Sean Lyons

00:00Sharpier's Bakery is a locally owned and family operated wholesale bakery providing bread to Nashville's best eateries. They have operated in Nashville since 1986. Yes, next year will be 40 years. They providing high quality fresh bread daily for restaurants, catering companies, hospitals and universities. The bread is also free from any preservatives and artificial flavors. The right off of White Bridge Road, Erin Mosso and her team have been doing this for a long time. And you know what I love about them is that they're local and they care. They care about your business. That's like the number one thing you're gonna hear me talk about is, do they care about your business? And I 100% believe that they do. If you would like to be working with a bakery that cares about your business, give them a call. 615-356-0872. That's 615-356-0872. Now you can always visit them at sharpiers.com.

01:01That's C-H-A-R-P-I-E-R-S.com. And they have pictures of all of the bread that they can have for you and contact information. Go check them out, Sharpier's Bakery. ["The Tastiest Hour of Talk in Music City"] Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. The tastiest hour of talk in Music City. Now here's your host, Brandon Styll. ["The Tastiest Hour of Talk in Music City"] Hello, Music City. And welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio. My name is Brandon Styll and I am your host. We are powered by Gordon Food Service. We've got a fun one for you today. I know I always say that, but it is a true thing. This episode today is with Sean Lyons. He is the managing partner at UpHospitality, which is Germantown Cafe, Park Cafe, and the all new Carrington Row right in the middle of Brentwood.

02:05And guys, we recorded this like three weeks ago. And I'm telling you, I have got so many episodes already recorded. Just wherever you are, stop this and click subscribe because you're gonna wanna be notified. The next episode's gonna be with Henry Roberts. He is the owner and founder at Two Hands. They've got a location over there on 8th Avenue right across the street from Arnold's. And they have a new location in the factory at Franklin. And he's in Aussie. And that conversation, I just love talking to people with accents like that. It's so fun. Kind of like our episode with Elodie the other day. Next up's gonna be Vince Lanni. Vince Lanni's a general manager at Greenery & Co. And he's the owner of Serve Up Solutions. He is a consultant, but he also is the GM of a restaurant here in town. And we have just, we kind of geek out on some fun conversation. Then we're gonna be talking with Olivia Britton. She is the publisher for In Focus. And she's also the executive director for the Nashville Food and Wine Festival.

03:06And we are gonna be a part of that. We're gonna be at the Nashville Food and Wine Festival recording, I believe, in the VIP tent. So we're excited to tell those stories. And then we're gonna have Jason Cruz. Jason Cruz is the owner of C&B Linen. So I went yesterday down to C&B Linen out to Waynesboro, Tennessee. And their facility is absolutely amazing. Like it is incredible, brand new, state of the art. The machines, I mean, there's air conditioning. It's comfortable. It's a beautiful facility. And you can hear an ad from them later. But really, I've just been looking for a fantastic linen company for a while because ours is kind of, and it's just, a lot of them seem to be. And that's the thing, I'm sorry. It's just, do better linen companies. It's an issue. We had a great time at Tennessee Flavors. Tennessee Flavors was on Tuesday.

04:06And man, that episode will come out soon. We had the gentleman, we had the Savarino brothers, Corrado and Carmelo Savarino. We had Tom Dreffel, who's a city council member, district, I believe it is 16, that's Belmead. Joy Stiles, who's a city council member. She is district 32. And then the chief of police, John Drake, was there. And he sat down and talked to me for a few minutes. And he was, he's gonna go to Nashville State as a culinary student. I didn't know this, but I'd never met the chief of police before. And the dude could not have been nicer. I cannot wait to share that conversation with you. We also talked to Trevor McVeigh. Trevor McVeigh is the founder and the owner of Heroes Vodka. You may have had somebody at Lippman Brothers come try and sell it to you. But we got to hear his story. The actual guy that started the vodka, Trevor McVeigh. We talked with two of, Lou the Sioux, Lou over at Margot, she stopped by with Christopher, Chef Christopher.

05:10She affectionately called him Cheftifer. And they talked about what they were doing and why Tennessee flavors meant to them. We also spoke with Craig Clift. And Craig is kind of the owner of Midtown Cafe and Ellington Place Soda Shop. He had been with Randy Rayburn for almost 40 years, I believe. They've been working together. And so this is the Randy Rayburn School for Culinary Arts at Nashville State. And we just kind of, that was the, we did like a 15 to 20 minute conversation and we reminisced about old days of Sunset Grill and Cabana and Randy and F. Scott's. I mean, we went back and it's, if you're an old school Nashville restaurant person, you're going to want to hear Craig talk about these things because Craig's never been on the show. He hasn't had a full time show. He's having open heart surgery this week and we wish him the best. Prayers for you, Craig. We love you. And we had Lisa LeClaire. Lisa LeClaire is the president of the Greater Nashville Hospitality Association. She came on the show and she was an absolute delight.

06:10And we already have an episode in the books or that we've scheduled out where Lisa is going to be coming on and talking with us. So this is another episode that's going to come out. All those people will be on that episode. And then this, tomorrow, Sunday, I am going to Atlanta and I will be at Team Heidi. And there's going to be a million people there and it's going to be insane. Hopefully I will see you there. It is at Truist Park. It starts at five o'clock and I'm going to be recording live. So if there's a, check my Instagram, check the Nashville Restaurant Radio Instagram because I'm putting a questionnaire up there today that asks, what questions should I ask? Because I'm going to talk to like 15 to 20 different people. And you just saw, you never know who's going to show up. The police chief, the council person, the longtime veteran restaurateur, the president of the Hospitality Association. You never know who's going to stop by the table, sit down and talk. So it's a lot of conversations. And if you have specific questions that you would like me to ask, I've put a poll on my Instagram right now and you can go to the stories and you can write down the question you want me to ask.

