The Gospel of Cocktail Podcast with Kala Ellis

00:00Welcome to the Gospel of Cocktail podcast. Now, here's your host, Kayla Ellis. Hello, everybody. Welcome. Welcome. This is the Gospel of Cocktail podcast. It is so good to have you guys. I am Kayla Ellis. I am the Beverage Director for Indigo Road, specifically here in Nashville. You can find me at Oak Steakhouse and Okoo. I am so grateful Nashville Restaurant Radio is putting me onto this. I had a great time with Brandon Styll, who's here with me now. Hello. Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me. I am so excited about having you on To Do This Limited. It's six episodes. Six episodes. Everybody's doing pop-ups. Why can't we? I love it. I'm so excited. Yeah, you've heard of the pop-up bar. This is the pop-up podcast. The pop-up podcast. So what are you going to be doing on this podcast?

01:03I'm thrilled. We're going to be talking to bartenders, getting to know what's going on behind the scenes, getting a real feel for the industry. We'll give you tips and tricks. You'll be able to hear a lot about spirits, cocktails. That's my specialty, but we'll talk about wine. We'll talk to a variety of different bartenders about what they're seeing in the scene, what's going on right now. I love it. I'm so excited to hear your perspective when you were on our show. If you want to hear more about Kayla, you can go back and listen to Kayla's interview on Nashville Restaurant Radio. But we just had so much fun and I could tell your passion for the industry, your passion for bartenders, your passion for guests, and just the idea of making a really good cocktail. I thought, man, I would love to hear you interact with other people in the industry doing that. You were like, yeah, let's do it. I'm thrilled. Here we are. This is the first episode. Who are we talking to today? Today we are talking to one of my favorite people in the world, Robert Chambers. He is the sommelier of Oak Steakhouse and he has a really wonderful, beautiful perspective on wine. I'm excited to have him. He's really insightful.

02:12I am really excited to hear this interview, but I do want to say we've got the greatest sponsor. We just interviewed Jeff Hopmayer, who is the CEO of the Brindiamo Group. Amazing. He's a bourbon broker. He's the guy behind so many bourbons out there. They are going to sponsor your pop-up. What they've done is they're going to give all of your guests some special bourbon for coming in. So sweet. One of the things that's really cool is that they are hosting a video series on YouTube. It's of the Brindiamo Group and it's the business of bourbon. It's 30 plus videos. They've only released four of them so far. Incredible. If you go right now to YouTube and look up the Brindiamo Group, the business of bourbon, Jeff Hopmayer hosts these. They're like five to 15 minutes long and it will go in depth into all the behind the scenes bourbon information. If you love bourbon, this is something you definitely got to check out. Go to LinkedIn and follow Jeff Hopmayer or go to LinkedIn and follow Brindiamo Group where they're posting every single time that they post a new video or just go follow them on YouTube and you get the notification immediately. That's amazing. Yeah, what they're doing for bourbon and putting that message out there, it's going to be super helpful if you're in the industry and even if you're not. Yeah, absolutely. So, hey, I don't know what I'm doing here. This is your show.

03:32Why don't you take it away? All right, get out of here. All right. All right, guys, he's out of here. He's gone. We've got the keys to the kingdom. Let's get into this. Welcome Robert Chambers. All right, you guys, Robert Chambers is one of my favorite people in the whole world. So, I work with Robert Chambers for about three years and he's our head. He's the sommelier at Oak Steakhouse. And so, I'm going to have you tell us your story in just a second. But first, I'm going to get into our little cocktail. So, if you guys want to join in and have a cocktail with us, right now we're drinking a little combination of Dolan's Vermouth. It's a Blanc Vermouth that we're using and we're mixing it with Grinnell Rosé. So, since Robert is the consummate expert in wine, I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about this wine that we're drinking mixed with our Vermouth. Sure. So, Louis de Grinnell is a winery in the Loire Valley, in Western Loire, in France. The grapes from that region are going to be Chinon Blanc for white and Cap Franque for red. So, this is a sparkling rosé of Cap Franque. And they're making it in Methode Champenoise or Methode Traditionale, which means that they're fermenting in stainless and then they're doing a second fermentation in the bottle to create the bubbles.

05:10I love that. I love the concept of that because I'm not a wine expert by any means. I can sell you wine. I know about wine. But my expertise is in spirits. I do have my Sake certification. And in Sake, they do that second round of fermentation as well. I think it creates a really unique flavor and a very different type of bubble compared to like CO2. Absolutely. Yeah. And for those that don't know, CO2 production would be more in like Prosecco. Exactly. Yeah. And Cava as well? Is that correct? No, Cava traditionally is made in Methode Champenoise. More in like the champagne style. Okay. Well, that's so cool because I mean, the effervescence and that slight funk on the bubble is so cool. Yeah. So, you know, they're adding that extra dosage of sugar and yeast to create the fermentation process in the bottle. And you get a lot of that kind of briochey. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That little bit of a finish to it. Well, do you mind to reach across this table and clink glasses with me? Absolutely.

06:17To me, the clinking of glasses is like the magic of our industry. Like, there's something about that. And I talked about it with Brandon Styll on my episode with him. And he calls it the next, it's like the sixth sense. Like you, not even the sixth sense, the fifth sense. Because we see cocktails, we taste them, you smell them. This is a chance for you to hear that experience. Wow. I never thought about that. Right? I mean, just opening a bottle to the, and the bubbles fizzing in a champagne, like that's, it's all part of that experience. It's queuing your mind for an experience. Because I love you so much, I know a lot of your stories. So I'm excited for you to get to share this story with everybody. I would love for you, number one, if you don't mind, indulge us with how you came into this industry. And then I want after that, that insight from how you got into this industry, I want you to share, jump right into your take on wine. Because you guys, I love your take on wine. I think that for me, wine was always kind of snooty and pretentious.

07:24It was something that I, I jumped to spirits because of that. And that was something I had a hard time with, with wine. A lot of people feel that way. It's a shame. It's sad. So I really want it. So go jump into your story. And yeah, I want to, I want to hear all about it. Yeah. I think my story is probably all too common. A little funny. So I guess I was about 15 or 16. And my sister was working at a deli at the time. Sisters are good for this. Yeah. I got my sister into the industry. They pull you in. And so I would go and hang out up there. Because it was an older group of folks and I was trying to get in trouble and they were all about it. And the guy that was working that day had taken some illicit substances and he had a bit of an accident. Okay. And he was like, Hey man, I really have to go home. Is there any way that you can take over for like 45 minutes to an hour?

