The Gospel of Cocktail Podcast with Kala Ellis

00:00Welcome to the Gospel of Cocktail Podcast. Now here's your host, Kayla Ellis. Okay, welcome everybody to the Gospel of Cocktail Podcast. I have something really fun going on at the moment. I'm sitting here with Brandon still. I haven't had him next to me in a little while here in the studio. It's fun to be here. It's so cool. I'm literally sitting in the captain's chair. So this is a little messed up. I'm not going to lie. Well, I was going to ask you because me not sitting in that chair. I've never not sat in that chair. And then you're the only person that sat in that chair. You've sat in both. You've sat on both sides of the room. It's been interesting to kind of see the dynamics of going from somebody who was invited to speak with you. And now I'm inviting others to come speak with me.

01:00It's been really cool. Has it been interesting being the interviewer and planning and kind of getting ready for it? Because I can tell when I go through and edit a movie, put them together, I'm so impressed. I listen to these things and I go, if I had a vision for what I thought this was going to be like, it's exactly what you're doing. It's exactly what you're doing. Your level of professionalism with what you're doing and how you're doing it. You represent the craft of bartending as a profession. And I love that. And your and your your goal is to like tell people about it and bring awareness to like what's really going on. Yeah, it's been really special. I was in Florida. I was in Florida just like editing this episode and I was just sitting there just grinning middle of the day. And I'm like live texting you when this is fantastic. It's so good. It really does. It really does. It makes me so happy because I've talked about it a little bit here and there with some friends of just like this is joyful. This brings me a lot of joy to hear bartenders talk and share honestly what they're experiencing without you know, we haven't really geared the show the show towards guests in general.

02:09We've geared it more towards people in the industry. But it doesn't hurt. Nothing we're saying is we love our guests. You know, our guests help us keep the bills paid. So we're not saying anything that we don't feel confident that would like be bad for guests to hear. We don't feel like we're saying anything in that line of thought. There's always stuff the guests need. This is a behind the scenes look. Exactly. And that's what they need to know. Like what's really going on. This is there's no real way. I mean, that we can let people know like, you know, don't do that shit. Yeah, stop doing that. Yeah, really obnoxious. You can't do that at a table. You can't. There's no moment for that. But I mean, we have had it's been really cool. It's just been really cool hearing, you know, we're getting ready to hear from Jennifer Arnold in this episode. She is incredible. Such an awesome bartender. And she felt inspired to talk about mental health. So that's kind of woven throughout the episode. And it's and it's so fun to laugh and yet talk about mental health like such a serious subject.

03:09But sit there and just be like, we're surviving. We're here. We're making it. Everybody in this world right now has gone through a hard time the last couple of years. Yeah. So it's fun to like, like, just be honest. This is what we're seeing. This is what we're doing. And we're still making it. Man, I love it. I haven't listened to this one. I'm going to right now. We're doing this. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much for doing this. It means so much to me. And hopefully the people out there listening to this are just like, wow, that's really cool. I hope so. I'm hoping we can do some more after the six. I think so. I think we've got at least one geared up maybe. Yeah. And then, yeah, I think it'd be really fun. Y'all just pray that I don't get drowned in work. That's that southern side of me that's just like, y'all just look out for me. I have spurts. Like I have times where we'll do like four interviews in a day. Yeah, that's what I'm kind of imagining. Which is like the most draining thing you'll ever do. I don't know how like therapists sit and do many hours because, you know, when we do these interviews in this room, there's something that I hopefully I have somebody I can share this with now.

04:13Yeah. Like when you're done with an interview, like it's not like a casual conversation you have with somebody like you're in a quiet room. You have headphones on. You can't. Every once in a while an ambulance will go by or something like for all intents and purposes, like you are so locked in on this conversation. And when you're done, it's like, oh, man, that was there. They're intense. Are they emotional to you? Because I get like emotional like because it's it's the moment when you're with a guest. So if for bartenders out there who are listening to this part, when you have a guest that requires a lot of your attention and they're wonderful, delightful, it's not like they're being obtuse or or ridiculous. They just have a lot of things that they're bringing up and you enjoy the conversation. So you're connecting with your guest. You know that there's a huge payoff of this relationship you're building. And at the end of a shift, you've done that maybe 10 times. And so you just feel like there's a moment where you go home as a bartender and you just shut down in front of a TV or whatever it is.

05:16Some people crack open a beer or something. I personally just I can't even finish a drink like people like, what drinks do you make for yourself at home? I was like, no, I don't. I just go home and crash. We talked about it today. It was chefs when they get off work, like when they eat cereal. Yeah, that's what they do. Yeah. And unfortunately, I'm so wound up, too, that I can't sleep. But I'm also so drained because that was so much empathy and connection. And there's so much adrenaline in those moments. And so I can kind of see like in this podcast room, you are pouring everything you can into this conversation and you're very focused on how it comes out. So, yeah, I can see if you were doing a handful of those back to back, it'd be like those interactions at the bar top. It's the greatest feeling in the world because you just feel so connected. I love that. For so many times. We had three interviews today and it was like, oh, man. And I loved every single moment of all of them. But no, this has been pretty special. This is a good segue. I want to talk about our we're doing a contest.

06:18It is a bracket challenge. This is exciting. Yes, it's Mexican restaurants in Middle Tennessee. OK. And the idea behind this was, let's just do something fun. Let's do something fun that people can engage in. If the restaurants want to get involved and share it and like, you know, tell people, hey, go vote for us to be really, really cool. Like, this is something that we hope that people that it brings attention to. The one thing that, you know, doing this, putting this together, finding 64 Mexican restaurants. We asked a lot of people a lot of questions and a lot of recommendations because, you know, we're not in all these communities all the time. And so Hendersonville and Dixon and Ashland City and Murfreesboro. Yeah, I'm not there that often. So I don't know like the neighborhood restaurants, but we had a lot of input given to us. And then how do you see them and how do you you know what? All this stuff is new to me. And it's so it's so fun. There's so many great matchups. I wanted to go over a few of them with you. Tell me about them.

07:18So because I love Mexican food, first of all, first of all, second of all, third of all, I'm from Arizona. I love South America. I've gotten to go a handful of times. I live next to Mexico. I am close to fluent in Spanish. Like I'm telling you, I love Mexican food. So the fact that you are doing this, I'm like, yeah, bring up these Mexican restaurants. Let's find out like the people we know about the ones that everybody knows about. But you may not know about a handful of these. That's right. There's a bunch. I was like, I can't wait to go try. Yeah, I can't wait to see who kicks it in gear. Just because I want to see what the people think. Yeah. I mean, there's so many of these. I don't even know. I'm like, oh, my gosh. We'll just let's go down the list. And I want to I want to give a big shout out to net checks. Net checks is our partner in this. OK, they have sponsored the show. They want to support. They're really restaurant focused and they're doing some amazing things. H.R. payroll scheduling. They have this whole suite of things that just kind of do everything for you. It's really good technology.

08:18And Lauren and Anna have been so amazing. They said we would love to get people engaged. It's fun. We'll provide the prizes. It's called net checks. Net checks. Wow. OK. N.E.T. C.H.E.X. net checks. And Lauren is kind of their restaurant special. She's awesome. We're like, let's do something. Let's let's find something. The final four will do all will interview all four of the restaurants on the show going into the final week. I love that. And then we'll have the championship match at the final one. September 16th is Mexico's Independence Day. OK. So it's also my anniversary. So I know that. So we went to Mexico for our anniversary. Damn, they're throwing a party for us. This is awesome. And no, that's the Fourth of July. So we want to do something. We wanted to promote and build up these Mexican restaurants going into Mexico's Independence Day. Bring awareness to the fact that September 16th is Mexico's Independence Day. Let's have another day where everybody goes out and drinks tequila. Who doesn't like to party that way? I can't tell you a single name. So big thanks to Net Checks.

09:18But that's the idea. We're going to we're going to Net Checks is going to bring in mariachi bands. We're going to record live, do a live remote from the place. So I love to meet you guys. We're going to do all kinds of specials. Net Checks is going to take care of the winner for a little bit. They're going to give them a suite of their their product. And there's some really neat prizes for the winner, too, besides just the recognition. I may or may not have a plaque or trophy. Oh, yeah. You got to have a trophy. You have to. You have to. And this would be the first I think of many of these. I mean, this would be so much fun. Let's just systematically once everybody knows where to go for these these brackets. Yeah. Let's systematically just figure out the real best of Nashville. Yeah. Yeah. Not who's paying the most. Yeah. Nobody's paying anything for any of this. This is all for fun. Like there's now there's a couple when you vote, it has a YouTube video link. I went through I went through and entered every one of these. And then I found every single one of their web pages and attached the web page. If you click the info on any one of the restaurants in the voting tab, you can go to their website and see where they are, who they are.

10:23If you want to learn more about them, you don't know what they are. Just click the info button and it will go directly to their website. You can learn about them, follow them, whatever you want to do. That's awesome. I think you get two votes because I voted and now that I know this information, I'm going to go back through and click on the ones that I'm not too familiar with so that I can do a second time. Absolutely. And I don't think you have to vote for everyone. Yeah. Let me skip some. Yeah. If you don't know, you know, hey, I don't know either these restaurants. Yeah. Then just don't vote for that one because let's let the people who know I really want to find out like where people love what they love. And I want to find out when you get to that final four, I'm excited to go in and do like a deep dive and learn the people who work there. And I want to tell their stories. And there's a lot of fun things I want to do around this. It's not just a competition. Yeah. Like there's a lot of intention. And again, just super excited net checks. It's I think making a fairly stretched out community that much tighter. Yes. Yeah. All right. So here we go. I'm not going to tell you. There's already a bunch of votes in, by the way.

11:24Round one, Casa Viejo versus Chagos Smyrna. You don't have to tell yours. I'm not going to. I don't want them to know my heart. I'm just going to go over it for everybody out there. OK. I would feel so sad if one of them knew that I picked one over the other. I'm like, you can't know. In Bellevue, we have U.S. Border Cantina and they're going up against Tito's. That's going to be a hotly contested battle. I can tell you right now in the voting, that's going to be a hotly contested battle. Blanco, Cochina and Calacas. Calacas. I don't know. You can click on it and you can learn. There's so many of these. It's unbelievable. Local Taco versus Cinco de Mayo. OK. That's a big one right there. Cinco de Mayo is a that's a monster place. It's really close in the voting. Alfonso's and Memo's in Mount Juliet. Memo's is ahead on that one right now. Las Portales and Pancho and Lefty's. So we're going local. I mean, the main thing here is that we're talking about locally owned. Chewy's is not on here. Yeah. You know what I mean?

12:24That makes sense. If you have multi units, but it really needs to be based here in Nashville. If I missed one or two, like we put a lot of work into it, but you know, Oscar's Taco Shop versus Casa Fiesta. That one's going in a direction I wasn't sure about. Acapulco Mexican versus Taqueria del Sol. Nectar. This one. This one is this one is. Nectar Urban Cantina versus Mas Tacos. Mas Tacos. That's crazy. I mean, the two followings that both that's a that is a heavyweight round one. Yeah. That is a holy shit. Why did you do that in round one? And it selected a bunch and I left some of these as they were because I was like, let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Who's in the lead on that one? Is it close? It's close. It's separated by eight votes right now. Okay. So one of there is definitely a leader. I'm not going to say. Okay. I heard. But yeah. Campo Azul versus El Sombrero. Chagos.