07:19And I will work in almost, I tell you what, I'll work in every question as long as they're somewhat reasonable and we'll have a lot of fun with it. So please go online and let, let's do that. Woo, that is, that is a lot. We've got a lot going on here on Nashville Restaurant Radio. Seven episodes and the book's coming at you. So like I said, like, subscribe, go to our Instagram page, follow the Instagram page. Wherever you're listening to this, click the subscribe button because you'll want to know. Cause we got a bunch of, we're going to have a fury of episodes coming out. This Vince Lanni episode is amazing. The Henry Roberts episode is amazing. This episode you're about to listen to right now with Sean Lyons is absolutely fantastic. Let's jump into it. And this is, this is what we do. And let's take it away. Sean Lyons. Super excited today to welcome in Sean Lyons, my good friend, Sean Lyons. Welcome to Nashville Restaurant Radio, Sean.

08:20Thank you. So Sean, you are the managing partner over at the Germantown Cafe, the Park Cafe and Carrington Row. The all, the all new Carrington Row I've been talking about on the show. Yeah, brand new. You've been talking about it? Yeah. Oh, wow. Okay. Geez. Sorry. I missed the last couple. Well, you guys were the very first members of NARA. And you know, one of my big things is I don't take money from restaurants for advertising, nothing like that. It's, this is a want to support you kind of a thing. But since you're a member of NARA and that is what we're doing now, then I want to promote members of NARA. I want to get on here and talk about members of NARA and you guys are a brand new restaurant right in the middle of Brentwood. My new neighbor over at Meribowl and you guys are doing great. Yeah, no, it's going great. And yeah, we're super actually happy to be part of NARA. That's always nice because there's so many things as an owner, an operator, whatever, a dishwasher, like we were saying before, that like there's just so much to focus on and it's just so hard in restaurants nowadays to be good at everything.

09:28And so if you just get like a partner that like knows deep into certain things, it just pays off in dividends. I mean, that's the one benefit or one thing that honestly we kind of have to do in my opinion, even if it like reduces cashflow in the short term is getting experts in certain areas. And so we now have like a fractional CFO and we're bringing in a fractional COO and I consider you part of that, like kind of like. Fractional DO. Yeah, right. Well, that's kind of the point. You know, the kind of the point is what I do people are getting tired of me talking about this, but it's a luxury position in a local restaurant to have a director of operations, somebody who kind of manages the general managers, looks over the P&L and negotiates with all of the vendors and builds those relationships. So if I can do that for a bunch of other restaurants and help manage some of those relationships and negotiate some of those deals, it just takes time off of your hands. And now there's an accountability piece. If something happens, you can message me and go, hey, will you look into this? And I go, no problem. That's the biggest piece, honestly.

10:29Yeah, I mean, but now you. I don't need to put up with the issues that come up from it. Now I'm slammed in a bunch of different ways and I'm, thank you guys for being like my guinea pigs as far as this thing goes, because I've learned a lot just from opening Carrington Row and negotiating a vendor deal and Uber Eats and all, you know, the linen company, CMB Linens, hopefully they're doing well for you. They've been great. Yeah, we've been super. Yeah, they've been really great so far and just experiencing the different model. It's nice to be able to compare that model compared to, you know, some local ones, which the local ones we love, right? But there is just, they're doing things a new way. Obviously we chose it because we thought it was more straightforward as you presented and they've been able to follow through. I think that's the big key though, is like they're willing to do anything to make sure that like they're successful or they get their, they have a positive first impression and so far they're doing it. You know, our rep has been great so far.

11:29That's amazing. The word is starting to get out, you know? It's weird because I met with somebody yesterday and they said, hey, do you know of a good linen company? And I go, you know, as a matter of fact, I do. And I think that's the thing people are just tired of all of the ancillary hidden creative fees that linen companies are coming up with and CMB doesn't have any of those. Well, I mean, they have them, right? They just build them in. So it's just more transparent and easier to track. Yeah, well, I mean, but there's a lot of linen invoices. You'll see your linen price, which might be eight cents a linen or 10 or 11 cents a linen. And then there's an ARC, a replacement cost, which is 2% of the total inventory of the linen. And that's on a separate line and they charge you. So if you're getting 2000 linens, they're gonna charge you 40 times $2 per linen. But then that line isn't fully extended out. It's just kind of built into that number. And you're like, how the hell do I read this invoice? I don't understand why it costs as much and they don't do any of that.

12:31It should just be straightforward. Yeah. And that's the thing. Yeah, it's kind of like a lot of restaurants. I mean, honestly, and some of ours, the same included is like they have egg surcharges now and then there's service charges, which we have done and there's all the things, right? Universal charges, a clean green services fee. Like, what? Which I, again, coming from our perspective, I actually do understand because they say that in the airline industry, those tack on charges, everybody gets mad, but at the end of the day, they work. At the end of the day, they make money from them. At the end of the day, they're able to be profitable from them, right? And so there's a psychology that you have to balance with people actually being upset and what actually drives behavior. So it's a big balancing act, which is what I'm learning, yeah, as we move forward. Well, so that's interesting because there's, so there's something I wanna ask you about about Carrington Row, because we're talking about tack on fees and we're talking about credit card fees, right?

13:35And one of the things you'll see when you go, like even during COVID there, people would tack on the bottom of the bill. There's your sales tax, there's a liquor tax and then there's potentially a credit card fee. Now, if you use a credit card of like 2% and then there was a COVID fee, which is just a, hey, shit costs more and we're doing more and we have to print menus every day. And I wanna clarify, we didn't do all that. No, no, I'm just saying, but you guys have a percentage that goes to the kitchen. Yeah, kitchen love. I mean, that's the only thing that we do. It's called kitchen love. Yeah, it's the only thing that's on there, but I did notice a fee on there that said kitchen love. What's the percentage on that? In 2%. So on average, it's like anywhere between 50 and 60 cents on a bill. What we were trying to do during COVID is a lot of people were experimenting with it. A lot of people were doing tip the kitchen, which again, with all the laws and stuff, the one thing that we are like adamant on is like legality because every big restaurant group in this city, I feel like has been sued at one point or another. And I truly, truly, truly believe it's not due to mal-intent.