08:27And I was like, absolutely not. Like I've never done this before. Like I don't know how to do it. Yeah. Are you kidding me? I'm a kid and I'm scared out of my mind. Yeah. And he's like, all right, well I'm leaving right now. There are cards in the back to tell you how to do everything. I'll see you in an hour. And so just, just kind of left me and being a kid, I was too scared to just like walk out. I was like, somebody has to do this. And so I got back there and later on, they offered me a job and I ended up working for that company for the better part of 10 years. Fast forward to 2014. I'd gone through kind of a rough time. I owned a coffee shop in that close down and my girlfriend at the time, we decided to part ways. And so I had a day off from the restaurant and I was on my second bottle of wine. It was like Tuesday at two o'clock and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like, I wonder if I can get paid for this. I wonder if I can get paid to drink and to know a little bit, to be knowledgeable about whatever it was that I was drinking. So I Googled it and I found a school in New York and immediately applied. And a month and a half later, I had sold everything I owned and I landed in New York City and started my journey into the beverage side, the wine side of the industry.

10:01I love that because it tells me the story of hunger, the story of like, okay, I can get this far. What if I do this? How do I get to that next step? For sure. And I think that there's, we don't see a ton of that these days, at least not with like, you know, the teams that I work with show that hunger, but there's a lot of people who maybe don't feel like they can make that next step or even assume that that step is available to them. Well, I think a lot of it is not knowing that it's there, that it's possible, you know, especially when you talk about wine or spirits beyond slinging drinks. Not that that is a bad thing at all, but when you talk about mixology or being an ambassador for a spirits company, most people don't know that those positions actually exist. Yeah, yeah. We don't know what's available to us. For sure. Yeah. And I think too, the extra valuable thing, the context for jumping into something that seems higher than us, that seems like for a lot of people unattainable, you came from a background that is most of our backgrounds. It's not highfalutin, it's not other than.

11:21Yeah. No, I got my start in a deli and then from there, I ended up taking over as a managing partner for Five Little Caesars at one point. Yeah, okay. I didn't know this, Robert. Yeah. I owned a coffee shop and, you know, there was a transitionary period in my life and I thought if I were going to move, if I were going to get out, that was the time and it just changed into something else. I didn't know what a sommelier was. I didn't know that you could get paid to do this. It legitimately came out of like a drunk, I wonder if this can happen, and a Google search. Thank God for that Google search. Absolutely. It changed my life. That's incredible. For sure. I think the take you have on wine and your rootedness to everyday life, you know, you're the common man, we're all the common man here. I want to hear why wine is not highfalutin.

12:29I got you. Tell me. So, while I was in school, and I studied under 12 master psalms at a fairly prestigious school at the time, but I came across this guy named Richard Betts who's a master psalm. He also makes spirits. He makes tequila. Comos is his brand. It's really wonderful stuff. But I came across him because he made a scratch and sniff wine book. And it's not, you know, completely accurate. You know, you'll smell cherries or baking spice and it's not like, it's not exactly how you would smell it when you have a glass of wine in front of you, but it's close. And he was kind of criticized for making that book. People were, you know, kind of wondering like, you know, you're dumbing this down and, you know, this isn't exact, so what's the point? Yeah. Who is this for? For sure. And his response was that he wanted it to be more accessible to people, that it wasn't perfect, but it was a way to make it more approachable for the layman.

13:43And in that, in his response, he said one of my favorite phrases and it's, wine isn't a luxury. It's a grocery. I'm gonna need you to repeat that, sir. Wine is not a luxury. It's a grocery. That's beautiful. For sure. And, you know, in America, we don't really understand, but if you go to Europe, you'll walk into a restaurant and ask for wine and they'll put down a $13 carafe of wine and it's some of the best wine you've ever had in your life. You know, whether that's the atmosphere, the traveling and being in a new place, or it's just the quality of the wine, I mean, it's kind of an amazing thing. It's not something that is super pretentious. It's an everyday good for people there. Well, like, so Robert just recently taught a wine class for our group at Oku and Oaks Take House.

14:50That was a lot of fun. It was amazing. We learned so, so much. It was supposed to be two hours. We went for four. We went for four hours. Well, we happened to have the time because we were closed that night too. So we don't always get that luxury, but oh my gosh. And you said something, you know, tying in what you just said, the idea that this is something that you can have every day. You were talking about how in Italy there are places you can go, or France, there are places you go and communities that you can drink in where they will place a bottle or glass in front of you and it'll be the best thing you've ever tasted, but it's not on a shelf. It's not for market. It's not for market. You have winemakers who are making their wine in these little communes and they're selling it directly to the restaurant or whatever. You're never going to find it on a shelf. You know, they're doing it for, you know, the love of doing it and for their livelihood on a smaller scale, you know, they're not as wrapped up in like fame and prestige. It's kind of like, you know, this is our way of life. This is the way that we've been doing it. My father did it. His father did it.

16:02They make wine because that's what they do. That's what you do. I think if we have more communities that could dig into that concept, or we create community in any place we go. So bartender community is something I think one of the things that Robert and I have talked about a lot before is this idea that we have to have each other's back. Bartenders are some of the coolest people in the world to me. It's like this combination of front of house and back of house all in one. And if you guys are not in the industry, you may not realize there is a major discrepancy between front of house and back of house. It's huge. Yeah, the equity, whether it's like, you know, the quality of the wine, the quality of the wine, the quality of the wine, the quality of the wine, it's huge. Yeah, the equity, whether it's the hours that you work or the pay that you get per hour, the equity is just not there. It's something that is super unfortunate. And I'd love to see that change. Absolutely. But when you see bartenders having each other's back, there's a special kind of like magic. There's like a dance that goes on. And Robert's one of the best bartenders. You're one of the best bartenders I know. Thank you. I've definitely been slammed in a shift before and had Robert hop behind the bar with me. Whenever you've done that, you've made a huge difference in the flow of the shift, our ability to keep up our ability to, you know, make sure that we're effectively executing the plan. I've been really fortunate in my career that I've been able to work pretty much every position that you can work in a restaurant. I've been a dishwasher. I've been a prep cook. I've been a line cook, a bartender, a server, and now, you know, a Psalm and wine buyer. And so it allows me to kind of jump in in those situations when it's a bit overwhelming, which I absolutely love. I mean, tell me what you