13:24That's the one in Belmont versus De La Paz. That's hotly contested at this point. Sopa Pia's in Franklin versus Saint Inejo. That is a big. That's going to get dirty too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That one's going to get dirty in round one. Completely different communities and. Different communities. Yeah. And both powerhouses. Yeah. In their communities. Slightly different audiences, honestly. Yeah. But. Well, we're going to see what happens there. That's cool. El Matate. Is it El Matate? El Matate? I think it's El Matate. El Matate, yeah. Los Maracas are together. One of those is running away with it. Garcia's versus Don Pancho's. Garcia's and Franklin. Huge following. I remember when I was younger. Great food. That's where we would go after a game. Oh, so good. That's where we go at playing lacrosse or basketball. We would all go out to Garcia's or Pancho's. Or La Hacienda was right there. La Hacienda too. Yeah. But always Mexican food. Always.

14:24But I think Garcia's and Pueblo's was like the number ones. Cilantro versus Las Palmas. OK. Las Palmas is a heavyweight. Cilantro's right up with them. Yeah. Right now. Yeah. That could go either way. It could. I mean, it's one point away. Cilantro versus Las Palmas. Is Cilantro newer than Las Palmas? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I thought so. Las Palmas has been around forever. Yeah. Mexicali Grill versus Taqueria San Luis. That would be the 16th game. We've got Frida's Oaxacan and Camino Real Murfreesboro. Camino Real Murfreesboro. Frida's Oaxacan cuisine. That's going to be an interesting one. I will tell you right now that it's tied. That is a tie score. Pueblo Real versus Cancun Bellevue. Damn. That's another monster. Yeah. Because Pueblo Real and Franklin. It's a mainstay. And so Pueblo Real also owns Tito's. So they're on here twice. Yeah. They own two completely different restaurants.

15:24Yeah. Is Oscar's connected to them as well? No. Oscar's and Victor's and the West Coast are all kind of brothers, but they're not the same. Got it. Okay. As far as I know. Don't quote me. I think that's the situation. But wow. Pueblo Real and Cancun. One of those is running away with it. Right now. Oh, scary. At this point. I'm not going to say who. I don't know if that's how they want it to be pronounced, but that's how I would read that. You know, just because we've butchered that, I'm going to tell you that they're at 5913 Morrow Road in Nashville. They are, they have, they have 23 ratings or a 4.9 rated restaurant. They're, they're rocking and rolling. Takria La Huclita. Gosh, I'm terrible. Perfect. You nailed it. That was excellent. I'm so embarrassed right now. Don't be. Don't be. Oh my God.

16:24People are like, what the fuck is this guy doing? Well, I mean, audience, people who would be going to these places would probably pronounce it the way you saw it. So you're just giving them a head start. We have another heavyweight in round one. Okay. These, these, this is like a two versus a three seed, maybe a one versus a two. I don't know. Okay. Mojo Tacos versus La Hacienda. Okay. I mean, there's, there's some intermingling there. Las Fiestas versus, uh, El Hallicense. Do you know? Hallicense? I have not been. El Hallicense. They're, Hallicense's up. I shouldn't say that. Really? But they're up right now over Las Fiestas. Mojo Tacos versus Mazatlan and Dixon. West Coast Taco Shop versus Alabrije. Okay. Alabrije the other day at the soccer stadium. Was it good? No. It's amazing. Redheaded Stranger versus La Terraza. Yeah. Wow. That is a really good matchup. Man. They both have great margaritas.

17:24Um, Redheaded Stranger has great to go. I have an order to go from the other. So. Okay. Well, there you go. El Mulcajete versus El Fuego. A couple L's. Okay. Cabos versus El Paseo. Okay. That's tied right now. Victor's Taco Shop versus El Monte. Pancho's Place versus Super Rica. Oh. Wow. You have like a traditional versus completely different styles. Yeah. That could be really interesting. That is really close right now. I know where I would vote in that situation, but I'm not going to share. I know what kind of person I am is what I'm actually saying. The real Cali Taco versus El Rey Azteca. Fugato's Mexican versus Taqueria Azteca. Mais de la Vida versus El Aguero. That's the hardest one of all of it for me, like literally, because El Aguero is my spot. Okay. That's the one that we go to like twice a week. That's your spot. That's my spot. It's in Bellevue.

18:25That's like my, I see all my neighbors there. Yeah. Yeah. That is my, that's my spot. Used to be Cancun, sometimes on the border, but it's always El Aguero. Yeah. That's the spot. They know you there. They've got your stuff ready to go. I know. One, Sergio, everybody. I know Sergio too. I didn't know Sergio went there. He used to be at, he was at Pueblos for a while. His sister, Mary Sala is amazing. We gave her presents when she had a baby, like, I mean, like we're like, this is my spot. Yeah. But he's up against Mais de la Vida and Julio Hernandez. That's my boy. Yeah. I don't know. Like he's like one of my favorite people in the world. Like I love Julio. Yeah. But what he's doing at Mais de la Vida is, I don't know. That's hard. That's like, I know which one I think could be, it's better, but I know which one my heart, it's. Yeah. What do you do there? What do I do there? What do you, where are you going to vote? I get two votes. Yeah. You get two votes.

19:25So they just cancel each other out. They both get some love. The final one is going to be another battle that's very similar. Mestizos in Bellevue versus, if there's one restaurant we haven't mentioned so far, it would be the Rose Pepper. Oh, okay. I mean. I was trying to think of what you hadn't said yet. We've already had a post. Somebody said, what about succulent vegan tacos? You didn't make them the list. And you know, yeah, yeah, they should have made the list. Yeah. I'm, there's definitely going to be people that we miss. There's going to be things where we're human. We're trying to do this thing the right way, but yeah. And there's so many different awesome spots in Nashville to go to, to see. So there's no doubt that there's going to be other places that didn't make the list either that deserve to be on there. But in reality, what can you do? You have 64 slots. You do it out there. Have some fun with it. Go to, here's how you vote. You go to NashvilleRestaurantRadio.com.

20:25Okay. And on the homepage right there, it's a picture of, it's like a fuzzy picture of me. I don't know why that's what it is. It's just the picture that I chose. I can help you make a new picture if you need it. Thank you. I definitely need that. I'm like, I did click on it. I'm like, Hey, there's Brandon. Yeah. You click on it. Then you just scroll. Just like the very, just scroll up and then right there, it is a button that says vote. You just click vote. It takes you directly to it. Yeah. They get to put your email address in, which I believe I get to keep that data. Yeah. I would send you all emails that say, Hey, NashvilleRestaurantRadio is this. Yeah. I won't spam you. I promise. Yeah. I don't plan on doing anything like that. Yeah. Just to know who's out there. Who's the restaurant? Who's looking out for the restaurant? I'm not doing it. Yeah. I'm not doing anything with it. If anything, I would like to be able to use, you know, send out an email that said, Hey, free whatever here. Let me promote people. Your restaurant just won or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. So be nice to build a database. That's all it's used for. I will not just do anything with those.

21:25Yeah. No commercials and garbage, but. No. So mine, I just put, I put my first name, Kayla, and then put in my email. It just took me a couple of seconds, um, truly. And I, at first, I'm not going to lie. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to have to enter each one of these. And then I started clicking it and it started flipping through it immediately. So it was just like next. So as soon as I clicked on it, it was fast. I was like, I don't know if I can, like, if I want to go through all every bracket, but then once, once it starts, it flips through it for you. 32 of them in a row. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. So you don't really, you're not getting stuck. Uh, like it doesn't, you have to, you don't have to type anything or enter it. No, there's no next where you accidentally hit an ad, nothing like that. It's just a. It went right through it really fast. Um, yeah. And I, I hopefully voted for all the places that you guys will agree are the best. That's a political nice way to say that. Okay. We're like 20 minutes in 22 minutes and holy shit. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you guys.

22:25Thank you for being here. And doing this, this has been special to share this with you and I'm looking forward to these next four episodes. We had another one. Yeah. Um, yeah, a little bonus one. We brought Laura in from the Fox bar. I cannot wait to share that with everybody. Her insight on the numbers behind the bar scene are on point. It's really fun to talk with someone who's kind of in the same. So far I've talked mostly with, uh, bartenders and folks that are like, so Robert was a song and then bartenders are on the every day kind of grind. Those are the, those are the folks that have been on the episode so far. Laura is the first person I've talked with that is on also my side of things too. That means like I'm running inventory, I'm running numbers, I'm, you know, running poor costs, running a program. And so it was fun for me to kind of geek out with her about some of that side of it. Oh, that's my, I can't wait to hear that. Yeah, that was good. It was good. Andrew, who is the owner of the Fox club and elegy coffee, he's going to be on the show next week.

23:29We're going to love that. I think that's going to be such a good thing to listen to you guys. The Fox bar is awesome, but for today we're talking with Jennifer Arnold and she is fantastic. Right now. I believe you can find her at the Hermitage hotel. She's in the basement in their new location down there and they're fully developing their vibe and their style for that bar down there. Yeah. Yeah, it's not, it's a different space now. So let me pull it up. It's not the Oak bar anymore. No, it's got a different, it's got a different name. I know John George has his restaurant there, but I didn't know that they changed the name of the Oak bar. Yeah. Hang on. I'll find it. Cause I'm not great at remembering things, you guys. Um. Everybody's out there going, I came to listen to that right at the hero. This bullshit. Yeah, exactly. What do you, I didn't know I was going to get to go, you're going to go over the whole damn bracket. Jesus. You know, now everybody who also likes, um, bars can, if you like bars, you like Mexican food. Let me promote, uh, Friday when this will be out Wednesday, Friday, we are going to have Sandy Gennaro and he is a motivational speaker, but he's also the drummer for Cindy Lauper.

24:37He was Cindy Lauper's drummer on Girls Just Want To Have Fun. He was Joan Jett's drummer. He was a drummer for the Monkeys for many years until, uh, Mickey Dolan's or Davy, one of those guys died and then they couldn't do it anymore. Uh, he was with Bo Diddley. He's done so many things. He's done Howard Stern three times. That's awesome. I was very jealous of him, but we had a wonderful conversation. So fun to talk to him. That's going to be a great episode. That's going to be on Friday. And then we got the guys who own, um, the Pearl Diver, Ben and Jamie. Also amazing people. My, like my new favorite people there. It was so much fun. I can't lie. Every time I see them, it's kind of like, I feel, I'm like embarrassed, like, do you guys remember me? Like I came in, had a drink at your bar and sometimes you have drinks at my bar and I don't know if you remember me or not, but hi, that time, it was really cool. That's how I feel. Every time I see them. Cause I love them so much. Uh, her bar is called Druze and Dar. Druzy and Dar. Yeah. Yeah. The two kids that would, that's the name of the restaurant. Yes.

25:38Yes. And I was sure that I was going to say that incorrectly. Um, so I was like, I have to look this up because I do not trust myself with names. There's an old general manager for the Hermanage hotel forever. And he was there for a long time. He had two children, Druzy and Dar, that were like raised inside the hotel. So they were running the halls of the hotel all the time and they named the new restaurant after those two children. I love that story. That's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. Like I, I will remember your drink forever. If you come sit at my bar, I will remember what you drank last time I made a drink with you, even if it was like a year ago. Typically I remember for like, even if it was just one time, but something like that, the names of those two boys. I'd be like, there's a story about two boys and their names were something and it was really cute. But yeah. Folks, we're going to jump in this episode. I can't wait guys. You're going to love Jennifer as well. She's awesome. So let's get into it. Welcome, Jennifer. Hello everybody. I've got the wonderful Jennifer Arnold with me right now.