14:36Like it's either due to a lack of information, a lack of resources, the lack of ability to like maintain consistency when you scale or understanding when you scale. And so we try to keep it as like clear as possible. But really it's like the hardest thing in restaurants is in my opinion, the kitchen, right? If the kitchen fails, you go down, right? If you don't have a solid team that has been with you for a long time to get that new person, especially if they're not like a referral of a current person, it can just derail everything. And so like- Very quickly. Yeah, and so like it really is the heart of the restaurant because if that heart fails, everything fails, right? So, and there's all these, we all know there's an inequity between the front house and back house. You know, if they pass this tax, you know, not taxing tipped employees, that's fantastic for our front of house team. It will likely create more bitterness for the back house team, right? Because they are, that wage disparity goes up even more potentially.

15:42And so by 2%, it's really a happy, in my opinion, a happy medium. We describe it as like a tithe, right? It's like the first percentage of every single dollar goes to the team members that are honestly at the least advantaged group in the restaurant and that are honestly the highest skilled. So does that, is it, you pay them a salary, like the kitchen- Yeah, normal. Yeah, normal, high, I would say above average. Taking care of them. Yeah. And then this is like a tip on top of that. 100- So if they're really busy, they get a bonus. 100% of it goes back to the kitchen team. So we have tiers within the kitchen, we have cooks and we have lead cooks. And then we haven't created a third tier, but I might create a third tier, just because they're honestly like, they're making a good amount and I wanna allow them to earn something. Sure. Because earning something, there's pride in that, there's normal capitalism, like you do better, you make more. 100%. And they get retained longer. Like there's less likelihood that somebody's gonna leave when they've earned something or a certain level, they don't wanna start over someplace else. And so it's gone really well.

16:43A lot of our cooks have been able to do, have been able to make, a dishwasher can make $22, $23 an hour sometimes and our lead cooks can make $25, $26, which in reality is like barely living wage at this point. Yeah. Like we say 25, 26, and then there's a restaurant person that might say that's a lot. Broadway here, they pay 28, 29, which is amazing because of the liquor volume they do. Well, that's 50 grand a year. Right, yeah. 25K is about what, 50 grand a year? Yeah, which I don't know how anybody lives on, nobody, you can't live on that. That's why there's two jobs. Yeah. That's why restaurant workers all, most of my kitchen gets to work in the morning and then they go to their other job at night or they go to our other restaurant. I mean, we have people, it's a lot. And I mean, your kitchen labor is one of the highest things than in the restaurant that you gotta manage and it's a lot. Well, and the other piece is, we're doing a couple things there. So like, yes, there's the kitchen love that goes straight to them, but that's also the difference between like adjusting for inflation for us, right?

17:46So with the restaurant, we're not gonna increase something by 29 cents when a percentage goes up, right? But like a lot of that inflation money goes towards increasing wages that people need. So the first dollar anyways, is going to pay the team to retain them. So instead of us increasing the menu prices by a dollar, $2 every week, every month, whatever that is, we can just do the kitchen love charge, which is again, on average 50 cents, which is way less than a dollar or $2, which just for the pleasantness of the eye that every restaurant will add. But on top of that, we do have to be creative. One of our values for the restaurant is we're creative and forward thinking. And you and I have, I think talked about this, that like the restaurant model nowadays is just not sustainable. It's just like the full service model isn't good enough. And these are the small little changes that might adjust, but one thing that we've done in the beginning of opening and maybe we might just keep it there, some people may think it's a mistake, it's not a mistake, but we charge everything on the menu of like 16.50, 22.50 printed, but we never actually charged the 50 cents on the POS.

18:49So most people don't realize it, but- Why do you do that? Why would you charge the 50 cents on the POS? Well, because I want them to know, it's almost like one of our values is to over deliver on value, which is product service overall experience. And so hopefully it's a version of over delivering. But also there's always been a couple of people, there's always been people that say the service charge, which I completely empathize with. I feel it on the airlines and all that stuff. But at the same time, by us doing that as well, it's like, that's actually usually more of a discount than what the kitchen level would have been, unless you get some giant bottle of wine, right? That like would increase that percentage. That's interesting. So it almost breaks even, but it kind of, it fits two of our values, right? Valuing our people and then over delivering value and it all kind of washes out. Well, that's why we do, you know, at Maribor, we do half price bottles of wine all the time. Oh, wow. Half price, all of our wine is half priced by the bottle. I need to come over for all my data. No, seriously. And it's one of those things that people are like, oh, this is a gimmick. And you go, no, actually our wine prices are really cheap. And they go, well, why do you do that?

19:49And I go, because one of our values is we love our community and I want you to be able to come back again and again and again. And wine, what is it? Like we order it, it comes into the kitchen and then we put it in the shelf. I don't have to prep it. It doesn't go bad. I don't, like there's no other cost in there, but people are charging 300% over. And it's like, we feel like if you come in and have dinner, you can get an affordable wine and enjoy dinner with affordable wine. Then you can go, oh, that was really nice. I'll come back again. We value coming back multiple times and come in and drink wine cheaper because it's not that hard. Like I just open it at the table. It's not like I gotta, there's no hidden cost built into it. Wine creates community for sure. And that's one of those things we wanted to do and people are like, oh, well, that's cool. And you're like, yeah, we just, all this stuff's really inexpensive. $30 bottles, $15 bottles of champagne. You're like, $15 bottle. Well, I mean, it's Wyclef, but I mean, we may pay $5 a bottle for it, but we'd sell it for 15.

20:55And it's like, I still make something, but if you want to come in for Sunday brunch, it's like bottomless mimosas. Yeah, have a good time. Drink those. It's a thing. All right, we could do this all day. I love doing this. I wanted to tell you one thing. You mentioned no tax on tips. I read an article the other day and it was really interesting. We don't have to discuss this too much. I don't know the validity of it. I don't know if it's true, but somebody said, this is the government's way of keeping tipped workers in poverty. I'm gonna explain. Because if you don't pay taxes on your tips, then it's not taxable income. So you can't like apply for a loan. If you want to buy a house and 90% of your money is tips and it's not taxable income, then what do you make the 213 an hour? Like I made $8,000 last year. Yeah, I don't buy it. Maybe made 110, but if you don't pay taxes, it's not income. So every tipped employee is not gonna be able to get loans.