18:09think of the bartenders you've worked with in the past. I know some of them. For sure. How have they made a difference in your life? I've worked with a lot of really good folks. I think two really I have to give a nod to. One is Jamie Hughes. For my first Indigo Road restaurant back in South Carolina, I was working for a distribution center at the time selling wine to restaurants. And she was like, Hey, I'm short on bartenders. I really need some help. You can sell the product. I need somebody that can do that. I need somebody that can help. I was like, I don't know the first thing about bartending. And she was like, you can sell. I can teach you the rest. Exactly. So she brought me on and I studied with her for a while. And then when I moved to Nashville, I got to work with the wonderful Sarah Turbett, who is my bar mentor. And she's been on the show before with Brandon. Absolutely amazing. And if you don't know Sarah Turbett, she is one of the best in the country. 100%. She's, you know, Patron Perfectionist. And she does all the Brown Ford stuff. And she is absolutely lovely. She knows her stuff. There's no one or I say not many people that I know that knows much about whiskey or spirits in general is her. She is, you know, the consummate professional. She knows her stuff. And I'm really glad that I got to learn from her. One of the things too that I, yeah, I mean, she's just incredible. But one of those things that I love about working with you and something that we've talked about before is making space. You know, if equity is not happening, equity is not there in the kitchen passing, like it's just not there. Sure. I'm not saying servers or bartenders should make any less money, but the equity is just not there. And making space, I think now

20:12that you're in the role that you're in, and now that I'm in the role I'm in, I have a little more power. I have a little more clout. I have a little more ability to speak up and create safety for my teammates. You've shared a story with a story with me before about Sarah. Please jump in. I just think. Yeah, I agree with you. In our positions now, we definitely have more of an obligation to be good and to uphold the people around us. Yeah. So I was working behind the bar with Sarah Turbot and I had a gentleman come in and he was asking about whiskey. Yeah, we have a fairly good list. Yeah, we have a really good list, a fairly expansive list of whiskies. Yeah. And he was like, Hey, you know, like, tell me about this and tell me about this. And I was like, look, I can, I can tell you about this bottle, but if you want to know whiskey, you need to speak to her. And you've said this before that every time, well, at least frequently, a guy will come in and go right past Sarah and go to you. Oh, for sure. Yeah. You know, it's, it's that thing where we're men think that men know more about, about, especially something like whiskey as something that's seen to be more masculine, if you will. Yeah. You know, but, you know, Sarah Turbot, she knows whiskey. She knows her stuff. You know, she has worked for Angel's Envy. She is amazing. So I politely told him, Hey, I'm not the person you want to speak to. It is her. And we went back and forth a couple of times and I was just like, look, I'm going to defer you to her.

22:02Yeah. And I'm going to step away now because I'm not the person. I'm not the one. Yeah. I am not the bartender you're looking for. If you have an expert on the subject standing next to you, why would you not defer to that person? Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the reasons why I'm so excited to share this program, these six episodes with everybody is I want to talk about where we make space. How can we do this better? If you're a bartender, you know, you may not feel seen, but hopefully you'll feel seen in these moments where you see that there's other folks also dealing with the same garbage. And I know that there's moments where I wish someone had come behind me and I've had so many guys come to the bar and order a whiskey from me and either tell me about the whiskey that I'm a hundred percent a rep for and know the distiller. Like they will educate me on the thing that I'm like an expert in. And you have to like be very precious with their egos. You have to be very like, I want them to stay excited about the product. So I'm not going to squash their ego and be like, oh, is that true? It's a very fine line because we are in hospitality. And our job is to create an experience for the guests and to be empathetic to them, maybe even in ways that we don't necessarily want to. But, you know, at the end of the day, that is our goal in hospitality. And so we have to do what we can to provide them with the best experience while also honoring ourselves and the people around us. And so I think, you know, pushing that off, deferring to someone who has that knowledge, I can't create that experience if I don't have the knowledge. And so whether they know it or not, whether they appreciate it or not,

24:05we have to do what we can to give the possibility of the best experience. Yeah. Because I mean, it's not their job. It's not their job to know what we have available. I harp on that a lot with the bartenders. I mean, that's just a message. And with servers as well. It's, you know, we talk a lot about guests in a sense of how they often will make you feel less than. You know, the legacy of serving is born from slavery. Like, let's just be legit about this. For sure. The idea of tipping. I mean, it's not a bad job. It's born from a bad place. Yes. Yes. It's something that I think we have to talk about a little bit, right? So when we talk about serving that word server and where it comes from, it comes from the Latin for serus humillimus. My Latin is terrible, but it means your most humble servant. And originally, you know, that ties into being a guardian or shepherd. And it was kind of a flowery way of saying like, I'm at your service. It wasn't until between 700 and 400 BC in Italy that serus became kind of a pejorative term. A negative term. Yeah, for sure. But, you know, even today in central Europe, Germany, Austria, Hungary, that area, friends will still say serus to each other as a greeting or as a parting word. In love. In love for their friends.

26:00You know, they say serus to be like, you know, I love you and I'm humbly at your service. Yeah. It's precious. But even though it comes from that. And but. And but. It is definitely a thin line that we walk. Yeah. You know, we've been talking about this a little bit as far as, you know, building people up and, you know, everyone in the industry, but also women and people of color. Yeah. Making sure that they feel dignified and respected and empowered in their position. Those are the three words that you shared with me the other day. For sure. Dignified, respected, and empowered. Yes. That's powerful. Absolutely. And, you know, when you're in a service position, the reason why this is so important is, especially if you're talking about those marginalized groups, you're asking someone who is already marginalized to be at their most vulnerable. That being from the institution and from the guest, you're asking someone to be empathetic, to be humble in the face of anything that comes up.

27:24Possible discrimination. Possible. Yeah. And sometimes that doesn't happen. Sometimes the guest is wonderful, uplifting, like makes me know why I do the job I do. Absolutely. But there's a lot of times in the mix that you're asking someone to step out of their comfort zone. You know, one thing that we've talked about before and I would love to talk about is that, good Lord, how do we make ourselves more approachable to the person of color that doesn't feel invited into this environment? How do we make, you know, there's a lot of female bartenders. There is a small handful of craft female bartenders because mixology and the craft as a whole has not been super inviting to women and especially to women of color or to people of color. So, I mean, I'm always working on this. I just, and you said the three words that, you know, dignity, respect and empowerment. How do we do that? How do we do it on a daily basis? How do we make ourselves more approachable? Because, I mean, I'm not even getting the resumes from people of color.

28:30I'm not even getting people coming in to apply because we've not made ourselves approachable. Well, I think it's a multifaceted issue. First of all, we have to make it known that these positions are available. If people don't know that they exist, how can they apply for them? Beyond that, once, you know, that happens, we also have to educate, to give people the knowledge that they need to be confident in their ability to perform the job well. I think that's one of the most important things that we can do. Education is always the way. I love this thread of thought. Am I cutting you off? So, education to me is something that we highlight a lot at Oak Steakhouse and at Oku in Germantown and within Indigo Road as a whole. I see the restaurants that are most successful are the ones that dig into the education side. And it's empowerment.