26:47Jennifer Arnold. That's you brother girl. I love it. It's my first time hearing it like that. Well, tell them why. Well, I just got married last year and I made the decision, it took about a year to make the decision to change my name and I decided to go for it. So now I'm Jennifer Arnold. Well, I will be when the paperwork is like, I'm still Jennifer Jackson today. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you took your time deciding that though. Yeah. You owned it. Yeah. It's a lot of paperwork. It is. All of this paperwork, everything. Yeah. Well, let's tell everybody who you are and tell them where you're at right now where they can find you. Okay. So like she said, I'm Jennifer Arnold. Right now I'm working at Druzy and Dar in the Hermitage Hotel. It is a Jean George restaurant. It is where the Oak Bar used to be formerly. Now it's got like this real sort of luxury cruise or like Miami vibe. It's really like white and like light pink and light blue and pearl and all of that. So it's really, really cool.

27:48And we've got a really cool bar program that's still gaining its feet because it's only been open since November. That's amazing. Yeah. I love being in a bar program that's just kind of like getting its vibe. Yeah. Because if you can come in during that stage, you're a part of that story now. Exactly. It's so fun. Yeah, exactly. I'm really honored. I feel like I was kind of like headhunted because I was in a cocktail competition with my bar manager. Okay. Neither of us won. But you know, so now I have to beat him eventually. But yeah, so. Well, you know, that's the way people don't know enough about those competitions. Those are not things to win necessarily. It's fun to win or it's fun to get into it for that reason. Yeah. But honestly, those competitions are for networking. A hundred percent. I didn't know that going in because I didn't expect to go as far as I did in that last competition. It was for Woodford Reserve. And so when I got to be like a finalist, a regional finalist, I was like, whoa, well, now I want to win, you know, like five G's and like go.

28:52But you're hungry for it now. Yeah. Yeah. I love the competitions. I get a little tired of them because like they're they're super fun. And every time I go, it's just such a cool opportunity to meet people. I think competitions in town are getting a little bit better about not necessarily like taking advantage of the bartenders. Yeah. Yeah. It's been cool to see that change. They were like that in the Woodford competition. And I didn't actually know when I became a finalist, everybody that I knew that was prepping me was like, OK, you're going to need to make enough for 300 cocktails and you're going to have to do all this. And it's like six hours, but it's so much fun. And then got into that first meeting and they were like, we're not going to make you work all day. Like this is your day off. And I was like, oh, that's the first this is one of the first times they've done that switch. Really? Yeah. Because in the past, it's always been like a large group coming through. And you know, honestly, it's always fun and like I've always enjoyed it. But there's a certain point when you start to when you start getting further in the competitions and you realize that there's some like career, this is a career opportunity for you.

29:58There's like a moment where you realize like, hey, my time is worth something, right? And I'm taking a night away from work. So that means no money that night. You're not necessarily getting paid. You're not getting paid most of the time, unless you win, unless you win. And even then, that's not necessarily direct money in your pocket. Right. But yeah, so I love doing competitions, they're 100% worth it. So I will not crap on them. But it does mean that you have to be aware that you are giving up a lot. Yeah. And you get a lot in return. It's a good thing. It's fun. It's, it's a really cool way to network outside of industry parties, which are also fun. But I am 43. And I cannot rock a hangover like I had when I was 21. So like, you can give me like 16 free cocktails and the next day I'm just, I can't, I'm not a human anymore. It's the worst. Yeah. Like, thank God that I realized that sobriety could look like different things for myself. Yeah. Because like, literally, I could not do what I used to do.

31:00Yeah. It would be so bad. And I used to think that, you know, sobriety, sobriety for a lot of people is either quitting entirely. That's what they need to do. For some people, it's just like a little bit here and there. For me, it's like, if I start to feel a major buzz, I, or like, you start to feel like you're that like kind of feel goody moment of when your skin is like feeling like a little buzzy. You're like laughing a little bit easier and it's like conversation is a little bit easier. And you're like, oh, this is good. I want more of this. Yeah. So that's the moment where I'm like, I don't need more of this. Just enjoy this right here. It's just so hard to regulate when it's free because like, if you have your own wallet at stake. Yeah. You know, it's like, I'm obviously not going to spend $200 tonight, so I'm going to regulate. But when somebody is just coming around with like a tray of drinks all the time, it's really hard to regulate. That's such a good point. That is such a good point because it's so easily accessible in our community. And we justify a lot of bad behaviors for each other. I mean, it's something that for me, it's been part of the struggle and part of my journey because bartending both saved my life, but also put me in places where I could abuse the things that were kind of comforting or easy to like run away from.

32:16Yeah. I do want to, before we get into like the deep good stuff, because I'm so excited about this conversation. Oh, me too. Me too. Oh my good Lord. All week. Yeah. It's going to be so good. So first of all, let's share this little drink that we're sipping on. I'm almost done with it actually. It's so good. We've been sipping. Yeah. So I know that you love, and because I asked you, I know that you love Montenegro daiquiris. Yeah. I actually just got into them. Yeah? Yeah. Well, somebody told, well, I had these really awesome bartenders from Kentucky come and sit at my bar and they were talking to me about Amaro daiquiris. And I was like, well, obviously I have to get into that now. Let me try this. Yeah. Yeah. It's really good. It's amazing. We call them snackeries. Yes. We call a team of us at Grey's, and I know lots of bars that call it that. I don't know how these words pass down to each other and how I can go to another bar and ask for a snackery and people know exactly what that is. Well, it's like the half daiquiri, right?

33:16It's a half daiquiri, but it's often like, and at least the popular thing that I've tried with a handful of bartenders is like an Amaro daiquiri that's small. So usually for net, like usually, or a daiquiri with a little bit of for net. A for net daiquiri? Oh, I don't know. It's so good. Really? It's so good. Because it feels like it would punch you in the face. It does a little bit, but it's, it's like dry and sometimes like you can do it either way. You can either do a split base ratio with half the rum, half the for net. You can do a full for net daiquiri. But if you're using demerara sugar instead of just simple syrup, you get like that brown sugar note and that kind of like vanilla undertone. That makes sense. It's so good. Yeah. Okay. Well, I obviously have to try that now. Now you got to try it. So what we're drinking right now, I made you another Amaro kind of daiquiri, but I used hoodoo, which is a chicory liqueur. I love it.

34:17And then I use lemon instead of lime. And we're serving it on some ice just to keep it nice and chill. Yeah. I honestly have not had hoodoo outside of the context of coffee or hot chocolate. It's so good in those places too. Yeah. So yeah. So that's awesome. Awesome. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. It's a, a cat head product product based out of Missouri, I believe. Really? I think it's Missouri. Yeah. And then, and they do, I'm almost positive. Uh, they do a lot of, uh, give back to musicians. I knew that about cat head. It's pretty dope. And so hoodoo is a cat head product. Okay. That's awesome. Yeah. It's very good. Um, I did put a little bit of the lemon heart, uh, 151 rum in there. Okay. So that's where that is. So that's that little warming. Yeah. But let's clean glasses, my love. Oh, yes. Absolutely. Cheers. I'll take it. It's really good. I like it. I drink it way too fast. Yeah. I'm, I'm happy about it. Yeah, for sure. I didn't know if it was going to turn out because I was just trying to rock the cocktail and get it over here so you didn't have to wait on me too long before we got ready to go outside though.

35:28Yeah. I don't know. It's like you go for like two or three weeks where you just feel oppressed by the sun. It was awful. It was terrible. And now you're like sitting outside and there's a breeze and you're like, this is fine. I'll take this. Yeah. This is fine. Yeah. Um, well, okay. I want to get into your story of why did you even get into bartending? Oh my God. I don't know. I know you've talked to two other bartenders. Mine is completely based in like pop culture because I was about 12 years old when cocktail came out. Okay. And I saw it at least 10,000 times. Really? I used to have the last barman poet, like poet, like the little poem. That's so sick. Memorized. But like when I was younger, I thought that bartenders were the coolest people on the planet. Right. You know, they're flipping and all this and like, you know, in the early nineties, it was very like, you know, uh, TGI Fridays was the best and coolest place to be. And they have all that flair and those buttons and they're throwing shit.

36:28Yeah. It's great. But, um, the, nobody ever wanted to hire me as a bartender. I always ended up as a server and they'd be like, we'll promote you. But then like, I would never get off the floor. But I finally got, um, like a job where they would put me behind the bar. And I kind of, that's where I got like the really insane sort of work ethic. Like, well, now that I'm here, I have to be the best. I have to absolutely dominate the well so that nobody else, you know, so they'll understand why I belonged here. So proving yourself. Yeah. I never got to throw a bottle, but not too late, not too late. I want to learn how to throw tins. Yeah. Preston can throw a tin where he like, yeah, it's where you, you know what I'm talking about? I've seen it. I can't do it. He pops that up and then catches it. Yeah. I've never been able to do it. I have a couple of things that I love to do. Yeah. But yeah, I, so, um, there's a bartender I used to work with in Franklin, um, named Kyle Horvath. And I think I know him. You have to know him. Yeah.

37:28Um, he's been, he's not bartending these days. Uh, he's an amazing musician. You were Dick Gray's? Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No, I definitely know him. Yeah. Yeah. He was such a sweetheart. He is such a sweetheart. Um, but he has a little kid and him and his wife, Micah taught their kid to cheers and also to say bar flair. Amazing. So we had this ongoing joke that like, we would just like throw a jigger in the air and be like, bar flair, like just like toss it and be like, bar flair, bar flair. And so their child will both cheers you with his sippy cup and, and go a bar flair and throw something and be like, bar flair. I think it's so cute. I love that. Um. I had a kid at my bar order, um, exactly what his dad ordered, um, except for with no alcohol. So his dad was like, Oh, I'll have like a gray goose and soda with a little bit of grapefruit and a lime. And he was like, I will have a Sprite with a little bit of grapefruit and a lime. Oh my gosh.

38:29I love when kids, I guess it's not that healthy, but it's really funny. I think it's cute. Cause it's like, like when I make a cocktails for people and I see that there's like someone underage at the table, if I can, I'm going to make them a mocktail. I'm going to make them something zero proof or if there's someone who's not drinking and they're curious about getting a drink, I'm definitely going to make them a zero proof drink. Especially if somebody's like pregnant or something because like, I mean, just because their mom doesn't mean that they don't want something fun. And it's sad cause they just are like, Oh, I'm so, I miss drink, you know, but you want to give them something fun to drink, you know, while they're there. When you go out, you're going out to run away for a second to find a little reprieve from the world going on around you. And there's a moment where it's like, I want to treat myself. And a lot of people who don't drink for whatever reason, sometimes don't feel like they get that enjoyment. They're not treating themselves. They're still either slightly seeing it like I have to hold back.

39:29I can't, I need to get this soda water with lime. With that sometimes, like they just don't know that zero proof drinks even exist. Right. Well, and no shade to, I mean, you're talking about like seed lip and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. And so now that seed lip is getting a little bit more popular and other brands of zero proof drinks exist, my zero proof menus are improving too. Yeah. Ritual is another really good one. I've been looking into them. Yeah. I've heard of them too. They're amazing. Their rum is fantastic, but it's not mass produced yet. That's the thing. The only thing, well seed lip is all of the different spirits, the only one I've worked with is the gin. Yeah. Yeah. I like seed lip except they're one thing about, like it's not that I don't like seed lip. It's that I have different goals with what I'm using. So seed lip is an infusion of a variety of different flavors and they have a handful where they are imitating like spirits, but they're almost like complete cocktails in a sense. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.

40:30And so for a lot of people who maybe don't make drinks at home, seed lip is perfect. Right. But at a bar, I like the ritual options because it's like just their quote unquote tequila and rum and whiskey. Yeah. No, you want something like that if you're like, if you want to do even just an imitation of something that other people at the table are drinking. Yeah. Yeah. Which reminds me speaking, you were, sorry, totally off subject, but you were talking about making drinks at home. Have you seen the Keurig for cocktails? I've seen that. How did, tell me how that makes you feel. Many feelings. I think it's probably okay for whoever wants it. Yeah. It's probably going to be tasty. I think it's kind of more or less unneeded. Like, yeah, it's just, well, it's all really easy drinks, like a daiquiri or a Cosmo or an old fashioned, which is the easiest build in the world, but literally I feel, well, there's this woman who's like, well, at home I have this, so I don't need a bartender.

