos. Show up right now. Right now. You gotta go right now. All right. Well, Sarah, we'll see you again soon. Thank you so much. Okay. Well, thank you so much, Sarah Gavigan, for joining us in studio.

01:48:32Gosh, Crystal, that was a fun conversation. Yeah, by fun, do you mean honest? And, you know, it's not always like roses and, you know, rainbows for all of us. You know, she's really going through a, you know, a pivot right now. And I think we really heard how they are dealing with and how they're trying to overcome a lot of obstacles. And you have to, I mean, we can all learn something from that, you know? Well, this is your first episode. It is. What did you think? I think that I love hearing about how people, the struggles and the triumphs and- There was a lot of realness in that. She's so real. It was very real. Yeah. I mean, I don't wanna hear, I don't wanna hear, you know, an advertisement for your restaurant. I wanna really hear behind the scenes. Well, I was a little nervous because I knew the deal with edible was a thing. Like I've read it. I've read the comments, the whole thing. I couldn't wait to hear her talk about it.

01:49:32So this isn't necessarily like on this show, I'm not trying to bring up a bunch of controversial shit to like make it weird. But in this particular situation, I was like, is this what we're talking about? She was willing to talk about it. And I thought that was my favorite part was that she, realness wise, like she didn't just go, well, there was no PC answer. She literally was like, I felt like a gut punch. Like it hurt. Like it hurt me when I read that. And I, when she said that, when I said, what was the emotion when you first read it? And she said, Michael, Hannah had messaged her. And she, I just thought that was like, it hurt. Like it was like a gut punch. I was like, you don't get a realer response. And if you wanna know like what the actual restaurateur feels about your review, there it was. And who it comes from. I think that's a big deal that it came from Jill. Yeah. And I think, I appreciate those response. I wanna hear people like speak from the chest. You know, that kind of saying of like, I wanna, I really wanna hear what the real thing is.

01:50:36I'm like, I don't wanna hear what the PR version of what this story was. And I think if you've listened to this episode, you can hear her point of view, her side of it. You know, and I think we all can relate to versions of what she said. I really appreciate her honesty. Well, I thought your, just you being here and your relationship with her was undeniable. Yeah, I mean, she definitely felt comfortable because we would talk about this behind closed doors anyways, you know. I think so much of this conversation was able to happen because you were in the room. Oh, thank you. That's really nice of you to say. That's who she is, but I think you brought a lot of that out. There's a comfortability. And I think that, you know, you know her business that much better than I do. I mean, I'm a patron, I'm a supporter. You're there. She knows what I think of her. And you live in East Nashville. Yeah, we're basically neighbors and we've known each other since I've been there. I live at like the Loveless Cafe.

01:51:36I don't get, I had fat belly pretzel yesterday. I mean, it's always a good idea. Oh my God. Talk about good people. I mean, I will give them all my money anytime of day. We're gonna do an episode with them pretty soon. Oh, perfect. Well, that's another good friend of mine. We'll get to talk to LeVon. Okay, LeVon is somebody who I would literally text a random like baking question to. Like just so you know the level of my comfortability with him. There's no like formalities with him. It's literally like, here's a picture of this dough I'm making, what's wrong with it? What did I do wrong? And like, that's the kind of friendship we have. So I'm excited to see what he's gonna say, cause. Well, I get to have lunch with like one of my favorite people in the city, which is Sean Porter. Okay. Big daddy. Yeah. From Daddy's Dogs. AKA. AKA. Also somebody who texts me random questions.