29:31That's the empowerment part. It's like, let me give you the tools to get this job done. Let me let you know how valuable you are and how much worth you bring to the table by giving you every tool to talk to that one guest that's a jerk and wants to put you in your place and tell you about whiskey. My trick with a lot of guests who want to tell me what's up with whiskey, I find one factoid that I know that they don't know. Not to belittle them, but to earn their trust. And so, I'll say something about the char on the barrel or the level of char. That's a lot of whiskey drinkers. They know about the whiskey aging process, but that's that little factoid of different levels of char and the different effects of that. That's not something that just everybody digs into. Which is a really wonderful way to handle the situation because you're not being condescending. You're not patronizing them. You're finding that little thing that gains their trust and opens up the conversation. Yeah, you got to keep the door open because it's not just employees and potential hires. It's also guests. How do we make ourselves more approachable to guests who are scared to get into the highfalutin fancy wines and help them understand the value of their dollar? For sure. And working in a casual fine dining restaurant in Nashville, a burgeoning metropolis, when we started here five years ago, we had to take some measures to make the guests more comfortable. Whether it's how we word things, especially on the menus. I don't know about you, but if I see something on a menu and I'm like, not only do I not know what that is, but I can't even say that word. You're like,

31:36I'm probably not going to order that because I don't want to look stupid. Looking for those little ways to not dumb anything down, not placate, but those little things that we can address to make people feel more comfortable. That's our duty. That's what we have to do. We talk about this quite a lot. It is not the guest job to know all of this. It is our job to be as knowledgeable as possible, to learn as much as we can so that we can distill it into the simplest way possible and then run it back. My guest doesn't have to know about malactic fermentation. They don't have to know about Kimmerigen soil. But I can ask them, hey, do you like lemon or lime? Do you like blackberry or strawberry? And from that, with my knowledge of where those flavors come from and how they're produced, how those flavors are developed, what part of the world that's coming from, I can step them back into a bottle that I can say with an educated guest that they would be comfortable with. Absolutely. I think that's kind of what we're doing in the hospitality industry is trying to make it as approachable. It should be the goal anyway, to make it as comfortable and approachable for people as possible. I think opening that door is one of the first steps in allowing a guest to know their home. They're safe.

33:19You can mess this word up. You can not know what this wine is. But because I know you recognize this name brand or this label and whatever you like about that, that you found out about through advertising, however you came across that flavor profile and you developed a sense of nostalgia to, you don't have to know about all of these other lists of wines and spirits and cocktails that are perfect for you. I get to know all of that stuff. And because I know that you like this little hint of the note that exists within this brand, I can find you this little secret pocket of wines that is just right for you. And once you open that door for a guest, that guest will come to you for life. That guest is ready to sit at your bar. I've got guests that have been sitting at my bars for probably eight plus years because they developed a relationship with me. I let them feel seen in that moment. I let them feel known. I don't think there's a better honor than that. I get a little bit emotional sometimes thinking about it because, and I know I've told you this story, so I'm going to try to tell it again. I'll try not to get a little weepy because I'm going to need another drink before we get into that.

34:36Okay, my friend. You want to crack that open? That cocktail was delicious, but I think I'll take this Corona. Yeah, we're going to get into some Corona. I'm going to drink, actually, would you like some of this? It's not, it's not cold. Where is it? It's by New Heights. Oh, nice. I'm actually going to drink it out of my coupe. Because I'm fancy. If you want to try some, let me know. I do love that we're cracking open a beer in the middle of this wine and cocktail podcast because let's just be real. We're about it. For sure, yeah. This is the life. Look, I grew up in a family of sharecroppers. Real rural South Carolina stuff. I always go back. The end of the day, I'm probably going to have a high life and a shot of Jameson to be honest. Yes, facts. I'm going to drink. I like good wine. I like good cocktails, but if I want a good drink, I read the room. I look at the situation. Is it a hot day outside? Am I at a speakeasy or am I at a bar with my friends? I'm going to crack open a high life. That is my jam.

35:59Are you ready for this Cracker Barrel story? I'm here now. I'll try not to get weepy. I've told this story to you before. I don't mean to get that emotional, but it just strikes a chord with me. Every time I talk about this lady, I go right back into it as if I was there because it changed my life. It changed the way I work in this industry. There was this sweet old lady, very prim and proper, really cute style. I really liked her vibe. She's like the old lady that I aspire to be. Really clean, short white hair. Well put together. Well put together lady. She didn't look rich. She just looked stylish. It was a vibe. This is, I don't know, 10 plus years ago. Well, actually, probably 15 years ago. Good Lord, I'm so old. It was 18 years ago. I'm so old, dude. I'm so old. She's sitting in the corner of my table. I'm a little rising star at Cracker Barrel. For those of you who don't know, if you have a server that has a rising star on their apron, they are just getting started.

37:11They don't even have a single star. You can get up to four stars. If you get a maroon apron, which I absolutely did get my maroon apron with four stars, that means that you're a trainer as well. I was also a girl cook for Cracker Barrel. I'm not preaching that Cracker Barrel is great, by the way. They have an amazing training program. I will give them that. And a decent breakfast. And a decent breakfast. But they are kind of, I'm just going to say slightly evil. I'm just going to leave it at that. But anyway, I had this moment with this lady. She's sitting at this table by herself in the corner of the restaurant and I'm taking care of her. I'm just a little baby server. I'm not really good at my job yet. Just facts. But I'm trying to be good at my job. And my head was in the kitchen and I'm trying to figure out where I've got different orders are going to different people. So I'm not really present in the moment. But I'm telling that something's off with her. Immediately, my dude, I started feeling it get choked up again. Immediately. Because I just imagine her. But I can tell something's off. And she's sitting there and I'm like, maybe it's the food. Maybe I'm not giving good service. I'm still learning how to do my job.

38:25The normal things that you go through. The things, you know, a checklist of like, okay, she's got her drink. I've kept her drink refilled. I'm hitting the table at the appropriate times. For those of you that aren't in the industry, just know that we notice everything. We're passing by the table. We're looking at every facial expression. Everything. Because we want to know how to give you the best experience. And if you're not, it might be us and we're out. How do I fix it? Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm like, immediately like, okay, I'm messing up. I'm going to get in trouble. I'm going to lose my job. Whatever it is. I'm a little baby rising star. So everything's on the line. And I'm just like, can I get you anything, ma'am? Everything going great? Is the food delicious? You know, all of the proper verbiage. Not, how is it? Does it taste good? I'm using the proper verbiage of like, everything wonderful. Infusing and instilling the idea in the person's mind that, yes, it is wonderful. I'm doing my best. And I literally get to the point with her that I'm like, I cross boundaries.