21:58They're not gonna be able to buy houses. They're not gonna be able to do anything because there's no taxable income on you. Yeah, I don't buy into like the mass agenda stuff as much as some other people, but like that's a very good point because when we put all tips on paychecks, which I've actually never done it another way, like I know lots of normal thing, but like that is one of the biggest sells. And as people get a little bit older, right, past 24, a lot of them say, they actually say, oh, this is great. I don't need to track it. I don't need to put in the effort. Now it just comes out of my W-2 and it shows my income. I can show a landlord, I can show whatever. And it really is, being a grownup, it just makes it easier, it makes life easier. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of stinks because it almost doesn't give them a choice to like do that. I mean, that would almost force- Do you pay taxes? It counts as taxable income, then you can show an income, but if you don't pay taxes on it and there's no income, then it's like- You almost, it almost like encourages what all of, I feel like 80% of restaurateurs would actually prefer not to do tipping and to pay people just like a salary plus commission, like a normal sales job, but we don't do it because just the human nature of people in restaurants and the history of tipping and the people that tend to be in restaurants, me included, kind of have that like instant gratification and that like self-control or self-control your own destiny type of feeling.

23:18If you're good, you can do more, but like I would almost- It's gambling. Yeah, but it would push us like owners, whatever top leaders, executives to actually go towards that model of less tipping and you're actually taking care of your employees more. That's why we do a tip pool. That's why we do the tip pool. We've talked about this previously, but I, yeah, I mean, I feel like tipping is like, it's like an endorphin rush. You go, you do the table and when you walk up to that check slip, you walk up to that check slip and you put it in your apron and you walk to the POS and you open it. You're like, there's an instant dopamine hit to go, hell yeah, look at it. It's like scratching off a lottery ticket. You know you're gonna win something, but how much? It's, I think that it's a form of like gambling and I think that people get addicted to it. Like that, what is this person gonna leave me? Did I earn this?

24:19Did I earn that? And then we take so much of who we are based around that, which is why somebody leaves you a 35% tip and they're like, fuck yeah, got it. And somebody leaves you a 10% tip and all of a sudden, So I'm upset. It ruins your day. And even if you got like 10 good ones and like two bad ones. That one bad one, but people take that on as their personality. Like, man, what did I do? How does that person not like me? And it's like, has nothing to do with you. How many times do you go out and you actually judge your tip on service nowadays? Maybe it's just cause I'm in the industry, but like, there's might be like, there might be one or 2%, like I might give 25 versus 23. A lot of times I give 35. That's like, but like, I'm like 25 is like where you need to be. And it's easy math. Yeah, it's true. You know what I mean? Like it's easy and I tip after tax. I don't tip before tax. I just look at the bottom line total. If it's a hundred dollars, you're getting 125, but I round up to the dollar. So I don't leave like 125.79. I would leave 25.21 and make it 126.

25:22But in our industry is a filter for people that generally have that personality type, right? And again, I have never had an issue with substance abuse, but I definitely have an addictive personality in other ways. Like every job I've ever had, when I was in finance, I think one of the biggest things that I didn't like about it the most was I was like, what is this going towards? Like I never saw the end product, right? Like, you know, if there, maybe if like I was a trader or something, that would have been more satisfying. But when I switched out and I, you know, my only other thing that I did outside of restaurants was I, you know, danced professionally. And a lot of that is you teach somebody something, they see it, you see a smile, and they tell you immediately, right? So it's like this instant like feedback of like, you're good. Trust me, you're a good person. You're doing a good job, you know? That's why I like bussing tables. Dirty, not dirty, right? As quick as I can, yeah. How many things do we work on that we've worked on that have taken four or five weeks to complete? We're doing a vendor negotiation. We're doing this. Force quick for like, generally.

26:22But like everything we do takes six weeks, essentially. I mean, it all takes time to get a bunch of moving pieces together. And it's like, by the time you start it, by the time you finish it, it just takes a long time. Busting a table, dude, I can knock that shit out in like 30 seconds. And I go from dirty to clean. I go, I did that. It's that, that's my dopamine hit. Like helping in the middle of a shift is like the fun part for me. Yeah, which you wonder if it's like, is that healthy? Because like, you know, delayed satisfaction. It's like, is that what the masochism that we always joke about? That like, we're in this industry for something. Do we need to step away from that? You know, but I don't know. Well, I think that's all, it all adds into the mental health issues and all of the things that are about this industry. This is really good. This is a good conversation. Hopefully people listen to this going, hell yeah. That feeling. This is it. I think a lot of people understand this. A lot of people every day go into work and they like that, or you like to gamble, but you don't realize that wedding tables is essentially gambling every day, which is why I went to a tip book.

27:23Cause I didn't want you to have to gamble every day with your money. Somebody left you a 10% tip. You go, all right, we'll throw it in the middle with everything else and it won't affect me. And I don't want that mental health, you know, kind of thing to go, I'm a bad person. I did bad, or I'm not gonna be able to make my rent today. Like, no, everybody's gonna make money today. Some days you come out on top, some days it's, but my goal is that every day you come in and it's just like a job. Servers average, you know, $27 an hour, $30 an hour. That's an average. So if you come to work, whether your tips reflected or not, you know, I'm making 30 bucks an hour today. And you're like, hey, that's like a real, that's like a $60,000 a year job. Come in and just do the thing. And then you don't have to wonder, oh, it was slow, I didn't make money. Like, oh, I made money, everybody made money. It was good. Which is good for mental health. And that's a big deal to me. Yeah. Calexo is an art and design collective of BIPOC, LGBTQ, women and allies focused on creating delightful drinking opportunities for all.