41:30And I was like, what? Yeah. See, I think those things will fall away. I really do. You think so? Yeah, because like when you go out, you, people come to sit at a bar for like two reasons. Yeah. Sometimes it's to interact with others and sometimes it's to hide from others. And so if somebody's out at a bar and either has a book or their phone on them, they pretty much are just trying to hide out and have a good drink while there's an environment around them that they enjoy. And then there's others who come to you to have a conversation, to seek your counsel, and they may not even know it. But at those two intersections. Look, I work at a bar because I like to hear other people's drama, I'm here for their gossip and their tea, and they don't know that I can hear them. Yes. Like this is, you guys, if you're listening, we hear every word, we hear every word. Just give us a little backstory. Like that wouldn't hurt. Like who is Lisa? Why is he texting her? I mean, I just need a little context here.

42:33I need to know whose side to be on. Stop trying to whisper. Because it's not good whispering anyway. I think that's so funny. I honestly like I pick and choose though. Like I'm so used to like I can hear everything that the guests say, but most of the time you tune it out just because you're working. And there are moments that if you've got those bartender ears, you like you can tell when it's like, did I hear you need a refill? Did I hear that we need some? It's like all of a sudden, or you can also in your ears perk up when you're like, ooh, this lady is uncomfortable with this gentleman that she's seeing. Like you're just something sets you off and you're like, I need to be present. If anything goes further, or like this guy is now crossing into like an angry place and it's going to get worse. Yeah. So I need to kind of be close by. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I mean, I'm here for all of that. I'm here for keeping the guests safe, but I also just like really want to know, like really want to know. I actually had some guests that were talking to me about how they didn't want to go to a really close friend's wedding and that it was coming up.

43:36So they had to either say yes or no now. And like the wedding, the couple met at summer camp. So the wedding is summer camp themed. These were two vehemently anti-camping people, so they were like, it's set in the invitation to bring bug spray. And I was like, oh God. And I looked up and I was like, listen, I'm sorry. I could hear everything you said. Please tell me more. I need to know why. I need to know. Yes. Everything. Yeah. Oh God. Oh my gosh. That's so cute. Yeah. It was funny. She was like, I'm diabetic. What if something happened in the woods? And I was like, I mean, you're in a camp. And she's like, no, I can't. I a little bit. So like, I wish I were an outdoor person. I'm just terribly afraid of bugs. That's completely fair. Bugs are terrifying. They're scary and yucky. Yeah. I don't want them to suffer or die. I just don't want them on me or anywhere in the range where they can get in my ears or nose or that's I just don't want them to be like in an orifice.

44:43They will find a way and I just don't want them. That's so specific. I love that. No, I you and I differ in that I do want them to suffer and die. And I will straight up antagonize like a wasp because a wasp is different than a bee. Yeah, true. It's just like, I'm protecting my home and my family and these flowers. And a wasp was like, what's up, you little bitch? They are looking for damage. They're like, this is going to fucking hurt. I cannot stand it. I like no, I just don't want the buzzing sound. Nothing. I don't want it. No, no. It's not needed in my life. Well, if it's coming at me, then I am allowed to come at it. Yes. I know that it is. That's probably an unhealthy, like, aggression, like this is a use of aggressiveness and rage. But sometimes you got to do what you got to do. And I'm not trying to get stung today. Well, hey, we got options out there and there are enough things that I hold back my rage on.

45:45There's enough things I hold back my rage on. It is not going to be a wasp attacking me. No, sir. No, no. Back the hell up. I know I got bitten. No, I mean, I got stung by a bee. Like when I was working, actually, I was working at a pool bar and I got stung by a bee and I swelled up my, it was on my arm and my arm swelled up so bad I couldn't bend it for like a full day. And that was just embarrassing because it was like, either I'm allergic or I'm not. Like this, I can't work like this is just embarrassing. And like, I was just I was like, OK, well, OK, it's me against nature now. Like that was that's the origin story against the world. This means work. So I reject all things in this nature. I just like we were talking, it was nice that day outside the greenery, like that speaks to me. It makes me feel great. But, yeah, I just I can't with the bugs. Yeah. I mean, I like to hike.

46:45Well, you know, John and I had our wedding outdoor and, you know, we provided bugs, right? Like it's all the same. So I laughed when they said that, because I was like, oh, that's exactly right. Literally anywhere. That's so kind, though, because if you're going to be outside and weddings outside are gorgeous, you want to be close to nature. That's beautiful. I mean, that was mainly and also it was, you know, like 2021. So I wanted to make sure that we were isolated. That's smart. And but like, that's about it. I mean, I can go hiking, but I don't I used to love camping when I was in my 20s. You know, just like being outside and like you sleep really good in a tent for some reason. But also crash so many bugs and eating out of a tin can. Like I don't like living like I'm in the past. We are in 2022. Yeah, I do not need this. I need some Wi-Fi. You need a nice, comfortable bed. I do like the escape of it. I mean, so not to transition harsh here, but I think it flows with what we're talking about, because a couple of things, the rage that I feel towards bugs and that I get to explore with bugs, I don't explore in the rest of my life.

47:55Right. And the other thing is like being outdoors and seeking kind of like the joy of being out in nature. Right. We don't really experience that. We're in the bar world. We don't. We have a particular schedule is typically leaning towards the night. Time off is kind of a joke for most of us. Yeah. That's when you do your other things that you've needed to do all week. Like sleep. Right. Or laundry. Laundry. Go do errands, which is the worst thing in the world. Yeah. Yeah. Actually the worst thing. Yeah. Yeah. So like, one of the things that I think I could explore more that I would like to explore more is, and I mean, all jokes aside, I do hate bugs, but all jokes aside, I would like to explore outdoors more. I've been working on some habits for myself. I've been like practicing singing a little bit more just for my joy. You're amazing by the way. No, don't. No. Okay. What? Why? But like you put it on like TikTok. It's like public. I'm trying to.

48:55You have a beautiful voice. Oh, this is bad. I didn't mean to do this. Just saying. Thank you. You're welcome. I just get a lot of joy from it. And so I don't feel like it's great, but I also like sharing it. And I like trying to be intentional about it. And Brandon, who's going to be on our next episode, he encouraged me. He's our head bartender at Oak and he encouraged me to like seek this out. And there's some healthy things that we can do as bartenders to find habits that are outside of the workplace that are like good for us, you know, uplifting and maybe feed a different part of our soul. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that and we'll get into this further, but like I sought some intensive therapy recently. And one thing that was really well, I learned that I really crave silence and I never thought that about myself because I've worked in bars since I was 21. So I thought I always needed sound, I always needed something in the background.

49:56And this is so weird. The restaurant that I work at has a silent kitchen. And when you walk out of the dining room and out of the bar and into the kitchen, it's like it's like walking into an air conditioned room after being outside. Yeah. You're just suddenly like, oh, like I didn't know I needed that so much. And that's like part of like me looking for an escape. I like being outside when I can see the stars and I bought myself a hammock. So when it's like nice, I can like, like lay outside or something. Yeah, no, it's all about trying to find well, work life balance. It's like such a cliche term, but you have to find a balance because I think that what we all learned in 2020 is that if you have no balance, that if something gets pulled away, then you're going to topple over. You're going to be it's it's truly like when 2020 happened, I had to answer the question for myself of who I am without work. Right. And I don't know. I mean, for me as an individual, it's a specific journey of like, wow, I don't know who I am without work, because I've been working since I was young.

51:02Like, I think I started off, of course, babysitting, taking care of siblings. That doesn't count, but it does count. But I also worked with a small art company and I think I started that at 16. Oh, that's really cool, though. It was awesome. It was awesome. It was very small. I just did like I helped them build their frames and wire their frames and, you know, clean up their canvases with their prints, that kind of thing. But I started that so young and it was just this mentality of like, no one's coming to save you. Oh, no one's coming. You said a mouthful there. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it was just like, I've got to start and keep going. And I'm still a single woman. I'm still an individual that I have to seek out my well-being because I know no one else is going to. Right. Oh, a hundred percent. Even if you're coupled up, that's almost, you know, you have your partner's well-being a hundred percent in mind. But at the end of the day, you have to take care of yourself so you can be an active partner.

52:05Exactly. So because if you have an empty well or a dry well, there's nothing left to give. Right. And these are the kind of things that like, I mean, it's obvious more or less to us. Like we know these on a sheet of paper. I could write down things that are just facts and knowledge that we know about taking care of ourselves. Right. But living it is so challenging. It really is. It's so challenging. Yeah. I love that you chose that you've been able to seek out therapy and help for yourself. I know for me, and I'm just going to share this really quickly, because I think it'll give my context for why I think your story is so valuable and so precious, but I thought I was going to be a teacher most of my life, my whole life. And when I realized that that wasn't satisfying or the right thing for me, that that wasn't the right fit, there was a lot of other challenges that went on. I fell into bartending and it did save my life a hundred percent, gave me purpose, gave me push, gave me drive in a very dark time.

53:13In the midst of trauma, in the midst of all that kind of garbage, it was like a chance for me to find value that was outside of teaching and outside of my concepts of what success were. And it really retrained me. And then over the years, I've had to rework my idea of personal value and worth. And in 2020, we had to answer that question of what is my worth without production? Right. Because our worth does not come from production. Right. I mean, we're outside of the girl boss kind of like hustle culture now, but we were all very much in it then. And you got to keep yourself busy. If you're not busy, then you're not doing nothing. Yeah. Yeah. You're less valuable if you're not succeeding or achieving or producing. Or trying to. Yeah. Or trying to. Yeah. And even the suffering was considered a work ethic or the suffering was considered a moral quality. Right. I look back at that and I kind of just sort of am shocked at myself.

54:17I'm so different now because I used to be that person where I'd be like, I've worked four doubles this week. Like, oh, I've only had probably 18 hours of sleep this week. I used to brag about how tired and exhausted I was. And that's like not a brag. That's terrible. Yeah. But like, yeah, no, we all used to do the same thing. And it's like, I kind of shut down and went into sloth mode in 2020. Like I was just sort of like, I'm going to watch all this TV. I'm going to eat. I'm going to drink. I'm going to like, you know, I'm going to enjoy my time. You call it sloth mode. I call it survival mode. Yeah. Well, it was just like, and it was really hard to get my motor back going once I had to. Yeah. But like, no, I mean, everything that you're saying, especially for me, and like, you know what I just said, especially like keeping busy and feeling like I had to keep busy or I wasn't like a good person. That's a thing. It's like literally you'll have your scheduled day off and you'll be laying there enjoying just not doing anything. And suddenly you feel like I should be productive. I should have guilt. I need to go clean. I need to do something, you know, and it's it's not safe.

55:18Yeah. Like that's not safe behavior. It's not. And so like that's so hard to admit to because we still and we said this earlier that like the persona of bartender is badass. Yeah. And you're not supposed to feel feelings and you're not supposed to need a break. And I know that there are places that I've worked that where I literally would go for 12 hours without peeing. And it was like, I'm this badass who doesn't need to pee. I need nothing. Right. Yeah. Or like, you know, you hurt yourself. You slice your finger open with a peeler, which is the worst thing. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God. Especially when it's like because you're like, oh, it's not that bad. The individual cuts. Yeah. Those suck like the slices. But like the ones where you do it with a peeler, it shaves skin off to where it's like, you know, it's going to be bad when it's like you don't see any blood. It's just like water. White. And then all of a sudden, it'll turn like you see these little porous dots. Yes.