39:29I'm like, I say, are you doing okay? Because I can tell something's bad. And so I cross over the line of like, not just everything wonderful to, are you all right? And she, I see, I'm telling you, it gets me emotional. No matter. I've told you this story before, but it does. It hits me every time. But she holds her hand out and she tells me that her husband has passed away and she came to be alone to eat. And so she just wanted to be by herself. She tried to get away from everybody. And I felt as soon as she choked up, my mind rushed to me from the kitchen. It was like, all of a sudden I could feel the shift of like my brain being in the kitchen and just like jutting into my body of like, nope, be here right now. Be present. And she's a good old lady from the South, an older woman. And I felt comfortable enough to ask her if she felt like she needed prayer. Not something I typically jump to. I know, I'm sorry. I was totally raised in the South. And we've talked about this before, like conservative background. I'm not conservative now, but you know, it's in there. But I just knew at this moment she needed comforting.

40:49And so I asked her if she wanted me to pray with her. And she said yes. And again, I don't know why these instincts were coming to me. And I don't think that was necessarily the right- 18 years of upbringing. Yeah. Good Lord. Please, you guys do not go to guests and ask if they need prayer right off the bat. Like, read the room. I mean, I'm grateful that I did read the room at least a little bit in this situation. But she said yes. She holds my hand and I feel my stomach kind of drop because at first I'm just like lightly holding her hand and just like, dear Lord. I'm like, I'm literally, how old was I? I think I was like 20, maybe younger. I could have been 19 at this point. I don't really know. And I'm like, Lord, help her. Thank you so much for the time that she's had with her husband. And she starts squeezing my hand tighter. And when she starts squeezing my hand, oh my gosh, my stomach drops. And I'm fully in the moment with her. And I start crying at this table in the middle of a Cracker Barrel.

41:51And I'm like, Lord, be with her. Thank you so much for her. Thank you for this time with her. And it's just an emotional moment. And at Cracker Barrel, we give you a napkin. Not more than that. Like you get a napkin. And so she's got this one paper napkin and she's like dabbing it around her eyes. It's falling apart. I'm not saying any of that was appropriate or the right way to go about this, but it gut checked me. It gave me an understanding early, early on in my career. We just have a moment with people. For sure. We just have a moment. And not only is that something that we pass on to our guests, but I've also been that person crying on the shoulder of my teammate, my coworker. And I've been the person hugging someone and comforting a teammate. I was a teacher for like six years. And I have a lot of a heart for others and for kids and people in need. I didn't realize in this industry, I would get to utilize so much of that empathy bone. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's really the large part of what we do, right? The knowledge of cocktails and wine and food and getting it on the table is only a small part of what we're doing here.

43:16And creating the guest experience, we talk about it, but that means that we're providing a moment for them. We're giving them a chance and trying to meet them where they are. If someone is solemn or grieving, we're trying to meet them there. If someone is joyous. Yeah. Celebrating. Yeah. We try to meet them there. Tell me now, because your take on champagne, speaking of celebrations, we drink champagne to celebrate in the States. Yeah. And there's something wrong about that. Yes, we should be celebrating, but we should be celebrating all the time. Yeah. You know, I'm not a religious person, but I do believe that every day is a gift. Yeah. And every day is what you make it. Yeah. And so for me, you should be drinking champagne because it's Tuesday at one o'clock in the afternoon. First of all, champagne is delicious. And a little pairing fact, if you don't know what pairs with what, champagne always works. Champagne all day. One of my favorite things in the world is rosé champagne and fried chicken. Yes. I learned that from Pascaleen up here, who was one of my professors, but absolutely amazing. She knows everything there is to know about chin and blanc. So the white grape from S'more, the weird we have the Cap Franck from, but she was like, you know what you need to do? You need to get a bottle of champagne, rosé champagne and some fried chicken. It will change your life. And yeah. So for me, I really do believe like, Hey, it goes with everything. Every day, every moment is something

45:18to be celebrated. Always drink champagne. Always drink champagne every day. I happen to know that that you love your bubbles. And so that's why that was the choice of our cocktail today. Thank you so much. Of course. Yeah. I think that there's this idea that we are supposed to save champagne for birthdays, save it for anniversaries. And yeah, we every day, just like the same as every wine you've talked about, we see wine as especially expensive wines. We save it for occasions. And a good drink with a good meal is one of the most precious everyday things that we can do. And we just don't take the time in America. That's just not part of our for sure. And this is something that we talk about quite often. You know, if I were to ask you what your favorite drink was, and to attach a price tag to it, I can guarantee you that it's probably pretty low. I've had bottles that are worth thousands of dollars. My favorite bottle of wine that I've had was a $40 bottle of wine that I bought from September wines in New York. And it was a bottle of 2011 Marcel LaPierre Morgan.

46:42And it changed the whole world for me. It changed how I viewed wine. It was really one of my aha moments in this industry. I think the beauty of an affordable wine is something so simplistic, but not a cheap wine. Yeah, a really nice, approachable wine with amazing craftsmanship. Exactly. Very well made. I am happy to help a guest understand the value of their dollar. And there's a lot of people, if you're in the industry, there's a lot of people who want to flex their muscle, who want to come in and spend that extra dollar for a really beautiful experience and outcome. I am going to cultivate that experience if that's what you're looking for. I'm going to tell you the value of the wine you're getting, your cocktail, your spirit. If you're going to pay $200 for a two ounce pour of whiskey, you better believe I'm going to set you up with the best tasting experience that I can provide. I got you.

47:48I got you. But if you're coming in and you just want a good drink, I'm not going to bring out the $200 an ounce whiskey. I'm going to show you a really cool $10 bourbon or rye or something. Maybe you were looking for a rye, but based off of my conversation with you, I realized that no one's ever opened the door to Reposado tequila for you. And that might be the best door to go through if you're having that adventure with me. You've heard me say this before, because I say it to both bartenders and servers a lot. But if you're having a guest who's having an issue, who's having a hard time taking those next steps, I'll ask a guest, are you feeling adventurous? It's such a helpful phrase. It really is. It's just like no one's not feeling adventurous. I mean, and if they're not, I do have the occasional, typically an older gentleman, he's like, nah, no, sweetie, I'm good.