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31:40So, since we've last talked on the show, which I think, have you been? No, it's probably been close to a year, like time flies. It's probably been close to. Yeah, wow. You got, so you came on at Germantown Cafe as kind of a managing partner. You came in, that's right, you were on the show with Jen back in the day, and Jen was like, I don't wanna. Yeah, that's right, that was a couple years ago. That was a couple years ago. Since that time, you guys have bought the Park Cafe. Tell me about that. Tell me about what that was like. Willie, I guess, wanted to retire or didn't. Tell me the story of purchasing the Park Cafe and what has that experience been like? We actually agreed to the Carrington before we did Park Cafe. Really? Yeah. We were looking for the second spot from Brentwood, we had a lot of guests from Brentwood that said, when are you gonna do someplace out here? They worked downtown, they just traveled downtown. And so we found the spot for Carrington. It would need a complete gut.

32:41We knew it was gonna be a longer project. What was there before it? Brooks Cafe, another restaurant that had been around for 20 years, two different owners. And so we kind of signed just an agreement. We didn't sign the lease yet. No, LOI. Yeah. And then we heard, I think a year before, we were just starting to think, it was 2023 when it was like the golden 20s, the 1920s rush of the restaurants. And so everybody was doing well. We were doing especially well. And we were like, okay, we have really great people. We're ready to expand. We ideally like to actually acquire something else because our restaurant group's strategy is to prioritize the people, right? Going back to the kitchen love. Honestly, because yes, we love the people, but also strategically from a business standpoint, it makes sense to us. It's actually pretty easy to find money once you have the right thing to put the money into. And so we ideally would acquire a team and maybe ideally some recipes and stuff to build out our concept. And so we had already thought what restaurant groups in Nashville are getting up there in age, have a really great reputation.

33:47We had already kind of had a very short list of places. And I think Jeff, Willie probably won't even remember this, but I think a year before we had even talked to them, Jeff had seen him in Rush on Depot and said, hey, Willie, you getting ready to retire yet? Like some little hints like that and Willie just kind of brushed it off, you know? And our broker, which we love, he had heard, you know, a year later, even right after we signed this LOI, he's like, I know you guys just signed the LOI, but he's like, we heard, or like we know that Willie is talking to a couple other groups that I'm aware of. I know you had mentioned that to me a while back. Do you want to have a conversation? Yeah, like let's have a conversation. And so we met and every single thing that we said just all aligned, like everything they wanted, we wanted, we wanted to retain the entire team. We didn't really want to change the menu because we thought their dinner menu was awesome. Of course, we're gonna tweak things. And then like everything that they, they offered up all the opportunities, like you could build out the back. We just don't have the energy to do this, this and that. You know, there's, we purposely don't have structure after COVID, like, because we knew we were gonna retire.

34:49We didn't want to put something in that somebody else is gonna redo. And so I think our strengths and what their opportunities were matched perfectly. And so we thought it was a perfect match. They offered a very, you know, reasonable price. They're still the landlords. And so they have a vested interest in the success of the group, both emotionally and from a financial perspective. So they still own the building? Yeah. Okay, I didn't know that. So like, it was really just like everything matched up. There, we only like talked about a couple small details that were like very short, like discussions. But that deal went from just talking to taking it over in three months. Like we closed, we closed the deal on Christmas day, closed the 26th and reopened on the 27th. Wow. So the staff didn't even feel it. I mean, like the, and we retained the same staff. Yeah, we shadowed Willie and Yvette the month before. So like me, Jeff and our kind of our GM that was gonna step in. And so we met a lot of the locals and the regulars that had been going there for 24 years, which honestly was the most important thing.

35:55Learned how they did the things. Honestly, just gained rapport to show the team that like, we aren't just gonna show you, we are active owners, operators. We're here to help, we're here to make your job easier. And so one of the biggest best things about that group is like, Willie and Yvette had, you know, high standards. You know, they're super picky, which is amazing, which is why they've been around for so long. So the team already had high standards. And so the things that we were bringing in, which is like our system of serving or even just like toast, you know, technology just helps them get their job done. Get them to the standard they already know easier. And so most of them were pretty excited about the prospect. And it's been going well. It's been going well. I would say, you know, it's in terms of like revenue, it's the lowest of all three. But that's only because like our bet was, the thing about restaurants now, right? It's impossible, I would say it's very, very hard for any restaurant nowadays to have one meal period if you're not the landlord, right? So if you're not the landlord and can pay like, you know, a low mortgage from however many years ago, and if you have any other debt, right?

36:57Like we had to buy a walk-in, right? And we paid off the business, right? There's some, a little debt there. We knew that we would, you know, break even just with the current operation. Sure. And, you know, managers and stuff, you know, if you're paying yourself as an owner, you can pay yourself a little lower sometimes, but if you're bringing somebody in, that's just not, people just aren't willing to work for a certain rate nowadays, you know, which is, I understand, and I agree, I want people, I want to pay people, but I think this is required to live in the city and what they're worth. And so we're building lunch and brunch. And so once we build lunch and brunch, that has the potential to be the strongest of all three. Wow. So as the potential to, it's just gonna take a little bit longer. They hadn't been doing lunch or brunch for all 24 years, right? And so it's just getting the word out and it's slowly growing. It didn't grow as like rapidly as we thought, cause we did, we came off of 2023, we thought it would go as quick as 2023 did. I think we all know 2024 was a different year. Oh my God. And it's increased every time, but it, you know, is a way different rate.

38:00The positive side of that though, is it really, you know, forced us to get as tight as we could with the financials, you know, when now we have declining budgets and we have like down to the penny, daily tracking, week to date tracking, which I always knew we had to do, but we had the luxury of not needing to, you know? And so that's like our number one focus right now there, and then all the other places. So our CFO jokes is like, when all you have to focus about is sales, you are living in like heaven, right? When, hell yeah. And when like labor is going well, culture is well, costs are tight and operating, you know, very clearly, and all you have to focus on is sales. So I think that's what we're, that's our goal right now. So I think it's a really big, like actual blessing in disguise, you know, because there is no question, industry-wide, restaurant-wide, that we need to be as tight as possible just to like thrive. But when it starts opening back up, consumer confidence or whatever happens, or people just get more aware, we're gonna be like stronger than we ever were, so yeah.