56:18Oh, my God. And then it does not stop. And then the pain comes. Yeah. No, but like you keep working. You just wrap a paper towel, throw a glove on a glove on it. Let it bleed. I've worked a shift where I cut myself so bad that I had. But I didn't leave because it was in the middle of a Friday night and we were slammed. And so literally, I just kept working one handed with my left hand and kept my right hand in the air. And I bet everybody was like, look at badass, Kayla. I mean, whether there's a moment in your head that you're like, I have to do this because I have to do this. And you think it's a requirement. And then there's a secondary moment where you're like, I have to do this because I have a like because I have to make myself happy. I am pleased with my sacrifice. Oh, I'm so bad. Like, I actually knew a woman who was a line cook in a restaurant I worked at. And this is so awful. We made fish and chips there. And she, you know, you have to drag the fish through it. She dipped all five of her fingers into the hot oil. Oh, shit. Accidentally.

57:19And she just put a glove on. Kept working. I know. I had a there was someone that I worked with in Cleveland, Tennessee at a Cracker Barrel. And we called him My Little Pony. And it became a term of endearment. He had it because he had a ponytail. That was all there was to it. He was just a sweetheart. I was like, I went through everything in my head. I was like, colored hair, like, no, he was just honestly, we had a girl cook named Jeremy. Shout out, Jeremy, if they ever hear this. But yeah. And so basically, he stuck his whole hand in the fryer. And it was like on a dare or I don't even know if anyone dared him. I think he did. He was like, I'm doing it. Why, though? I don't know. I'm so upset right now. It's so crazy. But he pulled his hand back out and it was OK, surprisingly, like it was it was bad. But I don't know what I don't know how it happened. I don't know what I don't know why he was OK or why he was able to keep working. But no, first of all, no, don't do it.

58:19Don't do it. It's so weird. He's also a dad now. It's the thing. Oh, my God. I worked with a guy once who like ate like a couple of raw habaneros and then like touched his eyes. No. And they do it to themselves. Oh, do you guys dare me? Like, obviously, no, we don't dare. I don't want you to. Please don't do this. It's a terrible idea. In fact, no, I dare you not to. Begging you not to is what I'm saying. His name was Nicholas Warnack. I just wanted to call him out, too, because he was such a first name, last name. Yes. Yes. Because he's still someone who I think like I have just always thought about him. You never forget those people. Getting more. Get it. OK. Yeah. So the things that we do, I think, and kind of like the joy we take from the pain, it's so messed up and sadistic. But there's also a part of it that we're just also ingrained that that's where your value comes from. Yes. It's not just a personal joy of pain and suffering.

59:19It crosses over into every industry, right? When I was a teacher, every teacher would brag about, I've never had any days off. I've never had any. I've never called in for a sick day. And I used to think that's the way I need to be. And then I guess there's just this reality that there are people who take advantage and call off every time they get a chance. But I think the bigger issue or the more prevalent issue of the two is the numbers of us that are just like, how do we push through and how do we suffer through? And that's changed. Yeah. And I think that for me, well, I had a bit of a mental health crisis. And I don't mean that I had a break with reality or anything like that. But I was literally like, I can no longer sustain this person that I am right now. And one of those things was my absolute non-productivity. I was calling out once or twice every single week. And on those days, it wasn't like I was doing something. I was just horizontal the entire day. I wasn't hanging out with my dogs.

01:00:20I was just watching television. And I was like, this is not sustainable. I either have to go back to work or have to figure out what's going on that's making me not productive. And I learned so much about myself. And one of the things that I learned was that I was uncomfortable with the fact that I could take a day off. I was really uncomfortable taking care of myself. And I still am. I have to sit there and have a full conversation with myself where I'm like, I really need to go to the bathroom now. But we're so busy. And then I'll sit there and be like, Jennifer, you are an adult woman. You have to use the restroom, which is a thing that humans do. Go to the bathroom. That's a normal human thing. Go take care of this. Go. Because wetting yourself behind this bar is not going to make you a better bartender. No. No. Or giving yourself a bladder infection. Right. Which has happened to me. You know? Yes. That's what it is. This is what we do to ourselves. Yeah. I mean, we can also, I deeply love counseling. I totally believe in it. I think everyone should do it.

01:01:21I've been in a much healthier state than I've been in a long, long time. And I think with counseling, you get this chance to talk with an unbiased third-person party that is just going to be able to help you get some clarity to your own personal Because I've never been impressed by counselors or therapists. I've always just been like, man, they didn't say anything I don't know or that I haven't heard on an episode of Friends and Family or whatever, like Family Matters or Full House. Or something you read on an Instagram meme about yourself. Yeah. Cherish yourself. You're wonderful. Yeah. It's like, oh, I know. Thanks for telling me the thing I know. But when you get vulnerable and actually sit with this counselor, it's not the counselor doing the work. It's you doing the work. And it's about you. And it's another thing that's like, you have to allow that process. You have to allow the process to take care of yourself.

01:02:21I mean, it's so outlandish that it should be so hard to understand that we should take care of ourselves. Yeah. But it's like, no, I've been this other person for my entire life. I've tried to be a machine. So when I'm not being a machine, I'm failing. Yeah. So there's a I don't know if you've seen that movie. I'm trying to remember the name of it. I think it's give me one second to find it. You do the same thing that I do to open my phone. Like you only need it once. I just tap it. But I'm like, ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. I think it's thank you for calling. I haven't I think I know what you're talking about, but I haven't seen it. So there's this part in the movie where and I don't want to spoil it for people. But it's throughout the movie, the main it's called Sorry to Bother You, Sorry to Bother You. And it's an incredible film.

01:03:24It's it's taught as this telemarketer. These people are kind of like fighting for their rights to be able to take breaks and stuff like that. And they unionize and all that kind of stuff. And you think it's the movie's about one thing. It's very surrealist, very abstract. And there's this moment. And so I'm going to say spoilers. Everybody spoilers. OK, now is your time to pause. Come back in like five seconds. But there's this part where they expose that they're turning people into actual workhorses. Oh, my gosh, like they're genetically modifying them and they like they look like horrific horse monsters. Oh, no, no. A literal literal horse is unexpected. And so I have to say that there was a moment that I was watching it and I was like, all of a sudden, sick to my stomach of like, I don't know how many times I've referred to myself personally as a workhorse proudly. Yeah. And I watched this and I was like, oh, oh, my gosh.

01:04:28You guys, your value does not come from your work. No, I mean, you just need to do what makes you feel good about yourself. Yeah. I mean, obviously, I mean, for me, it is to still do good work. Yeah. But it's also to like explore, like being creative and to also take care of myself. Yeah. Which is new. This is brand new. Very new. I don't want to act like I'm, you know, so good at this because I'm so brand new. But it's so hard. I know. I can tell you right now, I'm new to it, too, even though I've been on this journey for six years of trying to recover myself. That's great. That was not what I needed to hear. I thought I would be absolutely awesome at it in six years because I've only been doing it for a year. It's still so challenging. Oh, no. But the beautiful thing about it is that what's challenging about it isn't that I don't want to do it. It's that I consistently am challenged by both our culture and by my desire to rewrite and rework the neural pathways in my mind.

01:05:31Oh, OK. And so you have to want it. And then the other side of it, too, is you unfortunately can't stop working. Like so in reality... Right. Right. That's capitalism, baby. Yep. Yeah. So like in reality, when you start with the idea that you're going to take care of yourself, it's kind of like if you're addicted to food, you can't stop eating food. I was literally just about to say that. Yeah. Literally just about to say exactly that. It's exactly the same issue. It's like, you know, if you're addicted to meth, it's OK. You don't have to take... Right. You don't need meth. You can stop and it's not going to kill your body or make it so that you cannot survive. And it doesn't mean it's easier, but you don't have to take meth to survive. And you do have to eat to survive, so to cut off any amount of food and try to work with the addiction that way is challenging. And being addicted to work, you can't stop working. Right. You do have to show up. I like that... So I just now, just now, I'm 34 years old.

01:06:33I struggle heavily with taking care of my own personal space. I'm good at taking care of my bar and my workspace, but if it's just for me, then I'm like I can live in garbage and I don't treat myself well. We're the exact same person. You should see my marriage bed. OK, like our bedroom on his side is immaculate, perfect. Everything has a place. And my side is just a pile of everything. It's just a pile of everything, literally starting from the foot of the bed on my half, going all the way around to the nightstand. I'm not comfortable with this. I don't like it. But who... But I can't touch it. If I can't make it perfect, then I can't do it. What? Why are we the same person right now? It's so crazy. If I can't do it right, then I'm like, well, I can't do this until I do this and I can't do that until I do this. I mean, at least three days off the plan. And you just freeze. Yeah. Yes. And so you freeze. Yes. And it's truly coming from a psychological issue and your body is responding to it.

01:07:36So you beat yourself up because now you think you're lazy, but you go into fight or flight. Right. Your body is frozen because you're feeling like you're in fight or flight. Right. Oh my gosh. Exactly. And so, yeah, you're just responding to the world around you. You spoke about that movie. Did you watch Severance on Apple Plus? I haven't seen it. No. Oh my gosh. Is it good? Yeah. Well, it kind of... Okay. So it's literally what the TV show is about. It's about a company that gave this surgery to their employees so that they would not remember work when they go home and they would not remember home when they got to work. And it would erase their memory when they were in the elevator going up to their office. And for the entire series, even though I saw that it was detrimental, especially to... They call them the innies and the outies. The innies are at work and the outies are at home. That it was detrimental to the innies because they would sometimes get a hint of what their outside life was like. And one of them had a son.

01:08:37I was like, would I do that? Yeah. Would this be good? Yeah. That'd be great. And that's the thing is we are a whole person all the time. We carry... But we actually do compartmentalize so much to be able to keep pushing forward. But you also said something about keeping yourself new challenges and stuff like that. And since becoming a craft cocktail bartender, this is the first time I've had a job where I will every couple of months find this new challenge or find this new thing that I need to know about and become an expert at that I can super focus on and be really interested in. And so it's not all this massive desire to keep myself away from work or not remembering work. Because we love the work we do. Right. Exactly. That's the other part is that I love work. Right. And so to cut myself off or to be like, you've taken too much work. Yeah. It's like, no, but I like it. But no, I want to do another competition.

01:09:38I also sometimes say that I really, really love being a bartender and sometimes I don't like bartending. Yeah. It's like really hard. I truly, there's days where there's often more bad days than good days, but there's also this joy that comes from the good days that is so sustaining. There's that high that you get when you're in service well and you realize that it's clicking and you're in the flow. For me, that's the best. That's the best. It's the only high I've ever had. Truly. Truly. Like when you're in, especially if you've got a bartender next to you that you can share the well with, because there's like this magical dance happening where you guys are like intersecting arms and like crossing over and like not hitting or bumping tins and you can just tell everybody's in the flow. Everybody's killing it. Yeah. It's so good. It's such a good moment. It's really good. And you're just connecting and like, everybody's doing their own thing, but at the same time achieving the same goal. When I was working at Henley, I was working and I was in that moment and we got to a point where the tickets stopped printing and I was like, and there was guests that were sitting right in front of service.