48:49Yeah, I wield my power from time to time. And it's usually on the back end. And it will be like, I'll recommend a bottle and someone's not necessarily comfortable and they go with what they know, which is usually like big Cabernet. And let me tell you, if you're having a piece of fish, that's probably the last thing that you want. The tannin structure from the Cabernet, along with the fatty acid from the fish, is going to come off metallic. It's going to be like you're eating a gum wrapper. And so what I'll do is I'll grab a by the glass pour of something like a Pinot Blanc. If I think that I have enough people in the restaurant, then I'll grab a bottle and I'll open a pour for multiple people and try to give everybody the experience. But pour something like an Aberrino or a nice white burgundy to give somebody that experience. But I think it's funny how people kind of pigeon-holed themselves. And that's something that we have to do with this craft as well, is trying to break people out of their comfort zones and to get them to something that's going to better them. That they'll enjoy, that they'll love.

50:16Because again, it's not their job to know. They don't need to know. They don't need to know why this other spirit exists and its story. If you can be that person that opens the door for them, then you've made something that seemed totally inaccessible, totally unavailable to them. Now they're like, oh, this is for me too? That's such a cool moment. It's a gift. Not just for them being exposed to something they've never been exposed to, but it's a gift for us to take it back to the religious aspect of things. The show is called The Gospel of Cocktails. Yeah, for sure. I grew up fairly religious. But we're supposed to approach things with the servant's heart. And I think that is central to hospitality. One of the things that I... I mean, I totally agree with you. I totally agree that when I come to a guest with this experience, I'm 100% fine with, if you want a Jack and Coke, I'm going to serve you a Jack and Coke. But on that, maybe that second or third drink, I've earned your trust.

51:32And now I can give you an experience where you can let go of the reins as a guest and trust me as this guider. I'm now walking you into this path that you wouldn't have chosen for yourself. And now you can have this totally different experience that you can't get anywhere else. And that's precious. That's really, really a cool moment. But there's also this reality when you say a servant's heart, there's a reality that gets twisted. I do believe in that. But I believe also the servant's heart I have towards my teammates and protecting them. And one thing I think we can do better is creating that space that we talked about at the beginning. I'm so glad that we got back to this. Because we kind of diverged for a little bit the empowerment part of the dignity, respect and empowerment. That comes from us. Okay, so we're going to take a short break from this episode to hear a few words from our sponsors. And man, I am enjoying the heck out of this. I hope you are too. We have a few sponsors at Nashville Restaurant Radio. One of them is SuperSource and Jason Ellis over at SuperSource is amazing. And if we're talking about bartending and bartenders, one of the things that is very, very important feedback there is a really good dishwasher.

53:00And a dishwasher and chemicals that will leave your glassware clean. And it's so important that you don't leave the chemicals on there because you don't want to change the flavor of the drink that you're making. So Jason Ellis is your guy. He is the guy that will come in and put a brand new dish machine in your bar. And he will set it up to where you never have any issues. And if you do, he is one phone call away. He is the most amazing. It's funny because as Kayla was starting this interview, I said, any of these sponsors that you want to talk about? She's like, oh my gosh, I love Jason Ellis from SuperSource. That guy's amazing. He does everything for us. He's just, he's the man. And I said, cool. Well, next time you do a show where you can record a commercial for him, but I'm jumping in to do it today. The other sponsor we want to talk about today is the compost company. So if you have food waste, you've got food waste all throughout the restaurant and the compost company, what they do is they can supply you with green compostable bags.

54:02What you do is you put your food waste in these bags and then there's a special trash can that they bring that they come in empty every single week. And then they take your food waste to a compost in Kingston Springs. They have this big, huge farm. They take it there and then they turn that compost into organic soil that they then sell to Whole Foods, local farmers, as well as landscapers. We're doing it at the Green Hills Grill. All the staff loves it. They're so excited that they are now doing something to reduce greenhouse gases. So what you need to do is if you want your restaurant to have compost, I want to compost our stuff, you need to go tell your manager to call the compost company. You're going to call Jeffrey Ezell. His number is 615-866-8152. Or you can visit him at the compost company.com or you can follow them on Instagram at compost company. They're amazing, amazing local guys that are trying to help our mother earth. So if you want a great dish machine behind your bar, you're not happy with who you have, tell your manager or if you're a manager, give Jason Else a call. He can come in and just see your space, see what you're currently using. He can help identify if you're currently using a company that's not helping you out, what you can do to get it fixed. These guys are amazing. We also want to send out a big thank you to Gordon Food Service, who's our title sponsor at Nashville Restaurant Radio. And while we get into the rest of this interview, I want to send out a big thanks to Kayla Ellis and to Robert Chambers for doing this interview. This is so much fun. Thank you guys for listening.

55:43Let's jump back in with the gospel of cocktail. Okay, so talking about empowerment, how we create space for someone, how we create that opportunity for someone to feel seen, heard, acknowledged. And that's on us. We have to back people up. We have to acknowledge the reality of their situation and we have to approach it with empathy. We have to do what we can to make them feel empowered, to feel like their concerns matter, that they matter, that their position matters. Absolutely, because the place closes down without that. For sure. I mean, without the person in front. I think the idea, like you said, the idea of a servant's heart is a precious idea in theory, but if it's abused, it's no longer a servant's heart. It has to be reciprocal. It does have to be reciprocal. It absolutely does. So Brandon is our head bartender over at Oak and I straight up had a guest come in, had all these assumptions about the space and chairs and took a chair from a tall table behind him, pulled it up, and I was like, I'm so sorry, sir, we actually need those chairs to stay with their table. For sure.

57:19We talked about this the other day and I'll say it again. So we work in a restaurant that works primarily off of reservations. Yeah. If you take a chair from another table that has already been accounted for, then the guest that's coming in for the reservation no longer has a seat. Yeah, that's not how it works. That's not your seat, sir. That's not it. And so he takes this chair and I'm like, I'm so sorry, sir. I'm happy to get you a drink, though. What can I get for you? And I kind of like try to move the story along, help him out, deescalate. That's the magic word. And he just like doesn't make eye contact with me. He's acting pretty irritated. And I'm like, okay, well, his wife is sitting down, though. She has a chair next to him. And so I go to polishing glassware. You know, I've offered him what I can. He's not happy with me. So I'm going to remove myself from the situation. I've done what I can to make him feel more comfortable. But he's just eyeing me. He's just like staring me down. And Brandon is working directly in front of him. He's working well. So for everyone who's not in the industry, well means that you're typically making cocktails for the whole restaurant, every drink for every guest sitting in house. Anyone who's not on the bar top.