39:01Well, I love that you guys kept the name, and I love the fact that this, and I've eaten at the Park Cafe many times throughout the last 25 years. And for that Sylvan Park spot, I mean, it's a staple for that neighborhood. I mean, people in that neighborhood just know it and love it. And the fact that you guys came in and bought it and gave it the love that it needed. I mean, you know, when you're getting towards, you know, Willie and Yvette, if you're getting towards time to retire and you're failing it, I mean, it's hard, it's a grind. They were keeping it consistent because they were working 16, 17 hours a day. Like that's why it was consistent. Like one of the first things we brought in was just systems, because you know, you can't ask people nowadays to do that on a six day, you can't work 16 hours, 16, you know, six days a week. You know, it's just not, it's not a thing, you know, if you're not the one doing it, you know? So even if you are the one doing it, good luck to a marriage, good luck to kids. That is the thing, people don't realize it. That's kind of what it takes to do that. You know, people come in, they wanna see the owner, they wanna see the people, and it's like, you just gotta be there all the time.

40:06And so you have Germantown Cafe, and now you have Park Cafe. What does your time allocation look like between those two? Back then? Back then it was, back then it was 80, 20. So you're 80% at Park Cafe, 20% Germantown Cafe. Now you have a lot of regulars at Germantown Cafe. Are they asking you, where you been, man? I haven't seen you in a while. They were, but we always knew that we wanted to expand past Germantown. So like, I was pretty like adamant about like, that the GMs and the managers created relationships. And those people naturally were that personality, right? And so- So you didn't, you weren't that personality. You had people who were that personality. I definitely was, I enjoy it. That's my personality as well, is to know people. That's why I love the industry. But I made sure that people knew, and I sometimes would purposely step out and like, go, not elsewhere, but introduce, put somebody in their place. Hey, do you know, this is the GM. This is the AGM. Did you know that they earned a tattoo? Whatever the thing is, I tried to create the connection from the start.

41:09But yeah, no, I mean, I think that's, I'm romantic. I've always wanted to do restaurants ever, like since I was 11 years old. So back before social media, before all that stuff. And so I'm pretty romantic about like, what restaurants should and could and have the potential to do. And so my favorite restaurant was Germantown Cafe. It still is, right? But it's different when you are in it every day, right? We always loved Park Cafe as well. And then my wife and I, our favorite restaurant in town is Margo's, right? It's also been around for 24 years. The best. And I always think like, we go there every single week. It's the first place I've ever been like a regular at. Just cause I go to Margo every week. Every single week, every single week. Oh, I mean, we'll miss a couple because of random things that come up, but like it's pretty consistent every Sunday. And so like, if Margo's were to leave and who knows they might someday, they're getting up in age as well. It's like, I would be pretty upset. There's a lot of memories or like just, that's the time where as a restaurateur, I know what to expect. So I'm not looking and analyzing everything.

42:10I know exactly what to expect, who's going to be there. And so I can actually focus on my wife. And so like to onboard another restaurant into that routine would be like some collateral damage with my wife. It's going to take like three months of her being like, are you going to like look at me? Are you going to talk to me? It's like, no, but that silverware is out of place. We're like, wow, that's a cool way they're doing the duck work. Like, you know, I'm good. I never have thought about that. I've never thought about that. I go to new restaurants all the time. Well, not, I don't, that's a lie. When we go to new restaurants, that's my brain. I look around at the service. I look around at the design. I look at everything, menu, all the stuff. And when you go somewhere regularly, I don't, I can focus on her. It's funny that I've never put that together. Yeah, my number, and I've joked with you because you're always giving me these amazing opportunities. Like you just were telling me about the one down in giving kitchen. I feel I gave a short answer, but I'm like determined. Like I'm friends with Eric from Restaurant Staple that you guys have talked about before. And I always give him trouble, but he's starting to look into it more. I think he's dating somebody. But I was like, hey, like, you know, when restaurant tourists come on the show and they say, you know, I got divorced and onto the next, right?

43:16Like it's like, oh, I had a really tough, I've been through two marriages and then onto the next. Or I never saw my kids and then like, they just move on. Like, don't just move on. Like dig into that. That's not success, right? Like I love my wife. Like there's a reason why like I chose to be with, the best investment in this world is the person you choose to marry, right? So like at this stage, we have three young restaurants. I have a three year old and a five year old, which is all consuming. And so like everything I say yes to, I have to say no to other things, which in reality, it's just restaurants, family, restaurants, family. So it's like, our routine is so tight. We have such little margin in this stage of life. Like my wife and I always talk, okay, when we get out of this stage we do EOS for our personal life as well. Do you really? Yeah, we do. And it works amazing. So we do EOS for our personal life. So we plot out, like in three years, we're gonna open up and we're gonna have a fun. You have a VTO for your family? Yeah. Hell yeah. And so like we did even down to like one of the issues was, you know, we would, things would build up and we get in stupid fights over nothing, right?

44:22And when you finally got a chance to step away, you're like, oh, that was nothing, right? We need to IDS this. Yeah, we did. We literally, it's this IDS time and we write them down, we bring it up and it's about very personal things. And it like, literally because you have a space, it's just like counseling to some extent, but like during the week, I have a time to talk about it. And so you eat it, you write it down, and then you talk about it. And it usually three, four, five days have passed by then. So it's nullified, it's not as emotional. Do you guys say like, let's drop it down? We don't, we don't do that. Oh, but we do. All right, look, let's just drop this down. We'll talk. That's it. In EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system based on the book Traction by Gina Wickman, there's a whole meeting cadence. And part of it is you set goals. There's a vision traction organizer, that's the VTO. You set out your 90 day, one year, three, 10 year goals. And then as you do the meeting cadence, if an issue pops up, you do not discuss the issue at the time, you drop it down. And when you drop it down, it goes to the bottom and you get to the end of the meeting, you have the most amount of time allotted to IDS, which is identify, discuss, and solve all of your issues.