01:52:37And I love the comfortability of this community with each other, you know. Dude is like one of my favorite people in the city. And I got him something for Christmas. And I just, it was a random thing I thought about him. And I've been sitting on my nightstand for like six months now. You know it's May. And so I messaged him, I was like, dude. Oh, I was like, I have this. I pulled it and put it in my car. And I was like, I've got this thing. I've got to give it to you. What did you get him for Christmas? Oh man, what did I get him? So I. Is it appropriate to stay? Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's probably, I don't know if it's, I mean, if he cares. It's a, I got him a belt buckle. Okay. So I love belt buckles. And I like wear it. And I'm not wearing one today, but I wear like belt buckles on a regular basis. He will definitely wear that. So he, I don't know if you all know this. He's in a moped gang. I know that. I do know that. I'm so jealous and I want to join this gang so bad. Okay. Just cause I. So you're trying to get into the moped gang. I don't think it's hard. I think you just have to buy a moped. This is a present that's basically a selfish present.

01:53:37This is something that's gonna benefit you in the future. No. It's a ticket to your admittance. I was looking, I was looking. To his moped gang. I made a custom Nashville restaurant radio belt buckle. So also this is advertisement for the podcast. This is not a gift. This belt buckle I got him is a vintage moped. Oh, okay. On the belt buckle. And I saw this and I went. That's very nice. Dude needs this. Like he needs the big belt buckle with a moped on it. Like it's too fucking cool. I want to see his reaction and then I'll describe it. So I gave it to him. I said, here, let's go grab lunch. And he's like, wait, I'll go. There's like a, there's some really good sandwich places in East Nashville. Yeah. Really good. I would say one of the best places to get a sandwich in Nashville. The best place to get a sandwich. East Nashville is the best per capita, per square foot of East Nashville. You have the most.

01:54:38What's your favorite? I don't do that. I don't play that game. Don't try to catch me saying favorites. It depends on your mood and what day it is, if they're even open. Thank you. Okay. Well, I. What the weather is outside. I can't pass up Eastside Bond Me. Like I am so in love with Gracie's bread. Have you had Gracie's big salad? No. And have you had the garlic bread? Okay, see. No, see I can't. I'm gonna teach you so many things. There's so many things on that menu that I have to eat. I know. There's fried sweet potatoes. Have you had those yet? No. The fried sweet potatoes. Okay. No, because I got the garlic bread. I got the like cream cheese, garlic bread situation. See, so like if you go to go Bill's Sandwich Palace, or are you gonna go. That's literally like a block away from my house. I know. It's actually my backyard. So Bill's Sandwich Palace or Fat Belly or. Again, depends on the day cause they're not always open there. You know, like it depends on the day. So you don't have to play favorites. I'm so jealous. You get to pick those whenever you want cause you live right there.

01:55:39I just skip on down. I don't even have to park. I just walk. Do you know what my new favorite sandwich shop is? Grille Cheesery. Yep. Wait, is it? I was just being, I was being funny. Well, I'm right here. I mean like right, the studio is like. It's actually your backyard. Yeah. To the way you are with Bill's Sandwich Palace is how I am now with you. And now that I know about your new menu. Cause I brought you all the foods. And they've been craving this. So every day I'm like. I'll have store melt. Well, I go to Brown's all the time. Cause it's just. It's across the street. Across the street. Yeah. So you can only. And then Chagos is also across the street. But now like I have a sandwich place. Now I get really good sandwiches. And it's different. We're not the same. I wouldn't, I would say that it depends on your mood. It depends on the time. We also deliver everywhere. Hopscotch milkshake with the banana. Holy shit. And the, so we use Naked Lady Bourbon in our brown butter bananas.

01:56:39Do you really? Yeah. Love it. Love it. I did not know that. I know. I'm such a huge fan of that. That zero spirit brands. I love it. It's so the flavor is there. You know? Well, it's actual bourbon. It's actual bourbon. That they de-alcoholize. Yeah. So it has that. So you can tell it's not like a weird extract. It doesn't have the, the ethanol. The like, it works really well in a mixed drink. You can't shoot it. Like you can't like do a shot of it. Oh no. And we're roasting. We're caramelizing bananas. We're putting it. It's a part of the recipe. We love it. So I loved that interview and we can do this all day. We're going to do roundups. We're going to do all kinds of fun things. And I really enjoyed the conversation with Sarah and I'm looking forward to so many more conversations. And I thank you for being here. Like thank you for doing this. Thank you for helping me. I feel so welcomed. I love it. I can't wait to add anything I can to the podcast and make everyone feel comfortable, apparently. That's my position. Except for you.