58:28Exactly. So and sometimes the people in front of you on the bar top, too. And so because he's standing directly in front of Brandon, Brandon's like, hey, I can help you. What would you like, sir? Can I get you a drink going? And the guest just turns over and stares down me, stares down at me and looks back at Brandon and says, you don't remember me? Brandon goes, I'm sorry, sir. I don't, but I'm happy to get you a drink. And he says again, you don't remember me? And I'm sorry, if it didn't work the first time that someone didn't remember you. You know how desperate that looks? It's not suddenly going to jog my memory. It's not a cute. It's not a cute vibe. Not a good look, my dude. This is not a good look, dude. And so he says it the second time and Brandon's like, no, sir, I'm so sorry. I would love to make you a drink, though, or get you some food going. And at this point, we're like, maybe he's intoxicated. He'd also been a little bit rude to some of the guests. He wasn't necessarily giving the look of someone intoxicated 100 percent, but he was definitely starting to show signs.

59:36And so at this point, he decides to do a full like, you're fired hand motion and everything from the apprentice, just like full. He goes, and if this needs to be bleeped out, we can bleep it out. But he goes, fuck you. You're done to Brandon. Like, yeah, it's it's incredible. It's just it's kind of hilarious. The audacity of the moment, just like what in your right mind? You're done. Who are you, dude? For sure. If we didn't remember who you are, don't tell. So I step over and like an empire from like a baseball game, I throw my arm or an umpire. Oh, my gosh. I probably said that the other day, too. I think I said empire. You guys, I don't watch sports. The most I know is kind of basketball. We'll give you a pass on this. Oh, Lord. Like an umpire. I take one big step and I gesture my arm over and I go, get out. Just you're done. I'm not yelling or anything. I'm just you're done, sir. Get out. And he knows that he's messed up. He already knows he's in the wrong for how he's behaving. And so he just he doesn't say a word. He just kind of puts his tail between his legs, puts his head down and walks out with his wife. And they're embarrassed and they should be. This is ridiculous behavior for an adult. It's unacceptable.

01:00:53Unacceptable is the word. And honestly, if I hadn't have been there, Brandon, being a professional, he probably eventually would have gotten to the point of like being like, and honestly, as soon as he said FU, Brandon might have been like, Hey, sir, you can't talk like that. You need to go. But he probably would have turned the other cheek and he might have and just let it go. And I've done that for myself before. One of the things that I know that you feel the same on is that I am quick to step in and protect someone else. I am not so great at speaking up for myself. Yeah, that's a problem. Yeah. You're a turn the cheek person. I definitely am. Yeah. And I've definitely been in those situations that, you know, you're presented with a guest who is a little unruly or unsavory. What's some of those situations that you've seen? Because I am a turn the cheek kind of person, I can't really say when it comes to myself that I had an experience not long ago where I opened a bottle of wine for a table and I finished up and left and the server came back to the table and the guest said, you know, your wine list is much better than in the past. And who's running your wine list now?

01:02:17And he said, actually, it's the guy that just left the table, the guy that opened that bottle of wine for you. He's our sommelier and our wine buyer. And he brought on the selection that you got this evening. And the guest just looked at him and said, what? You mean that black kid? You know, and there is a perception, right, that if you're black or brown or you're female, you might not necessarily have the knowledge that would allow you to curate a nice wine list or spirits. It's supposed that you are not capable. They have this idea about you and they're like, oh, look at this person perform. Look how good they're doing. I'm so surprised that they're knowing so much. You're finding those perceptions a lot. And, you know, it comes from a couple of places.

01:03:21Ignorance one, you know, it's a lot of times the perception is that historically, you know, by and large, brown or black people or women were not in these positions to do this stuff. But, you know, the national wine director for our company is also a woman. A woman. And she's one of the most knowledgeable people about wine that I know. And in South Carolina is arguably the most respected wine buyer in the state. And so, you know, her coupled with me curating this list, I just, I kind of find it funny. A little sad, but I also kind of find it funny that, you know, this guy was, you know, stuck to this notion that. It's heartbreaking. I mean, it's humorous in the ridiculousness of it. Like, I can laugh at this human for their small-mindedness, but it's heartbreaking in the sense that he's not an anomaly. It's not rare for people to think that this is an okay way to think or to speak. It's so heartbreaking that there are moments where we have to defend ourselves, not just because we're in the industry of service, and in a position of being vulnerable, and our jobs are seen as not real.

01:04:53You know, if you're a bartender or a server, when are you going to get a real job? For sure. That's all garbage. And the whole time not knowing that, especially when you get to the level that we're doing this. It does more than just pay the bills. Yeah. You know, this is a real career. And folks who are really good at this, folks who take the time to study and hone their craft, are making a fairly decent living. We're doing all right. I mean, I think that we work hard for every dollar that we've got, and we are earning it. Absolutely. It is not coming undeserved, but I definitely make hand over fist more money than I ever made as a teacher. Well, and I think the problem is much larger than that. It's a cultural shift. We encourage people to go to college, and that's wonderful. Higher education is an amazing thing. Big thumbs up to higher education.

01:05:53Absolutely. But in this, we have also started to look down on the tradesmen or the craftsmen, and we value their work less, which I think is a really, really terrible way to look at things. These people are providing a service that is necessary to the way that we live. Not only necessary, but it's joyous as well. Absolutely. It's not just something that you need if you want society functioning the way it functions, but also provides joy. One of my favorite speakers and people in the industry is a man named Paul Pecolt. He is so sweet. He wrote the book on whiskey, on scotch specifically, and he's written other books. I think he has a new one out called, oh shoot, I think it's called Kindred Spirits, I want to say. I might be making that up. He just put it out, and it is absolutely beautiful, amazing book. When he started talking to a group of us about, yeah, it's called Kindred Spirits.

01:07:17When he started talking to a group of us about what it means to be in this industry, he uses the terminology, we are givers of joy. I know that that can be taken as cheesy if you want it to be. There's some pieces of it that are cliche, but we are givers of joy. He has this whole example in ancient cultures, in ancient society, you can see where the hospitals are set up, you can see where the police stations are set up, and you can see where the bars are set up. It's amazing. He basically breaks it down like these are givers of health and wellness, these are givers of law and order, and you are a giver of joy. These are the top three positions that you can get in ancient society. Somewhere along the way, we started seeing this act of servitude as less than, rather than honoring it for what it really is, as someone who is attentive, someone who is very attention detail oriented, someone who is very, very capable at multitasking.