45:30And then you go, all right, issue number one, let's IDS it. That's a verb. And so you identify, you discuss, then you solve the issue. So that's what I was referencing. If you're from speaking Greek to you, I'm just going back and saying, in an argument with your wife, well, I don't know why Jimmy didn't get picked up. Let's IDS it. Let's drop it down. We'll put it in. I actually do want to do that though, cause we do it, but we don't, but I like the verbiage, cause the verbiage helps. Let's drop it down. Let's drop it down. Like one thing right now, it's hard. It's like, you know, with kids, we know they're expensive with the business. Like we are not like raking it in yet. It's like, there's a lot of debt out, you know, we hire new, really high people. It's like, we've been stagnant for a long time. Prices are growing up. And so we made an agreement for three years that we aren't going to go on a vacation, right? And so like for us, you know, going on a one week vacation, the cost of that, you know, and with babysitters, if you don't bring your kids, if you do bring your kids, the cost of that, we extrapolated it out. What if we added in another half date night every single week? And so like, we do one in that, we try our best to do one and a half date nights every single week, but that means no vacation.

46:35What's a half date night look like? You get a babysitter, so you pay for the babysitter and we go pick up, you know, a cider or something from the gas station. We go to our clubhouse in our neighborhood. And in the past, my wife hurt her knee recently, but we would like, we do dance, I do dance, right? So we would practice a dance routine, so we'd do something together. We'd do EOS, we'd do our talk through our goals. We'd order, we ordered and I started making actually, but we'd like order food like on Uber to the clubhouse. But recently we did a Buffalo Wild Wings, like why am I making Buffalo Wild Wings? It's like overcooked, they don't have any sauce on them. And so I started like, just ordered the sauce and like made it at home. So like, we basically like pay half of the expense of a normal date night and just go really close by. But by doing that, it's like you're kind of allowing us to talk regularly, get there. I think that is so cool, man, how you're focusing, you're balancing your time, family.

47:37And the reference I said, Team Heidi is coming up on March 16th in Atlanta. I said, are you gonna go? I'd love to have you come. And you're like, nope, can't do it, that's a day. And it's a huge restaurant event, but you're like, no, I have, and it wasn't a discussion. It wasn't anything, it was just like, no, I can't, that's a family time or whatever. I think that that's really smart and good advice for anybody to focus on the things that matter. Restaurant, family. In three years, I hope, I want to, don't get me wrong. I really want to, because I'm an extrovert. I love everything in the restaurants. I love the good cause in the restaurants. And if I don't have the base of it, then nothing's gonna, I'm not gonna be happy. Well, we're at like 35 minutes of talking, and we have another interview in like 10 minutes. So we're gonna hit pause. We're gonna hear a word from our sponsors. Black Sheep Tequila. Share six exclusive styles with the oldest released tequila with a line of six artisanal, handcrafted luxury tequilas.

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50:51I know it's too good to be true. No contracts. They do formats. They'll make custom formats for you. They do fresh linens, cleaning supplies. And guys, I just did a tour of their facility and it is immaculate. It is state of the art. I'm gonna post pictures on my Instagram. You can go find them and you can see how absolutely gorgeous this is to the point that they even wash and sanitize every one of their used laundry carts. It's just absolutely amazing. If you're looking for a linen company you can trust who wants to earn your business every single week, go back and listen to our episode with Jason Cruz, the owner of CMB Linen. Hear it from his straight from his mouth, exactly what they do. Or you give them a call at 931-722-7616. Or you can DM me at Brandon Styll on Instagram for my exclusive pricing through the Nashville Area Restaurant Alliance, NARA for short. Y'all today we are talking as always about SuperSource.

51:52And you know one cool thing about SuperSource is did you know that they develop most of their cleaning products and chemicals in their in-house facility? They're environmentally conscious and only use dyes that are safe for the employees and the environment. They carry a number of products for keeping your dishes, flatware, services, floors, restrooms, laundry, basically your entire facility clean, bright, and smelling and feeling new. This is just one of the many reasons SuperSource is taking over this city for dish machine and chemicals. You need to call Jason Ellis, his number is 770-337-1143. And he would love it if you would give him a call and let him come down and just check out your operation, meet him, say hi, see if there's any way he can help, he is here to help you succeed. That's Jason Ellis with SuperSource, 770-337-1143. All right, welcome back. We are here with Sean Lyons, managing partner at Germantown Cafe, Park Cafe, and Carrington Row.

52:58Now it's time to talk about Carrington Row. Woo! You got two restaurants and now you got three. Yeah. How is it going at Carrington Row? Tell me about Carrington Row. Well, Carrington Row is a child between Park Cafe and Germantown Cafe, right? So Park Cafe had such an amazing dinner menu. Germantown really excels in lunch and brunch. I think they have a strong dinner menu as well, but I think there's some obvious strengths. And so we were able to pick and choose from a menu perspective, our favorite dishes and our favorite flavor profiles, which we couldn't actually change at each place because there's been some core dishes that if you change, there would be torches. I've heard it, pitchforks and the whole thing, yeah. But with this new concept, we could have a little liberty and have perspective and change and tweak. And I honestly, 1,000, I wish I could take the Carrington Row menu and just put it on the other two. Like it is, in my opinion, so good. And it mostly just, that's just from me going to eat, look at the menus, like I want that today, I want this another day.

54:00And at the other restaurants, I kind of pick and choose the same few items just because of my preferences. You didn't touch the French onion soup. No, there's some things we didn't touch. Okay, I'm like, wait, because I've had it a couple times now at Carrington Row and it is beyond. Yeah, there's some things we didn't touch. Like we didn't touch the park salmon. Is it the salmon? We renamed it just because of, whatever, it's not park. But the coconut curry salmon, which is the top seller of Germantown, which a lot of people know, we actually did change that one, which that was the one thing that you wouldn't be able to do at Germantown, but we changed the sauce, tweaked it a little bit. I think it's even better, honestly, because there's a little heat to it now. I like a little heat. And there's more of it, which everybody, the pros at Germantown know always to order a couple. And I like shrimp better than I like salmon. Growing up in restaurants, I always had to eat scraps of salmon every single day. And so I prefer shrimp. And so we made it a shrimp dish instead of salmon. There's a handful of those others, but I highly prefer our menu, despite how good the other ones are.