01:10:47Also, if I can just say this to any people that are potential guests that are listening, when you sit in front of service well, it makes me sweat. Like constant flop sweat just from every pore of my body. I'm like, now I have to talk to you. I'm like, I'm scared I'm going to mess up and you're going to see me drop something. It's awful. I was like, I got done and one of the people that was sitting there was like, you're really good. And I was like, oh yeah, that's it right there, baby. The power surging. When someone sees you and you're not even necessarily taking note of it, you're on show the whole time. Oh yeah. You have to be. You're usually the center of it. Exactly. So I shake my tins. I make loud noises. I'm clinging tins. You're putting on the show, so get loud, get people watching, get people invested in the bar. And so you're doing all this stuff and after eight years, you're doing it and you're not thinking about it. And so it's like when you take, for me, I can't scoop ice without clinging the ice scoop.

01:11:50Someone was like, clang, scoop. I always do that. I love it. When I separate my tins, I have three taps. So I hit the side, separate, and then pull it up, have the length of the liquid flow from the short tin to the tall tin, and then I'll tap it one, two, three, and it goes click, click, click. And then it pours up into the drink, and then I click one more time against the glass, so you get a little last click. And it feels so right. It's the ASMR of it all. It's so satisfying. Yeah. And when you're like, oh, that was a good shake, you can just tell, yes, that was everything And then the worst thing is when you click to try to get the tins apart and they don't, and then you feel like, no one look at me. This is the worst. Just take the tin and run away. No drinks anymore. We're closed. Got to go. Don't look at me. The shame. The other thing I wanted to say, though, going back to your shake, was I had guests talking about that last night.

01:12:51A lot of the people that I work with, this is really interesting, a lot of the people that I work with have these big show shakes, and I keep mine really close to the chest right here. I also learned this is just a side note that me and my bar manager realize that you cannot demonstrate your shake without your tins in your hand. It's very awkward. It's just real awkward. But I keep mine really close, and my shoulder's in and my elbow's in, because when I started bartending at a young age, this was a different time. I wasn't in the 1950s, but it wasn't 2022. People make the grossest comments about you as a woman and a big boobied woman as well. They say gross stuff, and so I learned to keep it tight, and now people are like, oh, he's a great bartender. I'm like, he's never had to worry about anybody telling him to shake his tits in his life. He's not better than me. He just shakes different than me.

01:13:52It's just different. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not ever going to be this bartender. Yeah. I don't know. That's just a side note. I don't know. Gosh. It's the little microaggressions that you can't even calculate, and sometimes they're macro too. Sometimes they're big aggressions, but you have an accumulation of them, and you do things to protect yourself, just like the fight or flight response of feeling like you've got to freeze. All of these are just things where your brain is like, we know what's happened to you in the past, and you didn't feel good about that, you didn't feel safe, so we're going to go ahead and give you this other alternative that will allow you to feel safer, and it's just a natural human response to what's happening. The shake that you develop, the desire to sit still, the desire to freeze, the desire to hide, all of those things, they're accumulative. We build them up, and then we own them eventually, and if you can own it and be like, oh, my body just did need to sit still for a moment, let me take ownership of that and not punish myself.

01:14:54I did need to just shake close to the chest and not change how I shake. That was just me protecting myself, and there's nothing wrong with it. Just anywhere near my ears, I know that that's my compromise, is to go a little bit near my face so that I can hear the ice breaking. Yeah. Those are the challenges that we deal with that a lot of people just have no clue that is going on. I'm interested to hear all of your other ASMR. Sorry. You got really animated when you were talking about it, and I was just like, wait, I need to hear all of the other sounds. I have so many different things that I like, like the stirring of the glasses, of course. I was dying to hear that specifically because there's not a lot of sound. Yeah. Preston's the one who made me learn how to do it with my pinky out because he's very classy. Yes. Pinkies out always. Yeah. I can stir with both hands, and I can actually stir up to four at once, however ... You're going to teach me that someday. I totally will. Totally. Thank you. But it's not practical. Four at once is not practical because my left hand isn't super efficient, but I can do three at once practically.

01:15:55In a shift, I will consistently have three stirred if I need it. Oh, man. I'm dying to know. Oh, my God. I got you, love. I got you. We'll do another ... Someday we'll talk about this on another episode so people at home can learn too. We'll do it with a video, of course, like a video demonstration. There's a little bit of an ASMR going because I can't quite get my left hand to do the motion like I do with my right. With my right hand, the goal when you're stirring, for everybody listening, is to keep it as smooth as possible. The difference between shaking and stirred is when you're shaking a drink, you're pumping air bubbles into it. When you're stirring a drink, you're keeping it nice and smooth so the drink will stay velvety and silky. You don't want it to be loud and ruckus because that means that you're probably creating an air bubble and you don't want any air bubbles. The quieter is the better, but there is a slight swirl of the metal against the glass so you can hear that and just a little bit of the ice going around.

01:16:57My left hand, in my right hand, I can get all my fingers to swirl perfectly. In my left hand, I kind of click it back and forth. This is a lot to kind of explain over without a visual, this is challenging, but everybody understanding what I'm saying. You try to hold the spoon center to the stirring glass. The back of the spoon stays along the outside of the glass every time you're stirring, so the spoon stays upright and kind of in the center, so it's almost angled out like creating a cone shape around the glass while the spoon is still center in the middle of the glass. That's how you create the most smooth stir. When you're doing that, the spoon will just ride the outside of the glass and press between the ice and the glass itself. It's very smooth. In Japanese cocktail stirring technique, you keep your fingers straight.

01:18:00If you get a good motion going, you're really using very little wrist action and mostly just your forearm itself, so you will be keeping yourself from getting any carpal tunnel. I don't understand. I know. The whole fingers being bent is very popular in American mixology. It's always like that, right? They keep it very rigid and very uniform and we're just like, oh, we're just going to fuck around here. I can stir it, so we're working it, it's doing it. It works. The innovation, if you're a bartender, so you're getting the job done. At the end of the day, if you're making money slinging drinks, you're a good bartender, period. Period. Yes. Seriously, I'm God. Yeah. If there's other techniques and cool things you learn and pick up along the way, cool. Those are just tools in your pocket to help you do the job better, so you don't have to do the Japanese stir. I can crack an egg with one hand. Yes. That's my favorite thing that will blow everybody's mind. Everybody's like, oh shit, look at her go. Oh my God, did you see her? I'm good at this, what you see me do right here.

01:19:00Exactly. Everything else is a tiny bit of a struggle. They don't need to see it. They don't need to see it. You choose when and where. Literally, watch me break an egg with one hand and then watch me just destroy some sort of communication. It should have been really easy. Yeah. Watch me do this and then look away. Immediately, immediately look away. Yeah, so I love, those little moments are things where you're like, I'm seeing that I'm getting this down and you do get joy from it. There's so much joy in bartending. There really is. It's so beautiful. But learning how to take care of yourself in the middle of valuing what you do is so hard. It's hard because you're like, I love this thing, but if I do too much of this thing, I'm tired and broken. Yeah, and also I've also noticed that if I say take two or three days off in a row, I come back and I'm just a little bit rusty and that feels like some sort of C. Yeah, C. The idea that when you said that you got into bartending, kind of like having something to prove, that was very true for me too.

01:20:06Okay. Very, very true for my personal story is that I had people who, when I first started, even before I got into craft bartending, I was serving and they were like, well, she's not going to make a good bartender. That was me as well. I was very much like Andy Sachs in the Double Words product and just like, well, I'm going to take a chance on you because you seem really earnest and then I was like, okay, well, now's my time. Got to do it, got to do it. I think because I was someone who, I'm ADHD, I'm neurodivergent, there's things that I struggle with and there's things that I do really well. I think that people make expectations and assumptions. I was also a young woman. I'm a young woman and if she's a young woman, she must be flighty. Because she's showing that she's silly, that must mean that she can't get the job done and be serious. Or if you're showing that you have emotions sometimes. That means that you're not capable of doing the job. I don't know what to do.

01:21:06Do you ever get those burning pricks on the back of your eyes like, I'm going to cry and you're just like ... The hot feeling in your throat and you can feel it welling up and you're like, nope, I can't cry. Not here. That's weakness. Yeah. 100%. Ice cold water or putting it on your wrist. That immediately stops it from happening. Yeah. But still, that's not weakness. It's human. It's not weakness. Not only is it not weakness, and I mean this with all sincerity, I hope that you guys are taking me seriously if you're listening to this, male or female, any person out here, if you are crying because you are understanding that there's something going on that makes you uncomfortable or hurts you, then you are aware of something that other people aren't seeing. If it makes you cry and if it brings tears to your eyes, it's because you have an intelligence that not everybody is experiencing or showing. I love that. That just blew my mind. It's an insight. It is absolutely a strength. The struggle for me is how do I in a world where people see crying or they see this as a weakness, how do I in this world demonstrate strength through the weakness, strength through what they see and perceive as a weakness?

01:22:24So a lot of times it means saving up your tears. And then having a good car cry. Yeah. Those are actually the best. A good car cry. A good car cry. It's so powerful. It really is. And you're like ... Yeah. Or watching a sad movie that allows you to cry. I had a counselor who was so awesome. She was the first time I went to a counseling. She gave me this piece of help and advice. I was in a session with her where she was doing ... We were doing EMDR, which y'all, this is too in-depth for this moment in time, but it's a really cool thing. I love the music. Yeah, it's very cool. It's super, super cool. And it's just a thing that basically allows your brain to kind of engage both your left and your right hemisphere while remembering something hard. Yeah. No, I don't think that that was too deep at all. I think that you pretty much nailed it with a very short sentence. Simple thing. And so I was doing this EMDR session and we were reprocessing a trauma from when I was a kid and it was really crappy, was not easy.

01:23:27And then I was going to have to work my shift later. And so we're kind of like coming to the finish of the session and literally my face is going numb. My lips starting to tighten, like it's seizing. And I'm letting her know, I'm like, okay, my lip is a little bit numb. She's like, how you feeling? And so she was like, okay, let's take a second longer. Like, how about you just feel out a little bit of like a little bit longer into like creating your safe place, remembering that you're safe, all that kind of stuff. And because she knew I had to work that day, she held out her hands and she said, I want you to feel where you're feeling this in your body. This is something you guys can try at home that you can try if you want, Jen. Where was I feeling? I was feeling my face, I felt it in my shoulders and I felt it across my chest. So she was like, gather it up. And this sounds so cheesy, you guys, but I'm telling you, it's so helpful. It's not like this new agey kind of thing. It's just literally like, where are you feeling this tension?

01:24:30And well, my face is numbing up, so I'm feeling in my face. So you kind of like gather up where you think you're feeling it. And she held out her hands and she said, I've got a box. She did not have a box. It was invisible. For the listeners at home, there was no box. There was no box. So she was like, you can set it in here. So I set it in the box. She closed it. She took it to her cabinet, put it in the cabinet. And she said, you're not not going to deal with this, but you can choose when you deal with it. And right now you don't feel safe and you've got to work. So you can choose. Right now is not the time to have to do this heavy processing. You can come back to it when you choose, when you feel safe. Right. I was super empowering. That's really it almost might be too high brow for me. I've never been able to do the like real visual, like the visualizing. Yeah, yeah. But I did have a therapist once encourage me to collect small tokens that made me feel it's pandas. OK, just for the record, it's always pandas.

01:25:31Anytime I say anything that makes me feel good. I mean, second to my dogs, it's always pandas. And so anything that has a panda on it, like even if it's like the thing that I keep my bar tools in or like a pen or, you know, something like that, I just put it in my apron. And if I'm starting to feel weird, like I'll just grab it. And like, it's my thing. Like it's nobody else. It's just a grounding. Exactly. It's like once you remember that you are not defined by a moment in time and the moment that you're feeling, it's highlighting every moment that you've kind of felt something similar to that. Yeah. So it builds up in that moment. Like, let's say if you ever had we're in a car accident, something like that, and in that car accident, you were feeling the fear of like being yelled at and the guy came and yelled at you and you felt blamed. And all of a sudden you had this guilt and all this kind of stuff. I thought that was going to be my worst nightmare, a car accident and then somebody yells at me and somebody yells at you. Oh, my God. And so then you take that to perform a speech. And then you have to, and all of a sudden you realize you have no clothes on.