01:57:39I'll just make, I'll make fun of you. And then I'll, I'll make them feel comfortable. Right? Perfect. They're good balance. I need it. I need somebody to make fun of me relief. Yeah. Yes. Banter is I think banter, if you will banter, if you will. Well, this is going to be a lot of fun. And this is a, with the intros, we're looking at almost two hours. We're right at with the commercials. We're going to be at two hours. Yeah. So tacos at tacos. That's what I'm going to say to see if anybody's listening. If you've made it this long, come get a free taco at Chagas. Look, dude, I waited to the end of that fucking episode. Give me a. Oh, he did. He deserves. He deserves it. All right. Well, stay tuned because next Friday, we're going to be right here talking with Maribel. Talking about tacos. And Jason Crocroll, talking about tacos, Python tacos and flavor catering, that episode. And then the next week after that, we are going to have Q Taylor from cinema in 8th and roast and his new chef Shelby over at cinema.

01:58:48That episode is going to be after that. And then we're going to do a roundup with Amanda Virgilito coming up here pretty soon too. Lots of fun stuff happening here on the pod. And then I can't wait. I really want to do the food truck month where we just tons of food truck owners. I've already put them on blast. They're all excited. They're going to be lining up. I know it. Hell yeah. I cannot wait to share their stories and just what they're doing. And this is like the, these are the, these are the next big restaurants in town. So let me tell the best stories come from why people start food trucks. It's very interesting. I'm it's, I can't wait to, for you guys to hear. I'm excited for the guests, for the, for the people listening to hear this, but selfishly I am excited to just learn myself. Cause I don't know a lot about food trucks. I'm a brick and mortar guy. It's all I've ever done. I've never, never worked in a food truck. So I think there's so much.

01:59:49Do you want to work in a food truck? Cause I want you on shift this weekend. No, seriously. Friday night. We'll wait till July when it's nice and very moist out. Oh, see that's well, you know, Tom Morales came in here and not in here, but super OG. Yeah. He super OG has Tom cats. I know which he goes to like remote places where they do movies and he's original. When we, he was the only one I could really talk to about like, where do I get a guy? I had his repair guy when he was the only repair guy that would work on my first truck. Do you, you know, when he first bought his truck, he told me this story on the show. He goes, when I bought, when I started Tom cats, I wanted to get on a movie. And so I found, I finally got the fight. I got, I bought this old ass truck and it was a truck. And the movie, I painted on the side of it, number seven. Like this was truck number seven. Oh, how funny. And then I took a picture of it and I sent it to the movie people to let them know this is what my truck looks like.

02:00:54And I put number seven on it cause I wanted them to think I had at least seven trucks. That's pretty smart actually. And they hired me. He goes, I really started doing restaurants because I needed a way to train people to go work on movies. He goes, movie sets, he goes, that's the big, that's the NFL. He goes, working in restaurants. Why does he live in Nashville? Why doesn't he live in Los Angeles? Well, he does all those remote films. It's not all filmed in LA. They have sets, they have all this stuff there. He's going into the fields in Mount Juliet where they have, or filming a movie at the, old Nashville prison where they did like the last castle with James Nelofini. He goes to those places, he goes into remote areas. He does have great stories. Oh my God. Like the best. The best and he's also a character too. Well, we'll bring him in too cause he is a friend of the show and he is, I think he's passing everything down to his children to run. I think he's kind of like, we'll bring him, but we need to have him in again. He's definitely a guy, but he, he's like the OG food truck.

02:01:57No, for real. When people say like, oh, you've been around, I'm like, no, there's been people around for a long time. You just, they're not, they weren't site to site trucks like we were, but anyways. We could do this for hours. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you, Crystal, for being here. Thank you. We'll see you next week.