55:05I prefer the Carrington Row one the most. I'm a little biased, though. But we wanted something that, again, being romantic about restaurants, we wanted a place that felt like it had been around forever, which was a challenge, or not a challenge, but just really working back and forth with designers. Powell's amazing. It's beautiful. Well, they created something that was like, that you would get downtown originally, right? That was very, I forget the ornamental, right? Gorgeous. But originally it was so gorgeous that I was like, oh, people might only come here once or twice a month because it's such an experience. And so I was actually like, we need to make this more of almost like a residential feel, where people come in and they feel at home. People in our generations, right, we know what it feels like, we know what it means when you say, oh, treat them like they're eating in your own home. People below our generation don't know what that means. That is not a term, they've heard it before.

56:06They might think they know what that means, but dinner parties, eating with your neighbors, that doesn't happen anymore. Like it just doesn't happen. No, not as much, for sure. I've never had my neighbors over for dinner. Right, and so I have a hypothesis that if you make something seem a little more residential, that is actually a good design trend. So we try to make it a little more, I'm trying to find the right word, but more approachable, you know? Nice but approachable. I mean, I think they did a really, really great job. I think they did a fantastic, yeah. I would say it's, it's weird, because if you don't know what Carrington Row is, there's a Chick-fil-A in Brentwood, right? Is it the Brentwood Square Shopping Center? What's the- Brentwood Place Shopping Center. Brentwood Place Shopping Center. So there's a bunch of, it's not a strip mall, but it is kind of a strip mall. There's a bunch of little places. There's a crema, coffee, a couple doors down. It's a very nice one, though. Very nice. It's very like hallmarked. Well, that's the thing is, like it's, you're kind of like, oh, Carrington Row, what is that? Then you walk in and you're like, wow, I didn't expect, like it's beautiful, and it feels like, just like a neighborhood, but like a really nice neighborhood restaurant, but then it's also not pretentious.

57:17The bar is fantastic. It's a huge bar. The, I don't know if it's Quartz or what it is, but it's Quartz, but it's big. It's comforting. French onion soup, the salmon, the whole thing. It's just, you guys did a really good job. I mean, the one thing is the sound, right? So we were talking about that before, and we put a lot of money into trying to prevent it, and you don't know. I like it. Well, but that's the thing. When we're downtown, the people that are from downtown, again, a lot of our other restaurants are just, have the same sound level, but it's just a different demographic, right? It's the suburbs. When you go out in the suburbs, you are focused on the people, right? When you're going downtown, you're a little bit more about the experience. You're just more used to that design, right? And so it's less jarring. And so, yeah, we have this week, we have some carpet that we really like is going in. We have sound dampening curtains. So it'll be night and day by the end of this month, hopefully in two weeks. I had to do that to this room.

58:18Yeah, you got all of it. This room like echoed like crazy when I got in here. I put curtains up and sound and now it doesn't. It's a thing. Yeah. So what's next for up hospitality? You guys got a fourth location in the mix right now, a fifth, a sixth, a seventh. What are you looking at? I mean, long-term, we want like at least two silos, right? So one is kind of what we consider. I don't really like calling it a cafe concept, but basically the same restaurant that Carrington Roe is. You want to scale Carrington Roe into the suburbs just because there's so many people from downtown moving to various suburbs. Would you call it Carrington Roe or do you have different names? So Carrington Roe is the brand. Yeah, we want the same name, same brand. What does it mean? What is Carrington Roe? Well, Carrington has the standing power. It feels like it's been there for a long time. And so it kind of has that je ne sais quoi of like Germantown Cafe and Park Cafe for Nashvilleians. That was the aim. And then the Roe is just like you were mentioning a way nicer way to say where it's at in Bretman, right? Okay. It also kind of adds a sense of approachability we thought.

59:20I think it's, I love it. And it's trademarkable, which the other two were not. Well, there you go. So we started with the other two, they weren't. And so we were trying to recreate that sense of standing power. That makes sense. And the vibe that we were going for. I love it. Well, Sean, I know that you've got to get going. We've got a big day today. You got a lot of stuff going on and thank you so much for coming by. The final thing we do is the Gordon Food Service Final Thought. You get to take us out, whatever you want to say. As long as you want to say it, you're talking to whoever's listening. I don't know. I always forget you say that. I should be prepared. I would say that to always remember like whether the restaurant industry is having a hard time, you're personally having a hard time. I always have to remind myself of this is that like life happens for us, right? And so I can say, you know, there are potential financial struggles for everybody in the restaurant industry right now. But the positive is it's forcing us to like put in the strongest controls that we can eventually teach other people about and you can come out stronger.

01:00:22So like, again, you're putting a situation to learn something, right? A dentist doesn't poke at your cavity tooth to hurt you. He points it out so he can fix it. And so like when you're getting shown something or feeling pain, it's so you can work through the pain and become stronger. So yeah. I love it. Thank you so much for joining us on Nashville Restaurant Radio. And thank you for being a member of NARA. That means a lot. Of course. It's been great. All right, buddy. We will see you again soon. Thank you. The incomparable Sean Lyons. Thank you, Sean, for joining us on the show. And thank you. If you want to learn more about Sean, same day we interviewed Sean, we also did an episode for the Brentwood Up podcast. It is on Spotify. I helped co-host the Brentwood Chamber of Commerce podcast as it's right next door to Mayor Bowl. And they asked me to, and I think I have a studio. So they were like, hey, why not? Let's do it. So we also interviewed Sean for that with the new restaurant, Carrington Row. We get into some of the more details of that, whole interviews, but kind of about that restaurant.

01:01:26So if you want to learn more, go check them out there on Spotify. That's it. That's all I got today. We got a lot of episodes coming up, like I outlined in the beginning. Go check our Instagram for the stories, for the questions to ask. And I hope that you are being safe out there. Love you guys. Bye.