01:26:35Yeah, oh my God, right. And then there's a play that you don't know the lines for. And so let's say a year later, you're talking to a guest and they use a word or phrase that sounds just like that guy that yelled at you. And all of a sudden you're in this moment where you don't know why, but you're like, I fully feel like I either need to run away or I need to fight this person and I don't know what I need to do. And you don't really make the connection yet, but you are feeling like the same feeling you were feeling that you were in that day. Right. So every time someone says a word or something that triggers you, it pulls up and triggers not a dirty word. It's not. It's not some millennial word. I'm sorry. Don't hate me. It's just the word. Yeah, no, I was really impressed you used it because I'm not afraid to use the word trigger. I use it because I'm like, it's the word. That's what it is. No, you're right. The same as like when people are like, I don't want to say sensitive because that no, sensitive is not an insult. Trigger is not an insult. Yeah. Trigger means like you pushed a button and something happened. Right. There's a consequence. You push that. Exactly like a trigger. So, yeah.

01:27:36And so, yeah, if you feel triggered, it's because it's lighting up a field of every time you felt that way. And that's that's why it kind of like will be bigger than it is. That was another reason why I was having a hard time working at that time in my life was because and this is so weird to say after I just went on that whole like speech about how, you know, bartending is joy and I feel great there. But what was happening was and I think that you can agree with me that like the last three years, people have been just a little bit more tense and a little bit more angry. And guests have just been a little bit more intense. And I was getting yelled at. I was getting sworn at. I was I was having like this pure, purely visual. Sometimes guests were I was like, this guy's going to be a problem, you know, shows up in like the I don't know, like a camo Trump hat or something. Well, here we go. This is the start of it. Yeah, I had a guest fully cough at me. Oh, oh, my God. Yeah, I had guests doing that last night and I kept being like, stop coughing, like turn your head or at least cover your what are you doing?

01:28:38Yeah, like, please use your intellect. But no, this guest actually angrily coughed at me, intentionally coughed at me because this was like really in the height of things. And yeah, yeah, it was just they were just angry. They were just very angry. And I'm super impressed by the like Broadway bartenders who don't do not put up with bullshit like that. But unfortunately, I don't work in an establishment where I can be like, get the fuck out. You know, I can't do that. And I don't really want to live in that way. Like, that's not a way that I want to be. I wish that there was mutual respect. But what we have been talking about throughout this series is how do we create space and how does the industry create space for us? So how do we as individuals create space for others in our sphere of influence? And then how does the industry create space and empowerment and respect for us? Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's actually got to be something that I'm working on now, because, like, at the time, I was really struggling with how often I was being triggered at work to the point where I got I would fill with dread when I had to go to a shift. And now the thing that I'm working on is trying.

01:29:49This sounds so absurd. And I'm sure that people say this about, like, you know, people of different races and stuff like that. But trying to even though I know on site who everyone is, just trying to have a human conversation and connection with them. Because, like, I mean, at the end of it, like we all bleed red, right? Like, so I mean, you have to try that or you're not you just keep getting triggered. Well, and I have talked about this a little bit, but I do believe that I only have one moment in time with this other person. And sometimes those moments are calling them out and saying, like, you can't talk to my teammate this way. Right. Or you can't treat my other guest this way. You're making my guest uncomfortable. And sometimes it's a moment like that. Sometimes it's also just like I was I had an older guest at the bar that was talking about how his daughter and son had been making fun of him and kind of cutting him out of their life. And it was and it was he was hurt by it.

01:30:49And then he explained a little bit more. And it was like over some very sexist and kind of evil thoughts that he was sharing with them. And so he was hurt. And so there was a moment where it was like, well, how do you want to are you interested in like and this is him opening this conversation up. Yeah. And I was like, are you interested in getting them back in your life? Is this something that you're looking for? And he was like, yeah, I miss them terribly. And I was like, do you why are they so angry? And he was like able to kind of talk out some of his stuff. And he was like, I was like, well, maybe it's worth it to like. And it's not like this was a counseling session. Right. I was just like, maybe it's worth it to to find out what's making them so angry. Why are they why does it upset them so much? Because he didn't understand. He was like, I don't understand why I'm upsetting them so much. And I don't really know the context of what he said or what he did. But he was just kind of like making it pretty clear that it was sexist. It's kind of wild that he was able to like verbalize what he was doing, but also didn't know why it would upset them.

01:31:50So exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think, you know, that's just a moment in time. And he's got, you know, a lot of people say no religion, no politics at the bar. I don't believe it happens 100 percent of the time. You can't. Yeah. Because not only is the bar one of the best spaces because you've got the social lubricant of a little drink, but you've also got an opportunity for people of many different backgrounds to actually openly share. It's not always safe. It doesn't always turn out so good. Right. But I do think it's a better opportunity for us to actually interchange with others and because we otherwise we're just in an echo chamber. Well, I mean, I agree. When I'm talking about community, like just having a connection with somebody on a human level, I'm talking about like making conversations outside of those things that I know that we differ on, because I know that I I do not feel safe enough to engage with certain people when it comes to religion and politics, because it's become a very personal thing. Yeah. It's not it's not, you know, 92 when, you know, it was like, yeah, who ran?

01:32:55I don't even remember who ran against the Clintons. But like now it's like it's you it's like identity politics, like who you are is like what this is or what this is. It's so binary. It really reached such a state of like a binary world that I don't think it's right. I don't think it makes sense. But this binary that we've put ourselves into is like, if you forget that this other person also drinks water to live, also has to sleep, take naps. We only see them as this one thing. And like, just as I want them to see me as a human being, I want to be able to see them as a human being, not just this terrifying, like could possibly do something mean thing. And I get I get tired of like, I appreciate that you shared to that. Like, so because this is auditory and you guys aren't seeing Jen, but she is a wonderful person of color, a wonderful black woman. And I speak like a Caucasian. It's really OK if you don't know.

01:33:58It's gotten me a lot of places. There's no such thing. There's no such thing. You speak just like you. There's no such thing as speaking Caucasian. I know exactly what that is. I know what I mean. I totally know what you're talking about. When I'm like, go to a job interview and I'll be like, I'm Jennifer. And they'll be like, you're Jennifer. Oh, cool, cool, cool. Yeah. Like we talked about on Preston's episode, the code switching and the kind of world that we live in. Preston, I had that like that's like the connection that I had to him was that he and I were the only people in the front of the house that were black. Yeah. And like, I mean, not to continue to, you know, he's a bar liberty. So I feel like a lot of people talk about him. Yeah. But like we called each other black person. That was what we would call each other. So that's actually so endearing. Because you're like, I see you like, hey, black person. And then we would do this like dance from the 90s. I love it. Oh, my gosh. You guys are too adorable. I love him so much. Yeah. I think that like the reality is, is that when we go into our daily life, there are certain challenges that some people have and certain challenges that you don't have. Right.

01:35:00It doesn't mean you don't have other challenges, but it does mean that you aren't ever going. I'm never going to experience as a white woman what you've experienced as a black woman going into the bar world. It doesn't mean it hasn't been hard for me. Right. But it does mean that I'm I'm never going to have this insight and the frustration and the pain that you've dealt with. I really appreciate how delicately you just explained privilege. Yeah, that's that word. Yeah. See, I said it, but by definition, that is privilege. Yeah. Yeah, very, very sorry. I thought it's a leaving checklist. OK, sorry. I thought it like for some reason, I'm so sorry that I got super distracted here, but I was like, am I not allowed to take photos because I took like four. You can take all the pictures. That is a checklist that says. And so if you guys come on to the show, you need to take pictures. You need to sign the door. And we also he has to take home his schedule, but we don't have to do that. That's for him schedule. Or does that say swag? Oh, it does say swag, swag.

01:36:01I read I've never been more excited. I think this is the closest I'm going to be to Hillary Duff. This is the swag. You got to take it. You got to get swaggy. Beyonce said in her new album that we need to get swaggy. So I'm absolutely living up to that. Absolutely. 100 percent. Well, I want to we can kind of like get to a little bit of a closing part. Sure. I have so loved talking to you. I could talk to you all day. This has been so much fun. And we only got into like some of the fun stuff. Yeah, I just want to keep it's fun that like the fun stuff for us was just sort of like the kind of drudgy, like hard. Well, this is always the fun conversation. I love talking about my internal fear. Wait, so much fun. I have a fear that nothing is real. Have you ever seen like a movie or TV show where like somebody will show up to their home and there's a different person there? Yeah. And then they have to like figure out who they are. What is actually happening to like shake? Just considering what would it would be like if that that's my that's my worst fear. That would be crazy.

01:37:04That would be insane. But I also I also understand it like there are times this is so silly, like being a quirky, silly, wonderful person is something that like people will again see kind of like as a weakness if they want to. Yeah. And so like I've got so many quirks, like I am disgusted by slugs. I don't like things coming out of things. I don't like things coming out of things. Can I just really quickly? Your entire job is about things coming out of things. It's different. It's different. It's it's specifically holes. I don't like it. I don't like it. It's called up. What is it called? I always forget what it's called. Is it the trick to phobia? Yes. OK, so like you don't like a lotus pod. I don't like that. No. Yeah. No, thank you. There was a whole period of time where there were there were people sharing pictures of like a lotus pod inside. Open it. Yeah. Oh, no, I don't like it. You know, those are gross. I don't want it. I like I don't have I know some people who have it worse, like bad enough that Michael B. Jordan on Black Panther. He had those like scars that he did himself for every person he had killed.

01:38:09Yeah, that's it. And for some people that really that that doesn't get me. That's not I don't like holes with things coming out of holes. So so like what, for example, I really hate talking about it. OK, so this is how I have a hard time even saying it without getting disgusted. Like this, this is this bad for me. I'm sorry that it's making me laugh. It is funny. I recognize the humor of it. That's the thing is like the same with like like loving work and hating work and dealing with addiction and not dealing with addiction and dealing with all these things. I can laugh at every bit of this. Life is silly and funny. Wait, I need to know. OK, so just I don't like there's a frog that has it has has babies. Oh, it has the babies and the babies come out of its back. And it's so awful. That is a completely normal thing. No, it's not. OK, thank you. It's there's like that's awful.

01:39:10One time I was at a baseball game and my brother, like, stepped on a spider and babies came off of it and they were small. They were so small. It looked like hair. Oh, that's awful. See, but it's the whole part that I like. I just can't. I get really upset. Like, I feel angry right now. I feel really badly for like bringing this on. Don't feel that because I think. But now I need to know about the frog. You go look at it. I won't pull it up. I will not do that. I will not make you put that into your search history. Awful. But yeah, that's that. The thing is, is that the more like you are just a human being and just silly and just yourself. And I'm I am the beverage director at my company. Like, that's my job. And it's cool. It's awesome. I love it. And I'm grateful and I worked hard and there's ups and downs to it for sure. But I'm also just a silly, goofy person that loves others and loves people as hard as I can. You're also a Nashville bar celebrity. I you don't understand that this is something like a Bravo celebrity that is another one of my life goals. I want to be a Nashville bar celebrity.