01:08:29I mean, when you see a bartender or a chef or people working in the kitchen, they are literally dancing around each other. 100%. I don't watch many sports. I do enjoy some basketball. I used to play basketball, but when I watch bartenders in action in the middle of peak period, it's like watching a dance or watching the most intricate athleticism on display. I mean, it's beautiful. It's so, so cool. It is. I always tell people that aren't in the industry, if you watch a busy restaurant and it's performing well, everybody is, it's functioning on all cylinders, it looks like a ballet. I go to New York during Christmas to see the Nutcracker at Lincoln Center. It's one of my guilty pleasures. Hell yeah. But it's just as beautiful to me to see the way that a restaurant functions as it is to see the Nutcracker. I just feel like whenever I've talked with bartenders, and I've done this in classes before, I'll have people raise their hand if the industry was their first choice for a career. And I'll ask if it was their second choice for a career. Nobody raises their hand. Nine times out of 10, that is.

01:09:57Nobody raises their hand. It's not because this isn't a career, it's because our culture has taught us that this is less than. It's what we've been told. Yeah. The biggest lie is the term unskilled labor. That's just a joke. Yes. How true. Unskilled labor. What is that? That doesn't even make sense. The idea of the two words unskilled and labor going together is not logical. There's no such thing as labor without skill. I really hope that that brick mason is really damn good at what he does or your house is going to fall down. I really hope that those people in the fields that are growing and picking your fruit, not just grapes as it pertains to wine, but tomatoes, avocados, all of that. All of the things that go on our plates. I really hope that they're good at what they do or else we're not going to have anything to eat. Yeah. I mean, there is no such thing as unskilled labor. It's a total farce.

01:11:00I really think that when we get into the depths of what it means to be a bartender, I've told you this before, but any bartender on Broadway right now, I could train them to do what I do. I could train them to become a mixologist if that's something that they wanted. There is nothing wrong with slinging drinks. In fact, there is everything right about someone who slings drinks. It is awesome and honorable, especially if you do it well, especially if you have a community around you, especially if you uplift others when you're doing it. There is a way to do that honorably. There's also a way to bartend without honor too. I'll be honest. There's a way to do that without honor, but if you're slinging drinks and you're making money, then you're a bartender. You're legit. I can't teach every mixologist I know to do what bartenders are doing on Broadway. Not at all. The crossover just really isn't there the other way.

01:12:05Having worked bartending jobs, I can tell you that working behind a craft bar was easier in a way than working a rooftop bar where you have 300 people staring at you. You've got to get drinks out. That pressure is quite a lot. It never ends. It never ends. Literally, you could be standing there and you've worded this as you see this endless sea of people and you know that it doesn't stop. Your shift may come to an end, but you know that this doesn't stop. Someone else just clocks in. It's unimaginable to be at work and know that it's not going to end. There's not going to be a chance to take a breath or have a break.

01:13:07If you do, you got real lucky. Yeah. It could be a five-hour shift, an eight-hour shift, a 12-hour shift. You're just not going to stop. You're going to be on your feet the whole time. And the hustle and awareness, this is the part that I think people are aware of the physical tax of working behind a bar. I don't think people are as aware of the emotional and mental tax of constantly knowing when to prioritize the next task in front of you. When am I only making cocktails? When am I needing to stop and focus on dishes? When do I need to stop that and focus on the guest in front of me? And how do I maintain a conversation about the weather or about the next place to see in Nashville while I'm making six cocktails and taking an order for another three and hearing the ticket printer still going off behind me? And all the while, still creating that great experience for everyone in the room. Exactly. And not letting them see you sweat. Don't sweat in front of, yeah. I mean, they may actually see the droplets. I've definitely been a, I'm a sweater, but they're going to see a smile plastered on my face and they're going to know that they are the center of my universe in this moment. They're the center of this moment that we're, Brandon calls it the head bartender over at Oak. He calls it, what is it? A non-player character? Yeah. Is that what they're called? Okay. So again, don't know sports that great. Don't know video games that great. But I know a little bit about like being a non-player character is like, I'm, I'm just, you're the, you're the main character in your story. You're going to go on and have your adventure. I'm here to provide you jewels or, or tips about where you're going to next. And you're going to, going to collect your weapon

01:15:08from me or whatever it is. And I'm going to provide that space where it's like, you just love the overall game of life because you had that moment with your non-player character. I feel like that's a silly thing, but it's a fairly accurate analogy of if you can do that well, then you're a bad-ass bartender. Absolutely. What is something, I mean, we can probably start to wrap up. So, so you and I can have a good shift today. Okay. What is something that bartenders should know from a sommelier about what we could be doing better? And if you can, I know it's a big, big ask, but what, as a person of color, can the industry be doing better? Wow. That's a lot. A big question. It's a big question. I think I'll tackle the latter first. First of all, the things that benefit people of color or women or anybody in a marginalized group in this industry, I wholeheartedly believe benefits everyone. And I hate to sound like a broken record, but I really do have to take it back to those three things. Dignity, respect, and empowerment. If we want to make this industry more approachable, if we want to have a better outcome from guest experience or experience of our staff, we have to treat them with dignity. We have to let them know that their position, that their function is a dignified place. We have to treat them with the utmost respect. And we have to empower them.

01:17:08We have to have their backs to make them feel seen and heard. If we're going to attract more people to this industry, of all walks of life, of all ethnicities and nationalities, we have to stand behind them. Amen. And to tackle the former. As far as bartenders go and what we can be doing better. The only thing that I can say, the only way that I can really tackle that is to say that we have to be educated in our field. We have to focus on education and learning more and being more knowledgeable about the products. Beer might be your thing, liquor might be your thing, sake might be your thing, wine might be your thing, but you have to branch out.

01:18:09It's the more knowledge that you have, the better that you can help the guest. And really that is what it's all about. We are in the hospitality industry. We have no job without the guest. And so our focus really has to be around how can we provide a better experience. And something that we can do ourselves, we don't have a lot of control over other things, over other people, over the way that the business functions. But as a person working in that establishment, you can focus on yourself. That is the one thing that you can control. And the biggest thing that you can do is just to be as knowledgeable as you can about your craft. And through that, in our company we call it the 51%, the things that you can't teach someone, their character, their integrity. Through those things, through our personalities, we can interact with guests and provide them with the experience. And coupled with that knowledge, we can really create something special. Beautiful. So well said. Oh my goodness. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do this with me. I'm so glad to be here. Thank you so much. This has been incredible. And thank you for the drink. Yeah. Here, clink. Cheers. We're so lucky to be in the industry that we're in.

01:19:44I really hope that everyone today listening, if you've got a shift coming up, I hope you make lots of money. And thank you for hanging out with us. And I really hope, Robert, if you have a time in the future, maybe we can have you come back. I'd be glad to. I love you so much, my friend. Love you too. Cheers to you. Cheers.