01:40:12We're like, hey, you know, Jen. Oh, yeah, I've never worked it, but I know who she is. Like, I would love that. Oh, it's not Jen Jackson anymore. You think? Yeah, Jen Arnold. Yeah. Anyway, you like you can do a theme song with Hey, Arnold. I don't even I think I'm too old for now. No, you're not. You're you're like me. I think I'm 10 years older than you. OK, yeah, it was a cartoon in like the 90s. Yeah. Hey, Arnold. And a football shaped head. Yeah, I've seen the guy. OK, OK. As long as you know of it. I don't know anything. Maybe maybe we'll ask John and if it's something. John is her husband's name. Yeah. And so maybe we can get him into it. When you said the thing about stirred cocktails being silky, I realized where he'd gotten that phrase from. He does adopt a lot of your language. That makes me happy. Yeah, yeah. He is. So John actually works with me, too. That's amazing. Yeah, that's what he really likes. Oh, I try. Yeah, I do.

01:41:12I've been working everywhere else lately, so I've been kind of bouncing around. So I haven't been at Okanoku as often here in Nashville. So if you've come to one of our bars looking for me, I'm sorry if you didn't find me. But yeah, I I want to hear from you as we wrap up. I've got two questions for you that I've asked everybody so far. This is exciting. OK. So one thing I want to know from you is what are what is one thing that bartenders can do better? And then what is one thing that the industry can do better to you? OK. So something that bartenders can do better is ask for help. And it could be like the big broad, like we've been talking about. But also, I think that all bartenders tend to get blinders on, especially when they're working, especially when they're busy. Nobody wants to ask for help. Yeah. It takes such courage to be like, can you come grab some of these tickets, please? But we all have to find that courage because we'll all be better bartenders if we can just ask for help. Or it's a skill set. Or like a guest will ask a question and then being like, actually, I don't know anything about that kind of cocktail.

01:42:14Let me see. Do you find out for you? Yeah, I've always wanted to do this. I've always heard this on podcasts like, hey, do you know what? Yeah, I need a I need a fact checker. Yeah. They'll just like in podcasts, they just have a fact checker nearby. Yeah. Oh, my God. I need a fact checker in my life to be like, hey, I mean, Google's decent, but it's not fast enough. And it looks like you're texting somebody. Exactly. It's like, how do you make a Sazerac? And you're like, hang on, let me text my let me. I promise I'm not looking at the recipe. I'm just texting someone for something really important right now. Yeah. So that's and we all do that, by the way. Google cocktails, anybody who's wondering, there's no way any of us could know every cocktail now, especially the classics, even though a lot of people purport to they don't. You get as close as you can and then and then you keep researching. But I try to bring my bar Bible with me, which is just like my own Moleskine journal. Small. And it can fit in like an apron. Yeah. I'm trying to get myself to do that. Get it, girl. I have one. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. I'm telling you, like not only the memory of like the muscle memory of like having written it down, seeing it in writing, looking it up yourself.

01:43:21And then the crinkled pages from the bidders. It just feels so nice. It's like it's old timey. It feels like they probably did it in the 1800s. They did. Absolutely. They did. And you pull it out. And then the guest is looking and is like, oh, is that your bar Bible? There's something so magical about that and mysterious. It's like, yeah, this notebook. Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's what I think all bartenders could do. Good for you. And then what can the industry do for us? And I actually mean you, me, me. Like you as an individual and who you are. Girl, you are. No, I'm not. I don't. You said I I think I think you are. I have loved working with you in different like I feel like it's I've never gotten to work side by side with you. I've been as much as I like pushed for that, like I feel like I was aggressively trying to make that relationship happen for quite some time. It is a relationship, whether you like it or not. Yeah. Like whether or not we're in the same bar. This relationship is happening. This is very real. Yeah. We are going to learn how to do a stir for it at a time.

01:44:23I'm so excited. So excited. No, I don't know. I have anything. I don't know. What can the industry do for Jen? Yeah. Oh, I mean, I don't know. See, this is all the thing is that everything is just internal and it's all me. I would be like, just accept me and love me. But that's just me. Hey, that is it. You think you and love you? Yeah. I think that's one thing that the industry could do really a lot better. Me personally, both you personally and what that means. Yeah. So like, what do we learn when an industry needs to improve for one person? We learn something every time because your struggles and what you're going through and the things that you've experienced are not singular. You're not a singularity. Right. Your experiences are something that are human and that a lot of people go through. And it may look different for each person. But I think what we learn from when the industry changes and does something better for one individual, it's like, OK, you just touched 80,000 people and not didn't even know it. I feel like I mean, again, this is me.

01:45:25This isn't how I think this isn't how I think everybody feels. But I feel like I was, oh, God, this is a disgusting thing to say. I was uniquely sort of. I profited from the from the pandemic. Yeah, I think that a lot of people left positions that they were never going to leave. And that gave me the opportunity to take those positions and learning things that I never would have learned if that hadn't happened. And it makes me feel gross. But it also makes me feel like, oh, well, if the pandemic hadn't happened, like, where would I even be right now? Yeah, that's why I'm like, that's why I always still feel like I'm proving myself. And so that's why I'm like, just love me. Like, what's that Gray's Anatomy? Love me. Yeah, choose me. I think that we got to we got to do better. Our industry has to do better. Recognizing where people are at when we come to meet them. Yeah. If you hire someone, you hired that whole person. Right. You hired that whole person. It is now on me as a trainer, as a someone, as someone who does hirings and firings.

01:46:28It is on me. It is my responsibility to make sure I see who you are, give you the best tools I can. And then if I realize that my tools for you aren't what you need with no harm, no foul, say, I got to try to help you get to another spot because this might not be it. Yeah. And if I can and if I meet someone where they're at, I've met a lot of people with addiction issues. I've met a lot of people that are trying to up their game, but then maybe just aren't cut out for bartending. Bartending is not was what was meant for them. It's not a bad thing. Yeah. If bartending is not for you, that's not an insult. Bartending is not for everybody. Yeah. It doesn't mean you're less than. So that's so true as often as possible. We have to stop looking at like taking people out of the bar as a demotion. People will straight up say, oh, they demoted that person to serve. And it's like, no, bro, like servers work really hard. Like, yeah, you know, it's it's still working. It's still. Yeah. I mean, like you're still there's still a challenge to that job. Right. And I think with and even if it's not in the restaurant industry, when you start to realize that, like when people fail at bartending, they're so despondent because a lot of times bartending wasn't their first pick.

01:47:37We've talked about that in every episode so far. Yeah, it was mine. That's amazing. Well, no, I mean, I wanted to be an actor, but I more. When you grow up thinking what you want to be when you grow up, you were thinking actor bartender. Same level. Yeah. Yeah. And when you don't see the other thing happen, sometimes people are like, well, I failed. And so then every time someone criticizes you, it's not a criticism of like to help you improve. It's a criticism on your worth because you already failed in the first thing. So now you're like, oh, I'm not, I'm not doing this way. I want to. So, uh, we had one of the best compliments I've ever heard about. One of our bars is at oak steak house. We had a bartender, um, Victoria, she just started. She's pretty new with us. She said to our head bartender there that, um, she felt safe to make mistakes. And that was just the huge, the best compliment I've ever heard about any bar. I never felt safe making a mistake. Right. If somebody's watching. Yeah. I was like, I'm going to need to dump this out and try again. Sorry.

01:48:40And that's, it's, I want everybody to feel safe. Cause if you don't feel safe to make mistakes, you won't come to me when you do make another mistake and I can't help you get further. Right. And so if we can create safety, then people aren't defensive. If it's, if you're safe to get called out and you know that it's okay, then I can call you out and you're not going to feel beat up. You're just going to be like, okay, I can up my game. I can keep going. Yeah. Oh gosh. Yeah. Making, making your staff feel safe is so important. Maybe that too. Yeah. As far as, so choose me, love me, love you. Make me feel safe. Make you feel safe. I think that would be beautiful if our industry could do that. I'd be so happy. Someday. Hopefully we've seen so many industries change in the last couple of years. So I don't see why not. Even our industry right now is in the middle of a large change. We see what's happening and it's not for the worst. I know a lot of corporations and businesses are scared by these changes. Boomers. Yeah. They're scared because you see these changes happening and it's new and it's different and you don't know how to operate differently. I promise.

01:49:41I promise to everyone who is a capitalist, you will make more money if your people are happy. If your staff is happy. Oh my God. I say that all the time. It's all the same. You need to keep people safe physically and well, mental health is physical health. It is. So a hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. I think if you can make people feel safe, then you will see the money come in and they will do better at their job. They will love their job. They'll be excited to come in rather than being afraid. Well, I just cannot get over how great this has been. Thank you for sharing time with me. Thank you for inviting me. This is so much fun. Thank you. Your story is so valuable. Keep doing what you're doing. Keep doing what you're doing, mama. You're killing it. Thank you. I'm, I'm really proud of you. I can't wait to come see you. Will you tell everybody your bar one more time? Yeah, it's Jersey and Dar. It's in the former Oak bar in the Hermitage hotel. It's in the basement. I love that. Yeah. I cannot wait to come sit with you and get a drink with you. It's yeah. Well, don't do it now. Actually. Okay. So many people coming from Hamilton that it's just waves and waves of people literally. Yeah.

01:50:43I love that every bartender calls like these human waves. We all refer to them as waves. I've never seen it. It's just waves of people. Yeah. He's like, you see it and you're like, how am I going to do that? But you keep pushing. You keep pushing. That is so cool. Cause at the end of a shift you're like in it, you're like, Oh my gosh, how is this happening? How do I do? What do I do at the end of it? You're like, I did that. I did it. Everybody left happy. I took care of people. I've been trying to mantra like, because I say, I can't, we can't do this in my head. So often I've been trying to switch that to being like, yes, you can't, you can't, we can do this. Just remember all the times you've done it before. Well, you have to other, like what happens if you stop? You can't, you can't. This is the reality. Don't be scared if you're bartending and you're in stressful and they're like getting waves of people coming at you. Take care of the person in front of you. Take care of the first three tickets in front of you and keep pushing. There will be a time when it goes, I always say it's going to be 30 crappy minutes when you hear that crappy. Well, you said I was allowed to swear loud.

01:51:44It's just that I am still raised in a way that like swearing does still make me feel uncomfortable when I do it. I do swear and I, I support it. I had a whole conversation with my mom about it because she's going to listen to this. And I was like, I love you. I don't believe swearing is a sin. Like I just, I don't. And I, I respect you though. And so I want to be careful. I do think it can be bad to like swear in front of people that it's harmful too. So I'm going to choose my words. But anyway, anyway, anyway. Yeah. So I really want you, everyone to listen and know that as a bartender, just, it's going to be 30 minutes that are bad and you keep pushing. Go to the next thing. It, at the end of it, you're going to be like, I did that. Yeah, we did that. You guys, it's just, you just make another drink and then you make the next drink and then you keep going. So I love it like six at the same time. Yeah. While talking to someone about the weather and their child. Now, what are you making right now? What's good? That looks good.

01:52:47I'm like, well, I'm making five cocktails right now. Can I not, can we not? I do love it though. Cause like when I'm, when I'm like telling them, like they're thinking, I'm going to, when they ask, what are you making? They think I'm about to say like one cocktail and I'll have three tens lined up, two drinks in each. And then another, your fours. Exactly. Well, I'm actually making four cocktails right now. And one of them is on the menu and three of them, I'm just making up for this individual. Oh my gosh. I don't know that I would have the brain capacity for that at this moment, but it's fun. And I don't always have the brain capacity, but somehow it happens. I just wow people with, um, old, very old recipes and to be like, Oh, that's what you got to do. Like whiskey. Well, I've created this. Have you ever heard of a VU career? I do love that because we got to bring back the classics. I'm glad you're doing that. Yeah, I am. Yeah. Okay. Well I love you so much. Let's go to classes again. Cheers. My friend. Cheers to you. Cheers to everybody listening. I hope you had a good time and go make that money if you're working tonight.

01:53:52Cheers.